Anti-Flag

[FriedFrog]

Well? Yes or No?

What about your opinions on their music, even if you think they are not the real deal or not..

I, personnaly, like them, although I only have one album: A New Kind Of Army.

[Pawn Power]

I used to like them, but I grew out of them. I saw them live and it was pretty good.

[Urban Rubble]

Define your terms, what is a "sellout" ? Personally, I dislike Anti Flag for alot of reasons, the record label they're on and the amount of money they make have nothing to do with it.

[FriedFrog]

Define your terms, what is a "sellout" ?

They claim to be left wing punk. Their music is, but like you said, the amount of money they get and their record label goes against the whole message they are putting forward in their songs.

So my 'definition' would be that their actions go against their words.

[dreams are free mofo]

my problem with them is more their lack of ideas musically and their lyrical blandness more than anything else. I remember I didn't think much of them until I heard 911 For Peace, after that I loathed them.

[Ian]

Their politics are very basic, and their songs are often quite lame.

[Urban Rubble]

They claim to be left wing punk. Their music is, but like you said, the amount of money they get and their record label goes against the whole message they are putting forward in their songs.

How does that make sense ? Since when does how much money you make have anyhting to do with being a leftist ?

If I get a raise, at what point do I tell my boss to stop givnig me money in order to remain a leftist ?

It's how you make the money and what you do with it that counts. They didn't make it by exploiting other people's labor, and as far as I know they don't live in manisons or drive hummers (like Zach from Rage). They may have violated "punk rock" ethics, but in making money for playing in a band they have done nothing that contradicts their beliefs.

I just think their music kind of sucks and they're kind of cheesy.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

We all sell-out to some degree - if you are selling yr labour power, then you have "sold-out". The question is, in any given situation, whether or not it is tactically beneficial.
I would argue that Anti-Flag, not looking at them with some weird conception of 'artists' or 'musicians' (Seriously, fuck that), but considering them as revolutionists, are doing a piss-poor job. They have essentially begun preaching "Safe" reformist positions, in order to make their ideas more palatable to a larger audience . . . but in the end, they've just turned themself into another meaningless spectacle of rebelion within the "Democrat" propaganda-matrix.
Sell-outs? Who cares?
Shitty anarchists? Yes.

[Urban Rubble]

O.K, well I can agree with that.

[FriedFrog]

All right, then. Point taken. And I will still continue to like some of their stuff, even if it IS cheesy and they arent proper punks...

[S.J.]

There not sellout if you like that pop punk drivel in the first place. You should really check out some real pollitical music (Crucifix, Dropdead, Disrupt, Crossed Out, Napalm Death, Siege, Crass) Some of these band might be a little to harsh for you if youre really into that whiny pop crap.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Oh, they're perfectly proper punks . . . that is, indeed, part of the problem, in my mind.

The entire "punk" aesthetic/ideology/etc. is stale, and no longer threatening. Anti-Flag are simply part of a larger trend of reclaimation of revolutionary strands/ideas into dominant frameworks.

Ick.


(And for the 'record' I've got at least one Anti-Flag album floating around my room . . . Don't tell anyone.)

[refuse_resist]

Heh, I guess. The band sucks either way.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by Virgin Molotov [email protected] 14 2005, 04:59 AM
We all sell-out to some degree - if you are selling yr labour power, then you have "sold-out". The question is, in any given situation, whether or not it is tactically beneficial.
I would argue that Anti-Flag, not looking at them with some weird conception of 'artists' or 'musicians' (Seriously, fuck that), but considering them as revolutionists, are doing a piss-poor job. They have essentially begun preaching "Safe" reformist positions, in order to make their ideas more palatable to a larger audience . . . but in the end, they've just turned themself into another meaningless spectacle of rebelion within the "Democrat" propaganda-matrix.
Sell-outs? Who cares?
Shitty anarchists? Yes.
Fuck you are good man.

You should write a thesis on the fashion-core phenomena?

[S.J.]

pop punk bastards listen to more doom!

[anarchocommie]

I have all Anti Flags albums...some are good, a few suck, some are just ok. Their political message seems a little rudimentary...too much anti Bush and not enough anti capitalism, or anti coercive authority. Still..i know some people have maybe had their leftist political curiosities whetted by Af..and hopefully they then went to something deeper and more profound. I doubt anyone outside the most novice of activist would leard too much..but they serve a purpose I suppose.

[S.J.]

good point. hey all check out bands on 625thrashcore, soundpollution, havoc, and blackend distro. all indie labels with good pollitical bandsall of these should be the site names but im not sure.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 03:21 AM
I have all Anti Flags albums...some are good, a few suck, some are just ok. Their political message seems a little rudimentary...too much anti Bush and not enough anti capitalism, or anti coercive authority. Still..i know some people have maybe had their leftist political curiosities whetted by Af..and hopefully they then went to something deeper and more profound. I doubt anyone outside the most novice of activist would leard too much..but they serve a purpose I suppose.
Exactly if they can serve as some kind of springboard from sum 41 or some other useless pop punk band into political awareness and action and good music then fine. But if that is as far as it goes...

