Greek Anarchists Attack Police Station

[redstar2000]

Anarchists attack police station in Greece

Some 100 anarchists wearing hoods and helmets attacked the St. Panteleimonas police station in Athens. The rioters used stones, bricks, crowbars, flares and Molotov cocktails causing heavy damages to the entrance as well as the interior of the police station. According to eye witnesses the police started firing their handguns when they feared the anarchists would take over the police station. Two cops were lightly wounded. As the crowd retreated, 5 police cars where destroyed. Hours later a 29-year-old builder was arrested and a small axe was found on him, he was severely beaten sustaining a broken nose and a broken ankle. He is now facing felony charges.

The strike which was very well organised and successful even though the police station was on high alert the past few days expecting a probable attack. It was a direct action against police brutality. Non-governmental organisations had earlier accused police from the same precinct station of torturing Afghan immigrants.

More...

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/137391/index.php

:redstar2000:

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[Latifa]

Can't we just call them terrorists?

[PRC-UTE]

Who, Latifa?

[Latifa]

The ones causing the ruckus. OK, terrorist is a bit extreme. Sorry, misread the article.

[h&s]

http://nyc.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/11/1_fire.jpg
Smoked bacon anyone? :P
(Sorry, it just had to be done)

A question: was this a good or a bad thing? Does it make the left look like disreputable 'terrorists' (as they are bound to be portrayed as in the press), or do people actually benefit from this?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by h&[email protected] 30 2004, 02:11 PM
A question: was this a good or a bad thing?
Yes. Struggle against oppression requires people to take action. Class struggle is existing - right now! It is important to be defiant. The attack was against an establishment designed to protect the interests of capitalism and capitalists and was a direct result of police brutality. These comrades were justified to take action, in a local and a class struggle context.


Does it make the left look like disreputable 'terrorists'

Of course it does. Like you said, "they" own the media. They would never say that these people were taking action against an institution because it was corrupt and violent.

The task of the anarchists in Greece now is to highly publicise the real reasons for the attack and try and win the argument. It will be difficult, but it is an argument that has been won in the past.


or do people actually benefit from this?

It depends on who these "people" are. If you are talking about the working class as a whole, then no, it does not directly "help" them. But that was never the point of the attack.

I think it helps the people who are trying to fight in this struggle, if the publicity is handled well, which in turn could have a massive effect on the consciousness of people in Greece. This of course would be very beneficial to them.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by h&[email protected] 30 2004, 02:11 PM
A question: was this a good or a bad thing? Does it make the left look like disreputable 'terrorists' (as they are bound to be portrayed as in the press), or do people actually benefit from this?
I love it. It doesn't matter what we do, they make us look bad. This is a good example of anarchist direct action and organisations.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!
I love it.

Me too! :D

:redstar2000:

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[Kez]

"Yes. Struggle against oppression requires people to take action. Class struggle is existing - right now! It is important to be defiant. The attack was against an establishment designed to protect the interests of capitalism and capitalists and was a direct result of police brutality. These comrades were justified to take action, in a local and a class struggle context."

- Yes class struggle is existing, it has done so since the development of Capitalism
- Were they justified, well yes if you only look at it through the eyes of an ultra-left.
The point is revolution can only be won through the masses, not individual acts of terrorism such as this.

What are the results of this?
-More of an excuse to harden up police, increasing harrasement of workers organisations in greece, making it harder for the left to operate.
-This isolates the Radical Left, from the masses, as the press print out their usual filth of this hurting "hard working police officers with families" etc etc. We need to be more intergrated with the working class, to the extent we cant be distinguished, not by makin ourselves less like the working class and more isolated, which is what this action does.

"The task of the anarchists in Greece now is to highly publicise the real reasons for the attack and try and win the argument. It will be difficult, but it is an argument that has been won in the past."

-Surely this is too late? Surely it would have been better to win the masses over (to anarchism in this case) and then allow the workers to not only bring this single building down to the ground, but with the the state.
-The anarchist "press" is nothing compared to the capitalist propaganda machine, it is useless to compete, therefore the anarchists task REALLY was to win people over before such an act of individual terrorism.

"I think it helps the people who are trying to fight in this struggle, if the publicity is handled well, which in turn could have a massive effect on the consciousness of people in Greece. This of course would be very beneficial to them."

The publicity as has been stated cannot be "handled well" because it simply cant compete, it will have a net NEGATIVE effect of the masses against anarchism, and with it the socialist movement, which the press will try to conneect with.

