Emo

[Rockfan]

All those bands like good charlet and simple plan singing abouthow there dads don't love them and crap. And the simple plan single "welcome to my life" when he sings about all his so called "hardships". those kids hit by the tsunamis are alot worse off then him.

[Ian]

oops

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Simple Plan and Good Charlotte not emo. They suck, but they're not emo. And emo sucks as well.

[Rockfan]

Ok, well a mate of mine said they were. So what is Emo.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

emo (http://www.fourfa.com/)

Simple Plan and Good Charlotte are punk. Bad punk, to be specific.

[R E V O L T]

terrible horrible neo-punk... it makes me sick

[Rockfan]

thanks i c now. so whats some Emo i might hear on the radio?

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:37 AM
thanks i c now. so whats some Emo i might hear on the radio?
What sort of radio station would you be listening to?

When I first heard the term emo I thought it had something to do with Emo Phillips.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 10:17 AM
emo (http://www.fourfa.com/)

Simple Plan and Good Charlotte are punk. Bad punk, to be specific.
Now I'm confused.

I don't know any of the bands mentioned on that site really.

Is bad punk similar to emo?

[STI]

Emo kills. Stop the killing.

[FatFreeMilk]

The contribution of emo music is great. Yeah, the music sucks but it's the new trend (at least in Southern California).

Now there are less kids trying to be punk. These are the kids that tag the anarchy "a" all over the school bus withought bothering to learn what it means besides "fuck the governmet!".

Also, you have to admit, emo guys are hot. Not all of them ofcourse but god damn, most know know how to dress. Who doesn't love tight pants on a hot guy?

Generalizations are a terrible terrible thing so it's bad to say all emo sucks, just most of it. The stuff that I hear is fucking annoying. I can't stand the screaming and crying. There are a few emo bands that I've heard that play great but the "vocals", or better yet "throat", kills it completley.

My friend provides the thraot in his emo/hardcore/punk/goth/really loud/out of tune band. I saw them perform once and had a blast so maybe it's the type of music that's only good live?

[Rockfan]

i c so now its like creed where guys can walk round in tight pants and be told there cool. well i lisen to the rock here in kiwiland! rock on!

[The Forum Idiot]

Good charlotte are NOT PUNK. They are pop-emo-punk. Same with a lot of crap like Sum 41, New Found Glory and Bowling For Soup (although B4S are not as unbearable as the others).

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by The Forum [email protected] 5 2005, 06:46 PM
Good charlotte are NOT PUNK. They are pop-emo-punk. Same with a lot of crap like Sum 41, New Found Glory and Bowling For Soup (although B4S are not as unbearable as the others).
Bowling for soup are funny, and that forgives them.

I suppose only bands like the exploited are 'real' punk, right?

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:03 AM

I suppose only bands like the exploited are 'real' punk, right?
No, they're just crap.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by celtopunk+Jan 6 2005, 01:18 AM--> (celtopunk @ Jan 6 2005, 01:18 AM)
[email protected] 6 2005, 12:03 AM

I suppose only bands like the exploited are 'real' punk, right?
No, their just crap. [/b]
well I can't say I'm a huge fan, but then again I haven't heard enough to make any real judgment. I must admit the few songs I have heard are just noise..

[Anarchist Freedom]

EMO nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooo
i hate fucking emo music the kids here write in there livejournals about how hard life is and about teenage love and write shitty poems about how heartbroken they are while there parents hand then a 20 dollar bill for a movie. I also love the REALLY gothic chicks then you see then with there parents and there parents are clean cut suberbanites lmao its cute. I hate goths and emo kids there a bain on humanity.

[Rockfan]

real punk is like the sex pistols and the ramones.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 02:51 AM
real punk is like the sex pistols and the ramones.
Well there are people here who would argue (wrongly) that because the sex pistols were created by the record industy they were not punk.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by The Forum [email protected] 5 2005, 12:46 PM
Good charlotte are NOT PUNK. They are pop-emo-punk. Same with a lot of crap like Sum 41, New Found Glory and Bowling For Soup (although B4S are not as unbearable as the others).
Stop your crying, yes they are.
Punk is punk, regardless of whether it's good or not.

[smn]

sounds like a pretty emo thing to do - you know complaining over the internet - and yes they are emo bands

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by RedZeppelin+Jan 6 2005, 04:15 AM--> (RedZeppelin @ Jan 6 2005, 04:15 AM)
The Forum [email protected] 5 2005, 12:46 PM
Good charlotte are NOT PUNK. They are pop-emo-punk. Same with a lot of crap like Sum 41, New Found Glory and Bowling For Soup (although B4S are not as unbearable as the others).
Stop your crying, yes they are.
Punk is punk, regardless of whether it's good or not. [/b]
Heh...are you just doing to punk what I did to prog? Sorry, but punk is reactionary. Good Charlotte are not reactionary in the slightest. They're just whiny brats trying to make some cash.

Also, the Sex Pistols comment is a bit overblown...They were brought together by a guy who was not part of the industry...Read The Boy Looked At Johnny. Also, I hate The Ramones. They suck AND they were apparently all right wing and only formed to cash in....

Back to RedZep's post:

To be a punk you can't be a media pawn...Which is a main reason I don't consider any post-78 Sex Pistols as real punk. Good Charlotte, Busted, McFly, New Found Glory, Sum 41, etc are all just human marketing schemes. There is also no earnesty to most of the bands I've listed... If there's no honesty or expression I'd say it shouldn't be considered punk... Its also not all about "fuck the government, society, anyone above us, etc, etc". The Buzzcocks and Undertones have 2 classic examples of non-revolutionary classics (Teenage Kicks and Ever Fallen In Love?).

[commiecrusader]

Good Charlotte, Simple Plan, Sum 41, Bowling for Soup... Pop-Emo-Punk???

What the fuck!!! Emo isn't anything to do with any of these bands. They are pure Pop-Punk.

Some better known Emo bands than those on that website are Coheed & Cambria, RUFiO (quite big in the U$ I hear), The Early November, Taking Back Sunday, Saves The Day.

Nothing wrong with Emo-music. I love it. But if you cry to it, then your a wetty and should be shot lol.

[The Forum Idiot]

0_0

You sicko. (j/k)

[Rockfan]

So in conclsion no one likes emo, "bad Punk" and all the other crap. Execpte fat free milk who just likes guys in tight pants. I recemnd she watchs some creed vidios!! (scary). Great.

[Rockfan]

Sorry commiecrusader i hadnt read your post. mabey you just like tight pants too.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Sorry, but punk is reactionary.

Freudian slip?
:lol:


To be a punk you can't be a media pawn

That's crap.

Punk is a genre of music.
Sum 41 and Good Cahrlotte conform to that style.
Therefore, their music is punk.

[Invader Zim]

Some punks are ridiculous, if they don't like a bands music because they think its too conformist they say "they aren't real punk". Or they reach a certain level of popularity then they become "pop".

It seams to me only punk has this illusive chameleon like ability to change its form when ever some new band who they don't like comes along.

They then say that its because Punk is all about non-conformity and being "yourself", while they dress almost exacty alike, and try and emulate the looks and behaviour of the bands they like.

Yeah real non-conformist.

These so called punks are a joke, and they irritatingly exist in huge numbers at my home town. It seams the Nu-Metal scene is going down the exact road, with supposedly non-conformist people saying that by wearing black, slime green, dog collors with spikes, they are sticking two fingers up at the man, when all they are actually doing is immitating everybody around them.

The only genre which has fans who really are into self expression from what I gather are the indi rock fans. They wear litteraly anything they can get their hands on. I have a friend who is into indi, and he wears all sorts, he even has an RAF jacked from a charity shop with no buttons or badges and several patches on the fabric in varing degree's of blue. Now thats origional, dressing almost identically to a member of Rancid is not.

Rant over.

PS don't get me wrong, I have nothjing against the music, some of its really good. Its those specific fans who are obviously just hypocrits.

[RhetoricalAbsurdity]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 02:37 AM
thanks i c now. so whats some Emo i might hear on the radio?
As with any genre of music, I wouldn't recommend looking for any enjoyable emo on the radio. The stuff you'll hear there is the sucky emo: Dashboard Confessional, Taking Back Sunday, etc. If you want some emo worth listening to, check out the indie stuff: Death Cab for Cutie (my personal favourite), older Modest Mouse, Pretty Girls Make Graves, Jimmy Eat World (I know they're all over the place now, but check out Clarity or Bleed American/Jimmy Eat World), and Bright Eyes are all really good emo bands. And trust me, I don't use that phrase much.

[Urban Rubble]

The only genre which has fans who really are into self expression from what I gather are the indi rock fans. They wear litteraly anything they can get their hands on. I have a friend who is into indi, and he wears all sorts, he even has an RAF jacked from a charity shop with no buttons or badges and several patches on the fabric in varing degree's of blue. Now thats origional, dressing almost identically to a member of Rancid is not.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait......wait.........

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Most ridiculous comment EVER. Makes me want to start calling you Enema again.

Indie kids are every bit as cookie cutter as "punk" kids. What you've got to understand is that ALL of these sub cultures (hip hop kids, punka, "rastas", indie kids, skaters, snowboarders, surfers) degenerate into this trendy bullshit. I think it's hilarious when opposing members of these cultures try to call each other out for being too trendy. THEY'RE ALL TRENDY. However, within all of these subcultures you will people who genuinely love it and aren't there because it's cool and their friends are.

Get over yourself, punk is just like anything else, once it gets popular and the mainstream grabs ahold it becomes watered down and trendy. Just like everything else, there are still GOOD punk bands and "punks" who are that way simply because they love the music, they're just in the minority.

[commiecrusader]

Sorry commiecrusader i hadnt read your post. mabey you just like tight pants too.
I have never worn tight pants in my life, and never intend to.


The only genre which has fans who really are into self expression from what I gather are the indi rock fans.
I'd have to disagree. One of my friends is the most generic Indie Kid youll ever see.

Rhetorical Absurdity: I didn't know Modest Mouse did Emo music... And Dashboard Confessional do suck, but Taking Back Sunday are amazing. And, whilst being catchy, Jimmy Eat World mostly suck also.

[celtopunk]

I didn't know the RAF had jackets done up. When did they have time to where them? It would make them easy to spot by the police and such.


And what's all this raving about Modest Mouse? I hate that shit.