[Invader Zim]

I can deal with political bands on Major record labels, though I don't like it.

RATM were on Sony as were the Manics. Radiohead are on some label which is part of EMI.

Its a bit of a pain in the ass, but when you think about it all labels are trying to make money, they just aren't as good at it as a major label.

Though the major labels are just out to screw the fans.

[kidicarus20]

A lot of punk bands weren't "anarchists" in the first place; especially American hardcore bands who really opened the door for political punk to come into existence. They talked about serious issues (drugs, the capitalist system, social issues, emotaional problems, and esp. anti-war lyrics.) but rarely about direct targets. Anti-Flag is all right in the sense that they are trying to talk about serious issues - for instance, they went from "fuck the government" and "government lies" (songs even below punk standards) to more serious issules like the concept of war and corporate slavery.

Anti-flag is obviously not the problem. The problem with punk now-a-days is that too many punk bands don't bring up issues at all, except related to dates and parties and stuff; or, its extremely dumbed down to the point where "government = bad, punk = good," this leaves no room for improvement. This has allowed punk to not be very well defined as a form of music and even allows conservatives and stuff to start calling themselves punk. Keep in mind the problems with skinheads and racists in the early days was that punk didn't really define itself except it was against certain aspects of society; only after a clear political division was established were the two (punk and skinheads for instance) clearly separated.

[Pingu]

i think they were live quite good, and 911 for peace is a very nice song :)

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Wow... a lot of hate... a LOT of hate on Anti-Flag.

I love Anti-Flag, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Are they playing the same guitar-bass-and-drum instrumental song over and over again? Yeah. Pretty much.

Are their lyrics the most amazingly original words I have ever heard put to music? No. They are not.

That does not matter.

All I know is that Anti-Flag is the most relentlessly political punk band I have ever heard. It seems like politics is about the only thing they sing about, and that resonates with me.

I love Pennywise and NOFX is good most of the time, too. Anti-Flag is more focused than Pennywise, and Justin Sane (Anti-Flag) has more to say on politics than Fat Mike (NOFX) does.

Yeah, many of their lyrics are simple enough that they could be chants at a protest. Hell, that is where Justin Sane probably got some of them. But is that not also why John Lennon's "Imagine" continues to be so popular? Anti-Flag's songs are easy to learn, easy to remember, and powerful to sing along with.

If I want really deep thinking lyrics, I will go to Bad Religion. That is their strength. If I want hard-driving political anthems, I will go to Anti-Flag.

[mentalbunny]

Good point. I have one Anti-Flag lp (underground network) which I enjoy listening to when the mood takes me. It's perky and hopeful and motivational. However there are better bands.

Also, I didn't realise Napalm Death were political, how so?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

All I know is that Anti-Flag is the most relentlessly political punk band I have ever heard.

Listen to CRASS. They are so political, that what they're doing hardly even constitutes music.

[PRC-UTE]

Listen to CRASS. They are so political, that what they're doing hardly even constitutes music.

Good description, brother brother brother

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 07:41 AM

Listen to CRASS. They are so political, that what they're doing hardly even constitutes music.

Good description, brother brother brother
:lol: Hahaha . . .

Maybe it's because it's 20 after four in the morning, but I nearly fell off of my bed laughing at that. I generally make a point of not making stupid "LOLZ"-esque posts, but I couldn't help myself this time.

I will seriously marry anybody else who gets that reference and laughs at it.

[PRC-UTE]

thanks. . . would've been so muc better if it the last 'brother' had actually been small.


I will seriously marry anybody else who gets that reference and laughs at it.

No need to threaten anyone.

[Famepollution]

Listen to CRASS. They are so political, that what they're doing hardly even constitutes music.

Bah! Crass is quite musical. compare them to the likes of the godz and Teenage Jesus and the jerks and then tell Me their records arent Music!




I love Pennywise and NOFX is good most of the time, too. Anti-Flag is more focused than Pennywise, and Justin Sane (Anti-Flag) has more to say on politics than Fat Mike (NOFX) does.


bah all those bands are just One step above that Modern day bubble gummy bullshit they play on Mtv. if one wants a pop hook in their punk rock they should look else where specifically husker du and the descendents.

As for anti flag. I heard one of their songs(die for the government) and it instantly made me grab my black flag record and wipe my ears clean of Justin sanes whine. There lyrics are comparible to Reading a rush limbaugh book. its stupid and irritating and yet you cant help but laugh at the asshole(s).

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by NoMan,[email protected] 12 2005, 10:57 PM

Define your terms, what is a "sellout" ?

They claim to be left wing punk. Their music is, but like you said, the amount of money they get and their record label goes against the whole message they are putting forward in their songs.

