just a loser?

[guevara-marley]

ok what do you think abot this: che was just something like a looser..i don't mean it like that!!!!but he had lost in kongo and he went to bolivia and died (or you could say lost if you like it..) but why are there sooo many people his "fans" they handle him like god and if you are true: jesus died on the cross and he was killed...some years later they were also his "fans"and started believing into him... it's stupid to compare che with jesus (because i don't like jesus) but i think it has got true roots... for the loosing he became more popular because he tried to do it in a better way and he tried to fulfill his dreams of an united south america...
what do you think about it??

ps.: for me hi ISN'T a looser!!!

teté

[RedAnarchist]

Che wasnt a god, he had faults. Yes he lost at times, but thats beacuse Che was a human. He wasnt like "jesus", who apparently descended from heaven. He was a good, selfless man who saw injustice and it made him angry and so he became a revolutionary.

His "fans" are idiotic groupies who see only the postive sides of Che, and do not and cannot see that they too can be like Che and be like any other revolutionary this world has been lucky enough to know.

[guevara-marley]

ok i think i can't tell the things i mean in english...i didn't compare it with GOD!!!just jesus lost in his live and when he was dead he was famous...i really ment that he was like god!! just his failing with the failing of jesus when they were alive...
and i wasn't able to find another word for "fan"..for sure i mean those people who know and like all of his sides.....

teté

[MILLEN-]

"Alive Che was a pain in the neck, Dead he becomes Perfect. The legend grows.. reachs the mith."

These are not the exact words but i think it expresses well the factor of che's death.. his death its not important now, the important is that we keep alive his ideals :D it's not that i think that a dead che is better than an alive one, i am disgust by the people that killed him and i think that if he was alive the world would be different.. better! but as he said in bolivia "It is better like this ... I never should have been captured alive."

[Thomas]

For one I dont beleive Jesus existed, or at the least he was a normal guy who someone made a big story out of.

And yes Che had faults, he had his bad points and was never a perfect person. But he had passion, determination and a thirst to fight for the good of the world, this made him a revolutionary and one of the biggest names of the 20th century. The unfortunate knock on of this is the idiotic mindless people who wear T-shirts with him on, T-Shirts that fund capitalism ( :blink: ) and they think they know about Che and his beliefs.

At the end of the day all the "rebels without a cause" go with Che as part of their teenage rebellion. as a result he gets more fans, the problem is his "fans" don't have a fucking clue who he is :(

[leftist resistance]

Well,you should say some of his "fans"

He wasn't a loser.Though he is long dead,his memory is still here.He fell,but his call for social justice has and is still being heard.

[RedAnarchist]

Even if some rebellious teenager does decide to almost worship Che, as long as they know who he is and what he stood for, isnt that ok? It would make Communism seem much more acceptable to them.

[Thomas]

Thats the problem, theres a lot of people my age in England who I know who wear Che's T-shirts just because its cool and makes them fit in (even though they hate conformity!) Theres some like me who actually know what he stood for and actively pursue his beliefs. But the majority seems to have practically no idea who he is :(

So rather than being a symbol for the struggle for freedom he's a symbol of coolness. Not that he isn't cool :P

[Paradox]

I think Che would be pretty angry if he knew people were worshiping him, or saying that he was "cool." I think he put it best when he said "I am not a movie star." As for shirts, I must confess that I have 3 that I still wear outside (5 if you count the 2 that shrunk and that I only use inside the house). So far I've only had 2 people convey negative responses to my Che shirts. But for the most part, most people who say anything ask "Who's that?" I've even had people pronounce his name wrong and ask "Who's ChEE?" The first time that happened I didn't know what the hell they were talking about til they pointed to his picture on my shirt. I know that he had flaws, and I don't worship him like some saint, but I guess it is a contradiction to wear a shirt with his face on it, when he was so against fame. At the same time, you might get people interested in him by explaining what he stood for, fought for, and died for. I don't know that it makes a difference, but I buy all my Che and other revolutionary shirts at the local flea markets. I can get 3 shirts for $10. Sure beats spending $18 or $20 for ONE shirt at some store in the mall. Also, I've seen Che posters at the mall for $60! Anybody who spend that much money on a poster of Che has nothing in common with Che's ideals. capitalism exploiting the image of a fallen Communist, what a shame. Given these strange contradicitions, should we stop wearing Che shirts to stop aiding the cappies? Or should we still wear our shirts to promote what Che and others stood for?

[RedAnarchist]

I think we have been quite lucky - it wouldnt take a genius to see all these communists with their che t-shirts - and if that person was a neo-nazi or something, they would know who to attack. But that doesnt mean we shoul hide our politics.

[Hiero]

You have to admit Che was a idiot for to Bolivia, he was impatient probaly.

