ALF - Any suporters here?

[hXcPetey]

The flaming words of liberation may invite us to consider extending that hand to animals. the point of revolution is to create a truely just world. so, what kind of just world caries such injustice toward animals who cant speak for them sevles. the left should heavily embrace vegitarianism. factory farming is the rotting core of capitalism.

"Respect for nature and innocent life ends the human over human opression, a peaceful world can evolve after ANIMAL LIBERATION"
-Earth Crisis

[Xvall]

I'm not going to vverify that, for my own safety, and because my mom found an ELF manual I had for blowing up buildings and making incenidary devices! I refuse to speak!

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 6:17 pm on June 20, 2002)

[hXcPetey]

what harm is simply stating that you suport ALF?

[Kez]

can some1 explain what ALF is?i take it its some sorta animal thing is it?

[Valkyrie]

I support the ELF especially in their efforts against genetic research and bio-engineering. I support the Alf to a lesser degree... in that I mean priority. I am fearful though that the ELF can attract people who just want to burn things up for fun and won't take the precautions of the ELF guidelines, thus possibly injuring someone in the process. It is just a matter of time before that happens. And once that happens they are pretty much FINISHED. As it is now, they are considered minor-league terrorists.

[Valkyrie]

The ALF is the Animal Liberation Front. The Elf is the Earth Liberation Front. They use radical means to stop Nazi-type research. I believe both of them are splinter groups of Earth First, splitting from EF because of their aggressive means of carrying out protest.

[Xvall]

Alf and Elf are not terrorists. They never target innocent people. And they never try to kill or hurt anyone. Terrorist is just a label used by the Government to denounce anything they don't like.

[SU37]

I don't see how animal farming is the rotting core of Capitalism.Not eating meat is not going to crush Capitalism,its not a big lose to them.Most animal farmer's are a little poor and there middle class,plus I love meat anyway.

(Edited by SU37 at 2:51 pm on June 20, 2002)

[vox]

"what harm is simply stating that you suport ALF? "

The FBI calls ALF and ELF terrorist organizations, though they are not listed as such by the State Department. However, given the fuzzy language of the "Patriot" Act and the willingness of the current administration to ignore constitutional rights, those who support such groups may be guilty of supporting terrorist organizations. That's where the harm is.

Remember, Ari Fleischer said you have to watch what you say. Why would anyone think he wasn't serious?

vox

[SU37]

If you ask me,the real rotting core of Capitalism is the Oil industry.

(Edited by SU37 at 3:01 pm on June 20, 2002)

[Valkyrie]

Drake, Right, they don't come under MY definition of terrorism but the general definition of terrorism is not exclusive to hurting or harming a living thing.. but rather the carrying out of violent means to coerse a government or entity in reaching a political end. That is what THEY consider terrorism.

SU, the ALF is strictly for Animal Rights not anti-capitalism, though capitalism is the source behind everything.

The ALF's website is down, but there is this one:
http://www.hedweb.com/alffaq.htm

And ELF's:
www.earthliberationfront.com


(Edited by Paris at 8:25 pm on June 20, 2002)

[Rob]

I'm not really that big a supporter of the whole animal rights thing. Call me an earth killer, but I can't say that I really care that much.

[I Will Deny You]

I think that what goes on in slaughterhouses is horrible, but freeing rats that are being used to find cures for cancer is neither anti-capitalistic or especially bright. If killing some rodents will save countless lives I've got no problem with it. I don't know the particulars about the Animal Liberation Front, but I do support Alf and always will because he's one of the best television characters ever, even if he was an evil fascist carnivore who ate innocent cats. It's easier to save the lives of innocent humans, so I think I'll stick with that.

I've gotta warn you, though: I grew up on a farm in Ben & Jerry country and we milked cows. We didn't kill any of them, but plenty of our neighbors did. I myself only eat Kosher meat out of respect for the animals, but I don't think vegetarianism is necessary. (I work in a deli, so if you ever choose to eat meat again I can tell you how to make a great roast beef sandwich.)

Lindsay

[Xvall]

Yes Linsay,
But there is a diffirence between killing a few rodents to find a cure, and shoving shampoo in small mammals eyes so they they can sell a new product to make millions of dollars.