So my 'definition' would be that their actions go against their words.
What has their record label to do with anything? Fat Wreck is a commercial label, but still an independent label, and far away from the conditions that there are at major labels. What is the alternative? Self-produce your stuff and rot as a locally known band for ever? I don't think it's what a great band like AF deserves.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 02:49 AM

What has their record label to do with anything? Fat Wreck is a commercial label, but still an independent label, and far away from the conditions that there are at major labels. What is the alternative? Self-produce your stuff and rot as a locally known band for ever? I don't think it's what a great band like AF deserves.
:lol:

. . . 'great band.'

You've got a great sense of humour!

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by OglachMcGlinchey+Jan 23 2005, 08:10 AM--> (OglachMcGlinchey @ Jan 23 2005, 08:10 AM)
[email protected] 23 2005, 02:49 AM

What has their record label to do with anything? Fat Wreck is a commercial label, but still an independent label, and far away from the conditions that there are at major labels. What is the alternative? Self-produce your stuff and rot as a locally known band for ever? I don't think it's what a great band like AF deserves.
:lol:

. . . 'great band.'

You've got a great sense of humour! [/b]
C'mon, they ARE great, both musically and lyrically. But it's stupid to discuss about musical taste, so I won't go into that.

[bolshevik butcher]

Bands can't become big without sigining up to a big firm, so I think that bands like ratm and anti-flag do more for us by signing up with the big firms.

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 23 2005, 05:28 PM
Bands can't become big without sigining up to a big firm, so I think that bands like ratm and anti-flag do more for us by signing up with the big firms.
Again, I don't think that Sony (RATM) and Fat Wreck Chords (Anti-Flag, Propagandhi and many others) are remotely compareable!

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 08:39 PM
Good point. I have one Anti-Flag lp (underground network) which I enjoy listening to when the mood takes me. It's perky and hopeful and motivational. However there are better bands.

Also, I didn't realise Napalm Death were political, how so?
Most of Napalm Death's stuff is actually pretty political. They've done a cover of the Dead Kennedy's song "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" too.

As far as grindcore goes, I think they're one of the best out there.

Here's lyrics to one of their songs off the album Harmony Corruption...

Suffer The Children

[Lyrics Greenway - Music Harris, Mick]

Your unflappable conceptions
Moralistic views
Never open to criticism
Your overpowering ruse

Promises of sanctuary
In eternal bliss
With starry eyes and cash in hand
Pledge all to the master plan

Just face the truth or fund the farce

At one with your god
your sole intent
Your treasured place assured
For a substantial rent

Global lunacy
Death threats for supposed blasphemy
No room for free thought
All non believers pushed to the floor

Aggressive tyrants
Supposed saints for the cause
Judgement through force
Faith a fuel for pointless wars

When all is done
Who shall benefit? Who is the one?
Not those who pass on
But those dictators divine waving their deceitful wands.

Napalm Death > Anti-Flag ^_^

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Unlike most of the people here anti-flag members grew up....
then they realized they cant win on some ideology that no one could possibly achieve and they are not shitty anarchists they dont claim to be anarchists they do consider themselves to be socialists. then they grew up and fought the system from within.

lesson learned a true revolutionary does not start a true revolution by proclaiming a radical ideology that will push the masses away from the cause. it is won by building a movement with the suport of the working class. if that means compromise then so be it.

-petey the punk

[Urban Rubble]

You lecture people on "growing up" yet you sign off as "Petey the Punk" ?


then they realized they cant win on some ideology that no one could possibly achieve and they are not shitty anarchists they dont claim to be anarchists they do consider themselves to be socialists.

You misinformed bastard.

Yes, Anti Flag DOES consider themselves anarchists. Look at the fucking name of the band for Christ sakes ! ANTI FLAG. As in, anti state, anti borders. They've made it very, VERY clear over the years that they are Anarchists. Get a clue before you make a statement.

Your post was totally pointless.

[anarchocommie]

Then again it doesnt really make sense calling someone a bastard because they may have misidentified a bands political leanings. Besides, with all the pro Kerry garbage they spewed along with most of the other Punkvoters I think its pretty reasonable to wonder if they really are as far Left as they were when they started and named the band. Im not knocking them for it, as ive said I have all their albums, but I do question some of the things they say. For example, like most on the Left they use anti globalisation as a euphenism for anti capitalist, and they support an Anybody But Bush fiasco. I still like them, and find worth in their music, their lyrics,and the hope that some more traditional punk kids will use them as a segue to a more profound look at the Left.

[Comrade BNS]

Who cares if they are 'sellouts' or not. If you like them good; if not, who cares?

like what is this some kind of "I'm insecure in my tastes, I need other people to affirm my beliefs for me" kind of post?

Just like or dislike them and stop having parochial arguments over which bands are 'hardcore' (ie. Would be 'sellouts' without the break to be big) or 'sellouts' (ie. Bands who happen to make it and others subsequently resent).

Comrade BNS

[Ian]

Do you go to those bogan BNS things Comrade BNS?