ETA is not defeated

[PRC-UTE]

ETA Seals Off Madrid with 5 Bombs, 2 Police Hurt (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6992549)

Senior ETA suspect on hunger strike in French jail (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L03643726.htm)

Amnesty accuses Spain of ignoring torture victims (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3117392a12,00.html)

Clearly the ETA haven't been defeated despite Spain's rhetoric.

What do people think about the ETA, the bombing of Madrid, etc?

I think it was a great message.

[PRC-UTE]

ETA Bombs Put Radical Basque Party in Tight Spot (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=302634)
MADRID (Reuters) - The armed Basque separatist group ETA showed it was not a spent force with Friday's coordinated attacks at five Madrid petrol stations, but it also further isolated the guerrillas' closest political allies, Batasuna.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Wow, nationalism. Sooo progressive. <_< :rolleyes:

[PRC-UTE]

Wow, nationalism. Sooo progressive.

I&#39;m honestly shocked that you would choose the &#39;nationalism&#39; of the Basque to comment upon.

It seems it&#39;s the nationalism of the Spanish which is the problem.

The Basque country was its own republic during the Civil War. It was reconquered by the fascists and the people there were treated like a conquered nation. The ETA launched a war of resistance against the fascists in the &#39;60s.

The Spanish gov&#39;t&#39;s since the fall of Franco&#39;s regime have inherited the same policy towards the people of the Basque country. In general, I think it&#39;s a good idea for leftists to oppose the policy of fascists, rather than mock their victims for being nationalist.

[between]

ETA is a reactive(to fascim) movement and have tendencies to be to nationalis (baskis).
don&#39;t become what you fight against . i know people in vitoria and they are cool.

[h&s]

I think it was a great message.

I think the idea of killing innocnet people indiscriminatley is disgusting.
I can&#39;t think of a worse way to promote a cause by trying to kill the working class people needed to support you.

[PRC-UTE]

I think the idea of killing innocnet people indiscriminatley is disgusting.
I can&#39;t think of a worse way to promote a cause by trying to kill the working class people needed to support you.

I don&#39;t know why you said that. They didn&#39;t kill anyone in this bombing. They did injure two policemen though.

The Spanish fascists have been bragging that the ETA is defeated. . . and then the ETA explodes five bombs in their capital. :P I think it made the authorities look like real asses. :ph34r:

[bolshevik butcher]

ETA was good when it was fighting Franco, but in modern day Spain terrorism is not a good way of going about gaining independance

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 6 2004, 06:20 PM
ETA was good when it was fighting Franco, but in modern day Spain terrorism is not a good way of going about gaining independance
It&#39;s not as if much has changed for the Basques since the days of Franco. The first bourgeois democratic governments to appear after Franco&#39;s death, including supposedly Socialist ones, continued to use Francoist tactics against the Basques to keep them down. The &#39;socialist&#39; government under Gonzalez even set up the paramilitary GAL to fight a dirty war against Basque pro-freedom activists.

[bolshevik butcher]

conghaileach, wouldn&#39;t it be far moren productive for ETA too form some sort of conventional political party rather than hurting innocent civilians?

[h&s]

I don&#39;t know why you said that. They didn&#39;t kill anyone in this bombing. They did injure two policemen though.
Is that even the point? The point is that even if they didn&#39;t mean to kill anyone, they could have. These bombs were clearly designed to send out a message to the people of Madrid that ETA is not defeated, as if it is ETA versus the people of Madrid. By doing this they are actively working against the working class in Madrid.

[PRC-UTE]

conghaileach, wouldn&#39;t it be far moren productive for ETA too form some sort of conventional political party rather than hurting innocent civilians?

Their political ally is the party &#39;Batasuna&#39;.

It doesn&#39;t matter if there&#39;s a Basque independence party or not, as the Spanish refuse to negotiate with them.


These bombs were clearly designed to send out a message to the people of Madrid that ETA is not defeated, as if it is ETA versus the people of Madrid. By doing this they are actively working against the working class in Madrid.

They&#39;re not &#39;actively working against the working class&#39; - it&#39;s in the interest of the working class to end imperialism. Any worker who supports fascist policies, such as Spain&#39;s tactics against the Basque people, are traitors or fools who&#39;ve been duped.

[PRC-UTE]

Spanish press fury over Eta bombs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4075473.stm)

Spanish papers express their anger and contempt for the Basque separatist group Eta, which detonated several bombs across Spain on Monday.

Some papers are also scornful of Eta&#39;s political wing, Batasuna.

