Help Prove Cuba Is Better Off Under Castro

[American_Trotskyist]

A dumbass teacher and I always get in an argument and he won't accept that cuba has the highest standard of living in Latin America or that the live long than the US. I just need some statistics. So UN reports are good(But I did try that and gave him them and he said, seriously too, it was communist propaganda), Independent studies, ect, ect

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31627

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

www.sicubasi.org

Check that site comrade, I think you will find it very useful.

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

I find it hard debating that! Especially with all the Cuban people that have been so desperate to get out that theyve gone through the land mines and lost limbs etc. And that santa clara is so bad. The conditions there are not satisfactory if i was Fidel id sell that damn art collection and sort it out!! Che would never put material posessions before people, so neither should Fidel! I know that not everyone wants the same thing and people want more which could be y the Cubans are trying to reach USA of all places. And Uk and USA are worse in many ways!! Cuba is better off under Fidel, its just a tough thing to debate at times :)

[GlassDraggon]

You've got to remind yourself that it is not "the cubans" who want to reach American, it is the capitalist pigs who are finding it difficult to thrive in a nation that doesn't help them oppress and exploit people. As far as Cuba being better under Che. You have to remember that Fidel IS 78 years old and that he's still significantly more intelligent and compassionate than any U.S. leader in the history of the U.S. (not that it's saying much, but comparatively speaking...)

[fernando]

Everybody wants a better life, you dont have to be a capitalist pig for that ;) People see that people in the US can get rich because they work hard for it (that is what is shown to the world) so that appeals to them. You cannot call a Cuban who goes to the US in attempt to create a better life a "filthy capitalist pig"/traitor because of this I think.

Cuba is a Third World country, you've got to remember that, it is not the socialist paradise where everybody has whatever they want or can do whatever they want, people dont want to be poor, they want a better life, hence they leave Cuba. The US media however exploits this by saying that the Cubans are leaving because Castro/Cuba is such an evil person/place, which is partly true for some Cubans, but most of the Cubans who go to the US are economical refugees.

[(R)evolution of the mind]

The US media however exploits this by saying that the Cubans are leaving because Castro/Cuba is such an evil person/place, which is partly true for some Cubans, but most of the Cubans who go to the US are economical refugees.

Some months ago there was a document (sorry, don't remember the name) in the local telly on some Cubans living in New York, and most of them didn't seem all that happy on how hard you had to work to make even the basic living. Some even wanted to go back to Cuba.

[fernando]

I know...but when you live in a poor country and you see on the tv or whatever form of media about the US and Europe you see that those countries are prosperous and that people get rich by working hard. However when they get to those countries they will realise that most of the time this isnt true.

But the same happens here to people who live in rich countries, we get spoon fed that we have to work hard and then we will make a good living, study hard, work hard bla bla...and still not that much happens...the rich stay rich the poor stay poor <_<

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

I found this .... With a literacy rate estimated at 98 percent (well above the U.S. rate,) the Cuban people are highly educated and a hard working population, oozing with national pride that has little or nothing to do with politics. Contrary to U.S. media mythology, the majority of Cubans have no desire to leave their homeland, but rather they hope and pray for economic improvements.

[fernando]

Where did you find that? If we are to believe the CIA website (I know they are the enemy) Cuba has a literacy rate of 97%...and the US has something much or less equal to that.

This however still makes Cuba pretty impressive in that point...if you compare it to other Latin American countries.

[GlassDraggon]

I&#39;ve read similar stats showing that the vast majority of Cubans are happy with their lives in Cuba and have no desire whatsoever to move to America. The majority of Cuban "refugee&#39;s" are actually excriminals and the remnants of old large business owners who were exploiting the common worker but were shut down by Fidel when they refused to share the profits or increase wages.

I had also seen the teleivision program (a documentary I believe) which showed how poorly those Cuban "refugee&#39;s" were actually living the the States. Seems to me like the majority of those people are either criminals or they are simply greedy.

The statistic is 98% literacy rate according to U.N. studies and the U.S. literacy rate is something close to 96.5%. But before you go calling Cuba a "third world nation" you should look at the incredibly low infant mortality rate, the phenomenal life expectancy, and the relatively high standard of living. The only reason they don&#39;t bloom into one of the most successful nations in the world is because of the U.S. embargo and bullying against any nation wishing to trade with Cuba.

[fernando]

Where are the stats that the Cuban peopel are happy and that only a small group of "greedy capitalist pigs" are fleeing Cuba...give me that proof&#33;

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

read this ;) http://www.thinkandask.com/news/cuba.html

[fernando]

Thank you&#33; :D Proof is more convincing than just saying: "they are potentially the wealthiest nation on earth" :P

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

Yeah i know :P I had so much stuff saved i knew id read it just had trouble finding it again ;)

[fernando]

I found this article that Cuba found a vaccin for lung cancer...the thing that bugs me however is that this is the only source telling about it...I mean finding a vaccin like that would probably have world wide media interested right?

I lost the link..but it was the Cuban News site or something in those lines:

CUBAN VACCINE AGAINST LUNG CANCER
Clinical trial to begin in U.S. in 2005
• Batches to be manufactured at new plant constructed at the Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology Center

BY LILLIAM RIERA —Granma International staff writer—

• THE Cuban therapeutic vaccine against lung cancer is to move onto the clinical trials stage in the United States for its subsequent registration in that country, according to José Miyar Barruecos, secretary of the Council of State.

Lung cancer causes more than half a million deaths per year in the United States.

Developed in the Center for Molecular Immunology (CIM), one of the institutes within the West Havana Scientific Complex, the vaccine is based on the epidermal growth factor (EGF) – a protein closely related to cellular growth – and was submitted for clinical trials on the island with evident advantages for patients’ survival.

Inside the CIM’s modern laboratories, a total of 22 products are under investigation, including monoclonal antibodies such as CIMAher (used with promising results on brain and neck tumors, in combination with radiotherapy) and therapeutic vaccines for the treatment of cancer.

It was also announced that important investments in the center will allow scientists to cover national demand of CIMAher (registered in Cuba in 2002 and patented in 17 nations, including the U.S.) and begin exportation.

During a tour of various sections of the Center by Health Minister Dr. José Ramón Balaguer, it was also reported that a new plant has recently been constructed at the Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology Center (CIGB) specifically devoted to manufacturing the batches destined for the EGF vaccine’s clinical trial.

The plant, expected to begin production in the first trimester of the coming year, boasts state-of-the-art technology from the so-called First World.

On July 15 of this year in the Cuban capital, CIM and U.S. firm CancerVax Corporation in California signed an agreement – the first in 40 years – in the presence of President Fidel Castro, for the transference of biotechnological technology for the cooperative production of anti-cancer vaccines.

The fact that there is no tradition of South to North transference of technology – particularly in the field of biotechnology, was highlighted on that occasion by CIM director Dr. Agustin Lage, who recalled the contact between the Cancervax Corporation and this Cuban institution in 2001 when the island produced the first clinical results for its vaccine against lung cancer.

The CIM director also recalled that following this, Donald Morton, director and chief surgeon for the John Wayne Cancer Institute in Los Angeles visited Cuba and set in motion the contact process that, after more than three years of negotiations, resulted in the signing of the agreement.

Dr. Morton described the Cuban anti-cancer vaccines – designed to stimulate the immunological system – as a “unique and unprecedented discovery” during a video message sent to the participants at the signing of the agreement.

INGREDIENTS FOR ANTI-MENINGITIS, PNEUMONIA AND OTITIS TO BE PRODUCED

At the CIGB’s other new plant – in operation since August – technicians are producing the active pharmaceutical ingredients for the Cuban vaccine against Type B Hemophilus influenzae, a bacterium responsible for an significant percentage of meningitis, pneumonia and otitis cases, causing the deaths of half a million children worldwide.

The only one of its kind in the world to reach laboratory level, this vaccine – trade name Quimi-Hib – “will permit the country to save between two and three million dollars a year from imports used in the National Immunization Program,” Dr. Vicente Vérez Bencomo, the vaccine’s principal author, explained to Granma International in an interview in June 2003.

Capable of producing 10 million doses a year – enough to cover 100% of the country’s needs – this plant can increase its production fivefold to meet important exports for the World Health Organization.

Investments in technological equipment at CIGB have also favored an increase in the productive capacity and quality of interferons, both for national use and export.

It will also allow them to duplicate the volume of production of the compound vaccine against Hepatitis B (Heberbiovac HB). Next year, the center may well be able to manufacture close to six million infant doses, a figure that would present a great opportunity to supply other regions of the world with this medicament.

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

Wow, i didnt know that&#33; :s Yeah i wouldve thought so&#33;&#33;

[GlassDraggon]

U.S.&#39;ll probably claim it&#39;s their discovery :P

Sorry about the lack of sources, I just didn&#39;t feel like re-locating all of them. But if during a conversation you should hit the brick wall of the Cuban "refugees" remember to remind them that a significant portion of those "refugees" are ex cons and criminals that were basically thrown out of Cuba. Funny thing is, the U.S. is always more than willing to accept Cuba&#39;s murderers, rapists, and con artists- I guess they fit in better in Florida that way.

I also believe I heard something about Cuba taking worldwide initiative on AIDS treatment technology- can anyone elaborate?

[Severian]

The latest is that Cuba&#39;s infant mortality has fallen to 5.8 (per ten thousand?) . Lower than the U.S. A search should quickly turn up mainstream news articles about it. That&#39;s according to Cuban government statistics, which this guy probably won&#39;t accept.

The National Review of September 29, 1997, had an article titled "How Cuba Cured Aids" which praises the effectiveness of the Cuban public health system and refutes some of the false accusations about Cuba locking up AIDS patients, and even explains that the Cuban government&#39;s health statistics are accurate. Unfortunately it doesn&#39;t seem to be available online, but you might be able to find it in a library.

The National Review&#39;s somewhere to the right of God, so even a teacher who thinks the UN is communist might have to accept it.

[Sabrina]

I just need some statistics

Okay, so as far as getting the actual sources for these statistics, I&#39;m not sure where you can find them but maybe your local Cuban Embassy might be able to answer your question.

Anyway, I found the May Day speech that Fidel gave in 2003 absolutely informative. Now, because I trust Fidel, I&#39;m taking these statements as facts, but as I said, maybe some of them might be a little off (also this is one and a half years old), but it might give you a start of things to look for:

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/2003/ing/f010503i.html

I hope it helps.

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 05:53 PM
The latest is that Cuba&#39;s infant mortality has fallen to 5.8 (per ten thousand?) . Lower than the U.S. A search should quickly turn up mainstream news articles about it. That&#39;s according to Cuban government statistics, which this guy probably won&#39;t accept.


The National Review&#39;s somewhere to the right of God, so even a teacher who thinks the UN is communist might have to accept it.
The thing is that these kinda people want to see facts which do not only come from the Cuban government. They want either a pro western source (which they would call independent) or a totally independent source as well.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You have to remember that Fidel IS 78 years old and that he&#39;s still significantly more intelligent and compassionate than any U.S. leader in the history of the U.S. (not that it&#39;s saying much, but comparatively speaking...)


It doesn&#39;t mean anything, really.


All US presidents have been dickheads.



The latest is that Cuba&#39;s infant mortality has fallen to 5.8 (per ten thousand?) .


No. I believe it is measured by thousand, not ten thousand.

[NoiseUnited]

People have been critical of Castro&#39;s censorship of the media. This is a very common trait among Communist/Socialist societies. Is there any way to justify this? In this respect are not the American people better off, in which we are freely allowed to announce and display oppostion of political policy? I am ignorant of any specific cases of active censorship in Cuba, though it seems this pattern of dissention abolishment by Communist/Socialist societies have been debtrimental to it&#39;s own movement as well as it&#39;s people, in order to empower one person or an oligarchy. I think addressing this action of Cuban policies will prepare you to debunk or acknowledge such actions. I&#39;m interested in this subject of Com/Soc censorship as a whole, if anyone wants to inform me on this please send me a personal message. Thanks

[Kez]

"People have been critical of Castro&#39;s censorship of the media."
-First of call you should expose their hypocritical stance, and ask why they werent critical of censorship of US puppet governments media

"This is a very common trait among Communist/Socialist societies. Is there any way to justify this?"
-This is a trap stalinist states fall into, when theyre backed into a corner due to their lack of internationalism, instead of spreading socialism, to other countries, they are forced to in "socialism in one country" to defend against onslaugh after onslaught of capitalist attacks.

"In this respect are not the American people better off, in which we are freely allowed to announce and display oppostion of political policy?"
-Are they really? (See clampdowns on Indymedia)
-Who controls the media? the american worker or the american capitalist? Whose media is it?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I believe that according to both the UN and the CIA factbook, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate that the United States.