Che rolex

[MILLEN-]

Is this true ? "After the execution, Rodríguez took Che's Rolex watch, often proudly showing it to reporters during the ensuing years."
Did che had a rolex ? i'm just curious.. if this is true it's simply disgusting the fact that rodriguez used something from che as an trophee.. ;)

sorry if this was already posted :\

[themanwhodoesnotexist]

peace....
yes that devil Felix has my man Che's watch......
i wish i knew where felix lives......

[fernando]

Miami area....I dont think it would be too hard to find him?

[schumi]

hmm i heard something like that but i do know that there was a Che-Swatch after he died :o

[guevara-marley]

che had two rolexes (i don't know the plural...)...
it's stupid that he took his watch just to show everybody hey man now i've got a dead revolutionaries rolex...great...
tink they should have given his things to his family but no...it's better for stupid people that they have his things....

teté

[RedAnarchist]

He took it because he was capitalist. He would have taken anything from Che's body if he thought he could sell it for a large profit.

[fernando]

That reminds me of Mario Teran, I watched an attempt of an interview with him on the documentary Sacrificio, but he refused (eventhough they offered him money) because he will write a book which would make more money :rolleyes:

[The Weather Underground]

Originally posted by MILLEN-@Dec 6 2004, 08:58 PM
Is this true ? "After the execution, Rodríguez took Che's Rolex watch, often proudly showing it to reporters during the ensuing years."
Did che had a rolex ? i'm just curious.. if this is true it's simply disgusting the fact that rodriguez used something from che as an trophee.. ;)

sorry if this was already posted :\
It was not a gold rolex now.

[cubalibra]

He also forced Che to have a picture taken with him shortly before his execution. Someone needs to put that miserable bastard in his place.

[New.Art.Riot]

He also took Che's hands as trophys.

[NovelGentry]

No, that was cause Che was so revolutionary that he refused to give up the watch even after he was dead. So he had to cut off his hands to get it.

[New.Art.Riot]

<_<

[NovelGentry]

<_<

No different a response than deserves, "He also took Che&#39;s hands as trophys."

Che&#39;s hands were in reality cut off for identification purposes.

[MILLEN-]

they were gonna cut is head too actually.. Quintanilla received orders from the Bolivian Minister to take che&#39;s head to La Paz.. but then it didn&#39;t happen because it was to barbarian, even for an hated enemy..

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

for you Che fanatics, nobody&#39;s mentioned the fact that Che owning a Rolex seems a tad &#39;bourgeoisie&#39;...

Then again, I dont hold him against it, he was human. I just thought I&#39;d mention it for you fanatics of the man.

[fernando]

The Rolex was a gift, I think Che kept out out of respect for the person who gave it to him, but then again it might seem a tad &#39;bourgeoise"

[antieverything]

Hell, for all we know it was given to him when he graduated from medical school or something.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Or...he could&#39;ve just had a thing for a Rolex watch...who knows?

[DaCuBaN]

The Rolex was a gift, I think Che kept out out of respect for the person who gave it to him, but then again it might seem a tad &#39;bourgeoise"

Why? Would you have expected him to give up his Kalashnakov too? I think you underestimate the necessity of good timekeeping in a military campaign. Rolex has become a "designer" brand, but back in the day it was merely a high quality timepiece manufacturer.

Just because your a self-professed communist, doesn&#39;t mean you can&#39;t have functional items. I&#39;m sure, had you really needed a watch for whatever reason, he&#39;d have lent you it.

[Thomas]

Facts

1) Che&#39;s hands were removed due to identification purposes.

2) The rolex was removed from the body before the hands were severed.

3) Rodriguez will be under high security, probably CIA, but I would love to see that man executed.

4) Rolex wasn&#39;t designer or expensive back then, it was just another brand of watch.

Opinions

XPhile I think that Rodriguez actually still has the watch, more of a sick symbol of Ches sacrifice then a means of making profit.