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2005, 05:22 AM

The only genre which has fans who really are into self expression from what I gather are the indi rock fans. They wear litteraly anything they can get their hands on. I have a friend who is into indi, and he wears all sorts, he even has an RAF jacked from a charity shop with no buttons or badges and several patches on the fabric in varing degree's of blue. Now thats origional, dressing almost identically to a member of Rancid is not.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait......wait.........

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Most ridiculous comment EVER. Makes me want to start calling you Enema again.

Indie kids are every bit as cookie cutter as "punk" kids. What you've got to understand is that ALL of these sub cultures (hip hop kids, punka, "rastas", indie kids, skaters, snowboarders, surfers) degenerate into this trendy bullshit. I think it's hilarious when opposing members of these cultures try to call each other out for being too trendy. THEY'RE ALL TRENDY. However, within all of these subcultures you will people who genuinely love it and aren't there because it's cool and their friends are.

Get over yourself, punk is just like anything else, once it gets popular and the mainstream grabs ahold it becomes watered down and trendy. Just like everything else, there are still GOOD punk bands and "punks" who are that way simply because they love the music, they're just in the minority.
This post is mainly in reaction to Red Zep's and Enigma's but I decided to quote this guy 'cause his post included the most of this "punk subtopic"

1) Punk is not a strict musical genre like, say, heavy metal. Take The Clash, The Undertones, The Damned and the Dead Kennedys, All VERY different music.

2) I'm a punk and don't wear spikes or anything, I have long, greasy hair, acne, wear whatever I can, years old crappy trousers, etc. I don't really try to emulate my idols (although I've ended up a lot like Kurt Cobain who is incidentally one of my favourite performers). I'm a punk however a lot of my music is not political or extremely fast (like punk typically is) but I'm still a punk. I try and make my music as original as possible. Punk is an ethos rather than a strict musical style.

3)OF COURSE INDIE IS NOT ALL THE SAME YOU *&%$!!! ITS INDIE. AS IN INDIPENDANT! AS IN NOT ALL THE SAME STYLE OF MUSIC!!!!! Sorry, I don't mean to sound angry but basic logic has escaped across a border (or 30).

4)Once any genre gets popular enough it gets exploited, exploited. That's why I don't really consider later sex pistols as real punk as its been so exploited by the media far too much. Once people started capitolising on the genre (The Ramones, Good Charlotte, etc) it loses all original integrity and becomes just another way for EMI (and all the other big ones) to earn cash.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2005, 06:22 AM

The only genre which has fans who really are into self expression from what I gather are the indi rock fans. They wear litteraly anything they can get their hands on. I have a friend who is into indi, and he wears all sorts, he even has an RAF jacked from a charity shop with no buttons or badges and several patches on the fabric in varing degree's of blue. Now thats origional, dressing almost identically to a member of Rancid is not.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait......wait.........

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Most ridiculous comment EVER. Makes me want to start calling you Enema again.

Indie kids are every bit as cookie cutter as "punk" kids. What you've got to understand is that ALL of these sub cultures (hip hop kids, punka, "rastas", indie kids, skaters, snowboarders, surfers) degenerate into this trendy bullshit. I think it's hilarious when opposing members of these cultures try to call each other out for being too trendy. THEY'RE ALL TRENDY. However, within all of these subcultures you will people who genuinely love it and aren't there because it's cool and their friends are.

Get over yourself, punk is just like anything else, once it gets popular and the mainstream grabs ahold it becomes watered down and trendy. Just like everything else, there are still GOOD punk bands and "punks" who are that way simply because they love the music, they're just in the minority.

In responce to the insults I'll mail you a quater and you can then call someone who cares.

Most ridiculous comment EVER. Makes me want to start calling you Enema again.

See above, and then sit down and think to your self, and try and understand how little I give a shit what you think.

Indie kids are every bit as cookie cutter as "punk" kids.

You get a room full of indi kids and compair them, and I guarantee they wont all be dressed in the same kinds of stuff.

THEY'RE ALL TRENDY.

Hardly because indi is not remotly popular at the moment, there are only a couple of bands who have made it anywhere near huge popularity. This is because indi music is not in trend at the moment, unlike grunge and punk which seam to be making a comeback at the moment with the rise of nu-metal. I don't know maybe its different in the US, but indie bands and labels are very rare in the UK, and the indie "kids" generally listen to bands which split up years ago.

Just as an example there are over 500 members of my universities rock society, yet there are less than 20 members of the Indi society. Its difficult to be following a trend, which unfortunatly doesn't happen to be in trend at the moment.

Get over yourself,

Get over yourself first. It is the height of arrogance to think that I give a shit what you call me. You are just a name on a web page, I don't know you, I don't understand you, I live at least 3,000 miles away from you, and you think that calling me "Enema" will bother me? Jesus, you need to take a good look at what your saying.

Just like everything else, there are still GOOD punk bands and "punks" who are that way simply because they love the music, they're just in the minority.

thats what I said: -

Some punks are ridiculous

Not all, but some. How else could I have made that any more self explanitory?

2) I'm a punk and don't wear spikes or anything, I have long, greasy hair, acne, wear whatever I can, years old crappy trousers, etc. I don't really try to emulate my idols (although I've ended up a lot like Kurt Cobain who is incidentally one of my favourite performers). I'm a punk however a lot of my music is not political or extremely fast (like punk typically is) but I'm still a punk. I try and make my music as original as possible. Punk is an ethos rather than a strict musical style.

Another person who apparently has yet to grasp plain English, i will direct you like UR to the following statement: -

Some punks are ridiculous

3)OF COURSE INDIE IS NOT ALL THE SAME YOU *&%$!!! ITS INDIE. AS IN INDIPENDANT! AS IN NOT ALL THE SAME STYLE OF MUSIC!!!!! Sorry, I don't mean to sound angry but basic logic has escaped across a border (or 30).

Listen up mate, there is a button on your keyboard left of "A", its called the caps-lock, don't use it.

But please don't try and lecture me on Indi music, I know enough to get me by. The reason it's called Independant music is not because the bands are somehow from independant of other genre's of rock but because they are on an independant record lable. There aren't that many independent record labels around, and even less with bands which don't class them selves into some other genre. Then even after you've stripped away these bands a lot of the indi bands are Jazz, blues and accustic bands. So trend setting independent rock bands are actualy really rare now. Thus its not actually a trendies Genre. If of course you mean that there are lots of people who emulate bands like Coldplay

That goes to you as well UR, the last major indie record lable I can think of is Rough Trade, and i don't know if they actually still are independent, but they carried the Smiths, the last real indie band. They have the babyshambles and the strokes on them at the moment, who are the only two semi-major names I can think of on that lable..

1) Punk is not a strict musical genre like, say, heavy metal. Take The Clash, The Undertones, The Damned and the Dead Kennedys, All VERY different music.

Thats the same with everything.

4)Once any genre gets popular enough it gets exploited, exploited. That's why I don't really consider later sex pistols as real punk as its been so exploited by the media far too much. Once people started capitolising on the genre (The Ramones, Good Charlotte, etc) it loses all original integrity and becomes just another way for EMI (and all the other big ones) to earn cash.

Which is precisely why its impossible for a major record lable to get an indie band, they can not be an indi band on a major record lable, its a contradiciton in terms. They must be on an independant record lable, if they are on a major lable thn they aren't an indie band. Anyway self respecting bands don't, the Smiths stayed on their record lable.

[The Forum Idiot]

Please would you quote to me where a) I said proper indie appears on major labels frequently and b) where I said that all indie sounds the same, I said the exact opposite you idiot. I know plenty about indie. So just calm the fuck down. Indie bands are often very different however the idea of indie seams very trendy. E.g. the recent re-marketing of Pixies (who I don't think are on an indie label but are very independent in terms of sound, style and ideas). Indie is not a genre like punk, grunge, etc. Its an ADJECTIVE. You know what Nirvana's first album was, I mean the world famous Nirvana of Teen Spirit fame, THEIR FIRST ALBUM WAS INDIE*! It was sludgey punk-metal (later known as grunge), extremely heavy and violent. You know the Vaselines? Of course you don't, they were indie and you know what? They were extremely light, soft and melodic! You can't reffer to indie kids in the same way you refer to moshers or punks. Indie is not a musical genre in itself as there is no strict indie sound!

Also, if you don't give a shit so much then why the fucking hell do you make extra-long posts? It doesn't add up to me.

Rant over.


**Sub Pop originally started off as a very indipendent label in the late 80s (I believe around 87 onwards) but after several of their bands (Soundgarden, Screaming Trees, Nirvana, Mudhoney) got popular it lost any indipendant integrety. However, the Vaselines' label never had any major bands and closed up shortly after the Vaselines' album. Also, might I add that The Breeders' first album was extremely indie but still they were signed to a relatively large label (4AD). Indie is generally indipendent in sound and style.

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 09:30 AM

Sorry commiecrusader i hadnt read your post. mabey you just like tight pants too.
I have never worn tight pants in my life, and never intend to.


lol just joking lol

[Invader Zim]

I said proper indie appears on major labels frequently

You quote where I said it did. What you did saw was that Indie was called independent after the music, you said: -

ITS INDIE. AS IN INDIPENDANT! AS IN NOT ALL THE SAME STYLE OF MUSIC!

No it is not indi. As Independent! As in not all the same style of music. It is indie as in independant. As in on an independant record lable. Quite a lot of what is considered indie music does have its own style of music. Bands like the libertines, Razorlight, the smiths, etc, which if you are in the UK and say that you are into indie people assume you are refering too. These are indi bands, but when a person defines them self as an indie fan they usually listen to that kind of music, which is a step below what is considered regular rock. But the name stems from record labels and alternative rock. In the UK its generally like the underground britpop, based on the work of the Smith in the 80's, who were an indie band on an independent record label.

where I said that all indie sounds the same

Again where did I say you did?

I know plenty about indie

Clearly not.

So just calm the fuck down.

Coming from the person who posted this: -

)OF COURSE INDIE IS NOT ALL THE SAME YOU *&%$!!! ITS INDIE. AS IN INDIPENDANT! AS IN NOT ALL THE SAME STYLE OF MUSIC!!!!!

Calm down your self.


E.g. the recent re-marketing of Pixies (who I don't think are on an indie label but are very independent in terms of sound, style and ideas).

Pixies are an indie band...

THEIR FIRST ALBUM WAS INDIE*!

Nope, it was grunge. Despite being on an independant record label.

