Cuba

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

I was reading about the CIA's plan to invade Cuba after Castro dies. They are on standby! And after his funeral they plan to barge in and westernize Cuba and destroy everything to do with Che, to make it as if he never existed! Im so angry! If that happens I'm going to make sure London is plastered with Che's face! I dont care if i get arrested!! Tony Blair claims Che is the face of Terrorism! When Blair and Bush are the terrorists!!

[Rage Against the Right]

Where did you read the reports on this? I'd be interested in reading up on it. That's crazy.

[GlassDraggon]

Yeah, I'd like to start co-ordinating with people in different parts of the United States and Europe to plan protests and demonstrations BEFORE Castro dies. I'm also in constant contact with several people who are loosely affiliated with Pastors For Peace that break the U.S. embargo every year in order to deliver over 50 tons of medical and educational supplies to Cuba. So if you're interested in planning- drop me an email.

[In Search of True Thinkers]

I read a report on Democracynow.org as follows:

U.S. Warns Of Plans To "Liberate" Cuba"
The State Department's top official in Latin America has announced that President Bush is committed to the "liberation of Cuba" during the next four years. Roger Noriega said last week Washington already has a blueprint of plans for a post-Castro Cuba to prevent Castro's supporters from retaining control of the country after his death. Noriega said Washington wants to "ensure that vestiges of the regime don't hold on." He added "The transition essentially is under way today." Ricardo Alarcon, the speaker of Cuba's Parliament, warned the U.S. would fail in any such efforts. Alarcon said, "If they try it, they have to attack Cuba, then use military occupation and then attempt a regime change. They can attempt it, they can try, but they will be handed a defeat they will never forget." In other news from Cuba, the government released journalist Jorge Olivera from jail Monday. He is the seventh dissident freed in the past week.

[GlassDraggon]

This is the opportunity we've needed for the past 30 years. Bush may of had a strong case built against Saddam Hussein, but going against Cuba will be the downfall of Mein Furor Jr.

I'm going out to network tonight and this will very likely be the center of conversation. We need to start fighting this by counteracting the ignorance surrounding Cuba. I'm personally going to get people to start writing letters regarding Cuban policy, history, and modern government. I would strongly recommend you all do the same.

[encephalon]

If it happens with Bush still in office, or an ideological successor, it will continue at any cost, until cuba is exhausted of fighting against the US. That said, I think drumming up opposition to such an invasion could possibly stop it from happening. Cuba has done nothing to the United States, at least since the revolution and the cuban missile crisis. The *only* reason the US would have for invading cuba is mere ideological difference, and people should be made aware of this, as well as capitalist interests in exploiting cuba (once again) for all it is worth.

Of course, it will likely be portrayed as another act of "liberation," which thus far has duped much of the public at large. I'm amazed at how friendly a face imperialism has come to wear. People don't even realize it's a mask.

[Rage Against the Right]

When I was reading "Che: A Revolutionary Life" by Jon Lee Anderson, I found 3 American youth you fled to Cuba to fight under Castro during the revolution. If the United States would attempt such obvious disregard to international laws and risk crossing the line into imperialism, I would be extremely tempted to go to Cuba myself and let everyone in the world know I was there. I know most of the people in this United States and political and socially retarded, but I reserve a small amount of faith that this atrocity would be too much for them to swallow. Long live the Revolution.

[GlassDraggon]

I agree entirely. There is a group which breaks the embaro every year (loosely affiliated with Pastors For Peace) and I will be going down with them in '06. I would suggest many of you also consider the option. Should you have questions or need contact info let me know and I can get you set up with the people who head it up. As far as relocating to Cuba- what Cuba needs to do is offer Americans official "asylum" in Cuba on the grounds that America is ruled by a cruel dictator who denies his people proper education, healthcare, and the necessities of life.

[American_Trotskyist]

I agree, but I think there should be a form of International Brigades formed. But I find it unlikly that the US could invade Cuba, unless of course there is a draft. We need more troops in Iraq and America is running out, in 2006 the US HAS to, there can be no more extensions, reture all of the National Guard. So it seems likely that there will be a draft. Now the US and all of the West are imperialist, they will go where there is money to be made. Fruit and Sugar aren't enought to make the capitalist move their forces from Oil. So it will probably be done by Fascism there, they will put in annother Baptista type dictator and use merc.