How can people say anything about Che being a "tad &#39;bourgeoise"" when he spent most his life in poor conditions or with his life on the line. He never attempted to make a profit from anything in his life after his motorcycle journeys. And as the rolex wasn&#39;t popular this is void anyway :P

Just to be the Stereotype....

Hasta La Victoria Siempre :)

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 12:00 AM

The Rolex was a gift, I think Che kept out out of respect for the person who gave it to him, but then again it might seem a tad &#39;bourgeoise"

Why? Would you have expected him to give up his Kalashnakov too? I think you underestimate the necessity of good timekeeping in a military campaign. Rolex has become a "designer" brand, but back in the day it was merely a high quality timepiece manufacturer.

Just because your a self-professed communist, doesn&#39;t mean you can&#39;t have functional items. I&#39;m sure, had you really needed a watch for whatever reason, he&#39;d have lent you it.
First of all I thought that Rolex always has been a "designer" brand, but Im probably wrong on that&#33;

Where do I say that Im a self-professed communist, I never said Im a communist all together, so try to keep those kind of judgements to yourself next time ;)

The thing I assumed with a Rolex was that it would just be a fancy expensive item, sort like "bling-bling" to rappers ;) but I might be wrong on that one&#33;

[DaCuBaN]

Where do I say that Im a self-professed communist

My phrasing was evidently poor: I was intimating that Dr Guevara was a self-professed communist, yet could have "nice" things


I assumed with a Rolex was that it would just be a fancy expensive item.

It was, but in much the same way that say, a combine harvester is a fancy expensive item. When you&#39;re trying to coordinate guerrlila warfare, you need to know the time&#33;

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 06:56 AM
How can people say anything about Che being a "tad &#39;bourgeoise"" when he spent most his life in poor conditions or with his life on the line. He never attempted to make a profit from anything in his life after his motorcycle journeys. And as the rolex wasn&#39;t popular this is void anyway :P


Can you be more exact on his life in "poor conditions"?

I will and forever will support Felix&#39;s actions. You and I would of done the same thing in his shoes.

[Thomas]

He spent his childhood in a bourgeoise society and lived happily there. But during and after his motorcycle journeys he tended to give away his posessions. Before and during the Cuban revolution he lived in slums, planning for the overthrowing of Batatista. I&#39;m not sure how he lived in Cuba after the revolution. But when he left Cuba he spent his life once again in slums and huts in the forest where the revolutionists were waging their guerilla campaing.

http://chehasta.narod.ru/boliv4.jpg

[sim22]

the story of the watch:
che recieved the watch as a present, the next time the person who gave it to him (i cant rememeber who) saw it, it had a leather band rather than the gold one, Che came up to him and gave him a reciept, he had donated the gold band to some charity thing and and put just a leather one on it. He kept the face so that he could read the time, nothing more. Again, i tell you people you read into things too much. And that bastard deserves to die (rodriguez) :angry:

[Colombia]

No, he does not deserve to die&#33;

[BrunoNYC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 02:21 PM
He took it because he was capitalist. He would have taken anything from Che&#39;s body if he thought he could sell it for a large profit.
That&#39;s not capitalism -- it&#39;s socialism (redistribution of wealth :-)

[RedAnarchist]

No it isnt, Rodriguez took it for his own selfish reasons, he didint sell it and give the money to starving children did he?

[fernando]

wouldnt that also be capitalist...the whole selling of the watch, hence making potential profit from it, eventhough you give it to those poor children. It would be &#39;socialist&#39; if you would give the watch itself away to the State, hence the watch would become property of the people, not just Che&#39;s or Felix&#39; or the poor children&#39;s.

[GoaRedStar]

socialism is capitalism without the capitalist.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Good grief, I loathe primativist "Communists".

Who the hell says a Communist can&#39;t own a decent watch?

Don&#39;t worry, post revolution the monetary value of a Rolex will no longer exist; making it possible for everyone to own the Cadillac of watches.