We have to look at history to see the real solution, individual terrorism, or class action?

Look at Russia and the Narodnik movement, which used individual terrorism, this simply meant more reaction against the Narodniks, and as a result a fiercer structure to fight the unions and organisations.

Russian Marxism was born fighting against such ill-developed acts, and instead tried (successfully) to turn the action to getting workers and peasants as a whole to get involved in overthrowing the state.

"I love it. It doesn't matter what we do, they make us look bad. This is a good example of anarchist direct action and organisations. "
-I fail to see how this is good, is it the fact that the government can use these lot as an excuse to increase "security measures" which will enable the state to infiltrate, tap, sabotage to a greater extent the workers organisations? i dont think so.

But yes you are correct, it is a good example of anarchist direct action, and its naiveity.

[redstar2000]

You left out the "key" element in your "strategy", Kez. You should have advised the people who attacked that police station to join the Labour Party.

I'm sure they must have one in Greece. :lol:

:redstar2000:

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[Kez]

wasnt relevant to the argument, i suggest you attack the argument if you can, leave ur wit to your friends, if you have any

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 11:25 PM
"Yes. Struggle against oppression requires people to take action. Class struggle is existing - right now! It is important to be defiant. The attack was against an establishment designed to protect the interests of capitalism and capitalists and was a direct result of police brutality. These comrades were justified to take action, in a local and a class struggle context."

- Yes class struggle is existing, it has done so since the development of Capitalism
- Were they justified, well yes if you only look at it through the eyes of an ultra-left.
The point is revolution can only be won through the masses, not individual acts of terrorism such as this.

What are the results of this?
-More of an excuse to harden up police, increasing harrasement of workers organisations in greece, making it harder for the left to operate.
-This isolates the Radical Left, from the masses, as the press print out their usual filth of this hurting "hard working police officers with families" etc etc. We need to be more intergrated with the working class, to the extent we cant be distinguished, not by makin ourselves less like the working class and more isolated, which is what this action does.

"The task of the anarchists in Greece now is to highly publicise the real reasons for the attack and try and win the argument. It will be difficult, but it is an argument that has been won in the past."

-Surely this is too late? Surely it would have been better to win the masses over (to anarchism in this case) and then allow the workers to not only bring this single building down to the ground, but with the the state.
-The anarchist "press" is nothing compared to the capitalist propaganda machine, it is useless to compete, therefore the anarchists task REALLY was to win people over before such an act of individual terrorism.

"I think it helps the people who are trying to fight in this struggle, if the publicity is handled well, which in turn could have a massive effect on the consciousness of people in Greece. This of course would be very beneficial to them."

The publicity as has been stated cannot be "handled well" because it simply cant compete, it will have a net NEGATIVE effect of the masses against anarchism, and with it the socialist movement, which the press will try to conneect with.

We have to look at history to see the real solution, individual terrorism, or class action?

Look at Russia and the Narodnik movement, which used individual terrorism, this simply meant more reaction against the Narodniks, and as a result a fiercer structure to fight the unions and organisations.

Russian Marxism was born fighting against such ill-developed acts, and instead tried (successfully) to turn the action to getting workers and peasants as a whole to get involved in overthrowing the state.

"I love it. It doesn't matter what we do, they make us look bad. This is a good example of anarchist direct action and organisations. "
-I fail to see how this is good, is it the fact that the government can use these lot as an excuse to increase "security measures" which will enable the state to infiltrate, tap, sabotage to a greater extent the workers organisations? i dont think so.

But yes you are correct, it is a good example of anarchist direct action, and its naiveity.
Well...... I can't speak specifically about the situation in Greece(except that it sounds great!) but if a group of anarchists were to attack a police station on Vancouver's downtown east side, the locals would be extatic, and it would do a lot more to show resistance and gain support that any ammount of propaganda or chanting and sign-holding could.

That pretty much kills your whole argumant about such direct action sepparating us from the masses.

[Kez]

that is the worst argument ive ever seen on this board, congratulations.

You use anecdotal evidence to hold up one method against another, thats genius mate.

And what about when they do smash up the cop station? then what? will police brutality go away? will unemployment go away? will it win people to socialism?

no.

i suggest you think hard before replying again.

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 12:29 AM
1. And what about when they do smash up the cop station? then what?

2. will police brutality go away?

3. will unemployment go away?

4. will it win people to socialism?
1) Fascism will show it's ugly head, thereby hieghtening people's awareness.