The term indie rock, springs from the fact that it comes from independent record labels. However there is much more to it than that, it requires funding from a non-mainstream source, and in general to be non-mainstream. Nirvana were just carring on what had already existed, they were nothing new, they just revived what had already existed. However it still remains that you cannot be an indie band and be on one of the big 5 labels.

You know the Vaselines?

The vaselines as I recall hearing had a lot of help from Rough trade, I haven't heard to much, but I'm told that they made some good stuff.

You can't reffer to indie kids in the same way you refer to moshers or punks.

Actually you can Indie kids are usually blindingly obvious.

Also, if you don't give a shit so much then why the fucking hell do you make extra-long posts? It doesn't add up to me.


I said I didn't give a shit what UR thought of me, I never said that I didn't want to debate a subject.

Just go and buy a Smiths album, that is probably the best example of Indie going.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

1) Punk is not a strict musical genre like, say, heavy metal. Take The Clash, The Undertones, The Damned and the Dead Kennedys, All VERY different music.

Punk is a musical genre.
There have been a vast amount of various movements in the punk scene, and that's why many "punk" bands are different.
Example: hard bop jazz sounds nothing like smooth jazz.

If you claim that punk is not a musical genre ("genre" meaning type, kind, or sort, and "musical" meaning of or relating to music), meaning that punk is not a type of music, and is instead an "ethos", then what exactly defines this ethos?


2) I'm a punk and don't wear spikes or anything, I have long, greasy hair, acne, wear whatever I can, years old crappy trousers, etc. I don't really try to emulate my idols (although I've ended up a lot like Kurt Cobain who is incidentally one of my favourite performers). I'm a punk however a lot of my music is not political or extremely fast (like punk typically is) but I'm still a punk. I try and make my music as original as possible. Punk is an ethos rather than a strict musical style.

Is this supposed to be a definition of what the "punk ethos" is?

"Punk" in itself is not a cultural movement, as we would think of one.
Example: Big band and swing jazz was a huge part of the Harlem renaissance, but when we think of that music by itself, it's not an actual cultural movement. It has no "ethos", dig?

And what exactly is an indy fan like?

[Invader Zim]

And what exactly is an indy fan like?

Thats the point, they all listen to similar types of music but except in one fact they have nothing in common in the way they dress, and that one common factor is that they usually dress badly.

[The Forum Idiot]

Okay, I'll start from the top.

1) I was an indie kid a few years ago, wanna know what I listened to? Early Oasis, Early Stereophonics, Four Star Mary and crazy Japanese soundtracks. Now, apart from the Japanese soundtracks all the bands that I mentioned were indie (although by the 3rd album Oasis had evolved into a corporate rock whore, same with Stereophonics). But they were completely different (well, Oasis and Stereophonics are kinda similar but there are many differences). NONE of them were anything like The Smiths.

2)


a lot of the indi bands are Jazz, blues and accustic bands

Okay you didn't say all but you said a lot, also, none of the indie bands you mentioned (Smiths, Razorlight and the Libertines) are Jazz, blues or acoustic. Please give better examples.

3)Nirvana's first album was indie! AND grunge! You don't get it, not only was it on an independent label but it had an independent sound. It was much sludgier than the contemporary grunge at the time and much heavier. Trust me, don't argue with me about grunge because I know my facts. If their album (Bleach) was like anything in any way it would be an extremely heavy uber-sludge version of Mudhoney singing Stooges songs while on high amounts of marijuana and LSD.

4)Yes the Vaselines are fucking brilliant and if you ever see a CD of theirs don't hesitate to buy it. To my knowledge they didn't have any help from RT but I have no way of being sure...It would however explain the re-release of all their stuff on one CD recently...

5) When I was an indie kid I had slightly long hair, wore dirty rotten T-shirts from Games Workshop, hardly ever washed and wore really crappy trousers. Sounds more like the grunge kid I would become, doesn't it?

Oh and I've heard the Smiths, they're ok but too optomistic for me

Onto RedZep's post!

6)Punk is not just a plain old sound! Punk is incredibly varied and not just a pure genre! It has virtually no sub-genres (pop-punk, grunge and post punk are the only genres I can think of which evolved from punk) but a lot of it is very different. Also, FYI, there was only one major british punk movement and I think 3 in the USA (however most USA punk isn't really considered punk now). The first UK movement (1976-1979) featured everyone from the Undertones to the Sex Pistols to X-Ray Spex to The Adverts and more. The first American movement (1967-1980) mainly featured bands now not considered punk (The Stooges*, Blondie, The Ramones (which suck btw)). The second American punk movement (and arguably the first to produce more than a couple real punk bands) (early eighties- now) was basically the underground hardcore scene which is still going, and are, although widely considered punk, often not as heavy or powerful as British punk (which I suppose also has a hardcore scene but not as much of one) and finally the 3rd American movement from the late eighties to now was basically this "pop-punk" trash like Blink 182, etc and many of this "pop-punk" is very emo-ish (and should almost never be considered punk) with only a few decent bands (Green Day, Offspring). Note: My movements thing is based on what gets called punk but not what punks consider punk.

7)I never said punk is not a musical genre, I said its not in the same way as other genres. Now I was not describing myself as the "punk ethos", I was trying to say that not all punks look and act the same. Very few serious punks have much except the music in common. May I say that it WAS a movement in the late seventies against Thatcherism, most prog, glam and metal and had many many political ideas, a lot of which affected people and, in more cases, pissed off the government, BBC and a lot of people.

8)Ignore Enigma's last post, he himself said they do not all listen to similar music.

[Invader Zim]

1) I was an indie kid a few years ago, wanna know what I listened to? Early Oasis, Early Stereophonics, Four Star Mary and crazy Japanese soundtracks. Now, apart from the Japanese soundtracks all the bands that I mentioned were indie (although by the 3rd album Oasis had evolved into a corporate rock whore, same with Stereophonics). But they were completely different (well, Oasis and Stereophonics are kinda similar but there are many differences). NONE of them were anything like The Smiths.


Most indie kids listen to that, but I guarantee you that bands like Oasis and the Steriophonics are not indie rock. I don't consider my self a hair Metaller, but I still listen to a lot of Hair metal music, I also listen to brit pop, like oasis and the steriophonics.

As for not listening to the Smiths, well the real indi kids who actually indie rock music in the UK, not just Oasis and the steriophonics, but actual traditionally famous cult indie bands, the most famous of which are the smiths. All modern Indie bands I have heard are in some way a follow on from this origional group and the sound they made.

Okay you didn't say all but you said a lot, also, none of the indie bands you mentioned (Smiths, Razorlight and the Libertines) are Jazz, blues or acoustic.

Indie is a broad term, when one is discussing bands such as the Smiths, Razorlight and the Libertines one assumes you understadn that you are talking specifically about indie rock.

Nirvana's first album was indie! AND grunge!

I disagree, while Bleach had its moments it was never anything new, bands had been doing that for years before Nirvana. The only thing that possibly relates it to what is considered modern indie rock is that it was on an unheard of vynal record label.

8)Ignore Enigma's last post, he himself said they do not all listen to similar music.

There is nearly always a set of bands in common. true they may not like the same bands. You may not like the expoited but that doesn't stop you not liking punk.

[The Forum Idiot]

Hmm....I know I probably would have loved The Smiths back then but I was like...10 or 11 so it was hard to find real old cult indie.

Can you please name me 5 bands which had a sound a lot like the sludgey sound of Bleach?

I can think of 2...at most 3 (The Stooges, Mudhoney and L7).

Also, I think we should both quit this arguing, its getting us nowhere and I think our views are more similar than it appears...

[Invader Zim]

Can you please name me 5 bands which had a sound a lot like the sludgey sound of Bleach?

I can think of 2...at most 3 (The Stooges, Mudhoney and L7).

Early sound garden (though not as fast), which I actually think is a blatant rip from the Stooges.

The siamese dream album by Smashing pumpkins has a very sludgey (I love that description :D ) feal to it. especially songs such as Cherub Rock, though again not nearly as fast as bleach. Especially songs like big cheese, though I admit they all song far more polished than Bleach. But if you had Curt Cobain doing vocals instead of Billy Corgan who sounds like a mixture of Brian Molko and Maralyn Manson on speed, then you have a similar sound to bleach with less bass.

Both of those have that kind of sound, though both are better and more polished, probably because they had bigger budgets than Nirvana had when they made bleach.

You also might want to check out Tools opiate and undertow for the true definition of alternative rock music.

Also, I think we should both quit this arguing, its getting us nowhere and I think our views are more similar than it appears...

Agreed

[The Forum Idiot]

Heh, I HATE Smashing Pumpkins, I'm sorry, I don't want to argue or answer why, I just have a pathological hatred of Billy Corgan. :D

Also, I believe that SP's Siamese Dream wasn't until the early 90s or something, I may be wrong but if it was in the '90s then Nirvana didn't copy them.

Finally, I think it was the sludgey, unpolished raw violence of Bleach which made me like it so much, its my favourite of the 3 studio albums.

[Invader Zim]

Also, I believe that SP's Siamese Dream wasn't until the early 90s or something, I may be wrong but if it was in the '90s then Nirvana didn't copy them.

Well I was actually thinking of the pioneer grunge bands, most of whome never made it bid, however there are some which did like Soundgarden, who insidentally were around before Nirvana.

[The Forum Idiot]

Erm....very few people consider SP grunge....But whatever, its a hard genre to classify...I wouldn't consider Soundgarden grunge...I mean, its like the band was grunge but the music wasn't IMPO. But yea, a lot of pioneering grunge (Tad, Mudhoney, L7) never got that far. Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Nirvana were the only real ones which got strong mainstream acceptance.

[Urban Rubble]

First off, goddamnit, I want to make one thing clear. This is the third or fourth time this has happened to me. I want to make it VERY CLEAR. I am NOT in agreement with most of what the Forum Idiot says. When we both argue the same point against the same person it seems as though we're teaming up, we're not. This kid pisses me off worse than the person I'm arguing with.

Enigma, Jesus man, calm down, I was fucking JOKING.


See above, and then sit down and think to your self, and try and understand how little I give a shit what you think.

Yeah, I was kidding. I don't really think it's going to ruin your day if I called you Enema.


You get a room full of indi kids and compair them, and I guarantee they wont all be dressed in the same kinds of stuff.