[GlassDraggon]

I think you drastically underestimate the threat posed by Cuba against the United States. Cuba is a symbol of victory against oppression and capitalism. Therefore Cuba threatens to spread socialist/communist ideals across South and Central America, which would in turn shut down thousands of factories and bankrupt hundreds of American corporations. We can already see signs of such an occurance in places like Venezuela and I believe in Argentina several hundred workers took over various factories and are now running them as co-operatives. It is also a beacon of hope to people like ourselves and by shutting down such a beacon it would dampen or even annihilate the threat of a socialist/communist resurgance.

So although the chances of armed invasion are debatable, the chances of a governmental overthrow are overwhelming. Should we wait until it comes to war before making a move? I for one will not sit on my ass while America weakens, undermines, and eventually infects Cuba with it's disease.

I agree entirely on forming in International Brigade and my opinion is that such networking and organization should have already been in place years ago. We should have a plan of action in the event that it does come down to military invasion that would allow large numbers of us to relocate almost immediately to Cuba and/or provide supplies and aid.

[fuerzasocialista]

We should have a plan of action in the event that it does come down to military invasion that would allow large numbers of us to relocate almost immediately to Cuba and/or provide supplies and aid.

And take up arms to fight against the oppressors...
:hammer:

[encephalon]

I'm up for treason.

[Paradox]

Bush may of had a strong case built against Saddam Hussein

Pardon me for getting off topic, but what was his "strong" case against saddam? There were no links to al qaeda. There were no WMDs left, and if there were, we all know who helped saddam get them...*cough*u$a*cough* Not a "strong" case. Or are you referring to the switch in accusations that came after no WMDs were found, and they started claiming they were there to "liberate" Iraq?


The *only* reason the US would have for invading cuba is mere ideological difference, and people should be made aware of this, as well as capitalist interests in exploiting cuba (once again) for all it is worth.

Of course, it will likely be portrayed as another act of "liberation," which thus far has duped much of the public at large. I'm amazed at how friendly a face imperialism has come to wear. People don't even realize it's a mask.

Unfortunately true. Nobody will be liberated by such action. It's a shame that people just buy whatever they're fed by the media and officals. If only they knew the truth about Cuba and Socialism/Communism. We'll have to fight our way through that ignorance before we can gain significant support.


what Cuba needs to do is offer Americans official "asylum" in Cuba on the grounds that America is ruled by a cruel dictator who denies his people proper education, healthcare, and the necessities of life.

I'll be the first to sign up, if that happens. :D It would be interesting to the u$ government reaction to that, and to people leaving the u$ for Cuba. I can here them now- "traitors!!!"


I'm up for treason.

YES!!! VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!! :cuba:

[encephalon]

Pardon me for getting off topic, but what was his "strong" case against saddam? There were no links to al qaeda. There were no WMDs left, and if there were, we all know who helped saddam get them...*cough*u$a*cough* Not a "strong" case. Or are you referring to the switch in accusations that came after no WMDs were found, and they started claiming they were there to "liberate" Iraq?

roughly the same thing they'll do with cuba, and people will support it.

[encephalon]

During the depression, people flocked to the USSR. It was the first and only time in US history that more people left than entered.

Unfortunately, Cuba has limited space...

[Rage Against the Right]

Are there many people on the forum who live in Cuba? I just had a distant friend return from there on a surfing trip and he said he had a good experience and made a lot of contacts. I was just wondering what contacts we had as a forum with Cuba.

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 09:13 AM

I agree entirely on forming in International Brigade and my opinion is that such networking and organization should have already been in place years ago.
Give me four years, just four years!

Hopefully by the time the endgame between Cuba and America comes, the revolutionary sitiuation will have spread in South America; which could make it useless for the invasion of Cuba, even though I doubt the invasion of Cuba will stop anything from happening eventually in South America; Cuba might be a catalyst for revolution, but certainatly not the inciter.

Anyways, Viva La Revolution! :hammer:

[GlassDraggon]

The U.S. military just took over our port today in order to begin large military equipment shipments to South America and into undisclosed nations. So if thats a sign...