[Colombia]

Man Ernesto was an idiot right after the Cuban revolution succeeded. Everything just went downward from there.

[r3B3lli0n]

I think there is an Ernesto 'Che' Guevara in all of us, his leadership, his rebellious nature, his passion to fight for injustice, but it takes great sacrafice and courage to rebell in order to make a difference in the world and most people are sheep. He inspires us, we relate to his ideals and beliefs, and we admire his work and what he fought for becasue it too is what we are passionate about. Anyone who takes the road less traveled and/or rebells is someone I will always respect and admire. So, I wouldn't classify myself as a "fan" of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara...I am a fan of rebellion!

[JudgeKure]

Well theres a reason he lost in the Congo...

Che said it himself that the people there didnt fight like they wanted a Revolution...That they were too lazy to be Revolutionaries...

And you cant blame him for dying in Bolivia...Name me one other person that survived 2 revolutions...Thats a Winning record...2 for 1...Hes a Surviver...Think of it like that...

It takes more then One Che too win a revolution...Cuba had a few...

[bubbЯubbgoeswoo]

He didn't have to win,its jsut the fact that he went out and did it.Everyone on this talks but aren't doing a whole lot to put their plans into action.Che went out and did it.

[bubbЯubbgoeswoo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:33 AM
Man Ernesto was an idiot right after the Cuban revolution succeeded. Everything just went downward from there.
Atleast he went out and did something.He wasn't an idiot,he was a of our genius time.HE couldv'e stayed in Cuba but how was that going to help the world.He had to try to change the world himself if no one would.What have you done to change the world in a postive way?

[JudgeKure]

^^Yeah

But you can also think about it long term...

He could have also stayed in Rosario, Argentina for the rest of his life and live richly (For those that dont know...He came from a rich family)...But he didnt...He traveled the world and became part of revolutions and shit...

And I dont think the word Genius should be mentioned again...Cause the Genius thing to do was the opposite of what he accually DID do...

[bubbЯubbgoeswoo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 11:33 PM
^^Yeah

But you can also think about it long term...

He could have also stayed in Rosario, Argentina for the rest of his life and live richly (For those that dont know...He came from a rich family)...But he didnt...He traveled the world and became part of revolutions and shit...

And I dont think the word Genius should be mentioned again...Cause the Genius thing to do was the opposite of what he accually DID do...
I disagree with your last statement.Maybe not a genius as in his IQ level but only a smart man would be able to see that the world needs to be changed and actually go out and do something about it.

[Big Boss]

Nicely put, bubb!! He was a man who wanted to do something to help those that nobody thinks of because it is happening in some far off land like the World Vision stuff. Che went out and tried to defend those that had noone to stand up for their rights. Rights of land, right of independence and a right to live like a normal human being. His motorcycle travels changed his life because he saw first hand the exploitation by the imperialistic US with companies like the United Fruit done to the poor and marginalized. His actions were truly inspiring and something that we all as comrades should do too.

[Rage Against the Right]

Anyone who is having trouble following these posts shoudl check out the book "Che: A Revolutionary Life", by Jon Lee Anderson. It's what got me interested in leftist thought and it's hard not to at least respect Che for tenacity. I remember a part of the book where one of his soldiers in Cuba at first complained about how strict he was with them, until he saw that Che held himself to the same guidelines. Any man who can practice what his preaches entirely is at least respectable. In Che's case, about him "sort of" coming from a rich family, that just further promotes the heroicness of his actions. He was fighting for his brothers and sisters throughout Latin America and the World, not just himself. He could have lived comfortably as a doctor. He didn't join the fight to help himself he did it to help the world. It's not genius but it's very very pure.

[Big Boss]

Nicely put Rage!! I read that book and it is really amazing.

[Rage Against the Right]

Thanks!

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

well i believe Jesus was a normal guy! a freedom fighter! that was killed for threat of people uprising against Roman rule! Not much different from Che. (just my view but hey....) The whole being attacked and beaten so badly and killed! He mustve been more of a threat then a peaceful guy sitting around telling stories and healing ppl!! Cmon!!

[Ĉħé_Ĝűĕ]

And as for Che being an idiot, yes he was unprepared! But Fidel did send him out of Cuba........ knowing he WAS unprepared etc. I guess its because Che had so much faith and determination to free them, he wouldve gone and tried even if he had known it would take his life!

[Jack Skellington]

He was just a strong willed man who fought for what he believed in

[trex]

are we talking about his other failures as well? I have heard Che tried many revolutions, but only one worked (yes, Cuba!). Well, Abraham Lincoln failed bids for senate, congress, lost a business of his, and where is he now?

[Rage Against the Right]

Che didn't have the support from the people as a whole like he did in Cuba, that's why Bolivia and others failed.