A Basque nationalist daily argues however for an understanding of the political reasons behind the conflict in the region.


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Eta is a constant and direct threat to the safety of Spaniards, and the succession of police blows against its structure does not mean it has finally been dismantled... The path taken by the state in recent years is the only one that can lead to a definite and unconditional end to terrorism. The political unity between the government and the opposition is decisive, in that it shows Eta an unbroken front.

Madrid&#39;s ABC


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Eta&#39;s terrorism will remain a threat as long as the gang exists. Each of the devices its macabre timer set off yesterday carried a lethal charge. Society - and political leaders especially - must not turn a deaf ear to the warnings that terrorism placed in so many and such distant cities. But society can face the period that remains to put a definitive end to Eta, secure in the knowledge that the triumph of reason and peace is already in the hands of democracy.

Bilbao&#39;s El Correo


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This year, the Day of the Constitution [6 December] was dominated by a debate on its reform. The interference by Eta, when the issues are being discussed peacefully, has illustrated the anachronistic character of this gang. It also makes the idea of demilitarising the conflict while talks take place absurd. There is only one armed party, Eta, and for that reason demilitarisation depends on it alone.

Madrid&#39;s El Pais


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Those who kill to attain their ideals are fanatics. But those who fuel the hatred of those who use violence and endanger democratic coexistence are playing with fire. The constitution deserves respect, among other reasons, because it guarantees the rights of the minorities who seek to destroy it.

Madrid&#39;s El Mundo


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Eta&#39;s actions are significant because of their timing. Three weeks after Arnaldo Otegi [leader of Eta&#39;s political wing, Batasuna] said it was opting for the &#39;peaceful route&#39; while not condemning violence, the terrorists have sent, with their devices, a message that complicates the stance of the outlawed and not very independent Batasuna. The calls for unity against terrorism, and for not allowing it to dictate the political agenda, cannot be allowed to remain just words. All parties face the challenge of not falling into a trap which would poison the relationships between the regions of Spain.

Barcelona&#39;s El Periodico


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Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero expressed his confidence that Eta will soon put an end to violence and lay down its weapons because it has no other fate. A condemnation by Batasuna of the gang&#39;s latest actions would have been very helpful to that aim, marking a decisive step towards Eta&#39;s definitive political and social isolation. But yet again the group led by Arnaldo Otegi demonstrates - through silence - its reprehensible complicity with those who plant the bombs. Nothing new.

Barcelona&#39;s La Vanguardia


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As so often, many of the political organisations of the Basque Country and the Spanish state highlighted Eta&#39;s actions, which may have been logical on a day like yesterday. But they habitually strive to conceal the political reasons that led to the birth of this organisation and prevent the establishment of mechanisms that could enable its disappearance. It is a contradiction that will have to be resolved if there is a desire to put an end, genuinely and for ever, to such a long and painful conflict.

San Sebastian&#39;s Gara


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BBC Monitoring, based in Caversham in southern England, selects and translates information from radio, television, press, news agencies and the Internet from 150 countries in more than 70 languages.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 7 2004, 04:47 PM
conghaileach, wouldn&#39;t it be far moren productive for ETA too form some sort of conventional political party rather than hurting innocent civilians?
Well, I wouldn&#39;t be one to tell the Basques (or the Iraqis or the Palestinians, or anyone else for that matter) how to wage their own struggle for national liberation but the form the struggle takes depends on the way the oppressor acts.

The unfortunate fact is that ETA&#39;s struggle may be going nowhere, and attacks such as these may simply be little more than spectacles to prove that they&#39;re still around and that they&#39;ll never be crushed (kind of like the IRA campaign in London in the early 90s).

ETA have tried talking to the Madrid government, but their only concern is with crushing any symbol of Basque separatism and not budging an inch. If this kind of antagonistic approach continues then in a few years time ETA will be rejuvenated by a new influx of members and a whole new campaign will open up. As I said, it&#39;s up to the Madrid government to make a move.

[DaCuBaN]

What do people think about the ETA

I think the question that needs to be asked is this: Will their actions bring Spain any closer to revolution, or have the opposite effect?

I think, in all honesty, that much like the call for "independance" from so many different parts of the globe is nothing but raw, unadulterated nationalism: Pride in one&#39;s "people", one&#39;s "land".

I&#39;m sorry, but living in the UK (and hence being a human mongrel, much as I suspect you all are) it all seems like so much rubbish. What difference would a Basque state make over a Spanish one? Are the Basque somehow "more revolutionary" than their "neighbours"? Didn&#39;t think so...

