Modernization?

[Citzen Smith]

Before someone declares me a heretic that should be burned im not advocating the changing of the ideaology behind the perfect communist state. Im just suggesting that the way we reach it is all based on the works of men who were writing a hundred years ago. Whilst we have had various other doctrines introduced, have we had in any in the last 20 - 10 years? Not to my knowlege. The last great (postive in my opinion) influence on communist thought was Che, and he was 30 + years ago. The one before him was Mao, and his veiws were in my opinion not true communism. The other revolutionaries of modern times have been Pal Pot and his ilk, a distinctly negative influence on communism. Surely its time we looked at the works of the great Marx and Engels again? The Manefesto seriously needs revising in my opinion. After all, Das Kapital, The Manefesto, the Principles of Communism, were all written before computers. In fact so was almost every great book on communism. IS IT TIME FOR THE MODERN COMMUNISTS OF THE 21st century to re-write the old theories? In particular the Manefesto? your opinoins please, after all im just a kid, i hav no idea whether there is some great influence in the world of communism today that ive totally missed.

[Citzen Smith]

In particular the division of classes, i think in our modern world marxs division of classes, whilst right on an overwhelming level, such as the bourgeoise and prolteriat, needs to be adressed. Globalization and the creation of a class so wealthy and powerful (the ultra elite of the US, such as the Kennedys and the Bushs) that they influence world history are things that shuld not be ignored. The concentratoin of the desprately poor in the African Continent also changes the way in which a revolution would occur. A revoultion starting in England, France and Germany as predicted my Marx is now a near impossibilty.

[S.J.]

I believe that Marxist theory should be taught. Being from the capitalist shithole known as the u.s. the only idea that kids have of communism/ marism is that it is a evil entity that Ronald Regan killed with his own two hands! Their told that every evil in the world has been perpetrated by communists, somehow they forget all of their atrocities. Its all about fearing that in ideas and people you do not understand.

[NovelGentry]

Globalization and the creation of a class so wealthy and powerful (the ultra elite of the US, such as the Kennedys and the Bushs) that they influence world history are things that shuld not be ignored.

Nor are they. Marx's work is about class struggle, not the middle classes struggle against the Bush and Kennedy families. The fact remains that such powerful people are bourgeoisie, and in a global arena overwhelmed by capitalism, they are indeed the ruling class.

Why shouldn't be ignored, but apparently is by people such as yourself, if that the working class must also be unified in it's struggle and that we must consider people of all living conditions who's labor is subjugated for the necessity to survive as part of that working class. Your separation of working class with the worst conditions from the working class with the best conditions does nothing to help the alienation between the two.

We cannot change the nature of capitalism, nor can we change which markets it advances the fastest, those early to will probably see the early gains of it, those late to it will see later gains. The fact is, we've yet to see a consumer market really introduced in these poor places, but EVENTUALLY capitalists will enter the third world as a consumer market as they constantly seek to increase their customer base, when that happens the living conditions of the third world will increase in light that the capitalists will either have to decrease prices to make the commodities available there, or increase wages to allow people to afford them at standing rates.

The BIG question is of course, who is the third world of tomorrow? Who is so underdeveloped that they aren't even supplying cheap labor yet,and thus will be the conquested supply market of the future?


A revoultion starting in England, France and Germany as predicted my Marx is now a near impossibilty.

What makes you say this?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Citzen Smith
IS IT TIME FOR THE MODERN COMMUNISTS OF THE 21st century to re-write the old theories?

Sure.

In principle, it's always time to do better.

So far, no one has. That is, some parts of Marxism are clearly obsolete and only people who treat Marxism "like a religion" still take them seriously. But once we get rid of the crap, there's still this monumental paradigm to which no one has ever proposed a reasonable alternative.


A revolution starting in England, France and Germany as predicted by Marx is now a near impossibility.

If you start from Marx's assumption that proletarian revolution only takes place in the most advanced (and senile) capitalist countries, then it follows logically that the countries of western Europe will be the sites of the "next wave" of communist upheavals...however "impossible" that looks now.

It also follows that the wave of revolutions that took place in the "third world" after 1945 were bourgeois revolutions...regardless of the rhetoric & red flags, etc.

Of course, Marx could be wrong...but if he was, that lands us in a mess of difficulties -- not least of which is how to build a communist society where the material conditions for it don't exist.

It would be, quite literally, a "castle in the air".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Citzen Smith]

sorry, i have belatedly realised that this not really the right forum to place this question in, it more belongs in the philosphy section or something akin to it. However, im going to continue with it anyway.

Yes, i agree that the despite the flag waving and the etc most of the 'revolutions' amongst the third world countries were not revolutions in the pure communist sense. Even the russian revolution was largely built around the idea that you could go from an almost feudal state straight to communism. Whether this is true or not im not sure, but history seem to suggest not. As for my comment about the kennedys and the etc, i can see my mistake there. But i still think that the prevalence of the concentration of the poorest into areas such as africa radically changes communisms veiw of the world. How can the working class of today in England or France or Germany be identified with the working class of the 1860. Perhaps were we really need to start looking for a working class revolution is India and China. I also would like to add that this idea that communism is inevetiable, is, possibly wrong. After all, we moved from feudalism to capatlism. Why isnt it perefectly possible that we move from capatlism to something else in the future? Other than communism?