[Dysfunctional_Literate]

I agree. If communism does happen, all or most products would be well-constructed and work great just like Rolexs. But on the other hand Rolexs are mainly popular as a status symbol. Maybe he took it off of some wealthy capitalist as a trophy?

[Bealfan]

I don&#39;t think Felix Rodriguez really wanted to kill che., Even if he kept one of the 2 rolexes che wore, he wasn&#39;t the only one you know,....

But who really should be punished is the man who came up with the Idea of cutting che&#39;s hands so that he may not be identified... I think they thought that burying che in some known place would only make a pligrimage site.

Mario Teran is a pathetic figure. you know he was given minimal jobs to keep him down low. I think Jon Lee Anderson wanted to interview him and he asked for money. He really is a patetic figure&#33;

Now that I hear he has decided to write a book after so long.......I could only hope for a book that is so ull of shit .........Maybe he will even put some comic strips showing him as SuperMan, that man is really pathetic.

By the way, I am a commie , and I own a Breitling.......Does that make me a capitalist?

Hasta la Victoria Siempre&#33;

[Bealfan]

By the way, for these of you calling che a Tad burgois, did you know what he did when his friend gave him a golden watch....he went to the bank directly and gave the watch right away for the revolution. Now, does this guy&#39;s action make him what you are accusing him of being?>

[Anarchist Freedom]

wtf who cares if che wore a rolex I dont care if he wore his underwear on the outside of his pants its all good. My god see the real message his ACTIONS&#33;

[bubb&#1071;ubbgoeswoo]

So what he owned a rolex. Most people on this board own more useless things. Atleast he went out and tried to help people.What have most of yall done&#33;?

[JudgeKure]

Ill tell you what...

If I saw Che&#39;s Watch at an Auction...Imma put up everything I got for that shit...Maybe pass it down to future generations or something...

[Paradox]

he had donated the gold band to some charity thing and and put just a leather one on it.

Yeah, he switched the bands, donating the gold one to Cuba&#39;s gold reserves. The person who gave him that watch was Oscarito Fernandez Mell. Che was pretty strict about things like this. He made Aleida give up Italian shoes, and he made Orlando Borrego give a Jaguar sports car. Che told Borrego "You&#39;re a chulo- a pimp&#33;"

[Xanthor]

Maybe he took the rolex off of someone else&#39;s hand [not meant to be insulting or anything]. And for the chopping off the hands thing. They chopped his hands off so that they could take his fingerprints so they could identify his body.

[Big Boss]

In my opinion he was just carrying it around because it was gift and he respected that sort of stuff. Che used to give his new boots to fellow soldiers so that they would stretch them out first. And the boots he used were the cheepest made just like his cigars which were made by the most poor of the country. He didn&#39;t like wearing expensive stuff but a gift like that is something to be respected like he did by wearing it.

[Cal]

You&#39;re having a debate on what Che&#39;s choice of watch says about him as a person. I&#39;m sorry but it&#39;s a watch, probably one that kept good time (always handy in a watch)

Read some books or something.

I wonder what operating system we&#39;re all using on our computers and what that says about all of us.

[JudgeKure]

Yeah what the hell are yall talking about?


Just cause its a Rolex Che&#39;s not going to wear it?

Thats the stupidest shit I ever heard...He wasnt a fucking SAINT or anything...

[Rage Against the Right]

Rodriguez, could we send him a letter or something? I agree that after he set foor on the Granma Che was never a tad burgousie

[B_T_N_H]

It is only a watch,........Besides his actions speak more of him...

[encephalon]

materialism at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.

That said, che owning a rolex is really no different than any of us owning personal belongings. He was borne from the bourgeoisie, after all. Marx himself wrote many letters concerning his difficulty in shedding his bourgeoisie life, intellectually and materially. It isn&#39;t something humans are quite capable of: we are entirely products of the interplay between biology and environment.

