Signed up today

[trex]

Hello, leftists and others of che-lives.com.

I was told about this site by a friend, and I may want to examine it. I know little of communism (being an American capitalist) other then:
-It is a wrong system of thought that disencoruages hard work and ambition
-It uses mock elections to keep control in the hands of the few
-And what I've read from "Animal Farm"

Right now, I hold a mostly negative view of communism, seeing as how Stalin killed more in Ukraine then Hitler killed during his run. But, like satanism and neopaganism, I'm going to let the followers of the ideology explain themselves. I find it hard to believe people would willingly accept to a destruction of free market, free choice, and free thought, as the 'red scare' civics teachers have said.

Also, I really, Really would perfer not to be criticized because George Bush has done something wrong, or said something stupid. I'm giving this a chance, so please give me a chance.



by the way, I am NOT a Nazi. They hate me for what I am as they hate you for what you are. Thought I might want to say this, seeing as how they seem to stalk to forum; " Nazi groups are known to collect information on active Comrades..."

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:25 AM
Hello, leftists and others of che-lives.com.

I was told about this site by a friend, and I may want to examine it. I know little of communism (being an American capitalist) other then:
-It is a wrong system of thought that disencoruages hard work and ambition
-It uses mock elections to keep control in the hands of the few
-And what I've read from "Animal Farm"

Right now, I hold a mostly negative view of communism, seeing as how Stalin killed more in Ukraine then Hitler killed during his run. But, like satanism and neopaganism, I'm going to let the followers of the ideology explain themselves. I find it hard to believe people would willingly accept to a destruction of free market, free choice, and free thought, as the 'red scare' civics teachers have said.

Also, I really, Really would perfer not to be criticized because George Bush has done something wrong, or said something stupid. I'm giving this a chance, so please give me a chance.



by the way, I am NOT a Nazi. They hate me for what I am as they hate you for what you are. Thought I might want to say this, seeing as how they seem to stalk to forum; " Nazi groups are known to collect information on active Comrades..."
You have alot to learn! You have ALOT of misconceptions of Communism, actually, I think it would be best for you to forget everything you think Communism is, and start all over.
Unluckly, you just gave a argueing point to the people who hate George Orwell and his book "Animal Farm".
You have an open mind at least, willing to hear the other side, but you'll be lucky if you are not restricted to the "Opposing Ideologies" forum.


First of all, the Soviet Union was not Communist, ever. China, North Korea and Cuba have never been Communist. Communism is a stateless, classless and borderless society where social antagonisms cease to exist achieved by the working class rising up and seizing control of the state, useing the state, the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" will be established (the dictatorship of one social class, not one man). Social antagonisms will start to dissaper as the old ruling class is absorbed into the working class, ending with no classes. Since the state is a system of class opression, and there no more classes existing; the state is unessecary, not needed. Once the state is dissolved, Communism comes along.

Such countries like Soviet Union, depending on what type of Communist you ask, in my view, was a "degenerated workers' state", The Soviet Union held Marxist-Leninist Ideology, a revolutionary vanguard that "guides" the proletariat in the revolution. Unfortunately, such a system turns into State Capitalism, a new ruling class ruling over the working class; not even Socialism really.
A geunine revolution for example would be, for example the Paris Commune; where the working class rose in revolt and set up a ultra-democractic workers' state where there was a surprising amount of freedom of speach.
An other example would be the Spanish Revolution of 1936, a real revolution gives the working class the power, not a privledged elite as of what happened in Russia or China.

[Zingu]

Right now, I hold a mostly negative view of communism, seeing as how Stalin killed more in Ukraine then Hitler killed during his run. But, like satanism and neopaganism, I'm going to let the followers of the ideology explain themselves. I find it hard to believe people would willingly accept to a destruction of free market, free choice, and free thought, as the 'red scare' civics teachers have said.