[GlassDraggon]

Sorry, accidental repeat...

[Rage Against the Right]

The U.S. has been supplying arms to the Colombian government for awhile to get rid of FARC. aka 17,000 Marxist guerillas!!

[Des]

US will only loose if they invade cuba...

they'll have a massive backlash from other countries if they did that (more so than that of Iraq)

US is heading in the direction of suicide! the world is turning against them at an alarming rate!

the next world war will be fought against the USA.. not of those mentioned by bush as the ones to worry about..

[encephalon]

The US is turning in the direction of (attempted) world hegemony. The special interest groups that are that backbone of this administration (and likely future ones) make that blatantly clear in their statement of principles, going so far as to say any attempts to build a military force as powerful as the american military, even if the nation(s) aren't an "enemy", should be seen as an aggressive act against the US and dealt with as if it were an attack.

War with the US is inevitable. US continental soil hasn't been invaded since poncho villa, so even a lot of citizens who don't support the policies of this government will fight out of sheer contempt and pride It won't be pretty. Sadly, a majority of the US public is ignorant enough to follow thier "leaders" into oblivion.

I don't think it will happen any time soon, though. With the current setup, war with the US would plunge the world into another global depression, which would be directly against the interests of the ruling class worldwide. The first step is to undermine the capital power of the US.

[Paradox]

US continental soil hasn't been invaded since poncho villa

It's PANCHO Villa, not Poncho. ;)

The u$ was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor, though I guess that wouldn't count since Hawaii was not yet a state, but just a territory.

[encephalon]

It's PANCHO Villa, not Poncho.

hah. I didn't even notice I spelled it that way. :P Christ, I should've known better..


The u$ was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor, though I guess that wouldn't count since Hawaii was not yet a state, but just a territory.

That's why I said continental soil :) Even now, people think of Hawaii as some kind of foreign place, only a state by technical details. Had Japan attacked california.. well, I think the US reaction would have been even more aggressive, at least.

[Sabrina]

The more that I study the Revolution and the more I live it in my heart everyday. What I find difficult though is this. I'm 35, married and with 2 kids. My husband is not political at all and doesn't even like to discuss politics with me in any way because he can't stand the way that I get so personal and worked up about it. Now, I think about Cuba every day. I have Che up on my screensaver at work (yes, at work!) and I read Granma Int'l on the internet just about every day on my breaks and lunch at work. I've even been reading the Spanish version even though I don't speak Spanish but I understand it (I'm Italian originally, living in Canada for the past 20 years or so). And, to top it all off, I am going to start taking Spanish lessons this Saturday because I really want to be able to speak to people when I end up going to Cuba (which I really want it to be this year).

My problem is that I would love to move to Cuba right now even and be ready for the Revolution. But it's not only my life, I have my husband and my kids to take into consideration and, as much as I'd love to, I'm no Che. I can't just leave them and go....so how can I help?????? This is my dilemma.

I found out about this program here in Canada, the Che Guevara Brigade, which is basically a trip that you sign up for and pay your fare and you go down to Cuba and you do all kinds of voluntary work that they need help with. As well, in the program there are all sorts of cultural things offered. However, I've tried to e-mail the contact in Vancouver to find out about the 2005 program and I didn't get an answer yet, so I'm just waiting to see if the info comes up. Does anyone have any words of wisdom as far as what can I do within my limitations to help the Revolution.

I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks

[encephalon]

I've pretty much shared the same problem that you do with your husband with every person I've ever been involved with.. many people simply want to live for today, the hell with tomorrow. It's likely different with a husband/wife, however.

As for children: this is the main factor in what ties people to having a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I've thought about this a lot, because I do want to have children at some point. And I would also want to keep them as safe as I possibly can. I am unsure if I would honestly have the strength to risk the well-being of my own children in the name of revolution, even if that's exactly what the status quo plans on. I am, after all is said, only a product of my society, and that is a very large consideration in anyone's life. That is why many revolutionary movements, I think, I generally supported more by the students/youth than anything: they truly have little to risk.

I don't blame you one bit for feeling torn. I'd feel quite the same, if not moreso.

