1967 Right Wing Junta in Greece

[BountyHunter451]

From April 21st of 1967 to 1974, Greece was ruled by the infamous, and well adored Right Wing Junta, led by Colonel George Papdopoulos. Overthrow of the monarchy was a brillant idea, yet upheavels followed. Anyone who even said the word, "communism", was either jailed, or beaten. It was a time of safty, (sounds ironic, but really it was very peacful time), and dictatorship under the military coup.

This is one of the great exampls of dictatorship in the world history. No brutallity, unless you were a leftsit student. Which leads me to this...in 1973, and student uprising was pushed down by Colonel Papodopoulas, yet even the secret (brutal, and violent) police could not put down the communsit rebellion. Finally, in 1974 the dicatorship fell, and democracy was restored with a new power...the Leftist Party, POSAK. Do you think, that even in this time, communism was a major power that could even destroy a full-army coup? Communsim was influnced...yet NEVER practice. Even in the Solviet Union, they said communsim was there party. NO. There part was a red tolitarian govermnet. Lenin. Stalin. Gorbachev. All dicators.
Only on communsit was real-Karl Marx, a jewish man, who...INVENTED communsim.

[fernando]

Marx was not a communist, he did not follow his ideas, he just made them up ;)

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

My problems with Marx:

1) He is a philosopher.

2) He is not a social scientist or an expert in human behavior. He was observant, but did little to really verify if his ideas on human behavior are real.

3) He is not a factory mananger. He is not familiar with tooling, human relations in working environments, schedules, and human efficiency.

4) He is not familiar with human models of leadership. Nor has he ever had to direct groups of people at a task.

5) He is more muse than rigid scientist.

[Galatian 6:2]

Fernando,

What do you mean that Marx didn't follow his own ideas?

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 07:34 AM
My problems with Marx:

1) He is a philosopher.

2) He is not a social scientist or an expert in human behavior. He was observant, but did little to really verify if his ideas on human behavior are real.

3) He is not a factory mananger. He is not familiar with tooling, human relations in working environments, schedules, and human efficiency.

4) He is not familiar with human models of leadership. Nor has he ever had to direct groups of people at a task.

5) He is more muse than rigid scientist.
Have you read the Capital?

[Solzhenitsyn]

The Greek Civil War (1945-1949) left a bitter taste in the mouths of Greeks. The Communists supported by Yugoslavia and, initially the Soviet Union, tried to leaverage the large guerilla army (ELAS) that had been raised by the Communists against the Axis. It fail and many Greeks were senselessly slaughtered and impressed into service by ELAS. The body of Velos, ELAS's main commander, was eventually dragged through the streets of Larista with throngs of specators cheering the specticle. In short. the Commies fucked up taking over Greece where, for a time, it seemed they could not possibly lose.

[Osman Ghazi]

In short. the Commies ed up taking over Greece where, for a time, it seemed they could not possibly lose.


I don't know that it ever seemed that way. The Royalists could rely on American miltary support whereas the Commies had to depend on ing Yugoslavia and to a lesser extent, Albania.

In either case, what does the Greek Civil War have to do with the 1967 coup?

[Hate Is Art]

Bounty Hunter - is English your first language?

[Sabocat]

1964 – 1974
American-backed Subversion, Mass-Murder, Torture and Overthrow of Democracy in Greece

Estimated civilian deaths: over 10,000 people

From Killing Hope
by William Blum:

The military coup took place in April 1967, just two days before the campaign for national elections was to begin, elections which appeared certain to bring the veteran liberal leader George Papandreou back as prime minister. Papandreou had been elected in February 1964 with the only outright majority in the history of modern Greek elections. The successful machinations to unseat him had begun immediately, a joint effort of the Royal Court, the Greek military, and the American military and CIA stationed in Greece.

The 1967 coup was followed immediately by the traditional martial law, censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from a “Communist takeover.” Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory.

It was torture, however, which most indelibly marked the seven-year Greek nightmare. James Becket, an American attorney sent to Greece by Amnesty International, wrote in December 1969 that “a conservative estimate would place at not less than two thousand” the number of people tortured, usually in the most gruesome of ways, often with equipment supplied by the United States.