2)No

3)No

4) Quite possibly.

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 01:56 AM
You left out the "key" element in your "strategy", Kez. You should have advised the people who attacked that police station to join the Labour Party.

I'm sure they must have one in Greece. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
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I suggest Kez to not only join the Labour party (I guess he's already a member anyway), but also the British ministry of propaganda (yes I know that it isn't existing...:P), he would be a good governmental agent with the job to agitate against leftist militant action and radical tendencies within the Left in general. :lol:

[PRC-UTE]

There's a lot of people around the globe kicking imperialist and capitalist ass. It's glorious and I hope it continues!

Banned Basque party's supporters clash with police (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30719400.htm)

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by Discarded Wobbly [email protected] 31 2004, 12:38 AM
1) Fascism will show it's ugly head, thereby hieghtening people's awareness.

It sounds pretty much like what the RAF tried in East Germany, but I dare to say that that theory proved false, and the RAF also realized that due time. The state did show its ufly head, but it did not have the effect that the RAF hoped for. This is an intresting discussion, and I would personally like to know more why that tactic failed, etc.
It might not be because of the violence in it self, I do not belive that. But maybe rather because the gap was to large between the working class and RAFs actions.

If the militans of the working class is like 3 on a scale fro 1 to ten, then the militans of the revolutionary avant-garde can be like 4 or 5, with some work this might inspire and bring forth the working class to a higher level of militans. But if we should use like Level 7 of militans, then we would just isolate our selfs and both us and the working class masses will suffer a defeat. Groups like the RAF used a much higher level of militans than the average german was even close to support, hence the RAF failed.

The greeks are generally more militant (at this time) then the people in most western-countries. And I think that there is a quite large support in greece for this kind of actions. Now Iam not saying that the majority of the working class in greece supports this level of militans, most probably thinks "stupid bloody anarchists!" but I do believe that a relatively large part of the working class do have understanding and in some extent even support for this action, specially amongst certain groups in the working class. And I do not belive that this action will affect the greek revolutionary movement negatively, but rather the opposite. In time the militans will grow among the more militant parts of the working class, and this might in turn affect the less militant part of the greek working class (most at the time) and bring them up in militans.

All my talk might be bullshit, I do not claim to have much knowledge about this.

[Edelweiss]

It sounds pretty much like what the RAF tried in East Germany

I guess you mean Western Germany, East Germany was the DDR/GDR!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The mere fact that Kez labels an attack on a police station an 'act of terrorism' puts his already flimsy leftism in serious doubt.

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 02:17 PM

It sounds pretty much like what the RAF tried in East Germany

I guess you mean Western Germany, East Germany was the DDR/GDR!
Indeed, that was ofcource what I meant. :)

[Kez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 02:38 PM
The mere fact that Kez labels an attack on a police station an 'act of terrorism' puts his already flimsy leftism in serious doubt.
well, the fact that you dont accept this term shows ur lack of knowledge mate.

This is a term used since when Lenin used it. Then again, i guess Lenin was a bit of a flimsy lefty really.

The point is this action did was not by the people, was by a little group.

Also, i like the way none of my arguments have been countered, just silly little remarks against myself. Good, i really dont care, just shows that people who do this dont have the integrity of ability to counter the argument, such as our dear Malte, i wudnt of minded about the jibe son, next time, attach an argument to it, wont make u look so childish then.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

well, the fact that you dont accept this term shows ur lack of knowledge mate.

Maybe you should look up the word 'terrorism'.


terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear [syn: act of terrorism, terrorist act]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


Notice that the word 'civilians' is bolded. Police are not civilians, they are government agents. this means the attack on the police station was not a terrorist attack.

How many people will it take Kez? do you think it's more acceptable to have the pigs torture refugees than to have anarchists take direct action against an instrument of state oppression?

Oh I forgot, a socialist nation needs police and other instruments of oppression, we can't have those silly anarchists saying and doing otherwise can we?
:rolleyes:

[Kez]

Well, the issue isnt the term terrorism, its what these acts are termed as by the workers who were trying to win over.

It doesnt matter what me or u think a terrorist is, its what the worker thinks, and after listening to the news he will think, terrorist, end of story mate.

In anycase, the police. Are they all scum? When theyre bootin u over the head with a baton, they fuckin well are, but at the end of the day are they not workers in uniform? do we not need to win them over? and the same with the army?

