The IMMEDIATE Future

[Paradox]

Ok, so our eventual goal is to destroy capitalism and create Communism, sounds great. But what is our immediate goal? "Spread the gospel" so to speak? The argument that Communism is like a religion has already been made, and it may be fitting. We have faith that "one day" things will change for the better. I'm sure that's true, but how will that happen? Most people here talk of revolution, a mass popular uprising to overthrow the system, and a few call for more peaceful methods, such as elections. Yet, as we know, revolution is not yet a viable option in the nations that are most powerful, such as the u.$. That being the case, what do we do now at this very moment? How do we create the conditions necessary to bring about a revolution that can succeed in destroying the capitalist system? And if elections are pointless, as has been argued here, then why have Socialist or Communist parties? Why do they exist, and why do members of those parties run for government positions if they will only fail and become corrupt as has been argued in other threads? Instead of these groups being parties and running in elections, perhaps they should be more like revolutionary organizations (though that may not be possible at the moment), seeing that they speak of revolution. I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but I'm just curious, what is our goal for tomorrow?

[NovelGentry]

We have faith that "one day" things will change for the better.

Some of us have a lot more than faith.


And if elections are pointless, as has been argued here, then why have Socialist or Communist parties?

Well there are certainly "parties" that are not strictly parties that work within the given system. RCP for example is a party, but it is strictly revolutionary. If what you're asking is why do the Socialist USA and Communist USA party try working within the system, my answer is that I don't know... and it wasn't my idea, nor do I have anything to do with these parties.


Instead of these groups being parties and running in elections, perhaps they should be more like revolutionary organizations (though that may not be possible at the moment), seeing that they speak of revolution. I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but I'm just curious, what is our goal for tomorrow?

Look at the GCP thread in Practice, and talk to Firefox if such ideas interest you.

I know you've asked a lot more questions here, and to be quite honest, right now I simply don't feel like answering them.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Paradox
I don't know, maybe I'm just impatient, but I'm just curious, what is our goal for tomorrow?

Speaking personally, I would be quite delighted if two things could be accomplished over the next five years or so (in the U.S.).

1. The emergence of a sustained anti-imperialist movement involving 100,000 people or more, engaged in various initiatives on a local level.

2. The simultaneous emergence of an overtly communist movement involving a few thousand people that was sharply demarcated from the Leninist tradition altogether; something that would effectively propagandize communist ideas in ordinary language.

I think those two things would be a "good beginning" for us.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[h&s]

Yet, as we know, revolution is not yet a viable option in the nations that are most powerful, such as the u.$.
Why not?


How do we create the conditions necessary to bring about a revolution that can succeed in destroying the capitalist system?
By spreading the truth about capitalism and wage-slavery.


And if elections are pointless, as has been argued here, then why have Socialist or Communist parties?
To spread communist ideas so that people can hear them (though others do not agree in doing this)

[Roses in the Hospital]

We need to spread our message and educate those who have yet to learn...

[Rockfan]

The problem is not those who have not learned but those who have. The system tells people communism is bad and what other choice do people have than to belive it. Anway I know about one guy my age (14) who gives a shit about politics. We have to make it seem more intresting and important.

[Questionauthority]

I think they way forward is to first start agreeing on more things. Look at any left wing forum and you will see arguments about numerous small things, or large ones depends upon your perspective. But more common ground should be found bewtween the left movements that are calling for a drastic change.....Once the movement is more united amongst itself then more drastic stuff is able to happen.

I think community based groups could also be useful, a positive way of bringing people to the cause..think some places like "Anarchists Cafes" get people in and "spread the word" etc....

Other than that marches always should be a presence..ie in the USA hope some people from RL will be there on inauguration day in protest, not just against bush but against the whole system

[Paradox]

RCP for example is a party, but it is strictly revolutionary

I've listened to a couple of talks by Bob Avakian at bobavakian.net and they were quite interesting. But what exactly does the RCP do that makes it "strictly revolutionary" and are they worthy of support? There's quite an argument about them, well mainly Bob Avakian in the learning thread. They support the idea of a vanguard and a leader, right? They claim it's necessary, but is it really?


I know you've asked a lot more questions here, and to be quite honest, right now I simply don't feel like answering them.

Well, I appreciate your honesty... and your humor. ;)


Speaking personally, I would be quite delighted if two things could be accomplished over the next five years or so (in the U.S.).

1. The emergence of a sustained anti-imperialist movement involving 100,000 people or more, engaged in various initiatives on a local level.

2. The simultaneous emergence of an overtly communist movement involving a few thousand people that was sharply demarcated from the Leninist tradition altogether; something that would effectively propagandize communist ideas in ordinary language.

I think those two things would be a "good beginning" for us.