Last time I checked, our enemy was capitalism and it&#39;s symptoms, one of which just happens to be patriotism. What is the call for "independance" in this fashion, but patriotism subdued? Why should we be called to support that?

The short fact of the matter is that they not only want to change their "political affiliation" (which, had they been truly "revolutionary", they would have realised meant absolutely jack shit) but they wish to segregate their society from the "evil spaniards"

Much as we see from Ireland to Britain. It&#39;s all bullshit posturing, and the sooner we get it out the way and focus on capitalism the better.

[PRC-UTE]

The short fact of the matter is that they not only want to change their "political affiliation" (which, had they been truly "revolutionary", they would have realised meant absolutely jack shit) but they wish to segregate their society from the "evil spaniards"


The Eta started their campaign to be free from Franco. You&#39;re not seriously suggesting there&#39;s no diff between fascist rule and a socialist republic, are you? <_<


I think, in all honesty, that much like the call for "independance" from so many different parts of the globe is nothing but raw, unadulterated nationalism: Pride in one&#39;s "people", one&#39;s "land".


Well no, it&#39;s not. I don&#39;t know about other places, but in Ireland most volunteers joined the IRA or INLA to get revenge against people who attacked their community, or to defend their neighbours. If people want to seperate themselves from states that oppress their people, I don&#39;t see how that equals &#39;pride in one&#39;s "people"&#39; - not wanting to see their friends and family tortured makes them a nationalist???&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:


What difference would a Basque state make over a Spanish one? Are the Basque somehow "more revolutionary" than their "neighbours"? Didn&#39;t think so...


That&#39;s what Marx argued -- oppressed minorities/nationalities usually are more open to radical politics.

[DaCuBaN]

You&#39;re not seriously suggesting there&#39;s no diff between fascist rule and a socialist republic, are you?

Actually, no; I&#39;m echoing the sentiment:


The first bourgeois democratic governments to appear after Franco&#39;s death, including supposedly Socialist ones, continued to use Francoist tactics against the Basques to keep them down. The &#39;socialist&#39; government under Gonzalez even set up the paramilitary GAL to fight a dirty war against Basque pro-freedom activists.

:)

You see, there&#39;s no difference between one "ruler" and another, irregardless of their assumed ideology. It comes down to wanting to be ruled by your "own kind", whoever the hell they are.

As a mongrel, this strikes me as absurd.


in Ireland most volunteers joined the IRA or INLA to get revenge against people who attacked their community, or to defend their neighbours.

We&#39;ve discussed that one an awful lot... :lol:

Excuse my use of subjective terms, but what "good" comes from revenge? What exactly does it achieve? As for defending your neighbours - in the case of N.Ireland your neighbours are oft fighting on the other side. Just as frequently, people will join to kill their neighbours as to protect them - again, it&#39;s a case of "keeping with one&#39;s own" - it&#39;s bullshit posturing.


If people want to seperate themselves from states that oppress their people, I don&#39;t see how that equals &#39;pride in one&#39;s "people"&#39; - not wanting to see their friends and family tortured makes them a nationalist???&#33;&#33;&#33;

My emphasis added.

The ruling classes of the British Empire have been tortuting and killing their "subjects" throughout their history - be they of Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Indian, Chinese or indeed any other "nationality": It&#39;s all the same.

What needs done is not the fragmentation at the present moment: That leaves the same amount of rulers, with a smaller pool of victims each time a section breaks off, or worse yet creates a whole new set of rulers with a naive and hopeful set of subjects, just ripe for abuse. In essence, fighting for freedom in such a manner is condemning your "comrades" to subjugation, using "nationalism" as an excuse for such thoughtlessness.


oppressed minorities/nationalities usually are more open to radical politics.

Agreed - and the last thing we need to do is to poison them with ideas like "Spanish=evil, Basque=good" or "British=evil, Irish=Good" or "English=evil, Scottish=good".

Quite simply, it&#39;s a lie.

[PRC-UTE]

You see, there&#39;s no difference between one "ruler" and another, irregardless of their assumed ideology. It comes down to wanting to be ruled by your "own kind", whoever the hell they are.

As a mongrel, this strikes me as absurd.


There&#39;s no comparing anti-imperialist forces to imperialist conquerers. Also, when imperialist forces are defeated, it causes a lot of shake-up and radicalism in the occupiers home country, ie: the American &#39;60s and &#39;70s.

