che

[thorgar]

Why Che? He appears to have been a misguided violent soul. By his own admission he loved the smell of gun powder . It is possible that he was the type of person who was so frustrated with his own limitations that he sought an outlet through aggression.
Consider that his economic policies were a disaster. The Russians solved his problems to an extent by purchasing Cuba's sugar harvest. After that fiasco Fidel Castro sent him on a diplomatic tour. This too was a failure. His guerrilla tactics in the congo were a miserable failure as well. In the end Fidel Castro sent him to Bolivia and abandoned him.
Che in death became what he could not in life - a success. It is interesting to note that this success has been as a capitalist icon. His image has sold more merchandise than any other "revolutionary" in history.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:07 PM
Why Che? He appears to have been a misguided violent soul. By his own admission he loved the smell of gun powder . It is possible that he was the type of person who was so frustrated with his own limitations that he sought an outlet through aggression.
Consider that his economic policies were a disaster. The Russians solved his problems to an extent by purchasing Cuba's sugar harvest. After that fiasco Fidel Castro sent him on a diplomatic tour. This too was a failure. His guerrilla tactics in the congo were a miserable failure as well. In the end Fidel Castro sent him to Bolivia and abandoned him.
Che in death became what he could not in life - a success. It is interesting to note that this success has been as a capitalist icon. His image has sold more merchandise than any other "revolutionary" in history.
If he did all that, then he really was not communist.

[colombiano]

The parallels to Bush are astounding (Economically and militarily speaking). LOL ;)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Why Che? He appears to have been a misguided violent soul.

He was a very smart person.

He was a doctor, an economist, and he was registered as one of the Islands Grand Masters in chess.


Consider that his economic policies were a disaster.

Documentation?


After that fiasco Fidel Castro sent him on a diplomatic tour.


After what "fiasco"?


This too was a failure.


Why?


His guerrilla tactics in the congo were a miserable failure as well.


How?


In the end Fidel Castro sent him to Bolivia and abandoned him.


False.


Che in death became what he could not in life - a success.


Not in accordance with the fact or reality or actuality. Please define 'success'. Even if you mean fulfilling the Western "dream", being famous, he did this too.

If you mean establishing a socialist society, he did this too.


When did you become a success?


It is interesting to note that this success has been as a capitalist icon.

He was a success as a revolutionary, politician, as a human being.


How the hell do you dare to criticize a man who worked 16-18 hours today, working like hell, joining revolutions and sacrificing his own life, while you sit behind a computer?

[MILLEN-]

man i dont get it.. where da hell do u got that kinda of information ? did u ever spend some time of your life reading something about che.. ? diplomatic tour was a failure ?


His guerrilla tactics in the congo were a miserable failure as well.

Read this (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=30474)


In the end Fidel Castro sent him to Bolivia and abandoned him.

Read this (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31245)

yes im fokin lazy :D

[Hate Is Art]

Because he has a pretty face :rolleyes:

[MILLEN-]

and sexy! :P

[Hate Is Art]

Just imagine that cigar was your penis

[MILLEN-]

i hate you

[Guerrilla22]

It wasn't that Che's tatics failed in the Congo and Boloivia, those around him failed. His tatics worked fine in Cuba, when they were being implemented by committed revolutionaries.

As far as his economic policies? What economic policies are you talking about? Che was head of the Cuban National bank and did volunteer labor. Fidel created all the economic policies. Besides the Soviets didn't bail them out, quite a bit of the sugar was traded for Soviet made farm equipment, that was ill-made and often faulty.

What I don't get is why someone using the Greatful Dead logo is criticizing Che of not accomplishing anything. I wouldn't call following a band that only had one top ten hit in their existence all over the country, not showering, smoking weed and tripping on acid all the time acomplishing anything.

[thorgar]

You assume too much look at the icon carefully.

[thorgar]

I am sure that Che was a very intelligent person, however this trait does not preclude one from becoming violent and misguided.

Consider that his economic policies were a disaster.


Che held several key government offices begining in 1959 with his appointment as military governor of La Cabana prison, where he presided over the executions of members of the Batista regime. After that he was made head of the Department Of Industrialized Agragarian Land Reform. Here he confiscated private lands for public use. Later he was moved to head of banking. His decline in Cuban politics began soon after his appointment as minister of industry. In this position he began to turn Cuba's economy from agrarian based capitalism to communist based industrialism. This policy implemented by Che began to erode the economy.
In 1964 the Soviet government stepped in and pressured Cuba to prioritize sugar production and abandon the heavy industry advocated by Che. Fidel Castro in response withdrew the sugar sector from Che's ministry.


