FIFA's sexists

[KrazyRabidSheep]

This mexican woman is such a great athlete that she can keep up with men's football, yet FIFA won't let her play for a pro club

Seperation between men's and women's national teams are one thing, but this is a private club, not international play.

Check out her stats, 42 goals in 43 games for Mexico's national team! She could probably start in English Premier League

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4110027.stm

Woman barred from men's football

Football's world governing body, Fifa, has ruled that a leading Mexican woman footballer is not eligible to play for a professional men's club.

Maribel Dominquez signed for Mexico's second-division club Celaya this week - a move which would have been a first in North and Central America's sport.

But Fifa's executive committee said that "there must be a clear separation between men's and women's football".

Dominguez, 26, has scored 42 goals in 43 games for the national women's team.

No exceptions

The decision by Fifa's executive committee was taken after a weekend meeting in Zurich, Switzerland.

In a written statement, it stressed that the gender-separation principle in football should be maintained.

"This is laid down in league football and in international matches by the existence of gender-specific competitions, and the Laws of the Game and Fifa's regulations do not provide for any exception," the statement said.

Celaya agreed to abide by the Fifa ruling. It also said that signing the player was a publicity stunt.

'Marigoal'

Dominguez was Mexico's top scorer at the Athens Olympic Games, and was also ranked 25th in Fifa's top women players in the world for 2004.

The striker - who is nicknamed "Marigoal" - had said earlier this week that she would begin a special training regime to get match fit by mid-January.

"The hard thing is going to be equalling the physical force of the men, but the technique, the desire, the willpower, those are things I already have," she said.

Last year Italian team Perugia announced it had made an offer to German World Cup winner Birgit Prinz which would have made her the first female player in Serie A.

However she did not end up with the club, which had also pursued Sweden's Hannah Ljungberg, prompting suggestions it had been a publicity stunt.

[RedAnarchist]

It would be an interesting event - a mixed-gender professional football match. It would certainly break down some gender barriers in sport.

But look at this link, which is found on the link in the previous thread.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/3093147.stm

"She is very beautiful, and has a great figure. I can assure you that as a player, she's very good".

How on earth can we break down gender barriers and sterotypes when this sort of reactionary view is allowed? So what if she is beautiful. It doesnt affect how she plays football, and that is what they would signed her for - they didint sign her to decorate the football team a little.

[Ian]

Well fantastic!

But after looking at both men's and women's the quality of women's is far far below men's and any woman that attempts to play has my utmost respect, but they won't go so well.

[RedAnarchist]

Doesnt mean that our female comrades cant play football as well as men.

[commiecrusader]

Whilst it's a controversial view, at the moment, women's football simply isn't as good as mens. Did anyone watch the women's FA Cup final? It was on BBC in the summer. I did and I'm sorry but it just didn't come up to the standard of most male football matches. Not because they are women, but because they just cant play as well at the moment. However, if a woman was good enough to compete then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but at the moment, I think there are very few women who are. 'Marigoal' does sound like a good player though, she should have been given a chance.

However, I doubt she would be treated equally. I expect a male player who scored 42 goals in 43 internationals would be signed by one of the massive clubs like Chelsea, Man U, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan, rather than Celaya.

[Pawn Power]

But after looking at both men's and women's the quality of women's is far far below men's and any woman that attempts to play has my utmost respect, but they won't go so well.

Maybe it is because mens futbol has a much larger "pool" to choose from. There are many more mens clubs and more men play all together. So i do not think woman cannot play up to mens level phisically but that historically woman have not been encoraged to go into sports. This seems to be changing quickly. It would be intresting to see within a hundred years if there would be no division in sports amoung sex at all.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I'm not defending FIFA. I know they're a bunch of corrupt fat cats, but this is just silly. As filthy members of the bourgeoisie, they're probably sexist, but this is not a display of such.

Women play in womens' teams, men play in mens' teams. This is very understandable from a scientific standpoint, and in now way contributes to the oppression of women.

[bolshevik butcher]

Red zeppelin, I agree, imagine if it was a man wanting t play for a woman's team?

[commiecrusader]

So i do not think woman cannot play up to mens level phisically but that historically woman have not been encoraged to go into sports. This seems to be changing quickly. It would be intresting to see within a hundred years if there would be no division in sports amoung sex at all.

Women play in womens' teams, men play in mens' teams. This is very understandable from a scientific standpoint, and in now way contributes to the oppression of women.
According to an article I read in the paper, women's physical feats in terms of sports (such as sprinting) are advancing much faster than mens, and have been for ages. In 100 years, at the current rate, women will be faster, stronger and more agile than men. So it could eventually be possible to have cross-gender sports. However I would agree with RZ and CF that it isn't really practical at the moment.

[Funky Monk]

I'm sorry but i've seen some women's football, it is nowhere near the standard of the professional men's game. PLus it presnts interesting ethical dillemas. Anyone see the quote by someone who admitted that he wouldnt be able to tackle a woman for fear of hurting her?

[antieverything]

According to an article I read in the paper, women's physical feats in terms of sports (such as sprinting) are advancing much faster than mens, and have been for ages. In 100 years, at the current rate, women will be faster, stronger and more agile than men.
The pool of female athletes has been expanding since the inception of standardized timing, etc. Women athletes have also been able to train more as their sports are taken more seriously. In short, anything that says something along the lines of "if current trends continue" and expects they will is not to be taken seriously as current trends never continue. Current trends are obviously unsustainable...if vertical leaps keep increasing women will be able to fly by 2180!


Maybe it is because mens futbol has a much larger "pool" to choose from.
Watch a women's match and a men's match side by side and tell me it is a matter of skill. Men are far faster than women and it creates a completely different type of game. Look at how much faster male olympic sprinters are than their female counterparts!


I expect a male player who scored 42 goals in 43 internationals would be signed by one of the massive clubs like Chelsea, Man U, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan, rather than Celaya.
If you take any member of the Mexican men's national team and put them on the women's national team they would score far more than 42 goals in 43 games. It simply isn't comparable.


Doesnt mean that our female comrades cant play football as well as men.
Yes it does.

You all remember the US guy who insisted on playing women's field hockey don't you? It was allowed on equality grounds and he simply dominated the female opposition. Is that fair?

Gender-difference deniers were an absurd phenomenon stemming from the academic dishonesty allowed by the rise of "academic" feminism on university campuses. This crap is still tought though thankfully it is on the way out--hard to believe anyone ever took it seriously.

I'd post more but I'm late for my Little League game...you see, age differences are entirely socially created and there's absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to play against younger people--our skill levels, after all, are similar!

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by RedZeppelin
Women play in women's teams, men play in men's teams. This is very understandable from a scientific standpoint, and in no way contributes to the oppression of women.

A "scientific standpoint"?

I don't see any "science" here.

Any team sport is based on a team acquiring the "best" players available -- at least considered abstractly.

The fact that "most men" can perform better than "most women" is not scientifically relevant to possible individual exceptions.

I know very little about football (soccer) but I know a fair amount about baseball. The chance that a woman would be sufficiently competent to play at the major league level is very small...but it is most unlikely to be zero.

That is, there will probably never be a woman who is world champion of weight-lifting, wrestling, or boxing.

But size, strength, and physical endurance are not the only qualities needed in many team sports -- skill, coordination, and mental understanding of the game situation are also important.

I can easily imagine a woman playing second base in baseball or even as a "junk-ball" reliever. She won't ever get the chance to show that she could play with "the big boys" because baseball also has a "no girls allowed" sign on the locker room door.

That may not contribute to the oppression of women "on a grand scale"...but I'll bet there are some young women athletes who feel pretty damned oppressed when they learn they will never even get a chance to show what they can do.

That sucks! :angry:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Commie Rat]

However, I doubt she would be treated equally. I expect a male player who scored 42 goals in 43 internationals would be signed by one of the massive clubs like Chelsea, Man U, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan, rather than Celaya

looks like the biggies lose and Celaya win :D

well good on her shes become of of the best so she shoud eb able to play with the best

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

The reason she cannot play in mens teams is quite simple. It's nothing to do with sexism. There is mens football and womens football. They are seperate sports.

Also, whoever said it is very right. Women's football is not a good quality in comparison to mens. Some clubs, like Fulham are turning their women's teams into professional teams but even then they are not good in comparison to men.

I think some of you are taking this way out of hand. For simple reasons of practicality, men and womens football is seperated. I don't follow Mr. Blatter's recent calls for women to wear skimpier shorts, but I agree whole-heartedly with seperate sports.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o Muerte
Some clubs, like Fulham are turning their women's teams into professional teams but even then they are not good in comparison to men.

I think some of you are taking this way out of hand. For simple reasons of practicality, men and womens football is seperated.