That's just not true. The indie kids might not be wearing the EXACT same thing, but just like punks, they'd all be dressed similarly. They'd be wearing weird sweaters, skin tight jeans (usually womens), maybe some gloves with the fingers cut off halfway, converse Chuck Taylors, a mop of dyed black hair lightly tossed over one eye and a cool skin tight T-shirt with some shitty band on it that they may or may not even like.

Yes, the indie scene is every bit as cookie cutter and trendy as the punk scene.


Hardly because indi is not remotly popular at the moment, there are only a couple of bands who have made it anywhere near huge popularity. This is because indi music is not in trend at the moment, unlike grunge and punk which seam to be making a comeback at the moment with the rise of nu-metal. I don't know maybe its different in the US, but indie bands and labels are very rare in the UK, and the indie "kids" generally listen to bands which split up years ago.

I don't know what it's like in England, but indie is fucking HUGE over here right now, especially in Seattle (where "indie" has been a trend for something like 20 YEARS). Shit bands like The Postal Service are having to schedule 2 nights in a row to play because their shows sell out, Bad Religion didn't even stop in Seattle this time around due to lack of interest. The little pop punk trend in America went out pretty quick. I mean, it's still somewhat trendy to be a "punk", but to say it's more popular than indie at the moment makes no sense.

And I don't know where you get that grunge (or punk for that matter) is making any sort of comeback. For one, "grunge" isn't, and has never been, a genre of music. Second, bands that sound like Nirvana and Soundgarden are not starting to get popular again, so I don't know where you get that.

And your comment about kids listening to bands that are split up seriously confused me. I'm not just taking a shot at you, I really have no idea what that meant, how it was relevant and how you think that punks don't do the same. Most punk kids that I know, if asked to list 5 of their favorite punk bands, would never list any band still together.


Just as an example there are over 500 members of my universities rock society, yet there are less than 20 members of the Indi society. Its difficult to be following a trend, which unfortunatly doesn't happen to be in trend at the moment.

I don't really know what these "societies" are, but I don't think the fact that more people are a member of one over the other says much. Maybe the indie one is newer ? Maybe the rock club covers indie rock as well ? Who knows and who really cares ?


Get over yourself first. It is the height of arrogance to think that I give a shit what you call me. You are just a name on a web page, I don't know you, I don't understand you, I live at least 3,000 miles away from you, and you think that calling me "Enema" will bother me? Jesus, you need to take a good look at what your saying.

Awwww, it's O.K baby, calm down.

You don't need to repeat over and over the fact that me calling you a name doesn't bother you. I didn't intend it to really bother you, it was a joke. And the fact that you've repeated twice that it doesn't bother you really makes it seem like that's the case.

And I've compeltely left out the point that if punk rock had never happened, there would be no indie rock.

[Invader Zim]

Enigma, Jesus man, calm down, I was fucking JOKING.

Your confused UR, I'm not remotly angry at you, I'm just telling you the way it is.

Yeah, I was kidding. I don't really think it's going to ruin your day if I called you Enema.

Glad to here it.

They'd be wearing weird sweaters, skin tight jeans (usually womens), maybe some gloves with the fingers cut off halfway, converse Chuck Taylors, a mop of dyed black hair lightly tossed over one eye and a cool skin tight T-shirt with some shitty band on it that they may or may not even like.

I take it this must be one of those differances between the UK and the USA, I have never seen any indie kid in the UK dress anything like that. Indie kids sometimes wear band t-shits of course, though not usually skin tight. In the UK people who wear skin tight t-shits are usually pop fans who spend to much time clubbing.

Shit bands like The Postal Service are having to schedule 2 nights in a row to play because their shows sell out, Bad Religion didn't even stop in Seattle this time around due to lack of interest. The little pop punk trend in America went out pretty quick. I mean, it's still somewhat trendy to be a "punk", but to say it's more popular than indie at the moment makes no sense.


I have never even heard of Postal service...

[ For one, "grunge" isn't, and has never been, a genre of music.

I don't know how you work that out considering that grung bands have been around over 20 years.

Second, bands that sound like Nirvana and Soundgarden are not starting to get popular again, so I don't know where you get that.

I disagree, dog shit like Nickleback came out and everyone dusted off their old Nirvana CD's.

And your comment about kids listening to bands that are split up seriously confused me.

Why?

how it was relevant and how you think that punks don't do the same.

I'm not saying they don't. I was trying (and clearly failing) to point out that British indie bands are not really around these days. You get the likes of the babyshambles, etc. But they aren't as numerous as say nu-metal bands.

I don't really know what these "societies" are,

Groups of people who have similar interests, they hire out pubs and stuff and play music they like, just socialising with people into the same stuff you are.

but I don't think the fact that more people are a member of one over the other says much.

It says a lot, it says that lots of people listen to heavy rock music at my university than indie rock.

Maybe the indie one is newer

It is, but it has been around a few years.

Maybe the rock club covers indie rock as well ?

It should do, in theory, however what they do play is shite like slipknot and stained.

Who knows and who really cares ?

Just because you don't give a rats ass about something you openly admit to having no understanding of doesn't mean other people dont.

Awwww, it's O.K baby, calm down.

Again, I was telling you the score, it was you who was behaving like a child.

You don't need to repeat over and over the fact that me calling you a name doesn't bother you.

I didn't suppose it would, I was just responding to your specific statements, and if they require a similar responce then that is what you shall recieve.

I didn't intend it to really bother you

Sarcasm and name calling tend to suggest the opposite. However I am sorry I got you wrong, and apologise for that error on my part.

And the fact that you've repeated twice that it doesn't bother you really makes it seem like that's the case.


It is not name calling which bothers me, its just I'm amazed that people think I will get upset about it or lose sleep over it. To be honest if I were to get upset over it I would not still be here after two years.

And I've compeltely left out the point that if punk rock had never happened, there would be no indie rock.

I don't have a problem with punk, I like punk, I have a problem with the kids who listen to busted, Mcfly, etc with no idea that it actually destorys the genre. I also have a problem with the older fans who try and wash their hands of bands they dont like, accusing them of not being real punk, when they clearly are. Like I said these people are a minority, but annoying just the same.

[seraphim]

Emo sucks except Jimmy Eat World they're cool

[seraphim]

And I've compeltely left out the point that if punk rock had never happened, there would be no indie rock.

We're it not for John Peel(R.I.P) there would be no punk.

[The Forum Idiot]

Heh, Busted/McFly etc are not punk, you can't hear any of the various tones of punk in their music, its more like Boyzone than Sex Pistols.

To UR: a) What the fuck have I ever done to you?

b) Grunge did happen, all the bands with a similar sound and attitude which categorized the genre.

c)grunge does keep coming back, shite like Nickleback and Puddle Of Mudd are popular and considered grunge (even though they are not), also every year or two they release something big to do with Nirvana (the box set now, the best of a couple years ago, etc.).

I've seen a couple indie kids dress like that in England but not many. Never heard of Postal Service either....

[Urban Rubble]

I take it this must be one of those differances between the UK and the USA, I have never seen any indie kid in the UK dress anything like that. Indie kids sometimes wear band t-shits of course, though not usually skin tight. In the UK people who wear skin tight t-shits are usually pop fans who spend to much time clubbing.

Either way, the fact is, indie kids are just like punk kids. They don't dress exactly the same, but put 10 of them in a room and you can guarentee they'll look similar. It's a problem with mindless trendy kids, NOT with any particular genre of music. That's all I was trying to say.


I have never even heard of Postal service...

Which was kind of my point. Indie bands that seem to be relatively obscure are actually more popular here than established punk acts like Bad Religion. Indie is alot more popular with American youths than punk rock.


I don't know how you work that out considering that grung bands have been around over 20 years.

And the Melvins or Mudhoney would laugh in your face if you tried to call them a grunge band. In fact, I've seen Mark Arm literally do that when some 30 year old dude told him Mudhoney was the best grunge band ever.

"Grunge" was just a way of classifying these rock/metal bands that came out of Seattle in the late 80's to early 90's. They were different than the typical metal bands because they didn't have huge hair and wear spandex, but musically they were quite diverse. A band like Dead Moon easily fell under punk, Nirvana's first album was metal, Screaming Trees were indie, Sunny Day Real Estate was emo, yet they were all called "grunge" because they came from the Northwest . There is no such thing as grunge.


I disagree, dog shit like Nickleback came out and everyone dusted off their old Nirvana CD's.

But alternative bands like Nickelback NEVER went away ! Bands like Silverchair, Bush and Pearl Jam maintained their popularity for the majority of the 90's. There is no "resurgence" because this shit never went away ! Sure, maybe Nickelback is selling a few more albums that Silverchair did in 98', but I don't understand how it could be called a resurgence when it never went away.


It says a lot, it says that lots of people listen to heavy rock music at my university than indie rock.

And how does that relate to our discussion of indie vs. punk rock ?


It is not name calling which bothers me, its just I'm amazed that people think I will get upset about it or lose sleep over it.

I don't think that. If I call someone a name like "douche bag" it isn't because I expect that to really hurt them and effect their day. No, I do it because I find it kind of funny (in a 6 year old kind of way), I do it when I'm not actually angry at the person I'm arguing with. If I was angry and trying to hurt someone I'd think of something more hurtful than "Enema".


I don't have a problem with punk, I like punk, I have a problem with the kids who listen to busted, Mcfly, etc with no idea that it actually destorys the genre. I also have a problem with the older fans who try and wash their hands of bands they dont like, accusing them of not being real punk, when they clearly are. Like I said these people are a minority, but annoying just the same.

But don't you understand that there is more to being a punk band than spiking your hair, putting on makeup and playing 3 simple chords ? It's MORE than that. Good Charlotte is a POP group. They are POP just like N'Sync, Creed, Nickelback, Sisqo, Shaggy or Destiny's Child. Sure, Shaggy sings in a Jamaican accent and has a reggae beat on the guitar, but can he be classified as a reggae artist ? No, he's a pop act, just like Busted or Mcfly are POP groups.

I don't wash my hands of bands I don't like. I don't like listening to the Casualties, but they ARE a punk band.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

sludgey

KILLING fucking JOKE

[Jesus Christ]

why dont you just listen to some real emo and stop being so ignorant

Dashboard and Taking Back Sunday and such are more than 3rd generation emo

original emo is emotional hardcore, look it up a little before you judge, and dont judge it on all those retards who write in livejournals and shit
stop being so ignorant

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 10 2005, 08:43 PM

And the Melvins or Mudhoney would laugh in your face if you tried to call them a grunge band. In fact, I've seen Mark Arm literally do that when some 30 year old dude told him Mudhoney was the best grunge band ever.