I&#39;d like to meet a person that doesn&#39;t value some kind of commodity in today&#39;s atmosphere (excluding secluded amazon communities). To operate at all in this society--which is really required of us in order to alter/affect future society at all--we must necessarily adopt such things, by will not entirely of our own. Communism is built upon socialism, socialism upon capitalism. We really can&#39;t be otherwise, nor could che have been.

The apex isn&#39;t what we wear, though one should try to practice as he/she preaches, but what we work towards, by any means each individual is capable. Che was highly capable of infiltrating the consciousness of the masses, even within the imperialist enemy itself, and in this he was successful in his endeavor, regardless of whether or not he had a weakness for "fine" jewelry. Lenin wasn&#39;t the greatest sharpshooter, from what I understand, but a political wonderboy. He, too, successfully furthered the cause of communism, even though he had a weakness for living standards far above those of his comrades.

Marx had a weakness for commodities like a motherfucker (oh, and booze). Engels was, at least according to the standards of his time (and to many people today), a sexual deviant--though I really don&#39;t think such a thing exists if it doesn&#39;t involve exploitation, but granted my standards are lax compared to most people (though I doubt on this forum). Hell, Engels ran a business for profit.. which is the sole reason marxism exists today. Despite his glorification of the working class (righteously so, I might add), Marx had a sincere aversion to manual labor. He also didn&#39;t believe people should get inheritance--yet accepted inheritance with glee.

They all came from the bourgeoisie. Only now, I think, is the working populous *overall* able to become educated enough on their own to grasp communism, which generally correlates exactly to what Marx thought: it would be led first by a vanguard of bourgeois revolutionaries, until the working class is developed enough to rise on its own. He thought it would happen a lot faster, but you can&#39;t blame him for being hopeful.

Regardless, I&#39;m straying.. my point is that they came from the bourgeoisie, and it would be impossible for any of them to completely shed their beginnings, as it would be for any of us. Especially in the case of Che, what is important isn&#39;t his lingering bourgeoisie traits, but his revolutionary inspiration to the masses. Even if they don&#39;t know what communism really is or what che did, kids wear his face on their shirt in the heart of the enemy itself. That, I think, is the most important work of Che, even if he was not the ideal. None of us are. Through Che alone, people will discover communism in the most capitalist society to date. By infiltrating pop culture, he has made it widely available to anyone curious as to why his face is on a t-shirt in the first place. Before Che, communism played no part in pop culture oither than a convenient and blurred enemy that could lurk around the corner, waiting to just bomb little kids all to hell. For many, Che alone dispelled that myth. His revolutionary work, though many might debate this, furthered the cause of revolution much more than lenin or the USSR as a whole. With Che, communism no longer was just a vague political issue. It not only went into people&#39;s minds, in whatever fashion the capitalists wanted to make it out to be, but into their hearts. He successfully altered the collective consciousness of society itself, and cleared a path to revolution not available before, whether he intended it or not. By making his own life a commodity for the masses--the one thing that people desire under capitalism more than anything--he has furthered global revolution unlike anyone else.

So let the man wear his damn watch in peace. He wasn&#39;t perfect, but he was likely far better at living what he preached than any of us here, and likely any revolutionary before him. :) He did exactly what he could do best to further the cause, and for that alone he is vindicated of his bourgeoisie characteristics, however few.

[encephalon]

or, rather, not wear the watch.. but you get the idea.

[Hero_of_the_Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 09:16 AM
we are entirely products of the interplay between biology and environment.