Interesting ideas. Leninists, they support the idea of a vanguard too, right? Or I'm getting mixed up here? Does anyone here print-out and pass-out pamphlets on Communism, as a means of getting the word out? Is this an effective method of informing people on what Marxism and Communism really is? If we do that, or something similar, then we might just reach that 100,000 mark sometime in the next few years.


QUOTE
Yet, as we know, revolution is not yet a viable option in the nations that are most powerful, such as the u.$.


Why not?

Do you think the majority of people in the u.$. would support a Marxist revolution at this moment? Or that enough people would participate in the uprising that would insure its victory, in the u.$. or any other "first world" nation?


QUOTE
And if elections are pointless, as has been argued here, then why have Socialist or Communist parties?


To spread communist ideas so that people can hear them (though others do not agree in doing this)

Well, yeah, but I think it'd be better if they didn't call themselves "parties." And members of those parties shouldn't even try running in elections, since that won't work. I don't know, I mean if they talk of revolution, then why even try to run in elections, and why give the apperance of political parties that are against revolution?


Once the movement is more united amongst itself then more drastic stuff is able to happen.

That's actually quite true. It appears that just about everyone here agrees on Communism as the ultimate goal, but there are many views about how to actually get there. I'm inclined to side with those who call for revolution. I doubt elections can help bring about Socialism or Communism, I just don't see that happening. Still, given the divisions between us, what can we actually agree on? Marches and protests seem good to show support for certain ideas, but will that help us achieve our goal? Would it be a good idea to pass out information about Marxism at marches and protests? You don't think this would turn people off, make them think we were there for alterior motives? Community groups sound like a good idea. Perhaps Socialist and Communist "parties" should be more like that, involved in local communities. Or are they already like that? I don't know if there's Socialist group in the city where I live. I think I'll check, see what's it's like, if there is one.

[Rockfan]

I belive Questionauthority is right. And surely sectors of a country could be split of into different parts after a revolution for the different ideologies?

[Djehuti]

I wrote this in another thread:

/.../ "Anyway, you dont really have to talk about Marx, Lenin, communism, etc. I think its bether to go the other way around. Talk about their jobs and other every day issues, make them talk about all kinds of problems, their stupid boss, whatever.
Start that way. And after that, try to make them see the connection between their trubbles in every-day life and capitalism as a whole. Do not put forth the marxist terminology yet and start babbling about the profitquota and the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat and abstract utopian ideals, etc. But you can start a discussion on what they think they can do in every day life, on their jobs for example
to make their situation bether, and that these small struggles can be more effective if they work together with others in the same situations. I dare to say that all workers are practising some form of class struggle, however small, in their everyday life. You should make them understand this, and help them develop these struggles, go together with the other workers at their jobs, etc.

Now, they might start to understand that their struggle is not just some individual thing that have nothing to do with others or capitalism as a whole. Now it might be time to put forth Marx, or other marxist litterature....Iam not talking about the agitatory works like the Manifesto or other "proletarians! Rise! Revolution! Yahooo!"-kind of works. But simply texts that they can relate to, you might talk about what is written in Marx Capital, and why that knowledge can help them in their every day life. Soon they might realize that they are not fighting for just bether conditions, but against capitalism as a whole. Then it might be time to suggest the building of some kind of workers councils, at the workplace or in the neigbourhood, etc were councious workers meet and plan different kind of actions, still not like "Lets storm the White House", but more like trading experiences with eachother and plan for more advanced kind of struggles, like strikes, organized sabotage, theft, etc. It is easier to steal from your work place when you know that everyone is doing it, and no one will rat. It might also be time to expand the activity, out from the imidiate area (the workplace, the neighbourhood, etc)...

First now you should accually start to talk about communism, and explain that what they are doing, is accually practising communism. Communism is nothing about the Soviet Union, or some far away utopian ideal. Its about fighting capital, and that fight is mainly in every day struggles. Fighting capital is not about waving hammer and sickle flags and large demonstrations; its about all those small things. Communism is alot of small babies that will eventually develop into one large giant."

[NovelGentry]

I've listened to a couple of talks by Bob Avakian at bobavakian.net and they were quite interesting. But what exactly does the RCP do that makes it "strictly revolutionary" and are they worthy of support? There's quite an argument about them, well mainly Bob Avakian in the learning thread. They support the idea of a vanguard and a leader, right? They claim it's necessary, but is it really?

If you read that as an ad for the RCP it wasn't. I'm very skeptical of the RCP and what it's ideas would push us towards... maybe not so much the written ideas, but the unspoken ones. I was simply using it to show you that the term "party" doesn't automatically imply bourgeois politics.

