Goin out to all comrades.

[Red_Rich]

Hi, im Rich a marxist from England and recently joined the site. What i found was alot different to what i had expected or hoped.

I joined the site expecting a united left, debating,comprimising and formulating left wing ideas.

As you may agree, i believe the extreme left is in decline and especially in England there is a growth of Nationalism and the more extreme right parties.

The only way for us to achiveve what we want, our solcialist utopeas, or a better life for the workers, we have to stand united and strong with clear objectives. This forum is an example of why we are losing.

Maybe im wrong... i hope one of you proves me wrong.

[NovelGentry]

Yes, you are wrong. There will always be disagreements, *GASP* even in communist society, this is why we have the idea of democracy. I agree, what we need is solidarity, but above and beyond that we need to make sure we're not following some cult for the sake of making sure we're all in line together. The left needs goals, and individuals and parties with very different ideas on how to reach those goals can and should exist so that we do ensure the BEST way to achieve them is found as fast as it can be. This is something the GCP (Global Communist Partnership) attempts to achieve. Search for GCP within the Practice forum, there's information there about it including a link to our forum, or contact FireFox if you're somewhat interested. This is not a sales pitch to join, it is very simply me saying that there are movements which aim to do this, and the GCP was formed out of this very message board, so it would seem you have us (or at least a few of us) pinned wrong.

[Red_Rich]

true, idealy there should be a diverse range of ideas and parties and individuals with different aims in creating what we want.

However, with so few of us, splitting up will get us no where which it has pretty much done.

If every member of the left, joined in one party for each country. Then we might be able to get somewhere.

[NovelGentry]

If selling out ideas for the sake of a party line which may very well be the WRONG line to follow is getting somewhere, I don't want to get there.

[Red_Rich]

divide and rule is the capitalists best trick.. and it has obviously worked even amoung us. We are very much divided, and very muched ruled.

Its all im pointing out here comrade.

[NovelGentry]

divide and rule is the capitalists best trick.. and it has obviously worked even amoung us. We are very much divided, and very muched ruled.

Its all im pointing out here comrade.

And all I'm pointing out is that isn't going to be fixed by unsustainable paradigms from 50 to 100 years ago in places that didn't even look the same as most other places then, let alone now.

Just hopping on and following the party line is the LAST thing we should be thinking about. Solidarity is not about everyone thinking the same exact things. If you think my disagreements with other leftists on the intricacies of revolution and socialism have anything to do with the capitalists, it doesn't.

There's no reason why any real leftist needs to "stop the debate for solidarity sake." What we need to end is foolish dogmatism and the attitude of "I'm not gonna work with you cause you're Leninist." or "I'm not gonna work with you cause you're anarchist." Once again, this is something that movements like the GCP looks to remedy, and that is what is needed for solidarity, but if you think out of that anyone's view of the right way to do something is going to change.... or has to change, then you need to go back to the drawing board.

[Red_Rich]

yes, it has alot to do with capitalists, if we cannot unite, then we cannot win and therefore they cannot lose

Im not talking blind obedience to the party, If the party is run democratically and properly, the most popular ideas and methods will provale and a much higher rate of success for the left.

I would happily work with any left wing man or woman who wishes for a socialist utopean. Id expect the same from any true comrade of the left.

[Red_Rich]

what you say is all valid, but at the end of the day, if u find yourself with only a few people with the same opinion as you. Can you really change any thing?? the answer is no. Left politics is about the workers uniting under one common cause.

so you see, we HAVE to unite!! If that means we might have to put aside our differences, then i think it is a sacrifice we are all willing to make for socialism. surly?

[NovelGentry]

No, but no leftist should find that. We all have the very same opinion... capitalism should be overthrown.


I would happily work with any left wing man or woman who wishes for a socialist utopean. Id expect the same from any true comrade of the left.

But you don't need to work for any single man or woman, and you don't need to join a party, and you don't need to be in a union to show solidarity. All you have to do is be willing to stand up for socialist beliefs and burn down the capitalist ones along with their institutions. This is my point. We don't need a party to know we want capitalism gone and socialism in. Nor do any of us need to fall in line with this attitude, we already have it.


Can you really change any thing?

This all depends on what you want me or us to change. Can I wage class struggle and win with myself and two friends, no... can I spread educational material and education others and help to raise class consciousness, yes.


Left politics is about the workers uniting under one common cause.

Indeed, but one common cause does not have to mean one common party, or one common union, or one common anyhting EXCEPT cause. We already have this for the most part amongst those who are truly left.


If that means we might have to put aside our differences, then i think it is a sacrifice we are all willing to make for socialism. surly?

Yes, if the differences don't matter. But if the difference is between a working socialist society progressing towards communism and a authoritarian and bureuacratic society that's going to collapse back into capitalism, or possibly something worse, no.