Becket reported the following: Hundreds of prisoners have listened to the little speech given by Inspector Basil Lambrou, who sits behind his desk which displays the red, white, and blue clasped-hand symbol of American aid. He tries to show the prisoner the absolute futility of resistance:

“You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we? Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO, behind NATO is the U.S. You can’t fight us, we are Americans.”

George Papandreou was not any kind of radical. He was a liberal anti-Communist type. But his son Andreas, the heir-apparent, while only a little to the left of his father had not disguised his wish to take Greece out of the Cold War, and had questioned remaining in NATO, or at least as a satellite of the United States.

Link (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/ChronologyofTerror2.html#Greece74)

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Ahhh. The junta in Greece? They were not capitialist. You can understand that can't you?

[Osman Ghazi]

That's .

There is no such thing as a fully capitalist system (everything privately owned and regulated), just as there is no such thing as a fully socialist system (everything publicly owned and democratically regulated.) So then, every economy ever has been a mixed economy.

However, if 80% of all economic activity is conducted within the private sphere, then that country is mostly capitalist. And since maybe 90% of all economic activity being conducted in free markets is the most ever achieved, a country that is 80% capitalist is one of the most capitalist countries in the world, no?

So, how much economic activity was conducted within free and non-free markets in Greece? I don't know the answer exactly, but I'd be willing to bet that it was over 70%, and that's a conservative estimate.

Therefore, Greece was mostly capitalist. I mean, you certainly can't call them anything else, unless you want to start calling every country is the world 'mixed-economist'.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 24 2004, 04:23 PM
That's .

There is no such thing as a fully capitalist system (everything privately owned and regulated), just as there is no such thing as a fully socialist system (everything publicly owned and democratically regulated.) So then, every economy ever has been a mixed economy.

However, if 80% of all economic activity is conducted within the private sphere, then that country is mostly capitalist. And since maybe 90% of all economic activity being conducted in free markets is the most ever achieved, a country that is 80% capitalist is one of the most capitalist countries in the world, no?

So, how much economic activity was conducted within free and non-free markets in Greece? I don't know the answer exactly, but I'd be willing to bet that it was over 70%, and that's a conservative estimate.

Therefore, Greece was mostly capitalist. I mean, you certainly can't call them anything else, unless you want to start calling every country is the world 'mixed-economist'.
But the for all the ills in that first post, seem to be blamed on capitialist. The junta was not capitalist. Right?

[Osman Ghazi]

The junta was not capitalist. Right?

Well, technically no. They were military men, so they were probably a lot closer to ts in their personal beliefs. However, the people who hold public office are very rarely the ones who make the decisions. It is their supporters who decide what they do, either through directly telling them what to do, or more often, by influencing them indirectly.

For example, I'm a Greek general who wants to get money to buy weapons for my coup. (I know what you're thinking, it's the Army, they already have guns, but bear with me here.) I know there are a lot of rich guys who are unhappy with the current government and who may be willing to make a little investment in me that may payoff big time if I become the government.

So, I promise them what they want to hear, "deregulation"; or more likely, turning a blind eye to whatever they do, so long as it's not too bad.

Basically, the members of the junta wer not capitalist, but their supporters were.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 26 2004, 02:34 AM

The junta was not capitalist. Right?

Well, technically no. They were military men, so they were probably a lot closer to ts in their personal beliefs. However, the people who hold public office are very rarely the ones who make the decisions. It is their supporters who decide what they do, either through directly telling them what to do, or more often, by influencing them indirectly.

For example, I'm a Greek general who wants to get money to buy weapons for my coup. (I know what you're thinking, it's the Army, they already have guns, but bear with me here.) I know there are a lot of rich guys who are unhappy with the current government and who may be willing to make a little investment in me that may payoff big time if I become the government.

So, I promise them what they want to hear, "deregulation"; or more likely, turning a blind eye to whatever they do, so long as it's not too bad.

Basically, the members of the junta wer not capitalist, but their supporters were.
Ok I get it now. Just like the supporters in Soviet Russia, Cambodia, and North Korea were communist, but the leadership was not communist.