To answer the question about being revolutionary though. I do firmly believe that a fair amount of the RCP is conscious, enough to register that they have revolutionary consciousness, and more to the point I think they are one of the few parties who promote revolution as they do, and that is as the only resort, with little quams about who they piss off or scare. On that issue they tell it like it is, and it appears the party line is to be out there at all costs when the time comes, and before then, be out there at all costs to make the time come as soon as possible.

My major gripes with the RCP are it's idea of how to go about this, and what I can only consider blind trust in everything Bob Avakian says.

To generally answer your question from earlier, I could just cop out and say "wait for my book." As this is a major portion of it, but I'll address some generalities first.

I think the first step is to attack the current institution verbally, written, etc. Destroy what premise people still have left that what currenty exists is meaningful or stable. Point out the hypocrisy and completely destroy peoples taste for it. I think this can actually be done rather fast if you avoid presenting it as a sale of something better. Simply attack. This can and should be done on a daily basis by all comrades, in many ways we do it here, but do it where other people who aren't currently communist are. Talk to people you meet wherever.

While this is happening we should make communism available, but not our sale. Be there if people want to know. Make pamphlets widely available, but don't sit there pushing them on people and handing them out. Make the people becoming fusturated and questioning come to you. Right now we sorta mash this all together and try to sell it as a package. We hand out pamphlets which focus on capitalisms flaws and some benefits of other systems, and they're plastered with a party line or at the very least the terms socialist or communist. Leave this off of it.... it's not that we don't want people knowing what we are, it's simply not necessary, and that's why it feels like they're being sold something. If they like the ideas and are interested in the alternative we have, then you can guide them towards communist literature, or attempt to educate them yourself, gradually progress the points and speak about socialism and communism naturally, as if the words carry nos stigma.

Once it would seem as though everyone is at the very least questioning what's currently there, THEN I think some physical action should become present. Organize physically against certain institutions, the WTO protests were seemingly good and showed a lot of people the nature of anti-political police brutality. I've always been fond of the idea of standing protests or demonstrations, where you simply don't leave until your point has hit enough people (or so you feel). If possible, actually try to destroy government institutions that represent what people are questioning.

Burning down a school isn't going to make you any friends, vandalizing a corrupt mayor or governor's home, office, or whatever very well might. Make a point to have your message get heard via the vandalism, this doesn't mean spraypaing hammer and sickles. One interesting thing to do is get a fast trying clear varnish and paste/glue flyers and things like that promoting the message to government officials cars, or even police cars. Done properly this won't even set off an alarm. Just think smart, start small and increase as consciousness grows. Promote similar actions to be taken by others.

At this point we may be ready for full out planting the SPECIFIC message. This means we increase the actual sale of communism. We make it a point to try and convince all the stragglers, even if it's a great mass of them. Organize as much as possible. I don't believe in parties, what I do believe in is local and community based organization... it makes the most sense because this is what we want focus on after. We want people to be able to work on that level in pure democracy, make it as much a point to maintain this as ever. There should be no power positions here, leaders, yes... there will always be leaders at the head of the pack that the rest are willing to follow, but if those people are not emphasizing these points and full on democracy it's our job to try and gain support against their tactics which oppose that.

Once you've organized and generally increased the full on communist education I think you have to begin cycling over some of the other physical things against. Try and get as much support as possible for a standing demonstration and see how numbers have grown.

Now you're ready for real action. TAKE the media. See a camera person interviewing someone. Well now they're interviewing you, whether they like it or not. Except they don't ask the questions, you just give the answers. Take a quarter or two, stick it in to buy those papers that "trust you to take one" -- remove the whole stack and replace it with printouts of literature and stick a ball of silly puddy on the back to stop it from closing all the way so anyone can take one, maybe even stick up a little stick it note that says "free, take one"

Get creative like that, but in general, wherever you see it possible to comandeer the bourgeois media, replace it with working class media. Get up early and replace newspapers on lawns and in mail boxes, etc... whatever. This can all be formulated out of the organization I was talking about before to make it easier and more possible to do.

Really it just grows like this, I won't get into detail anymore cause this is getting long, and once again I don't really feel like continuing. Let me just say that my other ideas follow along similar lines, they are creative, they just get progressively more focused along the way towards physical action and eventually physical overthrow of entire institutions. Throughout this bourgeois control will get tighter and tighter. Point it out all along the way using the means I've talked about here. Storm a school and go into as many classrooms as you can and start handing out information, talk to people straight out. ALWAYS try and actually avoid being jailed for this stuff, obviously... get out when you can while you can. It's better to make a small difference at first and be free to make a bunch of other small ones than to make a medium difference and be arrested and never be able to make one again.

The eventual goal is of course all out revolution... this is not something we should worry about. It will very simply happen out of civil disobedience when the people are there.

[bolshevik butcher]

The goal has to be to make our beliefs more well known, when most people hear about communism they think about Stalin, the USSR and China.