The fine tuned free market machine.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Today, I can adjust:

1) Adjust lending interest rates and PREDICT the effect on the economy, home building, consumer optimisim, etc.

2) Taxes on specific business such as oil and PREDICT the ramaification through the economy. I can predict auto driving behavior based on increased price of gas.

3) Government spending on education and watch the impact on the job market years from now.

4) I watch a huricane disaster in Florida and Predict the increase in price of orange juice.

5) I can reduce the supply cycle in a factory and watch profits rise.

6) I can sell my home for below market value and watch my neighbors property value decrease.

The point? The free market economy is very well understood and so is the behavior or people in the market. Compared to Marxist ideas, I can not do the same.

[NovelGentry]

1) Adjust lending interest rates and PREDICT the effect on the economy, home building, consumer optimisim, etc.

Why does this really matter?


2) Taxes on specific business such as oil and PREDICT the ramaification through the economy. I can predict auto driving behavior based on increased price of gas.

Although not through taxes, you do the same under socialism by monitoring simply how much gas is coming in, which is effectively the same thing a lot of these taxes do. When the oil slows down, they increase taxes to curve wasteful use of gas, thereby avoiding a gas crisis like in '73 (if I recall correctly). Under communism, it simply won't matter... I'd be surprised if gas is used for anything then, or if it still exists.


3) Government spending on education and watch the impact on the job market years from now.

I'm not sure why this is a good thing, and once again, why does it really matter?


4) I watch a huricane disaster in Florida and Predict the increase in price of orange juice.

Same can be done in socialism. As production is slowed average social hour of labor on the product would increase. Once again, this doesn't really matter though. Have you ever gone to a store and had a product be out of stock? Did you rant and rave about the inabilities of capitalism. If not, there's no need to rant and rave about this as an inability of socialism and eventually communism.


5) I can reduce the supply cycle in a factory and watch profits rise.

and?


6) I can sell my home for below market value and watch my neighbors property value decrease.

GEE THANK GOD!


The point? The free market economy is very well understood and so is the behavior or people in the market. Compared to Marxist ideas, I can not do the same.

False, you can do the same, and you can do it a lot easier. Just because you don't know it's possible doesn't mean it's not. But some of the things you said don't matter under socialism/communism. Which is precisely why it simplifies it. Market value, interest rates, and money won't mean a damn thing, and there's no reason they should.

[h&s]

4) I watch a huricane disaster in Florida and Predict the increase in price of orange juice.


Beacause it really takes a genius to work that out... :rolleyes:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort
The free market economy is very well understood and so is the behavior or people in the market.

I hope you've submitted your resume to the Federal Reserve Board -- they will need a replacement for Alan Greenspan soon.

Meanwhile, you might ponder the fact that inspite of this claimed "understanding", neither bankers nor bourgeois economists can predict worth a damn.

It's a standing joke even in the profession itself; if you want a "state of the art" prediction, consult an astrologer -- he costs less than an economist and is just as reliable.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 04:15 PM
[quote]1) Adjust lending interest rates and PREDICT the effect on the economy, home building, consumer optimisim, etc.

Why does this really matter?



Because it is thoery and observation. I can directly watch and make predictions about the machine. I can make predictions about human behavior in the maket. I can model it and watch it.

You can't do the same with communism, yet so many people have such a religous belief that the theory works without any observation or modeling to verify the theory.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jan 1 2005, 09:19 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Jan 1 2005, 09:19 PM)
ahhh_money_is_comfort
The free market economy is very well understood and so is the behavior or people in the market.

I hope you've submitted your resume to the Federal Reserve Board -- they will need a replacement for Alan Greenspan soon.

Meanwhile, you might ponder the fact that inspite of this claimed "understanding", neither bankers nor bourgeois economists can predict worth a damn.

It's a standing joke even in the profession itself; if you want a "state of the art" prediction, consult an astrologer -- he costs less than an economist and is just as reliable.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas [/b]
Mr. Greenspan?

I'm not talking about predicting the stock market to make a killing.

I'm talking home lending rates, building, supply, and demand. Greenspan seems to hit that right on the nose. He seems to have throttled that portion of the market quite nicely based on his free market principles.

I'm talking about greed. Human behavior of greed driving the stock market is very well understood.

I'm talking about oil reserves. OPEC goes up, Bush releases reserves, price goes down as expected.