You're talking of Stalinism, the ideology that was in power at the time, Communists, by no means want to restrict free choice and free thought (expect to Stalinists!), as long as it does not threaten or destablize the revolution.
The free market is an evil; I cannot even begin explaining how much suffering it causes daily, hopefully some other comrades can give some explainiations, it is by no means "free".


-It is a wrong system of thought that disencoruages hard work and ambition
-It uses mock elections to keep control in the hands of the few

Communism encorages the human to fullfill his potentional and work whatever he wants, the sky is the limit.

There are no elections in Communism, since social classes do not exist and there is no state, and no leaders; there is no need for them.

PLEASE don't restrict this guy admins, I think this guy is potentional leftist, he had a open enough mind to listen to our side of the story.

[Zingu]

Read this for a basic idea of Communism:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...11/prin-com.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm)

[trex]

thank you, zingu for all this information. I mean, Cuba, China, and the USSR were billed as communism by every source I had, so that last link helped me out. I think I'm beginning to understand the concept.

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 01:24 PM
thank you, zingu for all this information. I mean, Cuba, China, and the USSR were billed as communism by every source I had,
Its a common propaganda term the media uses; you're not the only one who had a wrong view of Communism.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 01:24 PM
thank you, zingu for all this information. I mean, Cuba, China, and the USSR were billed as communism by every source I had, so that last link helped me out. I think I'm beginning to understand the concept.
No, no.... this is all wrong. China, Cuba, USSR, DPRK et al. were and/or are communist countries. You have simply been lied to about the nature of these countries.

This is a pamphlet titled Abuses of Socialism are Intolerable, it is written by Kim Jong Il, Chairman of the Workers Party of Korea. It talks about some of the lies propagated about socialist states in the western world.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/211.pdf

This answers some of your questions about the USSR
http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc9912/lies.htm

This addresses the question of the supposed famine
http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node68.htm...000000000000000 (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node68.html#SECTION00800000000000000000)

Zingu, your quote from J. Stalin is not really something Stalin said. Do you seriously think he would say something so ridiculous and simplistic? Read some Stalin.

[Zingu]

Well, you just got the Authoritarian perspective of such countries,


I know some truths must be over exaggerated; but you cannot deny that such things did happen, ever read "The Sword and the Shield: A Secert History of the KGB; The Mikrotin Archive"?

[trex]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 5 2005, 02:54 PM
No, no.... this is all wrong. China, Cuba, USSR, DPRK et al. were and/or are communist countries. You have simply been lied to about the nature of these countries.

This is a pamphlet titled Abuses of Socialism are Intolerable, it is written by Kim Jong Il, Chairman of the Workers Party of Korea. It talks about some of the lies propagated about socialist states in the western world.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/211.pdf

This answers some of your questions about the USSR
http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc9912/lies.htm

This addresses the question of the supposed famine
http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node68.htm...000000000000000 (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node68.html#SECTION00800000000000000000)

Zingu, your quote from J. Stalin is not really something Stalin said. Do you seriously think he would say something so ridiculous and simplistic? Read some Stalin.
You made some good point there. However, this leads me to the same question:Why are Cubans still fleeing, and why were the citizens of Berlin flooding across the border into Us/Uk/French territory?

What I'm trying to say is, at least in this democracy, we can move about, travel abroad, leave it.

[Ligeia]

I think the people of east- Germany(DDR) were flooding across the boarder because they were afraid of something new or maybe because they knew that some of the people living in west-Germany were quite rich in comparison to the things they could own and for example on June 17th 1953 there were many strikes and so on from the side of the workers because the SED wanted them to work more hours for the same wage and other things and as they went on their strikes, the red army came and broke them down,and they had some losses,many were killed and put into .....(I cant remember the word)....and perhaps this was one event they always kept in mind.Therefore the SED had people watching them constantly and if they wanted to go on holidays,they had collective (group)holidays somewhere in Germany and not in Italy like the west-Germans and the wall was build and that made all quite hostile to the people.....I dont know if Im correct in my suggestions,so please correct me,if Im wrong. :huh: