Pledge of allegiance unconstitutional - 'one nation under GO

[RedCeltic]

The original pledge was first published on September 8, 1892 in the magazine "Youth's Companion" with no reference to a deity.

In 1954, "under god" was inserted into the pledge. This was the McCarthy era when no congressperson would dare vote against "God" or McCarthy.

Today, June 26, 2002, a court in California has made history by declairing the pledge unconstitutional.

[revolutionary spirit]

yeah i read that

[Reuben]

good for california

[antieverything]

excellent...and I'm a christian!

Should I mention that the pledge o' allegiance was written by a socialist?!

[I Will Deny You]

This is great news. But no kids say the pledge, anyway!

Lindsay

[Menshevik]

Is it unconstitutional because it does not separate Church and State?

[Supermodel]

I never understood the invisible part. What's that about?

[antieverything]

The senates 99-0 vote to condemn the decision just makes me sick...

and yes, it was unconstitutional because it was an official government thing.

[Menshevik]

SM, it's indivisible, not "invisible."

It's not the worst misinterpretation I've ever heard, though. My cousin used to say, "I lead the pigeons to the flag of the United States of America. . ."

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from antieverything on 8:05 pm on June 26, 2002
The senates 99-0 vote to condemn the decision just makes me sick...

and yes, it was unconstitutional because it was an official government thing.


That shouldn't be a shock, a vote against the pledge for them would be political suicide.

[edit:] I do remember not knowing quite what the word "indivisable" ment.. would that mean that the US is a prime number? lol...

Also I was in school when they started that whole moment of silence thing. You think standing for the pledge is bad enough...we also had to stand for a moment of silence. My dad told me that it was their way of getting around the no prayer in school issue... but I think during the moment of silence most kids where just thinking..."Can we please sit down NOW?"

(Edited by RedCeltic at 8:39 pm on June 26, 2002)

[antieverything]

I know that, but I just wish there was someone willing to stand up to everyone else!

[RedCeltic]

I agree, we need more politicians who care about what's wrong or right rather than votes.. Children are constantly made targets of abuse for not standing and participating in the pledge. It's not only non Christians or non religious eather....

For example, a child may have parents who are Jehovah Witnesses, well Jehovah Witnesses are against saying this pledge also.

People seem to take on the same position they had during the conflict with prayer in schools. Back then the simply said, "If you don't want to say it than don't participate." So what are you supposed to do? Walk out of the room or stick your fingers in your ears?

I know there are some Americans here in high school or grade school, how do you deal with not saying the pledge, or do you?

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:26 pm on June 26, 2002)

[deadpool 52]

Fucking finally.

Saying "God" is just a sneakier way to say "religion".

[peaccenicked]

I always find signing the pledge unconstitutional (hic!)

(Edited by peaccenicked at 4:44 am on June 27, 2002)

[abstractmentality]

in previous years i always said the pledge (elementary). when in high school, and we were to say it every morning, i actually listened to what was being said, and stopped. since then i have not said it in class. i sometimes get looks from other students, or some will say comments that are supposed to be generalizations about people in the class, but their was only about 4 of us that didnt say it. i think that its about time that they declare it unconstitutional. these past few years i have been thinking about that, and im sad, and very dissapointed that the senate voted the way it did. but, now that i have graduated, i need not worry about saying the pledge every morning, for i will be in a dorm room in davis, and they dont have speakers in the dorm rooms and have everybody stand for it.

[RedCeltic]

No, they don't subject you to that in collage, not even in the military, only little school children who don't know better.

[abstractmentality]

i just got done watching alan keyes on msnbc have a "debate" about the court decision today. i really do not like that guy. he barely even let the opposition speak. personally im glad about the decision, and think it should have been made a lot sooner. however, i know that congress is going to find a way around it.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 8:33 am on June 27, 2002)

[Angie]

Quote from Menshevik:
My cousin used to say, "I lead the pigeons to the flag of the United States of America. . ."How appropriate. We all know what pidgeons do plenty of. :biggrin:

[Stormin Norman]

Did anyone expect anything different from the 9th Circuit. They are the most overturned court in the nation, and have become somewhat of a running joke. Funnier than the Florida Appellate Court.
I am an atheist, but I find the ruling to be lacking any sound judgement. Having the words in the Pledge of Allegiance is hardly a law which establishes a state religion. The decision also ignores historical fact. The Declaration of Independence refers to God given rights. The U.S. Constitution reads 'In the year of our lord'. Supreme court sessions open with a reference to God. Many states in the Union where founded by Christians. Many of the laws written are mirrored by the Christian moral equivalent, for example, thalt shalt not steal, murder, ect.. The fact remains that these kids had the right to get up and walk away, and they still have the right to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in any school if they want. The right of the individual to pray in schools is protected by the first amendment. Their is a difference when the administration starts broadcasting prayer over the intercom, but the pledge hardly counts as prayer.

[Child of Revolution]

y'are a green day fan? thought i read some lyrics off ya.

[truthaddict11]

i am still in shitty school dont stand or say the pledge cuz its studpid to pledge yourslf to a ****ry or a flag . im glad god is out.

[Menshevik]

I think it really doesn't matter whether it says "under God" or not. If you're an atheist, why the fuck should this bother you? You're basically allowing yourself to be offended by something you don't even give a rat's ass about.

That was a general question by the way.

[PunkRawker677]

Mensh, i think the issue in this particular case was the fact that this one parent felt that the words "under god" in the pledge attempted to instill religious belief in his child, and other children. do i agree? i doubt many kids will get turned onto religion by the pledge, but either way its wrong and should not be there.

In highschool i refused to say the pledge for that reason and others, especially when we were bombing iraq, i threw a fit every day.. most teachers didnt care, they just belittled me and humiliated me, but one mother fucker threw me out of his class. Horrible!! gah..

anyways - on another note:

this morning i was listning to the radio on the way to school and they were discussing this and some guy comes on saying it SHOULD say UNDER GOD.. he says he has met god personally and god has taken him in his palm and shown him heaven and hell..

i just thought this was interesting.. it looks like LSD is making a comeback

[Xvall]

Quote: from PunkRawker677 on 6:57 am on June 28, 2002
Mensh, i think the issue in this particular case was the fact that this one parent felt that the words "under god" in the pledge attempted to instill religious belief in his child, and other children. do i agree? i doubt many kids will get turned onto religion by the pledge, but either way its wrong and should not be there.

In highschool i refused to say the pledge for that reason and others, especially when we were bombing iraq, i threw a fit every day.. most teachers didnt care, they just belittled me and humiliated me, but one mother fucker threw me out of his class. Horrible!! gah..

anyways - on another note:

this morning i was listning to the radio on the way to school and they were discussing this and some guy comes on saying it SHOULD say UNDER GOD.. he says he has met god personally and god has taken him in his palm and shown him heaven and hell..

i just thought this was interesting.. it looks like LSD is making a comeback

I didn't say the pledge one, and got a detention for insubordination.. Jello Biafra laughed during the pledge while Vitenam went on.. They made him write on the board...

"I will not laugh during flag pledge"
"I will not laugh during flag pledge"
"I will not laugh during flag pledge"

So, you know.. But that's just me.. With Liberty and Justice for all who can afford it.

[RedCeltic]

With all the talk of random drug testing in high schools and taking away civil liberties you can scratch that "Liberty and Justice" line too.

[antieverything]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the plutocracy for which it stands, one national identity to be assimilated into, under right-wing protestant christianity...amen"

Oh, and congress just voted to add a verse 2!

"I will not question, I know that our elected officials know what is best for me. I will not commit blashemy against the history or icons of my country. I will not think without being told to, free thinkers are traitors to their country...GOD BLESS AMERICA MY HOME SWEET HOME (100x)...amen"

[truthaddict11]

didnt the supreme court say it was unconstitutional to make students say the pledge in 1948?

[Engel866]

Do I spy a russian terrorist? or is Nato still going even though war saw is no more, its just one of those things that stay there for no reason whatsover but pointless patriotic efforts to have children sing to something which they don't know half of

[ID2002]

while having some pride in your country is a good thing..too much will lead a people to believe in ultranationalism. This is what the US is about..ultranationalism and "manifest destany"/ the idea that the USA can intervene in any countries buisness if it doesn't model the US in politics and economics.

[RedCeltic]

It would make more sense to pledge one's allegence to the American People, or Pledge to help the people of the world, whatever...

Pledgeing one's self to a piece of cloth hanging on a stick doesn't make alot of sense. Even pledging yourself to the "Nation for which it stands" is still pledging yourself to an abstract concept..