You keep making this some racial issue. I don&#39;t care if you&#39;re a Saxon or a Gael; I care whether or not you support imperialism.


We&#39;ve discussed that one an awful lot...

You don&#39;t have to participate if it makes you uncomfortable, but this is a discussion board for politics, comrade.


Excuse my use of subjective terms, but what "good" comes from revenge? What exactly does it achieve?

The English cannot do what they used to get away with. They couldn&#39;t defeat Irish Republicans. They once tortured Gerry Adams abu garib style -- now they have to sit across from him at the negotiating table.

I don&#39;t endorse the &#39;peace process&#39; -- it&#39;s a secatarian, colonial agreement, but it&#39;s true to say that conditions have changed to the point where the English can&#39;t just beat the Irish into submission.

There was once a mural in Derry that said &#39;god made the catholics but the armalite made them equal&#39;. Well, not yet, but they&#39;ll be equal one day.


As for defending your neighbours - in the case of N.Ireland your neighbours are oft fighting on the other side. Just as frequently, people will join to kill their neighbours as to protect them - again, it&#39;s a case of "keeping with one&#39;s own" - it&#39;s bullshit posturing.

No, that&#39;s not what happened in Free Derry. The occupied six aren&#39;t the Balkans.

[DaCuBaN]

I don&#39;t care if you&#39;re a Saxon or a Gael; I care whether or not you support imperialism.

Quite right, too.

The problem lies here though: Whilst the occupation of N.Ireland is indeed just that, and I have said many a time that N.Ireland shouldn&#39;t be in the United Kingdom (just as I feel the Basque territories shouldn&#39;t be part of Spain) the fact of the matter is that they are, and we&#39;ve pretty much got to deal with it.

Sure, we could spend our time trying to fragment, and yes we&#39;re likely to get more support in this manner - there are many out there who do see this as a "x nationality vs y natinoality" and they will side against their respectives foes.

Once it&#39;s all settled down, where does this leave us? Back where we started. Imperialism is gone, but capitalism, oppression, subjugation, war, wage-slavery and so on all still exist. The people weren&#39;t fighting to end capitalism, but to get rid of y nationality.

If your goal is to end british imperialism alone, then so be it, and good luck to you - but if you wish to end capitalism, surely it&#39;s all a little dishonest?


You keep making this some racial issue.

Because whilst you might have realised that "the box doesn&#39;t exist" and thus can freely think outwith it, many more have not. To them, it is a racial issue.


The English cannot do what they used to get away with. They couldn&#39;t defeat Irish Republicans. They once tortured Gerry Adams abu garib style -- now they have to sit across from him at the negotiating table.

All nice and good, but how does this help to end capitalism? The only thing that will come from this is the transferral of ownership of your labour from London to Dublin or Belfast.


I don&#39;t endorse the &#39;peace process&#39; -- it&#39;s a secatarian, colonial agreement, but it&#39;s true to say that conditions have changed to the point where the English can&#39;t just beat the Irish into submission.

So the unionists - predominantly Saxon - count as English or Irish in your book?


There was once a mural in Derry that said &#39;god made the catholics but the armalite made them equal&#39;. Well, not yet, but they&#39;ll be equal one day.

Of course, we hit on the other root of the problem here - religion. I don&#39;t know if I ever mentioned it, but I&#39;m the product of a marriage between a catholic and a protestant in Glasgow, and to be honest, what&#39;s the big fucking deal? Both are as nutty as each other. My "blood" comes from across western europe: Spain, France, Germany, Italy, England, Scotland, Ireland, Norway - there&#39;s very little I
don&#39;t have in me. Again, what&#39;s the big deal?

No war for religion, no war for nationalism: The only war is class war. You cannot end imperialism by playing it at it&#39;s own game. Fighting for "self determination" is only worthwile when being done
in the name of the proletariat and by the proletariat. In the instance of N.Ireland, it&#39;s being done in the name of the Irish, of the Catholic, and similarly for spain in the name of the Basque.

I repeat, it&#39;s bullshit posturing.

[PRC-UTE]

The problem lies here though: Whilst the occupation of N.Ireland is indeed just that, and I have said many a time that N.Ireland shouldn&#39;t be in the United Kingdom (just as I feel the Basque territories shouldn&#39;t be part of Spain) the fact of the matter is that they are, and we&#39;ve pretty much got to deal with it.

I see your point, but the fact is also that the Basque seperatists and Irish seperatists will not be defeated. The English have tried for 800 years and can&#39;t subdue us.