"Grunge" was just a way of classifying these rock/metal bands that came out of Seattle in the late 80's to early 90's. They were different than the typical metal bands because they didn't have huge hair and wear spandex, but musically they were quite diverse. A band like Dead Moon easily fell under punk, Nirvana's first album was metal, Screaming Trees were indie, Sunny Day Real Estate was emo, yet they were all called "grunge" because they came from the Northwest . There is no such thing as grunge.


I disagree, dog shit like Nickleback came out and everyone dusted off their old Nirvana CD's.

But alternative bands like Nickelback NEVER went away ! Bands like Silverchair, Bush and Pearl Jam maintained their popularity for the majority of the 90's. There is no "resurgence" because this shit never went away ! Sure, maybe Nickelback is selling a few more albums that Silverchair did in 98', but I don't understand how it could be called a resurgence when it never went away.
Grunge is about 18-20 years old, and started in around 86, 87 and 88 with bands like Soundgarden, Mudhoney and Tad. Oh, and Screaming Trees are not grunge. A lot of non-grunge bands often get called grunge, Hole, Screaming Trees, even Faith No More sometimes. But they aren't. Strip all of them away and you are left with a relatively clear genre. Mark Arm can say he's not grunge all he wants, if the music fits in the genre Mudhoney's still grunge. Also Silverchair rock so fuck you. And Pearl Jam.

[October Revolution]

Originally posted by Jesus [email protected] 10 2005, 10:14 PM
why dont you just listen to some real emo and stop being so ignorant

Dashboard and Taking Back Sunday and such are more than 3rd generation emo

original emo is emotional hardcore, look it up a little before you judge, and dont judge it on all those retards who write in livejournals and shit
stop being so ignorant
So are you talking about bands like at the drive thru or car park or butchers or whatever the hell they are called they are just as bad as the likes of Awful Charlotte and TBS. evil awful dull music. :angry:

[Urban Rubble]

Grunge is about 18-20 years old, and started in around 86, 87 and 88 with bands like Soundgarden, Mudhoney and Tad. Oh, and Screaming Trees are not grunge. A lot of non-grunge bands often get called grunge, Hole, Screaming Trees, even Faith No More sometimes. But they aren't. Strip all of them away and you are left with a relatively clear genre. Mark Arm can say he's not grunge all he wants, if the music fits in the genre Mudhoney's still grunge. Also Silverchair rock so fuck you. And Pearl Jam.

Listen kid, I've lived in Seattle my entire life, there is NO such thing as fucking "grunge".

You said it yourself right there: "A lot of non-grunge bands often get called grunge"

That's because any metal/punk bands that came out of the Northwest in the period from roughly 86 to 94 were labelled "grunge" by the media. Grunge was a term invented by Rolling Stone to define the new music scene coming out of Seattle/Olympia/Portland. What about K records or Kill Rock Stars ? Both were full of indie/punk/new wave bands, but they were still looked at as "grunge" labels ! Same with Sub Pop !

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GRUNGE.

I want you to explain what the "grunge" sound is. Why are bands SO totally different sounding (say, the Fastbacks and Tad) BOTH considered grunge bands ? I'll tell you, it's because grunge is a generic name for ANY rock/metal/punk/emo/indie/new wave bands that came out of the Northwest.

Again, what is the relation between Tad, Mudhoney, the Melvins, Sunny Day Real Estate and the Gits ? ALL of these got labelled as grunge, yet these bands fit into many different genres (straight up rock, punk rock, metal, emo and back to punk).

[Commie Rat]

oi rock fan dont datsuns n sterigram come from kiwiland?

there good

lets talk about good music ROCK not this emo-pop-puink-rock-wateverethehelluwantocallit

[Ian]

I was going to buy a datsun once, a 200B GX, for $1000. In the end I didnt.

[Kyoto Now]

emo is pretty pathetic, well what iv heard of it...what iv heard is basically crying about hardships (my girlfriends left me etc.) so i dont have any time for it

im much more into stuff like bad religion

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Kyoto [email protected] 17 2005, 01:05 PM
emo is pretty pathetic, well what iv heard of it...what iv heard is basically crying about hardships (my girlfriends left me etc.) so i dont have any time for it

im much more into stuff like bad religion
Coming from someone with a HIM avatar that is possibly the most hypocritical thing I have ever seen posted on che-lives/Revleft.

[Kyoto Now]

you cannot be tellin me u think HIM is emo!!

[BOZG]

No but that HIM are also very pathetic.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 05:40 PM
No but that HIM are also very pathetic.
you cannot be tellin me u think HIM is emo!!

No but that HIM are also very pathetic.

Couldn't have said it better my self.

HIM are dogshit.

[The Forum Idiot]

There's one HIM song I heard once which seemed ok. Hearded a few times more and I want HIM to get their voice box removed.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I dislike pop-punk and emo, with perhaps few exceptions. It seems to me that the popular shit, the stuff getting played ad nauseam on the radio now, is blurring the line between these lame sub-genres.

In regards to the argument about which sub-culture is "trendier" or more in sway of trends...

Yeah, all subcultures are basically the same. You have a handful of real artists, which can usually be distinguished because they are the most creative. Interestingly enough, these real talents are often harder to pigeonhole into the categories they create because they are so busy exploring other types of music.

The user Kyoto Now shares my love of Bad Religion. BR was one of the founders of the '80s hardcore punk scene in LA. Yet they cut a record in 1983 with synthesizer work on it, not considered a punk thing. Naturally, most punk purists absolutely hate that album. In recent years, their stuff has sounded more metal I think. And they have always had a pop sensibility, a harmony and melody that stereotypically tone-deaf punk is not supposed to have.

I do not know the indie scene in the UK, but my girlfriend is really into it here. I have been to a couple shows with her, and the indie crowd does have a typically homogenous look to it. It is a strange version of homogenous, in that people vary in appearance somewhat... but there is a clear and overriding common thread.

Indie kids (not all of them, of course) shop at thrift stores, and wear outlandish, so-uncool-it's-cool clothing. Outdated fashion trends, long since backlashed into oblivion, are resurrected and adored in the indie scene I have been exposed to.

The lemming-teens of the punk scene have a similarly singular fashion sense, it is just that the range of acceptable gear is as closed down physically as it is philosophically. To put it another way: Ten indie-lemmings may be wearing ten different outfits, but nine of them are following the same closed-down ethoes. Nine out of teen punk rawk-lemmings will also be following the same idea, only they all manage to look like a member of Rancid.

The goth subculture is probably the most closed down, with insistence on everything being black. At least the punk crowd has flexibility on color.

[Invader Zim]

The most famous Indie to have ever been on the British indie scene: -

http://www.enews.org/alves/_photosbig/morrissey.gif

Indie kids (not all of them, of course) shop at thrift stores, and wear outlandish, so-uncool-it's-cool clothing.

Really? I don't know what a "thrift store" is except when I want to get a mutual savings account.

[Ian]

Morissey has some fucked politics, I will find the link soon.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 09:54 PM
Morissey has some fucked politics, I will find the link soon.
He's also a complete asshole, with some fucked up oinions about a lot of stuff. Doesn't stop "This Charming Man" being the best song of the 80's.

[Urban Rubble]

Good post Marxist in Nebraska. That's what I was trying to say, but I'm too much of a dolt.

Thrift stores means used clothing stores. Here in the states we have these huge second hand clothing warehouses (Value Village, Salvation Army, Goodwill) where people take their used clothes. Indie kids LOVE shopping here because, like MIN said, you can find all that "wacky" so uncool it's cool type shit there.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 21 2005, 05:13 PM
Good post Marxist in Nebraska. That's what I was trying to say, but I'm too much of a dolt.

Thrift stores means used clothing stores. Here in the states we have these huge second hand clothing warehouses (Value Village, Salvation Army, Goodwill) where people take their used clothes. Indie kids LOVE shopping here because, like MIN said, you can find all that "wacky" so uncool it's cool type shit there.
Ahh charity shops... Yeah you get some people who shop in those.

[Eddie Van Halen]

I always though HIM were emo, just oh-so-goth at the same time.....kinda like gothicy-fied emo kids. But with less songs about dead pets.

[The Forum Idiot]

"goth-emo" has been happening a lot lately, HIM, The Rasmus, etc. Goths are ok, it seems because they are all wearing the same kinda stuff it is impossible to really make a "mistake" and wear something you thought was 'so uncool its cool" but wasn't which means they seem to be much more liberal in terms of personality...That's only my basic view of it...I have some gothic friends (who I've seen like...3 times) and they're good people, it ain't all "slit your wrists and death metal" ya know!

[whatLurks]

I agree that goths are okay. OKAY and I won't give it any more than that. Emo sucks on so many different levels but, I don't like conforming to one style period. I like experimental kinda stuff or people who do whatever the hell they feel like doing like Pigface and Rx.

[The Forum Idiot]

Goths are people and not just the Creepy Things That Like Either Post Punk Or Scary Metal so they vary from person to person, but of the goths I've met they're pretty good people.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 21 2005, 05:05 AM
Indie kids (not all of them, of course) shop at thrift stores, and wear outlandish, so-uncool-it's-cool clothing. Outdated fashion trends, long since backlashed into oblivion, are resurrected and adored in the indie scene I have been exposed to.

The lemming-teens of the punk scene have a similarly singular fashion sense, it is just that the range of acceptable gear is as closed down physically as it is philosophically. To put it another way: Ten indie-lemmings may be wearing ten different outfits, but nine of them are following the same closed-down ethoes. Nine out of teen punk rawk-lemmings will also be following the same idea, only they all manage to look like a member of Rancid.

The goth subculture is probably the most closed down, with insistence on everything being black. At least the punk crowd has flexibility on color.
Interesting tagent here. REALLY soon I will address this issue in a thread.

But what can I say here...

To add to the Indie stuff, I would include the phenomena of "vintage clothing" shops. Shops selling op shop (or thrift shop) clothing at a hiked price aimed at the indie (or revivalist rock) crowd. This sub-culture of all of them influences the mainstream the most, because it is the least outlandish. Look for example, at the faded jeans and mop trends in recent years...

It is a good point that you have raised about the closed ethoes. Though they are trying to be different, this difference is within the conformity of their sub-culture.