After that fiasco Fidel Castro sent him on a diplomatic tour.
This too was a failure.

At Algiers in 1965 Che accused the Soviets of being accomplises to imperialist exploitation. This severely strained relations between Castro and the Soviets. Upon returning to Cuba Che was once again shuttled off, this time to the congo.

His guerrilla tactics in the congo were a miserable failure as well.

In November 1965 Congolese government troops drove Che and his Cubans from the country.

In the end Fidel Castro sent him to Bolivia and abandoned him.

Che was sent to Bolivia by Castro and instructed to form up with the Bolivian communists headed by Mario Monje. Upon Che's arrival Monje informed Che that he would not back him. Che fuddled around in the woods until his eventual capture and execution. I find it highly probable that he was set up by Castro and Monje.

Che in death became what he could not in life - a success.

I don't care that the rest of my comments have been edited.
That is a typical form of thought control not limited to communism. You will never come to realize the truth if you practice self censorship.


There are an abundance of communists that criticize the heads of corporations that put in 100 hour weeks. They sacrifice their lives for their beliefs, however misguided they may be. Just because a person works hard does not leave them immune to criticism.

At least I know who I criticize. You assume that the majority of my time is spent on a computer, when you have no idea of who I am.

It does'nt really matter. Personal attacks are only a distraction for all of us

[thorgar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 11:50 PM

What I don't get is why someone using the Greatful Dead logo is criticizing Che of not accomplishing anything. I wouldn't call following a band that only had one top ten hit in their existence all over the country, not showering, smoking weed and tripping on acid all the time acomplishing anything.


[QUOTE]

What I don't get is why anyone would espouse their communist ideology on a website sponsored by goooooogle.

[thorgar]

Originally posted by MILLEN-@Dec 25 2004, 07:18 PM
man i dont get it.. where da hell do u got that kinda of information ? did u ever spend some time of your life reading something about che.. ? diplomatic tour was a failure ?


[QUOTE]

I get my information at the library. Which do you suppose is the more reliable source, the library or an internet forum?

[thorgar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 06:12 PM

When did you become a success?


[QUOTE]

I was a success at birth.

[fernando]

Originally posted by thorgar+Dec 26 2004, 04:05 AM--> (thorgar @ Dec 26 2004, 04:05 AM) [quote]MILLEN-@Dec 25 2004, 07:18 PM
man i dont get it.. where da hell do u got that kinda of information ? did u ever spend some time of your life reading something about che.. ? diplomatic tour was a failure ?





I get my information at the library. Which do you suppose is the more reliable source, the library or an internet forum? [/b]
depends what book or website you read <_<

[Colombia]

I&#39;m gonna have to agree with the thread starter here. Guevara was a failure in life. He would be ashamed of how Cuba has become and he always spoke his mind. Even when it was the worst time to do so. He was brash. We must stop looking up to him and look up to others such as Engels.

[NovelGentry]

Che&#39;s economic failures were due to a number of one sided efforts. The USSR failed to come through on several promises and several trade agreements, which caused much of what was expected in terms of resources to dry up before they ever had a chance. His desire to industrialize Cuba and move away from agriculture was stopped short by a number of other officials in the Cuban ministries including Castro himself. How someone can base all the failures of the Cuban government on Che alone is insane. As far as his attempts at revolution, I would point to Che&#39;s explainations alone as their failure. Tropps in the congo and in Bolivia were undisciplined to the point that what should have been successful campaigns within the total scope of the entire revolution were absolute failures. While this problem existed in Cuba to some degree towards the middle and even the end of the revolution there were always exceptional revoutionaries who made up for it Camilo comes to mind.

It&#39;s a difficult task to change the socio-political tendency of entire nations, even if revolution is prime for activity. By Che&#39;s own words, Bolivia was far from meeting conditions which would have made it a success. The congo perhaps made some sense, but it was not "Che&#39;s revolution" and the support from Cuban guerrillas was seemingly as much a political move as it was a move for altruistic socialist goals (not Che&#39;s doing).

[thorgar]

That&#39;s a likely story. Perhaps you should read this book: Peter The Rabbit. seriously.

[NovelGentry]

That&#39;s a likely response. Perhaps you should read these books: Guerrilla Warfare, Reminiscence of the Cuban Revolution, The Bolivian Diairy, Che Guevara Reader, The African Dream: The diaries of the Revolutionary War in the Congo.

EDIT: seriously.