The Greatest Statement Ever Made On Che-Lives.com

[Big Boss]

That is truly a great post, Encephalon&#33;

[sim22]

That was a really good point encephalon, it was long, but it made sense the whole way&#33; I might even quote some of what you say when im in an argument about this topic&#33; well done&#33;

[Taiga]

That was very passionate, Encephalon
100% true

[HuRTfuLsInS]

Originally posted by MILLEN&#045;@Dec 6 2004, 08:58 PM
Is this true ? "After the execution, Rodríguez took Che&#39;s Rolex watch, often proudly showing it to reporters during the ensuing years."
Did che had a rolex ? i&#39;m just curious.. if this is true it&#39;s simply disgusting the fact that rodriguez used something from che as an trophee.. ;)

sorry if this was already posted :&#092;
thats funny to believe. interesting q. though :P

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Originally posted by bubbЯ[email protected] 8 2005, 10:52 PM
So what he owned a rolex. Most people on this board own more useless things. Atleast he went out and tried to help people.What have most of yall done&#33;?
so...if Che had a mansion, 5 rolls royce&#39;s, tennis courts, etc. it&#39;d all be sanitized cuz he did so much for the exploited?

[bubb&#1071;ubbgoeswoo]

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 6+Jan 30 2005, 03:54 PM--> (Knowledge 6 6 6 @ Jan 30 2005, 03:54 PM)
bubbЯ[email protected] 8 2005, 10:52 PM
So what he owned a rolex. Most people on this board own more useless things. Atleast he went out and tried to help people.What have most of yall done&#33;?
so...if Che had a mansion, 5 rolls royce&#39;s, tennis courts, etc. it&#39;d all be sanitized cuz he did so much for the exploited? [/b]
Umm no, that would be a bit overboard.I was simply saying that the people who say it was ridiculous that he owned a rolex were making too big of a deal out of it.It was one small item.

[Le Libérer]

In Roberto Salas&#39; book Fidel&#39;s Cuba, Salas states Celia Sanchez, Fidels confidante, gave Salas a Rolex Submariner, on his return from Viet Nam as Cubas correspondant there during the war. The book also states, Fidel wore two watches while in the mountains just in case one of them stopped working. That way he would still be synchronized with the other rebels. (Adjoining pictures show his Rolex Submariner watch)

Conclusion: IMHO, those Rolex Submariner watches that are bringing condemation on this board, probably were vital in winning the revolution&#33;

[Cal]

Are you still going on about a watch,

IT&#39;S A WATCH, it tells the time.

I wear a watch, you all probably do too, mine was made in Switzerland,does it mean I condone the hoarding of German Jew&#39;s gold and paintings by the Nazis, NO it means I know when I&#39;ve missed my train.

[encephalon]

IT&#39;S A WATCH, it tells the time.

IT&#39;S A THREAD, the point is to talk about it regardless of the inanity.

[SpeCtrE]

I agree with Encephalon. It is only a watch.. I&#39;m sure che wore it because it told him time, not because he liked to look like 50 cent.

Didn&#39;t Che reprimand some communist because she wore too much jewllery? IN JLA&#39;s Book?

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 12:49 PM
I agree with Encephalon. It is only a watch.. I&#39;m sure che wore it because it told him time, not because he liked to look like 50 cent.

Didn&#39;t Che reprimand some communist because she wore too much jewllery? IN JLA&#39;s Book?
Did you read Encephalon&#39;s post??? lol.

I know it&#39;s just a watch, but it&#39;s a rolex. Rolex is like the Rolls Royce of watches...I mean, let&#39;s say Che didn&#39;t own the damn watch and owned a Rolls Royce instead. Would you treat the situation differently? After all...a car just gets you from point A to point B.

Rolex prices are usually in the 10s of thousands. I think many here are underestimating the statement wearing a Rolex makes.

So it was a gift. Does it justify it? I dunno, I mean...I&#39;m vegetarian yet I recieved a leather jacket as a gift. What would you say to that?

[Cal]

know it&#39;s just a watch, but it&#39;s a rolex. Rolex is like the Rolls Royce of watches...I mean, let&#39;s say Che didn&#39;t own the damn watch and owned a Rolls Royce instead

but he didn&#39;t he owned A WATCH


I think many here are underestimating the statement wearing a Rolex makes.

