Narrow-Minded Dogmatists

[Counter-Corporate Jujitsu]

I have a problem with a few members on this board, whose aliases I will not mention, but you know who you are. You see, they believe that anyone who does fulfill a set of strict requirements is not "a real leftist". Often those that believe in: peaceful revolution, working within the system or religion are accused of not being leftists. All this serves to do is alienate more open-minded leftists and shrink the leftist movement even more.

In a thread discussing religion forumites accused me of believing in "superstition", and used "superstition" as a synonym for religion. Not only do I find this offensive, but it pushed me further in the direction of believing in religion.

Then there are the Marxists who believe that any communist that doesn't believe what Marx says is the equivalent of a heretic in Christianity. They call us 'Unscientific' or 'utopian'. Once more, I find this offensive, and I believe that these views only serve to destroy the leftist movement further.

Rethink your strategies.

[NovelGentry]

I would never say you're not leftist, I would certainly say you're not revolutionary. And to be quite frank, I'm not looking to appeal to non-revolutionary people. I want to see a day where people are conscious enough that when the time comes they are willing to fight and rise up for our ideals. Not people who are consistently telling others "Well maybe we can persuade them to write a law to protect our rights as workers." Capitalism itself infringes on the rights of workers, thus the only way to change that is to abolish capitalism. NO GOVERNMENT is going to reform itself to the point where it does not even resemble what it once was, which is what would be required. For example, the US Senate would never pass a law to abolish the US senate and put legislative power directly in the hands of the people.


In a thread discussing religion forumites accused me of believing in "superstition", and used "superstition" as a synonym for religion. Not only do I find this offensive, but it pushed me further in the direction of believing in religion.

Religion is superstition, as is blind faith.


Then there are the Marxists who believe that any communist that doesn't believe what Marx says is the equivalent of a heretic in Christianity. They call us 'Unscientific' or 'utopian'. Once more, I find this offensive, and I believe that these views only serve to destroy the leftist movement further.

I've been called a utopian BECAUSE I believe in what Marx says. What a lot of that really boils down to is interpretation of Marx. I don't take it to heart when someone says I'm misinterpreting Marx, because if they say that and I disagree then I believe THEY ARE. In the end that doesn't really matter, so long as communism happens.

As far as finding things offensive... that's your own personal issue. If you can't be strong enough in your beliefs to argue them to the death and fight for them to the death, then you're not really revolutionary. Once again, there's no problem with considering yourself "leftist" -- but if you're not conscious and willing enough to defend your ideas you're not really revolutionary (no matter what those ideas are).

[Counter-Corporate Jujitsu]

I defend my beliefs tooth and nail every day. I've written essays that I've handed in for school about and defending my idea and ideals. I've spoken in class and presented speeches about and defending what I beleive. Leftism and its defense has been a huge part of my life, and I don't intend to give that up. People say that I'm not a leftist [or in your case 'nonrevolutionary'] because I am willing to consider alternative methods to getting what I believe in rather than refusing to explore and blinding myself. Every educated persons' beliefs evolve. That's not being nonleftist, nor is it counterrevolutionary, nor is it even 'flip-flopping'. That's life. I'm different from many on this board because I remain open to suggestions, that I am willing to thoughtfully consider the arguments of others [or, alternatively, yell and scream].

I would also like to inquire as to how you got not being 'strong enough to defend your [my] beliefs to argue them to the death..." from finding some things offensive. I don't really understand that connection. I brought this up for discussion BECAUSE I believe this. I began this topic BECAUSE this is one of my beliefs.

[NovelGentry]

People say that I'm not a leftist [or in your case 'nonrevolutionary'] because I am willing to consider alternative methods to getting what I believe in rather than refusing to explore and blinding myself.

It's not a matter of alternative methods. It's a matter of us all having our own understanding of what it means to be revolutionary and what it means to be leftists, and what it means to be communist, and so on and so on. The point is, very simply, it doesn't matter. I've been called reactionary, ignorant, bourgeois, reformist, revisionist, etc. The most I can do about that is refute that I am, if people believe me, they'll belive me, if not, the most I can do more is refute it even more. In the end it's not my position to MAKE people see me this way, that's up to them. If someone will never accept me as a revolutionary communist then so be it, I know what I am, I know what I believe in.

If you want to end dogmatism stop making these labels such a big deal by *****ing about not being properly labelled. Fuck the label and stop pretending it even matters if some random guy on a message board says you're not leftist or you are.


I would also like to inquire as to how you got not being 'strong enough to defend your [my] beliefs to argue them to the death..." from finding some things offensive.

Well why are you sitting here telling everyone about it instead of simply refuting it where they laid claim that you weren't? Obviously you think you'll have a better chance convincing us through a pity case than if you sat on the thread where the guy said "you're not leftists" and explained to him why you believe you are.


I brought this up for discussion BECAUSE I believe this. I began this topic BECAUSE this is one of my beliefs.

Well if that is the case then you've made a horrible attempt at achieving your goal. You've cited NO examples of where someone said such things, you've told us little about what actually makes you leftist and only criticized our previous attitudes without explaining precisely what those attitudes derived from.


YOU SAID:


You see, they believe that anyone who does fulfill a set of strict requirements is not "a real leftist".

Well good for them... who cares about what they think?


All this serves to do is alienate more open-minded leftists and shrink the leftist movement even more.

The people who say these things know damn well what it does, and they do it because they'd rather have nothing to do with a person who believes such things. I'm not saying this is right or wrong... I believe to some level it is, if this were not the case we'd have to be accepting of all things no matter how anti-communist they be.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Counter-Corporate Jujitsu
Often those that believe in: peaceful revolution, working within the system, or religion are accused of not being leftists.

That's a little vague, but consider...

1. Those who argue for "peaceful revolution" often mean by that phrase that they expect to win a majority in a bourgeois parliament.

That's not going to happen.

2. Those who argue for "working within the system" are preparing the ideological groundwork for their own retreat back to capitalism.

That always happens.

3. A tiny proportion of people who are still superstitious are "morally sympathetic" to the left...though when a conflict arises between their superstition and their "leftism", they usually choose their superstition.

Most superstitious people have a generally reactionary point of view, of course...since superstition itself is reactionary.

Thus my general evaluation: they are not real leftists...though they may use some leftist terminology and manifest some sympathy for leftist goals (the ones that "don't go too far").


All this serves to do is alienate more open-minded leftists and shrink the leftist movement even more.

No, I think it "alienates" people who are not really determined to overthrow the existing social order.

Besides, to do otherwise would be lying to people...pretending a "tolerance" for crap that doesn't really exist.

Sooner or later, people would find out what communism really means...so why not let them know "up front"?


In a thread discussing religion forumites accused me of believing in "superstition", and used "superstition" as a synonym for religion. Not only do I find this offensive, but it pushed me further in the direction of believing in religion.

That's unfortunate...but if people are determined to wallow in that muck, calling it "champaign" is not going to change their opinions in a positive direction.


Then there are the Marxists who believe that any communist that doesn't believe what Marx says is the equivalent of a heretic in Christianity.

I'm a "heretic" myself. My advice is to ignore people who are superstitious about Marx. They are "bad communists".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas