Public Library Closes Indefinitely

[redstar2000]

Librarians have been worrying about it for the last decade at least.

Now it begins.


Salinas Public Library

The three Salinas Public Libraries will close for an indefinite period of time soon after January 1, 2005. These closures are part of the 9.2 million dollars in the service reductions incurred by the City of Salinas due to loss of revenues from the State of California, higher fees imposed by Monterey County, slower than expected economic recovery, and increased costs of employee health insurance and retirement benefits. Exact dates and details are to be determined.

http://www.salinas.lib.ca.us/library_news.html

There is no word yet on when and where the Salinas Ayn Rand Fan Club will be holding its celebration of this long-awaited breakthrough. But it's expected that "Arnold the Barbarian" will be the featured speaker.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[FatFreeMilk]

Yeah so not only that they're jacking up their fees in the rest of the existing libraries.

Fuck Arnold, I hope they throw eggs at him again. Among other things.

[Professor Moneybags]

A public library closes and you think it's the beginning of a dark age ?

Is this some sort of joke ?

How much have you given towards it ?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags
A public library closes and you think it's the beginning of a dark age?

How do you think "dark ages" begin?

A presidential press conference, perhaps?


Is this some sort of joke?

It is but a logical and straightforward consequence of your ideas.

But I don't hear anyone laughing.


How much have you given towards it?

Me? I am a user of the public library because I can't afford to buy books.

Fortunately, I don't live in the Randian paradise of Salinas, California...where "losers" will no longer be permitted to read books -- unless they steal them, of course.

And I know you will favor the harshest penalties for such "immorality".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Life is full of disappointments.

Get used to it.


You are under no obligation to stay here. If you dont like it, leave.

[Professor Moneybags]

How do you think "dark ages" begin?

A presidential press conference, perhaps?

They begin with looting and pillaging (see below), not by closing libraries funded by stolen cash.


It is but a logical and straightforward consequence of your ideas.

I'd accuse you of question begging, but that would be besides the point. Armed robbery is a "logical and straightforward consequence of your ideas", as is murder, as is rape (particularly gang rape- that's far more "democratic").


Me? I am a user of the public library because I can't afford to buy books.

So you use it, but don't think you should be expected to pay for it.


Fortunately, I don't live in the Randian paradise of Salinas, California...

Califorina is last place on Earth I'd call Randian.


where "losers" will no longer be permitted to read books -- unless they steal them, of course. And I know you will favor the harshest penalties for such "immorality".

Nothing wrong with stealing, huh ? I rest my case.

[Latifa]

You are under no obligation to stay here. If you dont like it, leave.
He was talking about the message board, not the whole damn country fuckwit.

[PRC-UTE]

Nothing wrong with stealing, huh ? I rest my case.

Stealing is how capitalism operates on a daily basis. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyway, he was making a deeper point; services shut down and the people are criminalised for seeking out another way to get what they need.


A public library closes and you think it's the beginning of a dark age?

The dark ages were when literacy was almost non-existent and libraries were systematically shut down (probably by your ancestors since you speak English). Meanwhile my ancestors were the sole light of Europe trying to educate you sorry Tuetons! :lol:

[FatFreeMilk]

A public library closes and you think it's the beginning of a dark age ?
It's actually the only three libraries in Salinas that are going to be shut down. So now what, where are the people supposed to get their books from? These people can't even have interlibrary exchanges because there's no more libraries to exchange with! Wow this really sucks for the people who relied on the library to get their read on. I'm sure it's gonna be a dark age for them.


Nothing wrong with stealing, huh ? I rest my case.
You had no case to begin with.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

NotWierdOnlyGifted - Fuck you.

Professor Moneybags, you are a total idiot if you think using taxpayers' money to build and maintain libraries is bad. Some people simply cannot afford books and closing down libraries will hurt them the most. Wait a minute, my mistake, they deserve not to have access to books because poor people are lazy people :rolleyes:

I suppose you'd rather they spent it on weapons?

[inquisitive_socialist]

Since when did keeping the american public uneducated, ignorant, and horribly gullible become something okay? how is closing a library anywhere okay? If people don't have acess (sp?) to knowledge and learning how could you expect them to make decisions, so ill-informed about the issues or the consequence?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NotWierdOnlyGifted - Fuck you.


How mature.


I only quoted Redstar2000.

[Professor Moneybags]

Stealing is how capitalism operates on a daily basis.

No it isn't. Property rights forbid stealing, although the socialist elements in society permit violations of those rights on a daily basis.


Anyway, he was making a deeper point; services shut down and the people are criminalised for seeking out another way to get what they need.

If it involved the initiation of force, then it is wrong. If people really wanted a public library, they could fund it privately- the state would then have no right to shut it down.


The dark ages were when literacy was almost non-existent and libraries were systematically shut down (probably by your ancestors since you speak English).

They weren't shut down, they were destroyed by looters.


Meanwhile my ancestors were the sole light of Europe trying to educate you sorry Tuetons! :lol:

Spare me the "racial pride" crap.

[Professor Moneybags]

Professor Moneybags, you are a total idiot if you think using taxpayers' money to build and maintain libraries is bad.

Unlike you, I don't evade the nature of taxation and the fact that force is used to aquire the funds. If people were really bothered, they could contribute voluntarily.

<snip the other nonsense>

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Unlike you, I am not a complete and utter selfish bell-end. I actually care about other people and not my wallet, you close-minded fuckwit.
I think you would think differently about social services if circumstances dictated that you had to use them. You better rethink your position if you want to live with yourself in future. Your job was outsourced to India? Oh no, that must mean you are a &#39;worthless parasite&#39;&#33;

I don&#39;t give a flying fuck whether this post constitutes an &#39;ad hominem&#39;, a &#39;non sequiter&#39; or any other debating nicety, because I&#39;m not debating you, I&#39;m flaming you for the worthless dollop of human waste that you are. I&#39;m sick to my teeth with all you selfish shitheads whinging everytime someone who deserves what they get gets it. "no fair&#33; If I didn&#39;t have to pay taxes to support public libraries, I could get a second DVD player&#33; nuts to all those people who can&#39;t afford a decent book because they didn&#39;t have the benefit of access to Daddy&#39;s bank account&#33; I want it, it&#39;s miiiiine&#33;"
Fuck off you pretentious piece of shit.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Spare me the "racial pride" crap.

Whoops, fuckface, there&#39;s no such thing as an Irish &#39;race&#39;&#33;

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You&#39;re a worthless cockhead with the debating skills of a stuffed iguana


Fuck you.



you close-minded fuckwit.




Fuck off you pretentious piece of shit.


Whoops, fuckface


Maybe you should calm down. :)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Maybe you should castrate yourself with a rusty breadknife, but like you said it&#39;s an imperfect world...

[Latifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:14 PM

Maybe you should calm down. :)
He has every right to be angry, you stupid twat. Fuck off.

[PRC-UTE]

NoXion beat me to it. There&#39;s no Irish race. It&#39;s the most laughable concept ever. We&#39;re such mutts. Everybody wants to get in bed with us. ;)

[Individual]

This post deleted -- spam.

[HankMorgan]

California has more than one problem.

I&#39;ll ignore the problem of their inability to set spending priorities and just concentrate on the larger problem. California has high taxes and raises tremendous revenue yet has a budget short fall because of even higher spending on primarily social programs. High taxes and high spending on social programs are not the fault of capitalism or capitalist. Those are socialist ideals.

Closed libraries are what happens when socialism is allowed to have its way.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

wanted a public library, they could fund it privately

Stroke of absolute genius&#33;
You haven&#39;t really thought these things through at more than a superficial level, have you?

The interests of the public at large, in this case, are in conflict with the interests of a minority who are monopolizing the means of knowledge. This minority - this propertied minority - rests on violence, and the initiation of force - to maintain this monopoly. As they expand this control, and more people are forced into illiteracy and ignorance, we enter a "dark age".

Duh.
(This is clever. Figure it out.)

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:02 PM
Whoops, fuckface, there&#39;s no such thing as an Irish &#39;race&#39;&#33;
Racism...nationalism...classism...who cares ? Same collectivist crap.

[Professor Moneybags]

Stroke of absolute genius&#33;
You haven&#39;t really thought these things through at more than a superficial level, have you?

What&#39;s wrong with funding public services privately ?


The interests of the public at large, in this case, are in conflict with the interests of a minority who are monopolizing the means of knowledge.

The interests of the mugger is in conflict with the victim who does not want to be mugged. What&#39;s your point ?

If I buy a book, it&#39;s mine, not yours. If you buy a book, it&#39;s yours and not mine. It&#39;s not in the public&#39;s interest to be robbed to pay for a particular service. If it was in the public&#39;s interest, then why can&#39;t they pay for it privately ? Are you suggesting that the public does not act in it&#39;s own interests and thus needs a dictatorship to tell them what is/isn&#39;t in their interest and to force them to comply ?


This minority - this propertied minority

Only a tiny minority can afford to own books ? :rolleyes:


- rests on violence, and the initiation of force - to maintain this monopoly.

Explain how force is being initiated. Am I initiating force by denying you acess to books that I have bought ?


As they expand this control, and more people are forced into illiteracy and ignorance, we enter a "dark age".

This is a red herring. We were talking about the morality of funding an institution by force, something which you believe is perfectly acceptable. This suggests that you would be willing to use force to achieve other ends too. Where that will lead doesn&#39;t take much working out, does it ?


Duh.
(This is clever. Figure it out.)

No, it&#39;s illogical, like the rest of your ideology.

[Professor Moneybags]

Unlike you, I am not a complete and utter selfish bell-end.

If I don&#39;t like being mugged by the mob/government, then I&#39;m selfish, am I ? You&#39;re right, I am. And proud of it.


I actually care about other people and not my wallet, you close-minded fuckwit.

Liar. If you cared about people and not your wallet, you have given everything you own to charity and you wouldn&#39;t be posting crap like this, you&#39;d be spending your every second helping others. I put myself as my own highest value, an expression that I own myself. What do you put as yours ? Or should I say, what do you pretend to ?


I think you would think differently about social services if circumstances dictated that you had to use them. You better rethink your position if you want to live with yourself in future.

Fantasy projections will not make me begin rationalising theft.


I don&#39;t give a flying fuck whether this post constitutes an &#39;ad hominem&#39;, a &#39;non sequiter&#39; or any other debating nicety, because I&#39;m not debating you

Just as well isn&#39;t it ?


I&#39;m sick to my teeth with all you selfish shitheads whinging everytime someone who deserves what they get gets it.

What are you talking about ? They don&#39;t deserve it; that&#39;s the whole point.


"no fair&#33; If I didn&#39;t have to pay taxes to support public libraries, I could get a second DVD player&#33; nuts to all those people who can&#39;t afford a decent book because they didn&#39;t have the benefit of access to Daddy&#39;s bank account&#33; I want it, it&#39;s miiiiine&#33;"

:lol: If the rich were stealing money from the poor, you&#39;d be screaming your head off over the "injustice". It would seem that taking money by force is okay by you, providing members of your pet group are the ones doing it.


Fuck off you pretentious piece of shit.

Again, if you cared about people and not your wallet, you have given everything you own to charity. The fact that you don&#39;t even live by your own so-called ethics suggests that the only "pretentious piece of shit", is you.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by HankMorgan
California has high taxes and raises tremendous revenue yet has a budget short fall because of even higher spending on primarily social programs.

Perhaps...if you consider police and prisons to be "social programs". If I&#39;m not mistaken, that&#39;s the fastest growing part of California&#39;s expenditures these days.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Zingu]

Please don&#39;t tell me about California, I live there. Our city government in San Diego is corrupt to the bone.


Various members of the city council were arrested for running rackets; and it just turned out they drained the city 5 million dollar "emergency" fund for lawyer expenses secertly, also the credit rating of the city government has been suspended as well&#33; :lol:

Well, its not funny...we&#39;re screwed.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

He has every right to be angry, you stupid twat. Fuck off.


Wooh, angry 13 year old? :rolleyes:


edit: Pardon. I checked you&#39;re profile. You just turned 14. Sorry :(

[NovelGentry]

So is there any good reason you don&#39;t post your birthday in your profile? Or is that just so you can discredit people based solely on age without any repercussions?

[commiecrusader]

Age is irrelevant NotWeirdOnlyGifted. Get off your fucking high-horse.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Get off your fucking high-horse.


I will, when he or she stop calling me "stupid twat". Maybe.


is there any good reason you don&#39;t post your birthday in your profile?

Is there any reason why I should?

[NovelGentry]

Is there any reason why I should?

Not really... I don&#39;t have mine posted. But then again, I don&#39;t go around using age as a means to discredit what one is saying. As someone else pointed out... he has a right to be angry, whether or not that entails swearing or not is not for us to decide. He&#39;s obviously upset with something you said. What does his age have anything to do with that?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I agree, age alone does not tell wether a person is immature or not. But it&#39;s an indication, and it is very common among people at that age to say things like that. It&#39;s a sign of immaturity. I guess he&#39;ll likely grow out of it, like most of us do.

It&#39;s uncreative and little stimulating to just reply "fuck you too, u idiot skumbag&#33;1", but I remember when I was in his age, a lot of people thought it was cool.

It&#39;s self-explanatory: When a person stop being immature, he won&#39;t be called a kid. But when he said "lolz, omfg u r so patetic", people will.

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 05:36 AM
The dark ages were when literacy was almost non-existent and libraries were systematically shut down (probably by your ancestors since you speak English). Meanwhile my ancestors were the sole light of Europe trying to educate you sorry Tuetons&#33; :lol:
You see PM?&#33;

This is what we have to look forward to, a bunch of monks hauled-up in shacks on mountain tops, as the leading beacon of civilization. :P

[Latifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 06:58 PM
I agree, age alone does not tell wether a person is immature or not. But it&#39;s an indication, and it is very common among people at that age to say things like that. It&#39;s a sign of immaturity. I guess he&#39;ll likely grow out of it, like most of us do.

It&#39;s uncreative and little stimulating to just reply "fuck you too, u idiot skumbag&#33;1", but I remember when I was in his age, a lot of people thought it was cool.

It&#39;s self-explanatory: When a person stop being immature, he won&#39;t be called a kid. But when he said "lolz, omfg u r so patetic", people will.
Righto. I wrote that in a stroke of anger. I&#39;ll now put my case rationally...

Gifted. I am sure you can be a really nice person, but at present you are acting like a stupid twat. Some of us are extremely irratated by your attitude.
Be nice.


Wooh, angry 13 year old?
This is the height of arrogance. What am I supposed to do, wait my whole life before expressing my views?


Pardon. I checked you&#39;re profile. You just turned 14. Sorry
I&#39;d prefer if you apologised for aggravating us.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Redstar is right it is the beginning of the dark age. The dark age is a time period in which many things were not well educated I guess.

But now back to the whole library thing. You see the whole POINT of a "public" library is so that the "public"(im really trying to place some empathy on public).
Its quite amazing where all the money goes doesnt it? In my high school we cant turn on all the lights in the hallways thats pretty fucking sad for the richest nation in the world isnt it? Tell me isnt that sad that these essential things for the mental growth of our youth cannot be fully supplied??

[Latifa]

You need to ask yourself if you need those lights.

[inquisitive_socialist]

HAS ANYONE ELSE REALIZED THE UTTER STUPIDITY OF THE STATEMENT" a library for the public, funded privately?&#33; once you fund a library and it becomes private it is a PRIVATE LIBRARY not a public one. are you retarded?&#33; To say that if people really cared about others they&#39;d give every thing they had to charity and spend all their time helping others is horseshit&#33; The way to help others is to get what you need to survive and advance yourself and give what you can to charaity. anyway how much do you give to charity you pompous piss-ant&#33;

**Warning the following text is really quite "flammable", read at your discretion**

You dumb fucking ****&#33; Do honestly expect to be able to talk down to people who OBVIOUSLY know more than you and then try and shut down some kid just because he pointed out that people disagree with you&#33; were you dropped on your head as a baby or were you born this dumb. you don&#39;t even know what your saying.You cock juggling thunder **** you have to be the most arrogant ass on earth&#33; I don&#39;t normally get angry about these sort of things because there just posts but god-damn&#33; you cum-sucking gutter-slut&#33; how dare you use age as an attempt to divert attention from you&#33; how dare you&#33; you have to think people are retarded not to see you as some sort of arrogant asshole. you horse-fucking cumbubbling halfwit&#33; if its a privately funded library, its a private goddamn library&#33; if people can&#39;t go to public libraries, they&#39;re denied the chance to learn what is available to them. The way you&#39;d want it everyone would have to buy a book to read it. thats sounds fine right? unless your homeless and need help. or poor, or in the prisons redstar is soo "fond" of. I bet you didn&#39;t know that did you halfwit, prison libraries are funded by ythe public. that means the GED program to help felons graduate high-school is also publicly funded. ewven the prisons are publicly funded. lets cut fundingto all of that and let the people pay for what they want. Yeah, you take a convicted serial killer and keep him in you basement to help or overburdened prison system. They&#39;d REALLY appreciate it. You talk too big for your own good. Your nothing but a gas-bag.your ten pounds of intellectual shit in a five pound bag. and i hate fake intellectuals no matter how small they are.

[NovelGentry]

No one expected the socialist inquisition.

[Professor Moneybags]

HAS ANYONE ELSE REALIZED THE UTTER STUPIDITY OF THE STATEMENT" a library for the public, funded privately?&#33;

Not necessarily, where do you think the money comes from to fund it publicly ?


once you fund a library and it becomes private it is a PRIVATE LIBRARY not a public one.

No it doesn&#39;t. If I give a donation to the NHS, for instance, I&#39;m making a donation, not buying a share in it.


To say that if people really cared about others they&#39;d give every thing they had to charity and spend all their time helping others is horseshit&#33;

It&#39;s true, actually.


The way to help others is to get what you need to survive and advance yourself and give what you can to charaity.

So who&#39;s stopping you from doing that ?


anyway how much do you give to charity you pompous piss-ant&#33;

That&#39;s an irrelevent issue.


You dumb fucking ****&#33; Do honestly expect to be able to talk down to people who OBVIOUSLY know more than you and then try and shut down some kid just because he pointed out that people disagree with you&#33; were you dropped on your head as a baby or were you born this dumb. you don&#39;t even know what your saying.You cock juggling thunder **** you have to be the most arrogant ass on earth&#33; I don&#39;t normally get angry about these sort of things because there just posts but god-damn&#33; you cum-sucking gutter-slut&#33; how dare you use age as an attempt to divert attention from you&#33; how dare you&#33; you have to think people are retarded not to see you as some sort of arrogant asshole. you horse-fucking cumbubbling halfwit&#33;

I don&#39;t recall mentioning anyone&#39;s age. You must be halucinating.

<snip the rest of the ad hominem/garbage>

[commiecrusader]

Not necessarily, where do you think the money comes from to fund it publicly ?
Not from a private shareholder. From taxes, and money from Councils and Governments.


No it doesn&#39;t. If I give a donation to the NHS, for instance, I&#39;m making a donation, not buying a share in it.
The NHS isn&#39;t a private company dumbass. Just because they accept donations doesn&#39;t make them private. They are a governmental organisation funded primarily by the government.


QUOTE
To say that if people really cared about others they&#39;d give every thing they had to charity and spend all their time helping others is horseshit&#33;



It&#39;s true, actually.
Exactly how is this true? Whilst I care about others, in a capitalist society I do need a certain amount of money to get by so I can&#39;t give all of it away.

[Professor Moneybags]

Not from a private shareholder. From taxes, and money from Councils and Governments.


The NHS isn&#39;t a private company dumbass. Just because they accept donations doesn&#39;t make them private. They are a governmental organisation funded primarily by the government.

:lol: Funded by the government, eh ?

I&#39;ll bet if someone asks you where milk comes from, your answer would be : "The fridge."

[PRC-UTE]

No one expected the socialist inquisition.

great python reference. Ten points to Gryfindor.

[inquisitive_socialist]

in fact you said NovelGentry idn&#39;t have a right to comment as he/she had just turned 14. thats age specific enough isn&#39;t it? You emply with your little fridge joke that the governments money comes from the peole, making all things government funded private. if this is the case than anything my taxes went to would give me a share of that institution. i could have a private wing at the hospital, my own classroom, and close part of the prisons . You know since they&#39;re privately funded with my money. oh wait is that not what you meant? cuz thats definately what you said. I guess your just a hypocrite. Oh&#33; thats right, none of your posts have an intelligent arguement in them. my bad.

[Professor Moneybags]

in fact you said NovelGentry idn&#39;t have a right to comment as he/she had just turned 14. thats age specific enough isn&#39;t it?

I said no such thing, nor did I mention anything about anyone&#39;s age.


You emply with your little fridge joke that the governments money comes from the peole, making all things government funded private.

Of course the money comes from people. Do you think the government picks it off trees ?


if this is the case than anything my taxes went to would give me a share of that institution.

What makes you think that just because the goverment takes from you, means it has to give you something in return ? Bearing in mind taxes are taken by force.


i could have a private wing at the hospital, my own classroom, and close part of the prisons . You know since they&#39;re privately funded with my money. oh wait is that not what you meant?

If you paid for it and those you dealt with agreed to it, then yes, you could. Apart from the prison, of course.

<snip the other stupid comments>

[inquisitive_socialist]

your right you didn&#39;t say it. NotWierdOnlyGifted did but its such a retarded and highly insipid comment i assumed only someone like you could have made it. You two must be close friends or something. Are you truly so naive as to think that the Government might agree to let me, or anyone elde not in their employ, control anything the government controlled? do you make stupid points like that to seem smart or to just prolong a moot arguement? let this one die, you&#39;ve pretty much lost it.

[Professor Moneybags]

your right you didn&#39;t say it. NotWierdOnlyGifted did but its such a retarded and highly insipid comment i assumed only someone like you could have made it.

How mature. This is supposed to be a debate, not a brawl.


You two must be close friends or something. Are you truly so naive as to think that the Government might agree to let me, or anyone elde not in their employ, control anything the government controlled?

I wasn&#39;t talking about control. I was talking about funding.


do you make stupid points like that to seem smart or to just prolong a moot arguement? let this one die, you&#39;ve pretty much lost it.

Who are you, the Iraqi information minister ?

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never&#33;"

:lol: Yeah, of course you&#39;ve won. :rolleyes: