Socialism to stay in Cuba - wut do you think

[truthaddict11]

from what i heard cuba chose to stay with socialism and not return to capitalism. what is your opinion?

[maria11r]

i do believe that cuba should not give in to bush's threats. they should never return to capitalism. the cuban people have proven that they are strong and mighty, and therefore, no damned U$A should say what they need to do. People there have seen change, a good one, and they know that they have gained a lot... especially when you compare their situation to the kind of life that they had when bastista was in charge.
just like one of the pictures read in mundo obrero...
viva cuba!
viva fidel!
y la revolucion!!!

[revolutionary spirit]

Q. What about Cuba, Che, and Castro?

A. Over thirty years after his brutal death at the hands of the Bolivian, CIA backed, armed forces, Che Guevara's face remains one of the most recognised in the world. Posters of him adorn student's rooms, T-Shirts carry his likeness - he remains an icon not only in Latin America but throughout the West, especially amongst the youth. The Bolivian hatchetmen were so afraid of him that, after he had been shot, they cut off his hands so that they could prove that he was really dead and buried him in an unmarked grave under a motorway. They feared that even in death Che could be a focal point for revolution. The Cuban Revolution led by Castro and Guevara was undobtedly a progressive step forward for the working class of Latin America and the world. But what was the program of that movement? What was the social basis of that revolution? In order to understand the events in Cuba it is important to understand the role played by different classes in society, and the view of Marxism towards guerrillaism.

Cuba today is a deformed workers' state, a regime of Proletarian Bonapartism (Marxist term for Stalinism). This means that while the economy is nationalized and planned, it is not controlled democratically by the masses from below but rather, bureaucratically from above. In spite of the valiant fight of the Cuban people against imperialism, we need to take an objective look at the political and economic situation in order to come to a class-based, Marxist analysis.

Castro's was gathered together on a bourgeois democratic program and consisted in the main of agricultural workers, peasants and lumpen proletarian elements. Castro started off as a Bourgeois democrat with the United States as his model society (Abraham Lincoln was one of his personal heroes). The intervention of the working class took place when the struggle was in its final stage, when Castro was marching on Havana - the workers called a general strike in his assistance. The fall of Havana meant the collapse of the hated army and police of the Batista regime. Power was firmly in the hands of Castro's guerrillas.

The development of the regime towards the destruction of capitalism and landlordism did not take place as a result of a thought out, conscious process. On the contrary, it was the mistakes of American Imperialism which pushed Castro on the road of expropriation.

With 90% of the economy owned by American Capitalists, the American ruling class imposed on Cuba a blockade at a time when Castro was carrying out only bourgeois-democratic reforms. The monopolies which controlled Cuba opposed the taxes which Castro wished to impose in order to get the money for his reforms. Although these taxes were lower than the taxes they paid on the mainland, they furiously objected and appealed to Washington for support.

As a reprisal to the blockade, the Cuban regime seized American assets in Cuba. This meant that nine tenths of agriculture and industry was in the hands of the state, so the Cuban regime then proceeded to nationalise the remaining tenth. They had the model of Yugoslavia, China and Russia, and established a regime in that image. At no stage was there workers' democracy in Cuba. The Proletarian Bonapartism (Stalinism) of the regime is embodied in the rule of Castro and the meetings in the Square of the Revolution where the sole contribution of the masses is to say 'Si' to Castro's exhortations. Cuba has remained throughout, a one party state, without soviets and without genuine workers' control of industry or the state.

Consequently, more and more it has become bureaucratized. This was inevitable, given the isolation of the revolution and the way in which the revolution has developed. The workers' militia has been disarmed and differentiation between the bureaucrats - especially the higher bureaucrats - and the working class continues to develop. The development of a state apparatus above and independent of the masses is still going on.

The heroism of Guevara should not blind us to his theoretical bankruptcy. To endeavour to repeat in the countries of Latin America the policies of Castroism in Cuba, is to commit a crime against the international working class. The literature of Marxism is full of explanations as to the role of the different classes in Society: that of the proletariat, the peasantry, petty bourgeois and bourgeoisie. When he was murdered in Bolivia he was out in the middle of the jungle with a handful of peasant guerrillas. At the same time, the Bolivian working class was mobilizing in a massive movement in the cities. Genuine Marxists focus on the working class which is the only force on earth which can lead humanity to socialism.

This socialist consciousness is developed with the experience of the class and in its struggle for better conditions. Even here the party and leadership of the working class is needed. The peasants, the petit-bourgeois intellectuals and the lumpen proletariat can play no independent role. Where petit-bourgeois intellectuals and ex-Marxists organise the struggle on the basis of a peasant war, the level of consciousness, because of the nature of the struggle, can only be of a low character.

In spite of its deformities, the planned economy is an extremely progressive step forward which has allowed a quality of life better than most other parts of Latin America. Since the fall of the USSR, Cuba has struggled without the enormous amount of aid they used to receive. The lack of democracy and the scarcity of basic products (largely due to the criminal embargo decreed by US imperialism) has meant an increase in scepticism amongst the younger generation. The older generation remains largely loyal to the regime because they know how life was under the domination of the landlords and imperialism and if they look around to the neighbouring states they see a cruel reminder of what life would be like if capitalism were restored.

Socialists all over the world have the duty to defend the Cuban revolution against the attempts of US imperialism to destroy it, and also against the attempts of European capitalism to restore the rule of capital bit by bit. At the same time we have to explain that genuine socialism cannot be established unless there is real workers democracy and above all that socialism cannot be built in a single island. The best contribution we can make to defend the gains of the Cuban revolution is to fight for socialism in our own countries.

[Reuben]

what a pile of shit. Sorry RS. Who wrote it?


It is factually incorrect, there had always been an urban ressistance and an attempted aburn rebellion in the period of the revolution. Furthermore, even in the coutnry side there had been a proleatarianizationv of agriculturtal workers. Many workers experienced a capitalistic not feudal set of relations, and were employed directly by american companies


MOST IMPORTANTLY Guevaras understanding goes well beyond the simplistic analysis class functios displayed by this article. He argued that the process of revolution ties together the aspirations of the industrial proletariat and agrarian peasents. He realized and ACKNOWLEDGED that traditionally peasent aspirations tended t be very petty bourgoir, yet in the process of collective action and revolution the peasentr y realize that there goals can only be acheived through working co-operatively to institute agrarian reform and similarly the industrial would expropriate the means of industrial production.

Finally Cuba has neer simply tried to build socialism in one country, this is simply a stereotype, of a country percieved as stalinist. .

CUBA IS NOT PERFECT>. THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IS VERY WRONG. I simply do not like simplistic dogmatic aarticfles which treat so lightly the gains made by the Cuban people . You would think from reading that article that the peasents didnt know they were fighting for agrarian reform.

[Field Marshal]

http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/fa..._che_castro.asp (http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/faq/cuba_che_castro.asp)

There it is. Thanks for citing that RS.

[Borincano]

I want socialism to stay in Cuba, but I don't want it to try to reach Communism...which, in my opinion, won't ever happen.

I want Cuba to be democratic, and find ways to avoid American imperialism. Still, once Castro dies and his brother and other allies are assassinated by the CIA and the the ultra-right wing Cuban exile community, (Whom, to this day, still infect Puerto Rico.) there will be little hope for a Socialist or true Democratic Cuba. :(

[Revolution Hero]

People of Cuba have showed their support to socialism. The regime has to protect itslef from the capitalist agression now. Cuba has to have a strong army and good intelligence agencies of the state defense.

Borincano, the state doesn't try to reach communism. It is socialism , which evolves into communism.

[revolutionary spirit]

Hey don't be sorry Reuben you made some good points.

But I think the article holds some substance in that the workers' do not control Cuba and there is Proletarian Bonapartism.The Cuban revolution was not won by the workers[like in russia] or the peasants[like China] but more the middle class.Castro in 1959 would of rathered being the ally of America than the USSR.We should be opposed to Stalinism as much as the White House but not attempt to destroy it like they do with murderous blockades.Cuba does need alot of reform and until that day shouldn't be classed as a communist country.Castro and his little band of revolutionaries came down from the hills one sunny day and imposed ''communism''.Cuba- same shit,different smell.

(Edited by revolutionary spirit at 3:26 pm on June 29, 2002)

[Reuben]

I agree that there is no workers control over the means of production, indirect or direct, and that must be reformed, although I would disagree that the revolution was one by the middle class.

Peasent support was possibly most significant, and it was by no means simply a bourgoir political revolution even throughout the fighting. He had always espoused land reform, and consequently peasents joined and supported the revolutionary army. After the revolutionaries had landed and been ambushed they ha only 12 men, facing an army of 80,000. They could have had no chance whatsoever without the support of the masses. There was also vital mas urban support at the battle of Santaclara .

It could be argued that the vanguard of the revolution was middle class, but the same could be said about the Bolsheviks. Remember one of the leaders was Camilo Cienfuegos, wh was very poor and barely educated.

Castro and Che did not simply coime down from the hills and impose commuism. They fought for over 2 years agaist odds which would have been impossible had it not been for the support from the masses.

I do agree however that without workers control of the means of procution it is no where near the society that Marx invisaged. Although it may be compared to the first stage of socialism.

[revolutionary spirit]

They would of had no chane at all if Bastista didn't play into Castro's hands by being so oppressive to the peasants living in the Guerrilla's field of operations.

But Cienfuegos and all the others were always answerable to one man,Castro.One man leading what was meant to be a communist revolution?Castro was a bourgeois politician,even the Soviet Union of the time knew it.

You think a true communist revolution is going to be won of 2 years of fighting?OK here is a short quote i've taken out from the introduction of the Communist Manifesto,
''Marx also accepted their[French Radicals] view that the revolution would be short and sharp.Blanqui,the most famous French revolutionary,this in the words:'It takes twenty-four hours to make a revolution.'The great French revolution seemed to teach this''
Really the actions of Castro coming down from the hills in force imposed communism from the above and wasn't installed from the workers in one sharp revolutionary outburst.Also Castro only announced Cuba was a socialist country only after America said fuck you.

Maybe you could say it's the first stage but Socialism in third world countries will never progress beyond that stage until workers in MEDC's[More Economically Devolped Countries] break their chains.

[Reuben]

I actually agre with you on alot of points aboutCastro and realize that you are right that it cannot beimposed from above.

Regarding Castros intentions, is it possible that he himself became more conscious, it is too simplistic to say that he became a communist simply to spite America or to become freindly with the soviets. He already espoused an agenda of Agrarian collectivization (although his orthodox party was bourgoir democratic). When he visited Washington in May 1959, Nixon (then vice president refused him trade and decided he had to be overthrown BECAUSE he was a "communist" nnot the other way around.

But their was also agitation by communists from within the Rebel army following the revolution. I feel that the actions of Amercia may have made socialist/commi=unist elements more powerful, and also woken Castro up to the fact that the developement of the Cuban people and their sovereignty could only come about throguh direct confrontation with America.

The problem with the idea of MEDCs breaking the chains is that Marx did not predict the relationship between the first and thrid world proletariats. in the CM he said that bourgoir societies create an image of themselves, whereas in fact they create dependencies. THe effect is that many first world workers in some ways benefit from global capitalism. This may explain the lack of first world revolution.

I do agree with you on alot of points and you have opened my eyes in some ways to the manner in which socialism was instituted from above rather than enacted at the grass roots. I do however feel that there are many valuable aspects of the revolution .

[Red Revolution]

I think you are right. Castro chose communism because it was a good advasory to the Batista Regime. Also he probobaly wanted to rid Cuba of US thinking.
The US helped during Cuba's war of independence against the Spanish but then stayed there. The US kept tipping in money in to help pro US governments stop rebels until 1959 when they took matters directly into their own hands (bay of pigs). A commie govnment was installed in Cuba therefore stopping the growth of US influence in the carrabean.

[revolutionary spirit]

Thing about Castro is he uses any means possible as long as he can survive.In the early days he grew support from groups that were anti-communist and even had these links during the guerrilla campaign.He went to America first over to draw support for the revolution.Though they were cold to him so without major aid the revolution was done for so to the USSR for the bloodline to ensure Castro's reign at the top.

The guy may make a nice militant pose but it's power that is all he wants,to be visibliy as the front man leading the way.

Yes the counter revolutionaries.They lasted out to about 1965 didn't they?Well i think this is a show of what made up Castro's guerrilla army.These people were pro american and fought for castro just because they thought it would remove the tyrant of Basista and made more of bourgeois democracy.This is what Castro could of preached to them because maybe it's too what he wanted but as it turns out he was pushed to the East and these elements began a counter revolutionaries.

Yes but didn't mark make an understanding that society had to undergo a period of capitalism before turning to Scoialism.Many areas like in the third world are still under going Feudalism.You can't go from fuedialism-socialist and expect the same results which shows what's happend in Cuba.Or in Russia where they had just began Capitalism really or was in an early stage to then go to communism,look what happened with the USSR.Countries like Germany and Britain are ripe for revolution that would bring with it true socialism.

And I for that fact have found common ground with you and have been brought to light by some of your points.

[pastradamus]

Fuck america & its capitalist bulls**t.
Cuba beat capitilist opression with its bravery.
Im mean U'd want change too if u were a puppet of america in which they suck 85% of everything produced back into their own economy.

Communisn should be Cubas choice,its their country not americas.Its therefore their own choice.& as for that trade embargo well its just a way of showing how much of a rightwing state america is,Cuba would have an extremely fast growing economy if the embargo had not been placed.

The bay of pigs invasion was absouloute murder.It was the fault of the American govt for not sending air support as promised.I know all these guys wanted Cuba cappi again,but that was no way for them to die.

[PunkRawker677]

Most, if not all, of Cuba's aid during the intial revolutionary perod came from the people within the U.S. and people in Puerto Rico. I dont care what the history books will tell you because i have personally talked to scored of people who funded the revolution in New York and Havana. They would hold weekly dances in Puerto Rico to aid the revolution and the same was occuring in many parts of New York, additionaly, Small businessed were opened to find the revolution in Puerto Rico.

[ID2002]

Indeed the Cuban people are very happy to continue with socialism. I think most Cuban see the benifts of having such a political system. As for Fidel, most Cuban people I have talked to see him as an aging icon of the people. Sure, not everyone agrees 100% with Fidel all the time, and the state government knows it...no worries.
The Cuban people know exactly what will happen if the country looses socialism and a "revolutionary" mentality...cuban culture and its politcal sysytem will be disolved by George Bush Jr.'s capitalist empire. In short Cuba will become one large hotel industry. US will be in complete control.

...that would seriously SUCK!

Long live socialism!

[Borincano]

PunkRawker677,

I wouldn't consider Puerto Rico to be a huge factor in the Cuban revolution, but yes, the many socialist and Communist parties in PR at that time, did aid Fidel and his guerilla forces. Juan Mari Bras, a prominent communist in PR is still friends with Fidel and so is Senator Fernando Martín. Still, after the revolution, many Cuban bourgeoise came to PR, setting up shop and interfearing with our independence movement.

Although, the most prominent revolutionary during the Cuban Revolution in Puerto Rico, was Dr. Pedro Albizu Campos, and to my knowledge, I don't think he ever supported Socialism, but he did support self-determination of Latin America and a call to arms.

[Borincano]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 3:30 pm on June 30, 2002
A commie govnment was installed in Cuba therefore stopping the growth of US influence in the carrabean.

That stopped USA influence in Cuba only. It still interferes and influences the rest of the Caribbean.

Look how it supported the Civil War in Jamaica during the 1960's and 70's. Or it's support for the coup in Haiti after a Marxist was elected or it's support for one of the most oppressive regimes ever, Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier in Haiti until 1986. Reagan's invasion of Socialist Grenada in the 80's. It's military over-throw of Juan Bosch and his communist/socialist rebels in 1966 Dominican Republic, and the CIA/FBI/Cuban bourgeoisie insurgency in Puerto Rico to this very day.

USA influence in the Caribbean is alive and well.