[Valkyrie]

Yeah, and I'm sure we have all seen the PETA photos of live rabbits sliced open with their entrails hanging out and shaved cats hooked up to some kind of electrical probes being zapped with heavy voltage in some kind of diabolic experiment. It is the torture of the animals, rather than the purpose that these groups are against.

[I Will Deny You]

If they don't test the product, then no one will know if it is dangerous until there is a lawsuit. The government wouldn't have much credibility in trying to keep the shampoo market full of safe products if they don't allow testing. So what can we do . . . say that no one has the right to create a new product?

And I'm aware that the ALF isn't against a cure for cancer, but rather the means by which doctors are trying to find the cure. But the problem is that animal testing is often the only way to find information. People don't perform those experiments for no reason.

Lindsay

[El Brujo]

I don't support vegetarianism (I cant live without meat, plus it contains lots of protein which is necesarry to be healthy) but I would support more humane ways of killing animals for food. If you live in a very rural area I would suggest hunting for your food or fishing but thats the best thing I could think about that could possibly be done at the moment.

[Valkyrie]

With all the testing they've done, there yet to find a shampoo that doesn't burn out your retina just by the fumes (perfumes) alone. All those chemicals HAVE got to prove bad in the long run. remember electric blue eyeshadow of the 70's? Anyway, big trend of the 70's. ekk!!! Things women CAN live without. Well one of the pigment dyes in it as it turns out causes cancer years down the road. They had to reformulate it. Either way, testing animals for human products doesn't guarantee it's safety for humans.

I can see the point for testing medical procedures and using rodents.. but not household pets.

[hXcPetey]

it takes 10 to 20 times the amount of land to raise a meat diet as opposed to veg(itari)an diet

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Paris on 7:45 pm on June 20, 2002
testing animals for human products doesn't guarantee it's safety for humans.
But it's a relatively accurate indicator.

Lindsay

[Valkyrie]

Quote: from Paris on 7:45 pm on June 20, 2002
testing animals for human products doesn't guarantee it's safety for humans.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it's a relatively accurate indicator

---

True... it's a good indicator for all of us who are animals. And ALL you guys who are PIGS!!!! hehehe!!!

[peaccenicked]

There are a few things here: many people point to priorities but everyhing on the planet counts. The issue
of animal rights reflects on the whole of society and its level of consciousness. Let us take cruelty out of all levels of life.

[hXcPetey]

until man [and womyn] learn to respect animals, man [and womyn] cant truely be at peace with his [her] own kind.

i think it was st. francis of asisi that said that

[Dhul Fiqar]

Since someone mentioned there might be harm in supporting ALF and ELF, I'd like to publicly state the following:

I fully support (in spirit) the following groups:

ALF
ELF
Hezbollah
PFLP
PLO
Fateh
HDIP - Palestine
ETA
Kurdish freedom fighters
Kashmiri freedom fighters
....and all those militant anarchist groups and whoever else the U$A government might not like in the past, present or future.

I'd actually really like to see 'em try to indict me or something, I guess I have way too much free time ;)

(Edited by Dhul Fiqar at 12:14 am on June 22, 2002)

[hXcPetey]

well good idea
heres mine:

ALF
SPUSA
YPSLUSA
*RCP
*WWP
*SWP
*ELF
*NUP
IWW
*PLO
catholic worker
!Peace Action Network
PETA
Aliance 4 Animals
Animal Defence League
Angela Davis copwatch
Gay Straight Aliance



*sympathise not suport



!not that i'm a pacifist per se

(Edited by hXcPetey at 5:15 pm on June 21, 2002)

[SU37]

I think a animals's every part should be used when you kill it,I but as I said before animal farming is not the rotting core of Capitalism.I love meat and been a meat eater all my life,I have respect for animal-rights groups but some times animal- right groups go too far.Should I feel gulity when I bite into a pork sandwhich?, I don't think I should! Animals were put on this Earth to eatin and for other animals to eat them.Its a humans way of life,Humans have teeth designed to tear meat.Humans were ment to eat meat.




(Edited by SU37 at 2:02 pm on June 21, 2002)

[hXcPetey]

animals were not ment for McDonalds', ocsar myer's, or any meat CEO's explOi!tation. they were put on the earth for the same reason as people; to be free to live a full natural life.

