Communism and my recent thoughts

[Subversive Pessimist]

This might not sound very clear because I have just written my thoughts down, but there have been some of the ways I think the last week or two...

Well, a month ago I would have called myself a communist.


I've given it a lot of thought lately.


Communism is a very good system, and it would probably work if everyone wanted to.

However, as I see it, everyone has to be all for it, or else, it will have difficulty working. If everyone would be like Ernesto or the other unselfish people, then there would be no problem. The fact is that most people (at least in the western part of the world) are supportive of capitalism, and creating a communist society in these places would be foolish and unrealistic, at least up to this point. A socialist society would seem more realistic then a communist society.



Also, a part of me is saying that we have turend in the wrong direction.


I'm tired of the slogans, of the mindless rhetoric, the mindless assumptions etc.

A lot of people in our movement are reading Marx, Engels, Guevara, Stalin and Lenin, for the sake of reading, not because they want to use the theories in practice (or at least so it seems). Although there might be some use in Marx's writings, I don't like the fact that we are reading books that are 150 years old, quote them everywhere like his words was from the prophet himself, and then go on to saying that because Marx said it, then it is true.


Even some people who call themselves marxist-leninists, call communism "utopian", and think it's a silly idea.



Marx thought for himself. A lot of communists these days repeat what others thought hundreds of years ago. I think it's time for us to start to think innovative and focus on todays situation and development. What Mao or Marx said or thought might not always be the truth. What Mao said will maybe not have the same significance in 50 years.


I think we should rather focus on socialism instead of communism, at least for now.


Should we even consider communism as a worthwhile project? At this point, I don't see why we should (call me pessemistic and non-idealist). When we establish a socialist society, perhaps. But now? I see no big reason to it.

We should focus on the self-determination of the workers. Everything else seems to me, at least up to this point, rather irrelevant. What I mean is, even if it is socialism, communism, the most imortant thing is that we support the workers. The goal should not be communism. The goal should be the well being of all people.



I'm not against revolution either, but when we see that capitalism is what people in most of the world wants (you might say this is ignorance, but then again, they do have a choice and), then I think it's their choice. If they wanted to see a socialist part in power, then they could vote for a socialist party, but in most cases, they don't.


There are very few details to communism and how it would work, that is not the case with socialism. We've seen what can work, and what cannot. We haven't seen communism work in the modern day world, on a grand scale. Therefore I see it as more realistic to focus on socialism then communism.

We've seen that socialism (economically speaking) can be work very good for the ordinary people, and the fact that the system can work.

In many ways, I think I am still a leninist, but I see it is naive and stupid that the party should have complete control over everything. The government and the people needs to be closely connected, not seperated. There needs to be an intimate relation between the two.

The bureaucracy needs to be subject to the proletariat, not the proletariat to be subjected to the bureaucracy.



Basically, I think that communism is a good theory, and I am all for it. It's just that it is very far away (subjectively and objectively), and I think we have to concentrate on the small steps (what matters now) instead of dreaming about something we will probably never know will work on a large scale, at least in our lifetime.



I don't consider myself more rightist now then before.

I'm just more realistic, practical, maybe a little cynical too, but I try to see what needs to be done now, instead of 200 years ahead of time, or what should have been done 200 years ago. I think this is perhaps a healthy sign, but at the same time I think we need to keep the spirit up. We know we can change, but we must also know our limits.



Instead of dreaming about communism and how everything would be great, I think we could use at least a little of that time instead to protest, civil obedience, education of the working people. I will focus on the revolution in Nepal etc. instead of what happened a hundred years ago in Russia. I think it is a big and tragic mistake that we most often tend to look backwards, instead of at the present,.



Yes, I might have lost a little faith in the people who adhere the capitalist mentality, true. But I haven't given up on the essential ideas of leftist thought, quite the opposite. I think that my ideas have been strenghtened through critical thought, and I think that this is something everyone should do. I think some of it has to do with maturity. I'm not going to bother to think of things so distant, at least when it has no potential at this point.

[NovelGentry]

However, as I see it, everyone has to be all for it, or else, it will have difficulty working.

This is not at our choice. Material conditions are at the heart of this, what we should and do attempt to do is to make people conscious of this. We make them conscious of their class and it's position under the ruling class. We make them conscious of how they are exploited. Most importantly of all, we make them conscious of why some day revolution will be inevitable. Apparently we have failed to do this with you.


Although there might be some use in Marx's writings, I don't like the fact that we are reading books that are 150 years old, quote them everywhere like his words was from the prophet himself, and then go on to saying that because Marx said it, then it is true.

There are extreme truths to Marx's writings, not because Marx wrote them, but because they are extreme truths. It is certain that any singular quote out of context will not show you in any way the full breadth of Marx's work. As such, you will fail to grasp that consciousness I spoke of before unless you understand what Marx has said on a much larger scale. It's easy to understand a single quote, and you may say "yes, well if what Marx says is true then that quote is true, cause it certainly makes some sense... but it relies on this this and this." Well the "this this and this" part is within the rest of Marx's writings and is certainly of great truth, once again, not because Marx says so, because it simply is. Marx's logic often follows system of, well if we know this, and we know that, then we know something else.

Non-philosophical example of this kind of logic:

2 + 2 = 4 and 4 + 4 = 8 thus 2 + 2 + 4 + 4 = 12

The final answer assumes that the first 2 are correct, but the first two ARE correct, which is the case in Marx's work. It is simplified to such a level that you cannot deny it's truth. Marx PROVES that the material conditions within our lives dominate our lives from the day we come into existence everything gets built up from there as just as solid truths.


What Mao or Marx said or thought might not always be the truth.

Some of what Marx said wasn't truth from the beginning -- and it was based on what he saw in his current society. Most of these errors apply to his economics, although there are some flaws within his general theory as well. Indeed the truly Marxist thing to do is understand that Marx's entire existence was built upon the material conditions of his day, thus he is bound to make some suppositions that would relate only to the material conditions of his day. This, however, does not discredit Marx, Marxism, or his contribution to Communist Theory. Instead it only serves to show that it is more true, as above all it proclaims this material condition as our primary influence. What we need now from modern theorists, but more importantly modern economists is a revamp to show what of his work has truth, and what doesn't in the terms of capitalist economics. While this will become an important tool to argue capitalism, we then need an important tool to show that we can create a socialist society which will be not only equal and free from corruption but will in the end lead us closer and closer to communism. The groundwork for these exist, Capital would certainly be the groundwork for any economist trying to prove Marx's economic theories. It would also serve as some of the groundwork for building practical socialism -- but I would argue that one group has already done this from the economics side.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/6579/index.htm


I think we should rather focus on socialism instead of communism, at least for now.

I agree, as it is always the transitional phase (often called socialism) that never gets us to communism. When we have perfected a means of going from revolution to communism we will be able to do that. How can we perfect it without trial and error? With a lot of hard scientific work. This IS a science, believe it or not.

I'm gonna end here because I Think I've given your statement enough of a response to maybe help you reconsider. Let me say that what I have seen from you is a general misunderstanding. It would appear that you do not realize the scientific aspects of Marxism and downright dismiss some of it's key points ot make the argument that it is "idealism." I can only ask you to give it another chance, and maybe read a bit more this time -- if there are parts you don't understand, that is why we have this community.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Subversive Pessimist
We've seen that socialism (economically speaking) can be very good for the ordinary people, and the fact that the system can work.

I think that's a very dubious statement. To be sure, it was a substantial improvement on what it replaced. But in the end, it collapsed from internal rot...and now ordinary people are in terrible shape in those countries.

I can't see any reason to go through that shit again...now that we know how it turns out.

A revolution that leads directly to communism does sound "utopian" to many ears...I don't blame people for being highly skeptical that it would "work".

But I think it's a simple and rational choice: try something that may not work versus trying something that we already know will fail.

Or just accept what we have, of course. :o

:redstar2000:

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