Once again however, it appears you don't know that much about goth culture. Of course most of their "look" is about black, but that is because it is a "dark" sub-culture, which does not neccessitate black. I have seen goths wear white, red, purple, blue, etc (as the main colour, not an accessory colour).

In a few weeks when I have time, I'll try to write up a thread on this.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Cthenthar,

YOU NONCONFORMISTS ARE ALL ALIKE!

Seriously, though...

I do not claim to be an expert on goth. I was not speaking to all of goth, and I did not mention the "artistic center" of goth. I will not speak to the artistic center of goth, because frankly I have no idea what it is. It is not a subculture I have ever been involved in.

If you clip my last paragraph from the post, you will be misquoting me. I established a tone of generalization early, and did my best to keep it constant. I was speaking to the "conformity of non-conformity" among trend chasers.

To go back to "Indie"-lemmings for a moment:

Thank you for mentioning the vintage stores. Those are the clothing stores for "Indie" kids with money. It is significantly more expensive than the thrift stores, and is considered the "high fashion" of the Indie-lemming crowd. Young people buy essentially the same things from thrift stores, only slightly "lower-classish" (fewer or less vibrant color, lesser fabrics, less detail, etc.) and often a bit faded or tatterred.

But back to "goth"-lemmings:

I was speaking to the crowd who buy T-shirts at Hot Topic. You know who I am talking about. The black t-shirt, with white print usually, with a sometimes violently anti-social message on it in a font so chaotic it appears to have been written by a psych ward patient.

[Freidenker]

I suppose I would fall under the emo thing. Or at least used to. I used to have the tight shirts and girl pants and was hit on often. Now I usually wear sweaters and a button down shirt underneath or olive shirts with khakis or jeans. I wear my girl jeans now and then.

Personally, I am, always will be a Bright Eyes fan. They're good, nice political undertones. No matter what anybody thinks, I'll always enjoy Conor Obersts music.

[rebelred]

Originally posted by Enigma+Jan 17 2005, 07:17 PM--> (Enigma @ Jan 17 2005, 07:17 PM)
[email protected] 17 2005, 05:40 PM
No but that HIM are also very pathetic.
you cannot be tellin me u think HIM is emo!!

No but that HIM are also very pathetic.

Couldn't have said it better my self.

HIM are dogshit.[/b]
right on

http://www.sugarinmytea.com/art/emoword.gif

[Hate Is Art]

Emo girls are hot.

[Urban Rubble]

The Emo Kid Basher (http://eightninethree.com/merchandise.php)

[The Forum Idiot]

Hi Urban Rubble.

[Commie Rat]

ha that pretty funny
i want one :D

[Ian]

I don't, seems lamer than emo to buy a stupid product coined as an 'emo-basher'.

[Ian]

kind of like a person i know who bought a 'belly button cleaner' which was just a cotton tip thing, just because it has some novelty value doesn't change the fact you're a sad case with too much money

[The Forum Idiot]

And a lot of people with too much money probably shouldn't be on this site. Not all rich people, just most.

[Commie Rat]

probably tru [ me being one of them] :P

[The Forum Idiot]

Indeed, so spend all your money on Kalishnikovs so the revolution may commence!

[praxis1966]

I know I'm a little late to the game here, but once I started hearing all this malarky about what punk is and isn't from people who don't know what they're talking about I couldn't help myself.

First of all, I hear what those of you who accuse punks of being cookie cutter are saying. For the most part you're right. But I know and awfull lot of skaters who listen to nothing but punk and ska-core who look nothing like that. Nevermind the fact that I consider myself a punk, and those of you who've seen my pic in the FF probably would never have guessed it. Before you guys get all amped up, though, I do realize that I'm the exception and not the rule.

Now, a list of bands that are not punk but commonly get called that by people who don't know any better (keep in mind this is by no means definative, just some examples):

Good Charlotte
Alien Ant Farm
Blink 182 (haven't been punk for nearly 10 years now)
Avril Lavigne
3 Doors Down
Sum 41
Hoobastank
Simple Plan
Switchfoot
The Velvet Underground (whom dumbasses usually credit with the invention of punk)

A list of bands that are, which most of you probably haven't heard of (save a couple of you). Go download some of these people, compare them to the bands above, and you be the judge:

Screeching Weesel
The Descendants
NOFX
Black Flag
Operation Ivey
SNFU
Generation X
Pennywise
Face to Face
Fugazi
Orange 9mm
The Misfits

[Invader Zim]

Well I have heard of, nearly all of the bands mentioned. I also don't think that Switchfoot have ever labled them selves as punk.

[TheKingOfMercy]

Punk Bands I like include these;

Dead Kennedys
Crass
Anti-Nowhere League
Sex Pistols
The Clash

Some other random 70's bands, I cant remember all the names right now, slighlty hung over :lol:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I listen to bit of punk, but don't dress stereotypically at all.
What are some indie bands?
Stuff like The Hives, Vines, Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, Libertines, etc. I don't care for very much. Is this the stuff you mean when you say "indie"?

[Commie Rat]

hehehe maybe

jus a question how much ar AK's?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 09:39 PM
I listen to bit of punk, but don't dress stereotypically at all.
What are some indie bands?
Stuff like The Hives, Vines, Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, Libertines, etc. I don't care for very much. Is this the stuff you mean when you say "indie"?
Some...

A lot of the elitest indie fans would ay that the last real indie band, with the inde sound were The Smiths.

A lot of people say that Starsailor are indie, aqualung, the babyshambles, etc.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 03:39 PM
I listen to bit of punk, but don't dress stereotypically at all.
What are some indie bands?
Stuff like The Hives, Vines, Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, Libertines, etc. I don't care for very much. Is this the stuff you mean when you say "indie"?
The list you've come up with, along with Modest Mouse and Death Cab for Cutie, account for the most commercial edge of "indie" music.

Most of the others I can think of are on Saddle Creek records, out of Omaha, Nebraska. Bands like Bright Eyes, Cursive, The Faint, Tilly and the Wall (actually on Team Love, owned by Bright Eyes' Conor Oberst), Azure Ray, Beep Beep, and until their last album came out, Rilo Kiley.

[Invader Zim]

Others include British Sea Power, the Unicorns, The Windmills, Lucksmiths, just too name a very few: -

http://www.pennyblackmusic.com/cgi-local/homepage.pl

Theoretically Feeder are an idie band, but I disagree, they are way too commercial, but albums like "Yesterday went too soon" have an indie sound to them.

Some Indie Records: -

Roughtrade
Domino Recordings
Echo
V2
Attack
Lizard King

However these are ones which carry big bands, which is why I've heard of them.

Roughtrade are really famous, because of the Libertines, The Smiths, etc. Domino have Franz Ferdinand, Feeder are on Echo, The steriophonics used too be on V2 i'm not sure if they still are, Morrisey is now on attack records.

[Hate Is Art]

I'm pretty sure Morrissey's "You Are The Quarry" album was out on Sanctuary.

The Libertines are the best indie band since the Smiths, they are the epitome of indie. The Manics were indie in style but no musically.

There are two type's of indie I think, Commercial Indie eg Feeder, Stereophonics etc

and Real Indie eg The Smiths, Belle & Sebastian, The Libertines, Adam Green etc

[Faceless]

This might seem a bit out of step but are "Joy Division" and "Iggy Pop" Emo?

[Nick Yves]

No, they aren't.

Jesus, some of you need to read up on music.

A few notes, since I'm late and no one is debating anymore:

- Emo sucks, except some "post emo"
- Pop punk and punk are very different, not only in music but in scene, considering PUNK ROCK (as a movement, etc) DIED IN THE 80's
- There is a difference between the TERM "indie" used for independent and the term "indie" used to describe how a band sounds, such as "indie rock" or "indie pop". Just because a band is on an independent (indie) label does NOT mean they are "indie". Indie can actually be considered a "sound" these days... same goes for vice versa, just because a band is on a major label doesn't mean they aren't still affiliated or have the "indie rock" sound, although they have abandoned their 'indie' roots.

Indie isn't nearly as trendy or played out as the whole punk/emo garbage.

Also, Praxis, you named a lot of bands that could be called punk or pop punk. Oh, and the Velvet Underground contributed a LOT to punk rock. Kids, know your history.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Nick [email protected] 1 2005, 10:28 PM
Indie isn't nearly as trendy or played out as the whole punk/emo garbage.

It isn't?? Damn you could have fooled me.

[Nick Yves]

Go to a suburb and tell me how many "indie kids" you see in comparison to the mass amount of brand name punkers and emo kids.

[Hobo87]

Emo was just another chance for corporations to exploit a scene and make as much money as they could off another corporate rock industry. With their tight shirts and womens pants and false emotions. It was just a way for bands to get money fast off of teenage girls who wanted someone to care for them but never did. The emo bands never really cared about their audiences besides a couple underground ones. Most of them just put on the show as if they really cared for them and went back to having sex with random groupie girls and not giving a damn about one of them.

[CamusforU]

I agree that Emo bands and screamo bands are awful, but who really cares? So many people get so militant over such silly things when there is really no need for it. If you like that music, you are a misguided fool, but its the life that you chose. If you don't like that music, congratulations, but there is no need to be assholes to those who have chosen to think of it as good music. Just do your thing and let other do their thing. Live and let live.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by Nick [email protected] 1 2005, 05:28 PM
No, they aren't.

Jesus, some of you need to read up on music.

A few notes, since I'm late and no one is debating anymore:

- Emo sucks, except some "post emo"
- Pop punk and punk are very different, not only in music but in scene, considering PUNK ROCK (as a movement, etc) DIED IN THE 80's
- There is a difference between the TERM "indie" used for independent and the term "indie" used to describe how a band sounds, such as "indie rock" or "indie pop". Just because a band is on an independent (indie) label does NOT mean they are "indie". Indie can actually be considered a "sound" these days... same goes for vice versa, just because a band is on a major label doesn't mean they aren't still affiliated or have the "indie rock" sound, although they have abandoned their 'indie' roots.

Indie isn't nearly as trendy or played out as the whole punk/emo garbage.

Also, Praxis, you named a lot of bands that could be called punk or pop punk. Oh, and the Velvet Underground contributed a LOT to punk rock. Kids, know your history.
Multiple things:

- I hate emo as well, so I am not going to disagree with you there.