How many people will it take Kez?
-Mass of workers

do you think it's more acceptable to have the pigs torture refugees than to have anarchists take direct action against an instrument of state oppression?
-Nope. But that direct action is waste of resources, and isolates us from workers, so its not progressive thing to do.

Oh I forgot, a socialist nation needs police and other instruments of oppression, we can't have those silly anarchists saying and doing otherwise can we?
-ok.

Im still waitin for the main section of my argument to be debated over...

[Guerrilla22]

It was a strong statement on behalf on the left, that police brutality cannot and will not be tolerated. It also was a strong show on solidarity on behalf of these anarchist with Europe's immigrant population, which all too often is the victim of oppression.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Im still waitin for the main section of my argument to be debated over...

There is nothing for us to debate. You are quite clearly on the side of state oppression, anything you say in support of the workers are mere platitudes.

[Kez]

fine, but if you have an ounce of revolutionary ability you should be able to rip my argument apart if you believe what you believe, silly little statements such as that you just made were things i used to say when i was 15 and didnt know wtf i was talkin about.

"It was a strong statement on behalf on the left, that police brutality cannot and will not be tolerated. It also was a strong show on solidarity on behalf of these anarchist with Europe's immigrant population, which all too often is the victim of oppression."

- Well, on behalf of the Left, i hope not, i dont wanna be assosiated with actions which make me more isolated from the workers...let them do it on their own behalf.
- It was indeed a strong act of solidarity, which shows to a certain extent courage and integrity and conviction in their ideas, which is good. However, this act of solidarity will only lead to stronger police forces, and the cover for the state to smash up all Left organisations, which isnt what we need.
- What is needed is for the trade unions to take up the issue of immigration and push for equal rights for immigrants, so they dont get unnderpaid. This will increase the living standard of immigrants, and only smash the argument that immigrants are taking jobs, as equal rights means that immigrants wont be exploited. This is what i think is needed as a step demand.

[Postteen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 01:56 AM
You left out the "key" element in your "strategy", Kez. You should have advised the people who attacked that police station to join the Labour Party.

I'm sure they must have one in Greece. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
In Greece there is the communist party and various (leftish) parties which are not in the parliament.However the communist party(which got in the previous elections a nice 5.9%)is marxist and leninist.Anyway, I had no idea about the "event"but I wish I knew about it before it happened!

The police in greece is not as strict as it is in England but they still work for the government.I have to add though that many policemen went on a demonstration (against the government)to defend their rights.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Cm'n people keep the debate about real issues an not personal vendetta's.

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 06:41 PM
This is a term used since when Lenin used it. Then again, i guess Lenin was a bit of a flimsy lefty really.

The point is this action did was not by the people, was by a little group.
:lol:

And Leninism is different how?

Actually I believe the first use of the word "terrorism" was to describe the peasant revolt that led to the French revolution.

[Kez]

what you on about?

[BOZG]

He's not talking about the dictionary usage of 'terrorism' but what Lenin deemed as "individual terror", How hard is it to grasp that? But then, nearly everyone who's posted here has posted out of personal spite. Please grow up..

On what TAT said, your argument is based on "if's", which is all very good, theoretically. And if the publicity is handled wrong, it plays right into the state's hands as Kez outlined above.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

It really doesn't matter what you do. Even if you were to be the first true socialist prime minister, the media would still publicize against you.

You fear that the state will use this as an excuse to take measures against lefties. Indeed the state likes us, when we are quiet and once in a while walking our demonstration, casting our vote. But even then they would take their measures against us.

Edit: How are you so sure that there is little support for this in Greece? Gatherin 100 anarchists to attack a police station, must show that there is atleast quite some support in their hometown.

[BOZG]

The point is not whether the media is with you, but if the working class is with you. Like most anarchist articles, they tend not to actually discuss what sort of mandate to have for these attacks.

Secondly, from the little I've read on Greece, the Greek left in general has a lot of nationalist sympathies and this is even more apparent in Greek society. Defense of the immigrants is not a massive issue in Greece so the likely that such an attack has wide support is unlikely. Please correct me if I'm wrong though


Noxion,
Preferable learn the difference between individual and indiscriminate terror before opening your mouth.

Discarded Wobbly Pop,
Yet another ignorant belief that the vanguard is comprised of about 10 members.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 12:41 AM
On what TAT said, your argument is based on "if's", which is all very good, theoretically.
The entire class struggle is based on "if's."


And if the publicity is handled wrong, it plays right into the state's hands as Kez outlined above.

Name one example of class defiant methods which doesn't play into the states hands?

[Postteen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 11:36 AM
Secondly, from the little I've read on Greece, the Greek left in general has a lot of nationalist sympathies and this is even more apparent in Greek society. Defense of the immigrants is not a massive issue in Greece so the likely that such an attack has wide support is unlikely. Please correct me if I'm wrong though
I'm afraid that you are wrong, BOZG.Greek left has really no nationalist sympathies at all!Quite the contrary!I can guarantee that.Now if you're talking about greek society in general you're wrong again.The real nationalists (those who voted a bloody nationalist party) are the 2.7%of the greek population.It's not a small percentage though.

Concerning the defense of the immigrants and generally the problem of immigration, I have to say that you're wrong again because if you turn on the greek TV the only thing they're talking about is the Albanian immigrants.The media (and the 2 most powerful political parties)seem to support their permanent and legal living in Greece, however the most uneducated and illiterate people want them to go.That's normal I think.

The good thing in Greece is that if someone supports the right, they're believed to be betrayers(if that's the word for it).Even the government we have now, is a right-winger one, but they behave like center!Everyone wants to be progressive and left-winger-like in Greece.That's a fact.However, not communists,eh?They just support the Left.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Jan 3 2005, 03:08 PM--> (The Anarchist Tension @ Jan 3 2005, 03:08 PM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 12:41 AM
On what TAT said, your argument is based on "if's", which is all very good, theoretically.
The entire class struggle is based on "if's."


And if the publicity is handled wrong, it plays right into the state's hands as Kez outlined above.

Name one example of class defiant methods which doesn't play into the states hands? [/b]
There is a difference between 'ifs' based on the actions of a small group of people with no roots and 'ifs' based on an entire class.

[antieverything]

This is an act of guerrilla warfare--the purpose of which is to increase police oppression which is intended to, in turn, increase public discontent and to increase public support of the aims of the guerrilla forces.


The government has no alternative except to intensify its repression. The police networks, house searches, the arrest of suspects and innocent persons, and the closing off of streets make life in the city unbearable. The military dictatorship embarks on massive political persecution. Political assassinations and police terror become routine
...
The people refuse to collaborate with the government, and the general sentiment is that this government is unjust, incapable of solving problems, and that it resorts simply to the physical liquidation of its opponents. The political situation in the country is transformed into a military situation in which the "gorillas" appear more and more to be the ones responsible for violence, while the lives of the people grow worse. (Minimanual of the Urban Guerrilla--Carlos Marighella)
Guerrilla tactics, of course, should be judged by their effectiveness. Their record, at least in the example of Latin America (with which I am most familiar), is poor to say the least. Such tactics have historically been more likely to increase public support for the state and to be used as effective justification for further repression of dissent. Regardless of what would be the rational response, the vast majority of people are more scared of masked anarchists rampaging around than they are of police--even police repression. In Pinochet's Chile, for example, armed insurgents were largely responsible for the creation of a reactionary populace more interested in "security" than liberation. Perhaps there will be a time for such tactics--for instance when radical aims are shared by more than 4 or 5 percent of the population. That time is not now.

So, in short, I sympathize with these actions and cannot condemn them on ethical grounds especially since (due to a very interesting aspect of modern anarchism) no one was killed in the operation. But ethical justification does not an effective political action make. The only thing that matters, after all, is whether or not an action increases awareness of the issues at hand. I don't think, overall, this will have a positive effect.


I'm afraid that you are wrong, BOZG.Greek left has really no nationalist sympathies at all!Quite the contrary!I can guarantee that.Now if you're talking about greek society in general you're wrong again.The real nationalists (those who voted a bloody nationalist party) are the 2.7%of the greek population.It's not a small percentage though.
Actually, I've read the same thing about the Greek Left...perhaps some documentation is in order?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Preferable learn the difference between individual and indiscriminate terror before opening your mouth.

What's 'individual' or 'indiscriminate' about an attack on a police station? It was quite clearly an attack on an especially oppressive state institution, which under socialism would be implemented with gusto.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 12:25 AM
There is a difference between 'ifs' based on the actions of a small group of people with no roots and 'ifs' based on an entire class.
Do you know something about this anarchist group that we don't?

You're merely assuming, I presume because their anarchists, that they have no "roots" in the community. As far as I’m concerned you don't know that.

The issue of police brutality and racism had been an issue in that community for a long time. That particular incidence of police brutality had been highly publicised on national television and by non-government organisations.