Where is the "practicality" here?

Yes, women's football is "not as good" as men's football. No argument there.

Most female players are "not as good" as even mediocre male players. Again, no argument.

But what of the exceptionally good female player? Why should she not play "with the best"...with a men's team?

She might well go from being a "star" in the women's leagues to being an "average" player in the men's league...and she might not like that much. (!)

But the men are the best-paid players...why shouldn't she have her shot at the big money?

Because the sign on the door says "no girls allowed"?

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[antieverything]

Because, Redstar, if exceptional women are allowed to play on men's teams, women's teams become second-rate teams and women athletes become second-rate athletes. Instead of recognizing women athletes as amazing athletes in their own regard, we view them as sub-standard compared to men. My Little League analogy stands--if women can play with men why can't men play with women?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 01:42 PM
Because, Redstar, if exceptional women are allowed to play on men's teams, women's teams become second-rate teams and women athletes become second-rate athletes. Instead of recognizing women athletes as amazing athletes in their own regard, we view them as sub-standard compared to men. My Little League analogy stands--if women can play with men why can't men play with women?
Women's teams are regarded as "second-rate" now...as many posters to this thread have pointed out.

This may be a cultural factor; existing sports were "designed" to emphasize the special muscular skills of the male body...perhaps there may be, someday, new games in which the physical abilities of both genders will be featured.

An occasional exceptional woman who moves up to the "men's league" is not going to detract from the general level of the "women's leagues" any more than a AAA ballplayer called up to the major leagues "detracts" from the general level of AAA baseball...which is inferior to that of the major leagues.

Well, why shouldn't the male player who is "not very good" (a "marginal player" in sports-talk) defect to the women's league, where he might even be a "star"?

Because such a move would be seen by both himself and others as a demotion...a sign of inferiority.

Think about it: who wants to be a "star player" in the minor leagues when they can get promoted to the major leagues...even as a utility infielder or third catcher? Believe me, every player in a team sport knows and understands that difference.

In baseball, the expression is quite vivid: a player sent back to the AAA club from the major league team is said by his team mates to have "died".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

A "scientific standpoint"?

I don't see any "science" here.

Any team sport is based on a team acquiring the "best" players available -- at least considered abstractly.

The fact that "most men" can perform better than "most women" is not scientifically relevant to possible individual exceptions.

I never implied that women are second-rate athletes. I've watched women's soccer (goddamn Americants beat Brazil!), and it's appears no less physically strenuous and demanding than men's soccer.

I still do not think that this is an overt display of sexism on FIFA's part, since gender segregation is the accepted norm when it comes to sports, but it is somewhat unjust when you think about it. It's a perfect of display of "separate but equal" not being equal at all.

As far as I've noticed, women's physical abilities and assets are different from those of men. This cannot be denied.

Therefore, to separate the sexes in athletics makes sense.

But you are right that women should be allowed to play alongside men. If they are judged to be competent, as they can be, just as men can be, they should play on the same teams.

But do you not think that in light of womens' physical differences that would render them less able at most mainstream sports than men, be a reason to have women-only teams where they can play more important parts in the game without having to put in that extra effort just because they're female?

So wouldn't womens' teams which exist simultaneously with men and womens' teams necessarily be "second-rate" if not the best players are chosen, but only female players...?

We have a problem, eh?

[Commie Rat]

maybe we can have mens womans and mixed that would be good ?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by RedZeppelin
We have a problem, eh?

You may have one; I don't.

As I noted, any sport designed to feature the muscular abilities of men is going to be dominated by men...few women will be able to perform and even fewer women will be able to compete with men as equals.

If there are women's leagues in this sport, the level of their performance will be inferior to that of the men's leagues.

But an occasional woman athlete will be able to perform on a masculine level...and all I have argued is that if she has the ability, then there is no justification -- either "scientific" or "practical" -- for closing the door in her face because she lacks a penis.

Women are automatically ineligible for any "sport" in which the individual with the longest dick wins.

Otherwise...

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

But an occasional woman athlete will be able to perform on a masculine level...and all I have argued is that if she has the ability, then there is no justification -- either "scientific" or "practical" -- for closing the door in her face because she lacks a penis.

Yes, this I fully agree with.
But if or when women of exceptional ability in male-dominated games, such as soccer, are allowed to play with men, women-only soccer teams necessarily become "second-rate" teams.

As you said, though, sports such as soccer are designed for men, as they were designed by men...