I'm motorcycle tarrifs. Protection of Harley Davidson until they become competitve again. Tax imports, people buy Harleys instead.

There are so many aspects of the free market that can be observed and verified. Not so for communism.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort
There are so many aspects of the free market that can be observed and verified.

Nope.

Try a Google search: economic + predictions + reliability.

Read 'em and weep.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 03:59 PM

1) Adjust lending interest rates and PREDICT the effect on the economy, home building, consumer optimisim, etc.


Its rather hard to predict in the economic anarchy of Capitalism, now with the global market.

[NovelGentry]

1) Adjust lending interest rates and PREDICT the effect on the economy, home building, consumer optimisim, etc.

You can't do the same with communism, yet so many people have such a religous belief that the theory works without any observation or modeling to verify the theory.

Again, why does this matter? Let me explain it better for you... under communism interests rates don't exist, thus they have not effect on the economy, whether they are adjusted or not... nor SHOULD they need to have an effect on the economy.

What makes you think home building will be in any way such a scarce occurance or possibility that it will be a problem? There are HUGE corporate offices that may have little to no use after the revolution, these cannot be converted to homes? What makes you think people will need home building and there won't already be enough homes? Even if not, why should such interest rates exist to CURVE home building? Under capitalism a high interest rate can change someone's decision to build a home or not... why should this be the case? What's wrong with just having your home built?

Consumer optimism... this is a good one, because consumer optimism really matters under communism. Consumer optimism makes a lot of sense when you're worried about profits. Take away profits and there's no reason to guage consumer optimism.

By the way, I just want to note that what you consider a "religious" belief is formulated from a number emprical sources. Once again we've shown you these in the past and you just ignore them. These attempts were not perfect, nor did they always represent EVERY ideal or aspect of communism, but they showed that much of it can and will work. On top of this we have this crazy thing called logic that helps us to realize something is possible without any proof what so ever. For example.. when humans saw birds they must have rightfully thought, well if those birds can do it, then we must be able to aswell. While not naturally (because it's obvious we're not built the same) the fact alone that they fly is proof that we too would be able to fly given that we had equivalent mechanical means (wings which adapted the same principles as theirs) and of course the energy to lift us off the ground.

If humans always believed very simply that NOTHING is possible if it's not already been done we would never progress forward. Why did we harness electricity and create the lightbulb? OBVIOUSLY IT SHOULDN'T HAVE WORKED SINCE IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE PAST. Sure LIGHT existed, but not in that form!!! WE MUST HAVE BEEN CRAZY! Give me a break and step into reality and human progress.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jan 2 2005, 09:23 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Jan 2 2005, 09:23 PM)
ahhh_money_is_comfort
There are so many aspects of the free market that can be observed and verified.

Nope.

Try a Google search: economic + predictions + reliability.

Read 'em and weep.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas [/b]
Which parts of the economy are you trying to predict?


Again every day I see the free market in action and human behavior in the free market.

Beatle blight in the forest? Opps. Lumber price goes up. House price goes up, sales are down. Federal reserve lowers interest. Home loans become cheaper, more homes are sold, ofsetting beatle blight.

Home interest rates go up .25%. Sales go down. Furniture sales go down.

Huricane in Florida. Orange crop damaged. Supply down, OJ price goes up.

Stock brokers greed. Buy high. Sell low. Lots of brokers buy one stock, supply goes down. Price goes up. Bad returns and earning, price goes low? Greed factor low? Mass sell off of stock. Price even goes lower.

OPEC goes up. Bush releases supplies. Price goes down. People take more car vacations.

I can say for sure I see these and the are repeatable. Another huricane? There goes not only the price of OJ but letuce too. Why letuce? Same reasons for OJ.

I have models for these behaviors in the economy. They work and they work over and over again. That is why I believe in a free market. I can see the micro models and small portions of the economy obey free market principles. No such example exist for communism. To believe in it would take a leap of religous like faith in the theory.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 09:25 PM
Its rather hard to predict in the economic anarchy of Capitalism, now with the global market.
AHH!

Anarchy does not mean chaos!

an-arch = no/without rulers

[Vinny Rafarino]

I have models for these behaviors in the economy.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who does not know that there is two "t's" in the word "lettuce" can have a "model" on anything at all.