I would personally like to see &#39;a new departure&#39; in Irish and Basque republican politics. We can&#39;t beat the invader out. As you said in your last message, the class war should take center-stage.


If your goal is to end british imperialism alone, then so be it, and good luck to you - but if you wish to end capitalism, surely it&#39;s all a little dishonest?

No, I agree with your point here. I&#39;m a &#39;Connollyite&#39; -- as the man said, you can remove the union jack, but until you remove capitalism you won&#39;t be free. That&#39;s why I support the movement that is both republican and socialist.


So the unionists - predominantly Saxon - count as English or Irish in your book?

No, they&#39;ve lived in Ireland too long to be anything but Irish. I have protestant relatives, and it&#39;s not an issue to me.

Interesting side note: immigrant families that have children in the six counties usually find that they&#39;re children consider themselves Irish. Not &#39;ulster british saxon scots irish&#39; but simply Irish. Many take up Gaelic Football and learn Gaeilge.

The fact is, most loyalists are of gaelic/Irish roots -- one of the infamous loyalist butchers&#39; last name was Murphy. I don&#39;t care what someone&#39;s ancestory is.

Most unionists however are descended from landed aristocrats -- and are usually of English roots with relatives across the sea.

It doesn&#39;t matter of course. They live in Ireland so they&#39;re Irish, no matter how much they hate the native culture.


QUOTE
There was once a mural in Derry that said &#39;god made the catholics but the armalite made them equal&#39;. Well, not yet, but they&#39;ll be equal one day.

Of course, we hit on the other root of the problem here - religion. I don&#39;t know if I ever mentioned it, but I&#39;m the product of a marriage between a catholic and a protestant in Glasgow, and to be honest, what&#39;s the big fucking deal? Both are as nutty as each other.

I don&#39;t care for one religion or another. I was raised Catholic but you couldn&#39;t get me inside a chapel. I agree that they&#39;re all &#39;as nutty as each other&#39;.

The real point was that people who happen to be Catholic are treated as second class citizens in the northern six counties. Catholics are still twice as likely to be unemployed, much more likely to get hassled by the pigs, etc.

The last few decades of struggle in Ireland were not so much republicanism v loyalism as it was the underdogs fighting for their rights. Look how anxious many were to have the peace process -- in fact that was initiated by Irish republicans.

[h&s]

I would personally like to see &#39;a new departure&#39; in Irish and Basque republican politics. We can&#39;t beat the invader out. As you said in your last message, the class war should take center-stage.

So why do you support the separatist ETA?
I have no problem with the idea of Basque liberation, but it should be a liberation from capitalism only. If the Basque groups were to work with Spanish leftist groups, maybe they&#39;d get somewhere.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 11:51 PM
I think, in all honesty, that much like the call for "independance" from so many different parts of the globe is nothing but raw, unadulterated nationalism: Pride in one&#39;s "people", one&#39;s "land".
I think that there are two types of nationalism: the nationalism of the oppressed, and the nationalism of the &#39;free&#39;. Obviosuly, German nationalism and British nationalism (which seems a common affliction among much of the left in England) are different concepts from Irish nationalism or Palestinian/Arab nationalism.

The nationalism of the &#39;free&#39; is usually little more than national chauvinism, jingoism. The nationalism of the &#39;oppressed&#39;, on the other hand, usually finds expression as the right of a particular nation to be free from imperialist domination - anti-imperialism, basically.

This of course isn&#39;t always the case. An oppressed people can be succeptible as much to xenophobia (or a nationalism similar to that of the &#39;free&#39; nations, at any rate) as to revolutionary politics. While this rears its head all over the world, whether it be in Palestine or Iraq or Ireland or the Basque country, reactionary politics usually aren&#39;t that widespread.

In terms of the Basques, I personally have never ran into a more genuinely internationalist people than the many Basque nationalists/separatists/republicans (whatever term you want to use) I&#39;ve had the pleasure of meeting.

You may believe it to be reactionary, or "bullshit posturing", but as Lenin said imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism. A fundamental piece of defeating capitalism is defeating imperialism, which means supporting the rights of all nations to be free. This is why we all support the resistance to the occupation of Iraq, regardless of what aspect of that resistance we support.


If socialists abandon national liberation struggles then they will become little more than bourgeois democratic, ultimately capitalist, revolutions.

[PRC-UTE]

So why do you support the separatist ETA?

I don&#39;t desire for any anti-imperialist group to be defeated.