- While I won't disagree with the assertion that Punk, as a movement, died in the 80's. I do take a bit of offense "as a sell described punk" to the first part of your statement. There is Pop and there is Punk, and never the twain shall meet, especially not with a hyphon. To describe a music as "pop punk" is an insult to real punk and any band who might fall into a category of such a fiction is simply a pop sell-out artist. It is my belief that when middle class suburban white kids start bands such as these, they do so with the express intent of making it more palable to their own mainstream taste, as well as the taste of potential listenership.

-You state your opinion as if it were fact. A very close friend of mine is an indie head, and coincidently ten years your senior, who has explained it to me differently. He claims that what defines an indie band is their record label status, not their musical style. For instance, Doctor Octagon is a hip-hop artist whom he describes as being indie despite the fact that he doesn't use clean tone guitars and silly lyrics.

-Your conclusion is exactly what aggrevates me about non-punk afficianodos, ie. punk rockers. As I've already explained, the term pop punk is an insult. Which, assuming for the sake of argument even exists, I personally do not believe any of them are. I am assuming you were referring to some of the "studio friendly" bands on the list like Pennywise and NOFX. However, there seeminly polished sound may have something to do with the fact that they are actual musicians as opposed to the hack-jobs, more commonly known as The Sex Pistols. Other than that, I am not even sure what you were talking about.

-As far as your implication that I don't know my history because of my statement about The Velvet Underground, you would do well to learn yours. The fact is, punk's musical roots, as a genre, are in ska, which the Velvet Underground was most certainly not. Furthermore, the roots of both the punk music genre and movement, are in a sort of nihilistic, hyphon everything etc. perspective. Therefore, even in the early days, I highly doubt that any self respecting punk would have admitted any debt to a band so closely affiliated with the artistic mouthpiece of corporate america, otherwise known as Andy Warhol. Know this, real punk is not and never will be written or played for a mainstream audience. Any band which does, in other words, appears on Mtv, is by definition not punk.

[Urban Rubble]

Go to a suburb and tell me how many "indie kids" you see in comparison to the mass amount of brand name punkers and emo kids.

I don't know where you live. But in Seattle the "indie kids" have outnumbered the punks for at least 10 years, probably more. Admittedly, Seattle was kind of the epicenter for indie rock for awhile, but still, if the rest of the country is even remotely like Seattle then indie kids are outnumbering punk kids.


- Pop punk and punk are very different, not only in music but in scene, considering PUNK ROCK (as a movement, etc) DIED IN THE 80's

Punk Rock did not die in the 80's, explain that one to me. There are still "real" punk bands out there, there is just alot of shit to wade through to find them. The punk movement may not be as strong, but to say it doesn't exist in the height of idiocy, especially when you make such an effort to come off like a pretentious music snob.


Indie isn't nearly as trendy or played out as the whole punk/emo garbage.

Why the correlation between punk and emo ? Emo is just as related to indie as it is to punk rock, more so if you ask me. Especially considering that many of the first "emo" bands are indie bands (Sunny Day Real Estate being one).


Oh, and the Velvet Underground contributed a LOT to punk rock. Kids, know your history.

Didn't we once have this very debate on here and come to the conclusion that the Velvet Underground had virtually no influence on the musical style of punk rock ? You are Jetgrind the fruitbooter correct ?

The Velvet Underground MAY have had an influence on the philosophy of the early punkers (though a very slight influence and praxis explained), but if you can explain to me what they had to do with the actual sound of punk rock I'll give you all the money I have in savings.




-You state your opinion as if it were fact. A very close friend of mine is an indie head, and coincidently ten years your senior, who has explained it to me differently. He claims that what defines an indie band is their record label status, not their musical style. For instance, Doctor Octagon is a hip-hop artist whom he describes as being indie despite the fact that he doesn't use clean tone guitars and silly lyrics.

That's what makes the term "indie" so arbitrary, confusing and downright stupid. Are you indie if you're on a independent label ? What if you have the indie "sound" but are on a major ? What about the original Emo bands who are now called indie ?

I think indie started out as a blanket statement to describe any "underground" band, and it was mostly used for "rock" artists. Slowly things progressed and an indie sound developed, but most people can't pinpoint what that sound is. I think the "indie sound" is just more straight up rock and roll, kind of "garage band" type stuff.

[Nick Yves]

Naw, a lot of it is lo-fi or high pitched.. and sometimes post-rock elements thrown into the mix. Also, I've never debated anyone here about the velvet underground or whatever.

So, tell me, if you guys are self-proclaimed punks, do you enjoy all the "me too!"s? Heh.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Nick [email protected] 2 2005, 09:46 PM
Go to a suburb and tell me how many "indie kids" you see in comparison to the mass amount of brand name punkers and emo kids.

So, tell me, if you guys are self-proclaimed punks, do you enjoy all the "me too!"s? Heh.
I live in a small city and the "indie" kids outnumber any punks by far. I doubt this trend is much different in suburbia as I've travelled through suburban and urban areas throughout the united states, gone to shows, music stores and other hangouts and see no real difference between those places and where I currently live.

As for the other statement about the "me too"s, I have no idea what that means.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 05:37 AM
The fact is, punk's musical roots, as a genre, are in ska, which the Velvet Underground was most certainly not.

While ska has no doubt influenced some punk, I disagree that the roots of punk lie solely in ska. This is especially true for many american punk bands. I hear no ska influence in say X, Black Flag, Bad Religion or Dead Kennedys not to mention the Ramones. Even if you go back to uk punk bands like the Damned don't seem to have any ska influence the same goes for many other early uk punk bands other than the Clash.

The MC5, Stooges, Dictators, New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders, The Sonics, these are some of the bands that influenced the punk sound.

[pockets6794]

good charlotte aint punk or emo....there pop

[Livetrueordie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 02:07 PM
good charlotte aint punk or emo....there pop
i agree, i like emo real emo not the capitalist money grubbers but the true emo bands. Pop music is disgusting

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The Velvet Underground was a huge influence in punk music.
The Velvet Underground incorporated the simple, minimalistic, and down to earth elements of sixties folk and added abbrassive and dissonant melodies and instrumentals. You tell me how that had nothing to do with punk music.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Livetrueordie+Feb 3 2005, 10:32 PM--> (Livetrueordie @ Feb 3 2005, 10:32 PM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 02:07 PM
good charlotte aint punk or emo....there pop
Pop music is disgusting [/b]
Now that is where you are wrong.

I keep hearing, and indeed have been guilty of this my self, people say pop music is bad. Some of it is, no doubt, but loads of it is great, the Beatles were pop, Oasis are pop, Blur are pop, Queen were pop. There are lots of great bands which are pop, just because lots of people like something doesn't make it bad, or even unorigional.

I think the "indie sound" is just more straight up rock and roll, kind of "garage band" type stuff.


It depends on where you are, if your talking about classic British indie it all stems from the likes of the Smiths.

Bands like Coldplay, Blur, Embrace, steriophonics are a popularised spin off of the indie scene.

For the record I have never heard any emo bands who sound anything like any kind of indie band.

Are you indie if you're on a independent label ?

No, you're an indie band if you play indie style music while being on an indie label.

So for example, while blur have a certain indie syle too their music and wrote a song called "charmless man" as a tribute to the song "This charming man" by the Smiths the definative indie band, they aren't indie, they are Brit pop.

Emo is just as related to indie as it is to punk rock, more so if you ask me.

Not really, especially if you listen to stuff like emocore.

Though I did once see some idiot label embrace as an emo band, when Embrace are nothing like emo.

Bands like Taking back sunday and dont sound remotly like any indie band i ever heard. They are supposedly emo...

Also Sunny Day Real Estate are not by any stretch of the imagination an indie band.

This isn't indie: -

http://www.oklahoma.net/~jlondon/48(original).mp3

Though it sounds better than some indie music I've heard... Ie The baby shambles, who to be honest don't sound so good.

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by celtopunk+Jan 6 2005, 12:18 AM--> (celtopunk @ Jan 6 2005, 12:18 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:03 AM

I suppose only bands like the exploited are 'real' punk, right?
No, they're just crap. [/b]
:angry:


[email protected] 6 2005, 12:03 AM

I suppose only bands like the exploited are 'real' punk, right?
To me, yes. However, they are usually reffered to as "Thrash Punk".

[Urban Rubble]

Enigma, I agree with you on Pop. Just because it's popular doesn't necessarily make it bad, though there it increases the chances greatly.

For example, Bob Marley is pop, but I love him. I like a little Oasis. I like Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, both pop. The White Stripes. Rancid.

However, some people look at pop as a style of music, you know, boy bands and Britney Spears, shit like that.


No, you're an indie band if you play indie style music while being on an indie label.

See, that's my point, for a long time people called any rock band that wasn't on a major label "indie".


Not really, especially if you listen to stuff like emocore.

Well Emocore has little to do with Emo (except for the *****ing and moaning nature of the lyrics) and everything to do with metal.

Have you heard much pre-metalcore Emo ? Otherwise known as "Real Emo" or simply "Emo". I'm not a fan, but to say it isn't closely related to indie is plain nutty. But then again, I'm sensing that there is a fairly large difference between what you Brits would call indie and emo and what we would.


Also Sunny Day Real Estate are not by any stretch of the imagination an indie band.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 10:41 PM
The Velvet Underground was a huge influence in punk music.
The Velvet Underground incorporated the simple, minimalistic, and down to earth elements of sixties folk and added abbrassive and dissonant melodies and instrumentals. You tell me how that had nothing to do with punk music.
Dude, if that's sarcasm you're an idiot. You're forgetting the similarities between punk and folk - built around the lyrics with simple sounds. And, to Urban Rubble, Get ya wallet out 'cause here goes nothing: The Velvet Underground influenced the sound (directly) of some punk such as Billy Bragg's heavier stuff, "Waiting For The Man" is kinda similar to many Clash songs, many of the lighter Post-Punk bands like Joy Division have clear sound influences. The bands most important to the early punk movement were New York Dolls, MC5, Iggy And The Stooges, The Velvet Underground and Patti Smith, oh and maybe early Black Sabbath or early AC/DC.

[Hate Is Art]

Emo shares a DIY mindset to Inide music. Doesn't share much musically though.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Dude, if that's sarcasm you're an idiot. You're forgetting the similarities between punk and folk - built around the lyrics with simple sounds.

Sarcasm?
Huh?
The point of my post was exactly to draw a comparsion between folk and punk, and the fact that the Velvet Underground was one of the first groups to add punk elements to folk music.