No, I think you&#39;re overestimating it.


I&#39;m vegetarian yet I recieved a leather jacket as a gift. What would you say to that?

I&#39;d say nice jacket, does it keep you warm.


I support Everton Football Club and once I enjoyed a Liverpool match, what a traitor I am&#33;

[encephalon]

I think many here are underestimating the statement wearing a Rolex makes.


This, I think is actually a valid point, as focoism is all about inspiring the masses to join.. such an act as wearing a rolex doesn&#39;t exactly send a consistent message to the masses.

That said.. there are cheaper versions of rolex too. Many middle class families have them. I&#39;m not even sure if Rolex was as "prestigious" as it is now. But, apart from perhaps working against him where focoism is concerned, by discarding of the watch, he would be discarding a material object that was perfectly good for use. The message of wearing it aside, I assume if he was given a swatch instead of a rolex he would have worn it if it accurately told time as Throwing the watch away would in a sense be throwing away the labor of those who built it.

[SpeCtrE]

I&#39;m sure che didn&#39;t buy the watch himself.

But are you telling us that when you asked for food , you would decline if you were given something more expensive, saying that you would rather eat bread only as you are a communist.

Think about it. If I was given a choice I would choose a rolex over a bretling,

[UtopicImperium]

I can&#39;t believe this thread is still alive...and i cant believe i&#39;ll post something...

I think that watch was given to Che by his father. When Che&#39;s parents went to visit him on Cuba after the victory of the revolution, Che and his father exchanged their watches when his father was about to go back to Argentina.

[encephalon]

I say we keep this thread going as long as humanly possible. Then people will think there&#39;s something to it.

[Anarcho-Communist]

its true he did take his rolex
i dont know how good u can feel using the watch as a trophy of his death


we should hunt him down and kill him

Peace, Love, Empathy

[gnat]

I will and forever will support Felix&#39;s actions. You and I would of done the same thing in his shoes.

Care to elaborate?

[Anarcho-Communist]

I reckon its sad how you can use someones possetions as trophys&#33;

Peace, Love, Empathy

[siddhartha]

One thing to keep in mind is that at this time in history, Rolex was one of more than a few watches known for their ability to keep accurate time, with little worry of breakdown. They were NOT the status symbols they are today, and were priced more in line with the other quality watches of the time. Think about it-this was before digital watches became ubiquitous.

The fact that Che wore a Rolex (a GMT Master) merely indicates that he had a need for a quality watch that told accurate time. It needed to perform without problem, and with little chance of breaking down. Yes, they still were relatively expensive at the time, but not like today, and not if you consider buying several watches that break down every few years. Also, Rolex could be serviced through any dealer, anywhere-not like many others.

If you research Rolex, you will realize that yes, they do have fashionable, expensive models, and today, all of them are indeed expensive. However, their sports line are in essence "tool" watches-made simply, for a specific purpose, which they do well. The fact that they are now priced out of the stratosphere is a recent phenomena, and not accurate at the time of Che&#39;s death

Take care,

Chris

[JDT]

Actually, the Rolex Submariner has always been one of rolex's cheaper watches when compared to their many and much more expensive models. If Che had worn a gold Rolex Presidential with diamonds then perhaps people who would criticize him for having a Rolex would be on firmer ground.


I have a photo of Che lighting a cigar while wearing a Rolex Submariner but I don't know how to upload it here. It appears to have a black bezel and face along with a standard metal Rolex bracelet.

[thescarface1989]

omg! Yes he did wear a rolex, it is now in Felix Rodriguez's possession, the man who ordered his execution, he considers it his "trophy".The watch was given to Che by a Man named Oscarito Fernandez Mell, he switched the band with a leather one, donating the gold one to Cuba's gold reserves. Che was pretty strict about things like this. He made Aleida (his wife) give up Italian shoes, and he made Orlando Borrego give up a Jaguar sports car.