Same Sex couples on Child Programs [Archive]

Kez

18th June 2002, 17:34

i say no, coz "are kids matured anough and stable enough to realise what homosexuality is?

firstly how do you define homosexuality? is it a physical thing or mental? if its physical then sure i suppose you should allow programs as such, but if its mental, then wont such programs encourage homosexuality?

And "is homosexuality "normal"?" i mean, do you see it in the animal kingdom? i full on confused over the matter, and my post probably very homophobic, although i assure you i am not, as one of my best friends is gay.

can some1 answer my questions?

Comrade Kamo

Hattori Hanzo

18th June 2002, 17:38

i say yes as long as there's some influence form the opposite sex

Rob

18th June 2002, 18:00

I think they should be allowed to do it. Homosexuality can't be taught, it's something that either exists or it doesn't, and if a show's gonna teach tolerance, it will be better for society. And Comrade Kamo, define normal. And we don't see homosexuality in the animal kingdom because animals aren't endowed with emotion, they only have reproductive instinct.

RedCeltic

18th June 2002, 18:18

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 11:34 am on June 18, 2002
i say no, coz "are kids matured anough and stable enough to realise what homosexuality is?

firstly how do you define homosexuality? is it a physical thing or mental? if its physical then sure i suppose you should allow programs as such, but if its mental, then wont such programs encourage homosexuality?

And "is homosexuality "normal"?" i mean, do you see it in the animal kingdom? i full on confused over the matter, and my post probably very homophobic, although i assure you i am not, as one of my best friends is gay.

can some1 answer my questions?

Comrade Kamo

Comrade Kamo:

Homosexuality, Bisexuality, transgener, etc do exist in nature.

The following scientific evidence is provided by this website http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/SCIENCE-OF...F-SEXUALITY.htm (http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/SCIENCE-OF-SEXUALITY.htm)

-Many animals can change ther sex at will. Many animals are bisexual. Many male animals become pregnant. Many animals have multiple sex organs. When such animals mate, both parties are impregnated simultaneously. (Research oysters, frogs, sea lions, cardinal fish, sea horses, river bullhead fish, mouth brooder fish, angler fish, lyre-tail coral fish, ten-spiked stickleback fish, orange sea perch, slipper limpets, roman snails, banana slugs, ravens, emperor penguins etc.)

-Many animals are homosexual. Many homosexually mate for life. (Research dolphins, monkeys, pigeons, dogs, cats, graylag geese, pink flamingoes etc.)

-There are many all female animal societies. Many of them reproduce females exclusively, by parthenogenesis. Many of them have sex for pleasure with fellow females. Many animals strictly segregate themselves by gender. (Research desert grasstail lizards, lions,whiptail lizards, water snails, rare birds, elephants, bees, ants, and spiders etc.)

-There are even homosexual plants. (Research Jack-in-the-Pulpit etc.)

ID2002

18th June 2002, 19:13

I don't see the problem with it at all. I say yes, but some moderation is needed. I agree with Hattori Hanzo.

Hattori Hanzo

18th June 2002, 19:16

i mean they need to know that it's there, and that it isn't necesarily bad, but not necesarily good

RedCeltic

18th June 2002, 19:28

So far as of 2:32 EST 31% 26737 say yes
69% 59313 say no

Hattori Hanzo

18th June 2002, 19:34

can't find it...

RedCeltic

18th June 2002, 19:46

you have to scroll down and look on the right hand side for a small gray box that says "Quick vote"

It will say
"VIDEO" on the left " EXTRA INFO " next to that.." SPECIAL REPORTS" just to the right of that and than " QUICK VOTE " on the far right side...

(Edited by RedCeltic at 1:49 pm on June 18, 2002)

Anonymous

18th June 2002, 19:49

Yes but the American TV networks have also complained that Tinky Winky was making kids become homosexual. I say 'yes' a single TV program isnt gong to determine a childs sexuallity considering the multitude of other factors in th echilds life, eg. parents, friends.