"despite constant attempts to prove human superiority, the fact remains that in suffering they are our equals"
-peter singer

"the question is not can they reason, nor is it can they talk, but can they suffer"
-jerimy bentham, 1789 (yet we never learn even over 200 years later)

"all beings tremble before violence. all fear death. all love life."
-Buddha (my favorite quote)

[SU37]

Animals were ment to eat and fight to live,Humans do the same.Macdonalds is nasty...no question about that.But I mean if we let animal s lose like wild bears and woves and other animals, they will soon start to attack humans.Its called a food-chain and its the way life works.Humans are at the top and other animals are at the bottem.

(Edited by SU37 at 2:50 pm on June 21, 2002)

[hXcPetey]

then you are being no better then those who think they are superior to some dude half way around the world because i'm from here and your from there. or your of this orgin and i'm not. its the same fucking concept.

except its worse. animals cant stick up for themselves its kinda like: "they dont know our feelings, just our desperate cries"
-from the song crucified
thats why I relate, similar way as how most adults see us kids, as clay for our molding.

[Kez]

Quote: from Rob on 10:00 pm on June 20, 2002
I'm not really that big a supporter of the whole animal rights thing. Call me an earth killer, but I can't say that I really care that much.


Im with Rob, when all humans have a great life, then we can concentrate on rabbits.

Also, dont call the methods of company's "nazi-like", u are weakening the term nazis. How can u compare the holocaust, plus the persecution of so many of our comrades, as well as the deaths of MILLIONS of soldiers, to some shit about puttin soap in the eyes of rabbits, or the fact they practice medicine for us on bred animals. Ok it may be brutal, but it sure as fuck aint "nazi" like

comrade kamo

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from hXcPetey on 3:14 pm on June 21, 2002
then you are being no better then those who think they are superior to some dude half way around the world because i'm from here and your from there. or your of this orgin and i'm not. its the same fucking concept.No, it's not the same "fucking" concept. Human beings are the same species. Discriminating against a fellow human is disgusting. However, animals are inferior. I'm sure some people don't want to hear it, but at this point it's pretty well-established. If all mammals should not be eaten, why not say that all animals don't deserve to die? Then we can call the manufacturers of bug spray Nazis. From there, we can say that all life is equal. You know, that the bacteria living in my stomach deserves just as many rights as I do. We all draw the line between "equal to me/not equal to me" in a different place. I believe that all humans are equal to me. Some people believe that all mammals are equal to all humans. But that doesn't make us Nazis. I haven't killed 12 million people lately. I've only eaten tasty sandwiches.

Lindsay

[Moskitto]

I'm totally against testing cosmetics on animals but I think it is justofoed for medical research although they should be looking for alternatives to animal testing. And I don't agree with the people who were carbombing huntingdon life sciences because if they really didn't like animal testing they should be lobbying to encourage research into other ways of testing medicines rather than destroy research that could save millions of human lives.

I said to someone during a green issues debate "one step on the way to treating humans like animals is treating animals like humans" and they didn't say anything.

[antieverything]

Like I said about the ELF earlier, it pisses me off that there are probably only like six guys in this group who just run around and be terrorists but they get more publicity than all of the non-terroristic groups combined!

[hXcPetey]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 6:27 pm on June 23, 2002

Quote: from hXcPetey on 3:14 pm on June 21, 2002
then you are being no better then those who think they are superior to some dude half way around the world because i'm from here and your from there. or your of this orgin and i'm not. its the same fucking concept.No, it's not the same "fucking" concept. Human beings are the same species. Discriminating against a fellow human is disgusting. However, animals are inferior. I'm sure some people don't want to hear it, but at this point it's pretty well-established. If all mammals should not be eaten, why not say that all animals don't deserve to die? Then we can call the manufacturers of bug spray Nazis. From there, we can say that all life is equal. You know, that the bacteria living in my stomach deserves just as many rights as I do. We all draw the line between "equal to me/not equal to me" in a different place. I believe that all humans are equal to me. Some people believe that all mammals are equal to all humans. But that doesn't make us Nazis. I haven't killed 12 million people lately. I've only eaten tasty sandwiches.

Lindsay

yeah, well you tell that to the next cow you see. then you should be the one to slaughter and eat the poor thing.

[RedCeltic]

And the cow would reply, "MOOO!"

Look, I'm a socialist and believe in the liberation of the worker, not the domesticated animal! Cattle exist today because of humans, do you seriously think that if you set the cattle free that the would survive? Cows are the type of animal that would die of thrist while knee deep in snow.