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by The Forum Idiot+Feb 5 2005, 06:13 AM--> (The Forum Idiot @ Feb 5 2005, 06:13 AM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 10:41 PM
The Velvet Underground was a huge influence in punk music.
The Velvet Underground incorporated the simple, minimalistic, and down to earth elements of sixties folk and added abbrassive and dissonant melodies and instrumentals. You tell me how that had nothing to do with punk music.
Dude, if that's sarcasm you're an idiot. You're forgetting the similarities between punk and folk - built around the lyrics with simple sounds. And, to Urban Rubble, Get ya wallet out 'cause here goes nothing: The Velvet Underground influenced the sound (directly) of some punk such as Billy Bragg's heavier stuff, "Waiting For The Man" is kinda similar to many Clash songs, many of the lighter Post-Punk bands like Joy Division have clear sound influences. The bands most important to the early punk movement were New York Dolls, MC5, Iggy And The Stooges, The Velvet Underground and Patti Smith, oh and maybe early Black Sabbath or early AC/DC. [/b]
Black Sabbath definately had a major influence on punk music.

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:46 PM

Dude, if that's sarcasm you're an idiot. You're forgetting the similarities between punk and folk - built around the lyrics with simple sounds.

Sarcasm?
Huh?
The point of my post was exactly to draw a comparsion between folk and punk, and the fact that the Velvet Underground was one of the first groups to add punk elements to folk music.
Ah, sorry, I hadn't had chance to read everything I missed so I just skimmed through and thought you were being sarcastic. My bad.

Yea, I figured the fact Paranoid was written in like 2 minutes was an influence.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 02:24 AM
I keep hearing, and indeed have been guilty of this my self, people say pop music is bad. Some of it is, no doubt, but loads of it is great, the Beatles were pop, Oasis are pop, Blur are pop, Queen were pop. There are lots of great bands which are pop, just because lots of people like something doesn't make it bad, or even unorigional.
What is exactly "pop"? Don't even dare to put Britney Spears and the Beatles on the same "genre" or I'll make you suffer.

"Pop", nowadays, sucks. I can't watch MTV for 5 minutes, there's always some Sum 41 wannabes, some stupid female singer or some crappy rap dumbass. Oh, yeah, all those "pop punk" bands are crap, as well as "nu metal". They all should be executed, as well as most "commercial" music nowadays. I have the feeling that something big might happen with music this year, since it sucks.

Oh, and all those "urban tribes" suck. Pseudo-anarchists pretending to be cool with their punky hair? Stupid goths dressed in black? "Heavy" nazi idiots? "rollingas" (a plague on my country)? cumbia-loving idiots (another local crap)? Hip hop "urban" "artists"? No, thanks

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)do+Feb 7 2005, 08:58 PM--> (El Infiltr(A)do @ Feb 7 2005, 08:58 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 02:24 AM
I keep hearing, and indeed have been guilty of this my self, people say pop music is bad. Some of it is, no doubt, but loads of it is great, the Beatles were pop, Oasis are pop, Blur are pop, Queen were pop. There are lots of great bands which are pop, just because lots of people like something doesn't make it bad, or even unorigional.
What is exactly "pop"? Don't even dare to put Britney Spears and the Beatles on the same "genre" or I'll make you suffer.

"Pop", nowadays, sucks. I can't watch MTV for 5 minutes, there's always some Sum 41 wannabes, some stupid female singer or some crappy rap dumbass. Oh, yeah, all those "pop punk" bands are crap, as well as "nu metal". They all should be executed, as well as most "commercial" music nowadays. I have the feeling that something big might happen with music this year, since it sucks.

Oh, and all those "urban tribes" suck. Pseudo-anarchists pretending to be cool with their punky hair? Stupid goths dressed in black? "Heavy" nazi idiots? "rollingas" (a plague on my country)? cumbia-loving idiots (another local crap)? Hip hop "urban" "artists"? No, thanks [/b]
pop just means popular, queen was popular in there time you know. But you seem to dis all music in that post so what so you lisen to?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I think he means top-40 hits when he says "pop".
Pop today certainly does suck pretty hardcore.

[Commie Rat]

here is what i think [ dont kick my ass if you dont agree]

} Urban {

R&B, Hiphop, rap ect ect [ Usher, Nelly. Cypress Hill]

} Rock {

Indie, Punk, oldschool, alternate rock,metal [ Rolling Stones, The Doors, Beatles, Ramones, Avengend Sevenfold ]

} Pop {

Single singer, boy/ girl bands, [ Brtieney spears, Nsync ]

} ALternate {

Techno, Nu-metal, opera anything else i havent mentiotioned up there /\ [ Linkin Park, Chemical Brothers, ect ]

[The Forum Idiot]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)do+Feb 7 2005, 08:58 PM--> (El Infiltr(A)do @ Feb 7 2005, 08:58 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 02:24 AM
I keep hearing, and indeed have been guilty of this my self, people say pop music is bad. Some of it is, no doubt, but loads of it is great, the Beatles were pop, Oasis are pop, Blur are pop, Queen were pop. There are lots of great bands which are pop, just because lots of people like something doesn't make it bad, or even unorigional.
What is exactly "pop"? Don't even dare to put Britney Spears and the Beatles on the same "genre" or I'll make you suffer.

"Pop", nowadays, sucks. I can't watch MTV for 5 minutes, there's always some Sum 41 wannabes, some stupid female singer or some crappy rap dumbass. Oh, yeah, all those "pop punk" bands are crap, as well as "nu metal". They all should be executed, as well as most "commercial" music nowadays. I have the feeling that something big might happen with music this year, since it sucks.

Oh, and all those "urban tribes" suck. Pseudo-anarchists pretending to be cool with their punky hair? Stupid goths dressed in black? "Heavy" nazi idiots? "rollingas" (a plague on my country)? cumbia-loving idiots (another local crap)? Hip hop "urban" "artists"? No, thanks [/b]
Dude, you can't say that any one genre is bad. While there have been no good Nu-Metal bands there have been plenty of decent songs (Slipknot - Wait And Bleed, Duality. Staind - Outside. Kittioe - Paperdoll). And did it ever cross your mind that these "pseudo-anarchists" might be real anarchists? Or does it just feel good to do the "latest thing" and think everyone's posers? Sometimes there is a good reason for commercial success, If lots of people like it have you ever thought that might just show its good? Huh? Have ya?

[Don't Change Your Name]

pop just means popular, queen was popular in there time you know. But you seem to dis all music in that post so what so you lisen to?

That would take me a while to post so I won't.


Dude, you can't say that any one genre is bad. While there have been no good Nu-Metal bands there have been plenty of decent songs (Slipknot - Wait And Bleed, Duality. Staind - Outside. Kittioe - Paperdoll).

I just took a chance to attack all those "labels" of stupid kids who try to get a "personality" since they are a bunch of depressed losers, so they pick up whatever they find ("goths", "emo", "cumbia", "rollingas", "punks", "heavies", "hip hop", "<whatever-those-DJs-kind-of-electronic-idiots-are-called>" whatever). I dislike most of their music anyway. How many "classics" did Slipknot came up with, for example?


And did it ever cross your mind that these "pseudo-anarchists" might be real anarchists?

Some are, not all of them. Some are there just because they like punk and thus they take up the "aesthetics", others just because they are posers, others because they are into the punk "ideology", and they all fight because one thinks punk rules because it&#39;s good, others becuase of the "attitude", and they are just "plastic anarchists" if anything (from an ideological point of view, I mean).


Or does it just feel good to do the "latest thing" and think everyone&#39;s posers?

Yeah, sure, I&#39;m an anti-posers poser. Don&#39;t make me laugh.


Sometimes there is a good reason for commercial success, If lots of people like it have you ever thought that might just show its good? Huh? Have ya?

No. This is part of the "eat shit&#33; millions of flies can&#39;t be wrong&#33;" nonsense. I don&#39;t buy it. Everything, from Elvis Presley, to Beatles&#39; pshychedelia, to LPs which feature a 44 minutes long prog rock song divided in 2 parts to fit the vynil (Jethro Tull&#39;s "Thick As A Brick"), to glam rock, to Metallica, to Limp Bizkit, to the mythological eclectic Zeppelin&#39;s hard rock, to "Never Mind The Bollocks", to The Police, to the Backstreet Boys, to Nirvana, to the awful hair metal bands like Motley Poo, to Radiohead, to disco, to any modern DJ, to cumbia crap, to Rolling Stones wannabes, to the Strokes, to Peter Gabriel&#39;s "world music" experiments, to Blink 182, to emo, to hardcore, everything sold in its moment. Does that make it all great? Should I listen to n&#39;sync because they achieved the same commercial success as some of my favourite bands like the Beatles? NO&#33;

Now this was a very long post, bye.

[anarchialibertad]

U know wuts EMO freaking KURT COBAIN.
THeir music is good dont get me wrong but him i just hate him.

The world is shit learn to deal with it. I just hate EMOtional idiots like him who commit suicid when their problems are miniscule compared to the jews in the consentration camps, and every single commarad who cant feed their family. U dont see them gettin their guns and shootin themselves, they fight against their problems and unlike cowards like Kurt Cobain.

EMO means emotional Punk. But who cares it sux anyways.

[Urban Rubble]

That was without a doubt the shittiest post I&#39;ve read all day. Congratulations, you&#39;re nearly retarted.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

seconded

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2004/2004-03/25-idol-simon-inside.jpg
that was absolutely dreadful&#33;

[Invader Zim]

I am froced to agree with both RZ and UR... at the same time. Something I thought would never happen.

Two things to take note on: -

A. At least make an effort to spell.

B. Get a clue.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

no you want real emo listen to bright eyes and check out morrissey.
until then dont dis emo

I :wub: conor oberst

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 06:31 PM
no you want real emo listen to bright eyes and check out morrissey.
until then dont dis emo

I :wub: conor oberst
Morrissey is not emo, never has been and never will be.

For a start his music doesn&#39;t sound like emo, and secondly his lyrics are not particularly emotional. He has half baked philosophical lyrics, not emotional ones about why he can&#39;t get laid.

[Anarcho-Communist]

Good Charlotte and Simple suck fucking shit
they arent punk

real punk is The Ramones, The Sex Pistols and The Clash

Did u know that Sid Vicious learnt the bass guitar the night before a concert&#33; (Sex Pistols)

Peace, Love, Empathy