[PRC-UTE]

I think it's not wrong to say that if this group had 100 anarchists (if that's accurate) willing to take violent action against the state, they must have some support. If there are 100 ready to fight, there must be several hundred more behind the scenes who are not as bold. That's been my experience in left organisations at least.

Good luck to them, as I said before there is resistance all over the globe and it's very encouraging!

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Kez
In anycase, the police. Are they all scum? When theyre bootin u over the head with a baton, they fuckin well are, but at the end of the day are they not workers in uniform? do we not need to win them over? and the same with the army?

Only in "Kez-land" are the police "workers in uniform". On earth, they are scum and will not be "won over" to anything except fascism.

When the Czarist autocracy was overthrown in 1917, the people who fought to defend it "to the bitter end" were...the police.

And in the first wave of Cuban refugees (1959-1960), the most common "occupational group" was...police.

As to the Greek army, it is an army of draftees who are not paid enough to live on and must depend on their families for support; I think that such an "army" would look with favor on revolutionary propaganda. But Greece is also in the process of developing a professional (mercenary) army...and, as with the police, it is most likely to be fascist in attitude.

Indeed, the "professionalization" of the military is going to be a major problem for revolutionaries in the coming decades.


What is needed is for the trade unions to take up the issue of immigration and push for equal rights for immigrants, so they dont get unnderpaid.

What is needed is for us all to move to "Kez-land" where things that don't exist on earth are always readily available.

Imagine...a trade union supporting equal rights for immigrants!

The mind boggles.


However, this...will only lead to stronger police forces, and the cover for the state to smash up all Left organisations, which isnt what we need.

He means here that he fears the Greek state will arrest Trotskyists.

His fears are groundless; it's well known by now that Trotskyists are not a "threat" to capitalism in Greece or anywhere else.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[antieverything]

think it's not wrong to say that if this group had 100 anarchists (if that's accurate) willing to take violent action against the state, they must have some support. If there are 100 ready to fight, there must be several hundred more behind the scenes who are not as bold. That's been my experience in left organisations at least.
Well my experience has lead me to believe that this is the act of a small group of fringe radicals which will probably do more harm than good...though the voice inside of me keeps saying "right on" :unsure:

[BOZG]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Jan 4 2005, 08:19 AM--> (The Anarchist Tension @ Jan 4 2005, 08:19 AM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 12:25 AM
There is a difference between 'ifs' based on the actions of a small group of people with no roots and 'ifs' based on an entire class.
Do you know something about this anarchist group that we don't?

You're merely assuming, I presume because their anarchists, that they have no "roots" in the community. As far as I’m concerned you don't know that.

The issue of police brutality and racism had been an issue in that community for a long time. That particular incidence of police brutality had been highly publicised on national television and by non-government organisations. [/b]
Well please prove to me the mass support that this incident received and I'll accept that I'm wrong. Media coverage does not constitute support, even if the majority of people were opposed to police brutality, which most people are.


His fears are groundless; it's well known by now that Trotskyists are not a "threat" to capitalism in Greece or anywhere else.

Because of course, anarchists are. Stop living in fantasy land.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 05:12 PM
Well please prove to me the mass support that this incident received and I'll accept that I'm wrong.
I don't know that they had "mass" support, but I don't think that's necessarily a prerequisite for this kind of action.


Media coverage does not constitute support, even if the majority of people were opposed to police brutality, which most people are.

I'm not claiming that it does constitute support, i'm just presenting you with facts. Many people might look at these anarchists and think "my god, these people are violent thugs," but that's nothing new. It's just something anarchists need to rectify.


Because of course, anarchists are. Stop living in fantasy land.

I would consider an attack on a police station by 100 activists a threat. I'm very certain they do.

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 09:36 AM
From the little I've read on Greece, the Greek left in general has a lot of nationalist sympathies and this is even more apparent in Greek society. Defense of the immigrants is not a massive issue in Greece so the likely that such an attack has wide support is unlikely. Please correct me if I'm wrong though

Fair enough, then I suppose your right in that they would need to spread the message world-wide rather than just in the particular community.

[pedro san pedro]

what typ of press has the action recieved since? how does the greek mainsteam feel about the action? have they been able to see the motivations for the attack and agree with them? or are the anarchists considered terrorists by the populus?

i cant see an action such as this gainer popular support - its way to harde to try to bring a complex message to the masses wen the medias focus going to be upon the violence. it is also very hard to communicate to people directly, as any spokes person is goning get themselves in a whole lotta legal kafuffles