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Arminius
5th December 2004, 00:27
Language may shape human thought


http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996303

19:00 19 August 04

NewScientist.com news service

Language may shape human thought suggests a counting study in a Brazilian tribe whose language does not define numbers above two.

Hunter-gatherers from the Pirah tribe, whose language only contains words for the numbers one and two, were unable to reliably tell the difference between four objects placed in a row and five in the same configuration, revealed the study.

Experts agree that the startling result provides the strongest support yet for the controversial hypothesis that the language available to humans defines our thoughts. So-called linguistic determinism was first proposed in 1950 but has been hotly debated ever since.

It is a very surprising and very important result, says Lisa Feigenson, a developmental psychologist at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, US, who has tested babies abilities to distinguish between different numerical quantities. Whether language actually allows you to have new thoughts is a very controversial issue.

Peter Gordon, the psychologist at Columbia University in New York City who carried out the experiment, does not claim that his finding holds for all kinds of thought. There are certainly things that we can think about that we cannot talk about. But for numbers I have shown that a limitation in language affects cognition, he says.


One, two, many


The language, Pirah, is known as a one, two, many language because it only contains words for one and twofor all other numbers, a single word for many is used. There are not really occasions in their daily lives where the Pirah need to count, explains Gordon.

In order to test if this prevented members of the tribe from perceiving higher numbers, Gordon set seven Pirah a variety of tasks. In the simplest, he sat opposite an individual and laid out a random number of familiar objects, including batteries, sticks and nuts, in a row. The Pirah were supposed to respond by laying out the same number of objects from their own pile.

For one, two and three objects, members of the tribe consistently matched Gordons pile correctly. But for four and five and up to ten, they could only match it approximately, deviating more from the correct number as the row got longer.

The Pirah also failed to remember whether a box they had been shown seconds ago had four or five fish drawn on the top. When Gordons colleagues tapped on the floor three times, the Pirah were able to imitate this precisely, but failed to mimic strings of four of five taps.


Babies and animals


Gordon says this is the first convincing evidence that a language lacking words for certain concepts could actually prevent speakers of the language from understanding those concepts.

Previous experiments show that while babies and intelligent animals, such as rats, pigeons and monkeys, are capable of precisely counting small quantities, they can only approximately distinguish between clusters consisting of larger numbers. However, in these studies it was unclear whether an inability to articulate numbers was the reason for this.

The Pirah results provide a much stronger case for linguistic determinism, says Gordon, because, aside from their language, they are otherwise similar to other adult humans, whereas there are many more factors that separate babies and animals from adult humans.

However, scientists are far from a consensus. Feigenson points out that there could be other reasons, aside from pure language, why the Pirah could not distinguish accurately for higher numbers including not being used to dealing with large numbers or set such tasks.

The question remains highly controversial, says psychologist Randy Gallistel of Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey. But this work will spark a great deal of discussion.

antieverything
5th December 2004, 06:20
Nothing new...

Latifa
7th December 2004, 01:56
Have you never read 1984?

Raisa
7th December 2004, 03:19
Yes I have. "words are thoughts"

This is really true I believe.

We have alot of thoughts in our heads. It is alot easyer to recognize our own thoughts and be familiar with them when we are more familiar with words that we can call our thoughts.

Some things in our heads are just simple pictures and sounds,like a "dog" and other things are so complex, like "exsistentialism" and I bet if you could just say existentialism in your head when dealing with the concept, as opposed to thinking about a crazy image of the concept that you developed in your mind every time , maybe you can think clearer and reach new conclusions alot better and move on.

When you know more words then you can think more clearly and reach new concepts alot easyer....and..you can share them with other people..and you can listen to theirs. We can expand our minds alot better when we know more words to help us think and destinguish our thoughts.

Can you imagine a world where people are all able to just think this way, where we are all more intouch with our brains? Imagine the hieghts we can reach together!

This is why I think illiteracy is such a sad situatuon.
It gets in peoples way of excellence, and of being contious of their amazing thoughts.
You cant think as clearly, and you can get discouraged and think less of yourself and not even want to bother with too many complex thoughts.
It gives you a poor self image that makes you feel intellectually inferior.
Illiteracy holds alot of people back. :(

JokingClown
7th December 2004, 07:36
I was just about to mention doublespeak myself..

Latifa
7th December 2004, 23:37
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 07:36 AM
I was just about to mention doublespeak myself..
Newspeak. Sorry I just had to correct you :lol:

guerillablack
14th January 2005, 16:20
How do you learn more words? I mean i know alot, but i probably only use only 40% of my word bank.

The Garbage Disposal Unit
14th January 2005, 23:01
I don't think this necessarily provides a case for linguistic determinism - it just demonstrates a common sense fact as to the usefulness of language.

For example, it is not imposible for me to comprehend that which I lack words for (Human thought would be dreadfully handicapped, and the advance of ideas all but imposible), but words offer a method by which I can arrange ideas.

If one lacked numbers above two, "One two many many many many" - it would become difficult, just in practical terms, to remember how many numbers one was dealing with. It would not prevent me from, however, being able to generate language terms to reflect my understandings of those numbers.

Words spring from internal understandings and inherent grammar-frameworks - and not vice versa!

che's long lost daughter
15th January 2005, 08:48
Hasn't language already shaped human thoughts???

Motorcycle_diAries
25th January 2005, 11:31
Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 15 2005, 08:48 AM
Hasn't language already shaped human thoughts???
Oh yea, it already has shaped it. :)

Severian
25th January 2005, 16:34
Originally posted by Virgin Molotov [email protected] 14 2005, 05:01 PM
I don't think this necessarily provides a case for linguistic determinism - it just demonstrates a common sense fact as to the usefulness of language.

For example, it is not imposible for me to comprehend that which I lack words for (Human thought would be dreadfully handicapped, and the advance of ideas all but imposible), but words offer a method by which I can arrange ideas.

If one lacked numbers above two, "One two many many many many" - it would become difficult, just in practical terms, to remember how many numbers one was dealing with. It would not prevent me from, however, being able to generate language terms to reflect my understandings of those numbers.

Words spring from internal understandings and inherent grammar-frameworks - and not vice versa!
And even more simply, if you don't have words for higher numbers, you probably haven't had much practice counting. While most people get lots of practice even as babies.

It's an interesting result, but I'd say more work is needed to see how much it means.