I would suggest that you act in such a manner to support the revolutionary cause that would not risk your family as much as outright confrontation. This is, I think, the most productive thing anyone can do at this moment. I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that openly spreading revolutionary/marxist/communist ideals is not as much of a risk as it is here in the United States. I'd suggest to concentrate on that more than anything.

I don't think anyone can do much more than that at this point in history. Granted, I think it would be quite noble for someone to go to Cuba to fight against the US if/when it attacks, but it would do little to change the outcome, especially when weighing in personal factors. If the US truly attacked Cuba, unless the world over rallies with Cuba there will be no chance for Cuba, whether you go to help or not. The most important thing to do, I believe, especially for those of us in the most developed capitalist states, is to first garnish support against the establishment before moving against it. It would be foolish, for instance, for anyone to attempt a revolution in the US with the current political atmosphere. It would hurt our cause, not further it.

So yeah.. though others may disagree with me, I think the best thing you could possibly do is spread the cause to those around you. I don't care how sincere any movement is in a smaller country--if there is little support for a revolutionary or socialist cause in the larger capitalist states, then that country is doomed to fail. We need to build a supportive infrastructure in our own societies more than anything.

My only hope for Cuba is that China would support them rather than the US, though I'm nearly positive they would side with the US or stay out of it altogether. We find ourselves in a very different situation than revolutionaries have ever been in the past, and now more than ever before international revolution is a must, or at least international support thereof.

I'd voice your support of Cuba and the revolution, especially if the US attacks, , but only if it is safe for you--in many cases, it is not so safe to do so a few miles south of canada's border. But I don't think anyone would ask you to disregard the safety of your family, especially if it is futile in the immediate sense.

[Guest]

I appreciate your reply very much Encephalon and I'm glad to know that others share in my dilemma. As far as your suggestions, this is really pretty much what I'm doing. You are right, where I am in Canada, it's not a problem to spread the word of the struggle although you still get objections and people that just don't have a clue about what they are talking about, but I find that as long as there is some kind of political interest on the other person's part, it helps when one is informed and can basically respond with actual facts of what is going on. I just hope that it gets people thinking and maybe some will pick up a book on Che or the Cuban Revolution and they will start seeing our side of the issues.

Anyway, thanks again and if you have any other suggestions in the future, please pass them on.

[Sabrina]

I appreciate your reply very much Encephalon and I'm glad to know that others share in my dilemma. As far as your suggestions, this is really pretty much what I'm doing. You are right, where I am in Canada, it's not a problem to spread the word of the struggle although you still get objections and people that just don't have a clue about what they are talking about, but I find that as long as there is some kind of political interest on the other person's part, it helps when one is informed and can basically respond with actual facts of what is going on. I just hope that it gets people thinking and maybe some will pick up a book on Che or the Cuban Revolution and they will start seeing our side of the issues.

Anyway, thanks again and if you have any other suggestions in the future, please pass them on.


Oops, sorry about that, I forgot to log in and I just sent the reply so it didn't identify me, but that was from me.

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

i found this!!

http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/

and more importantly...

http://www.handsoffcuba.org.uk/

[Paradox]

Had Japan attacked california.. well, I think the US reaction would have been even more aggressive, at least.

Remember how the Japanese tried to send bombs on ballons so they'd come to the u$ and explode here!?! :lol: That was brilliant!!! :lol:


That's why I said continental soil :)

Sorry, guess I just skipped over that word.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Tony Blair claims Che is the face of Terrorism!

When did he make that claim?

[encephalon]

Remember how the Japanese tried to send bombs on ballons so they'd come to the u$ and explode here!?! laugh.gif That was brilliant!!! laugh.gif

That was classic. Maybe one of them was lost track of by both sides and ended up in roswell :P

[Rage Against the Right]

Speaking of spreading the word. Is there any well written (preferably PDF formatted) works around that are good for distributing?

[encephalon]

of what? The manifesto? Contemporary works????

I plan on making pdf's of classic communist works, as well as a sort of "introduction to communism" pamphlet that's more reflective of today than those marx and engels used (for passing out in front of high schools, of course, just like the christians do..).

Let me know what you're looking for exactly, and I'd be happy to make it.