Che's "suicide" attempt

[Paradox]

Does anybody know where the right-wingers got the idea that Che tried to commit suicide? I remember reading in an article on some website that he was so embarrassed about being tricked during the Bay of Pigs, that he shot himself but survived. What? It was an accident right? His gun fell out of its holster and a round went off and scraped his face. And it was some medicine that he was given after the incident that almost killed him. Suicide? Those right-wingers sure know how to blow things way out of proportion.

[Colombia]

It was just made up. They have no basis for such an argument.

[bluerev002]

It is completly made up. The Bay of Pigs was one of Che's proudest moments for himself and for Cuba. He had nothing to be ashamed of I ashure you, whosoever made up that lie is ignorant to the revolution and Che. So dismiss it, it is of no importance really.

[RedAnarchist]

Che, unlike so many, did not have the selfishness or ego to kill himself. He lived for the Revolution and did not put himself in front of the people.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 01:40 PM
Che, unlike so many, did not have the selfishness or ego to kill himself. He lived for the Revolution and did not put himself in front of the people.
You're a fucking nob.

[Guest1]

Yeah, I can't understand people who call suicide selfish. There's nothing selfish about suicide.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 21 2004, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I can't understand people who call suicide selfish. There's nothing selfish about suicide.
Because they're fucking dickheads.

[fernando]

Could you elaborate why suicide is not selfish (note that Im not saying suicide is selfish, I just want to know why you dont see it as selfish)

[Free Spirit]

Could you elaborate why suicide is not selfish (note that Im not saying suicide is selfish, I just want to know why you dont see it as selfish)

If you're about to comit suicide but choose to live because of someone else, then you're living you're life to fill up someone else's emptiness or creating a situation that takes away what would be gone if he/she commits sluiced. It's like living for someone else and not for your self.

[RedAnarchist]

I didint mean that suicide is selfish - i only meant it in the context of Che, that beacuse he put the people first he wouldnt have commited suicide. Suicide is not selfish.

[BOZG]

And if he hadn't put himself before the people, he would have been selfish?

Why suicide isn't selfish? Because everyone has the right to their own body, they have the right to choose what to do what that body and that's undeniable.

[Charly Bigpotatoes]

A parent with young and dependant children who commits suicide is acting selfishly.

[BOZG]

Why? Because they don't choose to be miserable. Anyone who's suicidal enough to commit it is in no state to be there for anyone or have anyone dependent on them.

[BOZG]

Or are chronic mental disorders selfish?

[Charly Bigpotatoes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 05:29 PM
Why? Because they don't choose to be miserable. Anyone who's suicidal enough to commit it is in no state to be there for anyone or have anyone dependent on them.
Many attempted suicides fail and those involved go on to live productive lives. Many people at times feel suicidle - everybody has thought about it but suicide is a choice and if there are dependants involved then when they make that choice they do it in self-interest regardless of whom it may damage psychologically or otherwise.

"Selfish" may be an inadequate term.

[BOZG]

And many don't go on to live productive lives, what's your point?

And someone who's suicidal can live in a state of self-loathing and self-hatred and kill themselves because they believe everyone else is better off without them. How can that be self-interest?

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 12:40 PM
Che, unlike so many, did not have the selfishness or ego to kill himself. He lived for the Revolution and did not put himself in front of the people.
Can i explain what i meant in this message?

I meant that Che did not kill himself and wouldnt have tried as he was so commited to the people's cause. I shouldnt have mentioned other people, and i shouldnt have called suicide selfish. It is no selfish act, and in most cases are anything but.

[MiniOswald]

I back BOZG 100% on this one. I think its way too cheap of someone to tell another they cant commit suicide because they're selfish. By doing so you dont help the person, you might keep them round but they will probably feel even worse, stuck in some sorta nasty limbo, dont want to stay, dont want to go.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

1. I was under the impression that Che's personal role in the Bay Of Pigs was limited, but, as I recall, my source may have been a shitty right-wing smear-article. PErhaps somebody can elaborate one way or the other?

2. Suicide is neither inherently selfish, selfless, or neutral - it is entirely a question of context. I think in general it's a bloody lousy idea, and I'm rather thankful that most attempts fail, but, then again, I can't speak to every situation . . .

[Charly Bigpotatoes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 10:29 PM
And someone who's suicidal can live in a state of self-loathing and self-hatred and kill themselves because they believe everyone else is better off without them. How can that be self-interest?
Self-loathing, self-hatred, self-pity, self-absorbtion. Self self self. Selfish. It's always me, me me with these fucking miserable bastards.

[Hiero]

There are alot of soft cocks on this site you know, always going back on what they said. You know how easy it would be to turn the aguement in my favour.

"How dare you say that suicide is not selfsih, my parents killed them selfs leaving me to fend for myself, i have been in and out of homes all my life you have no right to say otherwise"

Anyway


In some cases suicede is selfish. A single mother or single father killing himself because s/he cant take the stress of raising kids is selfish.

Wether you like it or not, you have commitments to other people.

[Hate Is Art]

Them wanting you to survive when you don't want to is selfish on their part.

[Hiero]

You could see it as that.

[Discarded Wobbly Pop]

Originally posted by Charly Bigpotatoes+Dec 23 2004, 12:34 PM--> (Charly Bigpotatoes @ Dec 23 2004, 12:34 PM)
[email protected] 22 2004, 10:29 PM
And someone who's suicidal can live in a state of self-loathing and self-hatred and kill themselves because they believe everyone else is better off without them. How can that be self-interest?
Self-loathing, self-hatred, self-pity, self-absorbtion. Self self self. Selfish. It's always me, me me with these fucking miserable bastards. [/b]
You're the selfish one, why is it you want people to stick around so bad? even when they're suffering, because it make you comfortable?

Now I'll admit, I have been one to pull the selfish card on suicidal people, but that's only when I'm that suicidal person. What do you think denouncing people as "miserable bastards" is gonna do? How much do you think that'll help?

[Guest1]

Considering alot of people who commit suicide think they are absolutely nothing, it's downright stupid for someone to consider suicide selfish. As VMC said, it is neither selfish nor selfless, it just is.

[sim22]

Well, actually, i see suicide as selfish. Not just because of the people that are left behind, but just think of all the possesions that person owned. If they had given all their belongings to some poor cold kid who owned nothing, and THEN killed themselves, they're wasting nothing. The most selfish of all reasons for suicide is "my boyfriend/girlfriend dumped me, i was so in love, there's no point living". I mean, just think of your parents, they've been for you or maybe they havent, but surely the suicider had friends, what? They're not good enough to be around? All because you had a temper tantrum with a guy/girl you're destroying everything??? I mean, what's the chance that you were going to marry that person, die with them??? And it affects other people too, it can cause a chain reaction. And there's always chance that had that person lived on, got married, had kids, their grandchild or whatever could have cured or something along thoes lines. but it'll never all because the person was too weak and gave up. Dont just think of the immediate reactions, a life is more than just a persons presence.