I don&#39;t believe that the tactics of the Eta will work. Yet Madrid will not negotiate and won&#39;t create a new viable option.

What I would prefer to see happen there is something simliar to what the IRSP are attempting to do in the context of Ireland: not give up anti-imperialism, yet work for an openly working class and marxist approach to the problem. I think a more consistently socialist programme to defeat imperialism is preferable. And the only way to liberate Ireland (and probably the Basque country).

However I won&#39;t condemn a group of people who are basically defending themselves from aggression. Even the Irish anarchist group, the WSM have made statements to that effect. I don&#39;t feel I have the right to tell them what to do anymore than I can tell the British left what to do.

Coinghaileach as usual said it more eloquently than I. ;)


I have no problem with the idea of Basque liberation, but it should be a liberation from capitalism only. If the Basque groups were to work with Spanish leftist groups, maybe they&#39;d get somewhere.

:blink: What about liberation from imperialism, torture, and the all-around fascist way the Spanish government treats the Basque country? What if that is a useful step that leads to revolution? That&#39;s often been the case in history.

I&#39;m wondering something here . . . do you actually deny that there are &#39;nations&#39;? I notice that critics of national liberation movements often retreat into academic theories that have little to do with the conversation. Whilst I don&#39;t support the political platform of nationalism, I recognise that nationalities exist and frequently oppress each other. I work to see an end to that. Similiarly, I don&#39;t believe that race is anything but a social construct, yet the effects of racism are real and must be fought.

[DaCuBaN]

I think that there are two types of nationalism: the nationalism of the oppressed, and the nationalism of the &#39;free&#39;. Obviosuly, German nationalism and British nationalism (which seems a common affliction among much of the left in England) are different concepts from Irish nationalism or Palestinian/Arab nationalism.

The nationalism of the &#39;free&#39; is usually little more than national chauvinism, jingoism. The nationalism of the &#39;oppressed&#39;, on the other hand, usually finds expression as the right of a particular nation to be free from imperialist domination - anti-imperialism, basically.

This of course isn&#39;t always the case. An oppressed people can be succeptible as much to xenophobia (or a nationalism similar to that of the &#39;free&#39; nations, at any rate) as to revolutionary politics. While this rears its head all over the world, whether it be in Palestine or Iraq or Ireland or the Basque country, reactionary politics usually aren&#39;t that widespread.

In terms of the Basques, I personally have never ran into a more genuinely internationalist people than the many Basque nationalists/separatists/republicans (whatever term you want to use) I&#39;ve had the pleasure of meeting.

In regards to your last comment, I can say likewise for those I&#39;ve met who are in support of Irish republicanism/seperatism - truly some of the finest, most rational people I&#39;ve had the pleasure of meeting: I look toward the "other side", and see discorcance, hatred, bitterness and irrationality...

In effect, I agree - and thank you for this post, it&#39;s cleared up a lot for me.

[bolshevik butcher]

palistine is a totally different situatuation to the basques. I want to see an independant socialist Scotland should I take up arms? ETA merely harms the Basque partys.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 9 2004, 08:18 PM
palistine is a totally different situatuation to the basques. I want to see an independant socialist Scotland should I take up arms? ETA merely harms the Basque partys.
I&#39;m no expert on the situation in the Basque country, but the Spanish governments recently have been able to have Basque parties banned for not denouncing terrorism harshly enough (ETA terrorism, of course, not Spanish state terror). They&#39;ve done the same with Basque newspapers. The Spanish government doesn&#39;t seem to be giving the Basques much room to manoeuvre, and forcing them into a corner like this is what leads to ETA actions such as those reported above.

Whether it&#39;s right or wrong, I don&#39;t want to get into that. The bombings were used to bring attention to their issue, not to kill anyone.

There&#39;s a saying in Ireland heard every once in a while that our greatest enemy is British imperialism, but our greatest ally is the British working class. There are many among the left in England, Scotland and Wales who support the Irish struggle for independence and socialism. I feel that the Spanish left (and the Catalan left as well, to a degree) needs to do more to get behind the Basque struggle.

[bolshevik butcher]

exactley, so ETA is having a dertremental effect on the Basque parties, as for Northen Ireland I agree with you.

[PRC-UTE]

The blame lies with the Spanish gov&#39;t. what are the Basque Republicans options? Die quietly or attempt vainly to bring attention to their cause. . .

The Spanish working class needs to unite to help them. The ETA are not indiscriminate terrorists. For example they don&#39;t target the Catalan region anymore, since it is autonomous from Spain.