Hattori Hanzo

18th June 2002, 19:55

hopefully it would teach understanding

Zippy

18th June 2002, 20:15

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 5:34 pm on June 18, 2002
... then wont such programs encourage homosexuality?
How can you "encourage" homosexuality?

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 5:34 pm on June 18, 2002
... i mean, do you see it in the animal kingdom?
There are some cases of homosexuality in animals, yes. Rams are the most common, with 5% of those being gay.

Zippy.

RedCeltic

18th June 2002, 20:24

To clear up some misunderstanding... (because I wasn't clear on it myself)

The show is called "My family is diffrent" it will be on Nickeloden tonite and is a talk show geered to older kids. People like Rosie O'Donnal for example will be on talking about experiences as being a gay parent, as well as some kids with gay parents talking about what it is like to have two moms or whatever the case may be.

Kez

18th June 2002, 20:29

i have officially been enlightened

"5% of rams are gay"
lol, great

anyway, i reckon it can easily fuck up a kids mind to become a gay or whatever.
I mean if u NEVER saw heterosexuals kissin, then would you know u kissed women? probably not, if no1 told you that is. So by showing gay couples it encourages homosexuality, which i dont see as right, but thats my opinion. Like i sed im not a homophobe. also, those 5% of rams, are they bisexual? or just gay?

Comrade Kamo

RedCeltic

18th June 2002, 20:56

No Kamo, I don't think your a homophobe, just wrong.

Fires of History

18th June 2002, 22:19

"I mean if u NEVER saw heterosexuals kissin, then would you know u kissed women?"

Then you simply wouldn't exist in a heterosexual society. And then heterosexuality would be the minority, and in that reality you would think heterosexuality was wrong.

Can I ask you why you don't see homosexuality "as right"?

Don't forget. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TV! Kids are going to see gays of all kinds in real life. So why not on TV? Parents can only bubble-wrap their kids so much.

Also, you asked, "are kids matured anough and stable enough to realise what homosexuality is?"

But are they mature enough to comprehend heterosexual relationships? If you think heterosexual comprehension is pre-cognitive, then you have to allow that homosexual comprehension can exist as well. Which basically means that homosexuality is not a choice (if you think children "comprehend" sexuality pre-cognitively in one way, then why not the other?). But then if you say that heterosexual comprehension is not pre-cognitive, then why does anything they watch on the TV matter?

And I have to ask, how can you claim to see something as not right, yet claim also not to be a homophobe?

sypher

19th June 2002, 00:11

I believe that this should happen on children shows. I see nothing wrong with showing homosexuality to children. what is the worst that can happen? the kids will have an open mind about these things.

Will they have interracial couples on the show too

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 00:17

What nobody mentions is the point of the broadcast!

There are many childeren in America who.. like it or not... are being raised by same sex couples or inividuals. This show is geered to showing these kids that they are not freeks of nature and that there are other kids who go through this.

Think of the children mate!

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 03:30

I say no. Having a program that encourages homosexual parents raising children and subsequently homosexual families is in my opinion not right. I mean children should be brought up in the normal, nuclear family. Mother and a father. Having parents of the same sex can disrupt a child's learning and encourage it to be gay. I don't mind if people are gay, that is there business, however i don't think that should get in the way of disrupting the normal family and a child's maturation. Giving single sex parents through IVF the opportunity to have a baby, as well as gay couples is against nature and the teachings of God, principles and ideas that i adhere to. I also don't think there should be programs such as IVF, as it's not natural to "create" scientificially a human being. There are millions of orphans around the world that deserve the same chance as everybody else however it's not "cool" to adopt in countries such as the states where consumers can break, convulute and rape tradition, culture and beliefs for the sake of appeassing their wants.

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 03:36

Dan: Some children are being raised in homosexual homes. Do you want them to grow up thinking that they are the only ones in this enviroment?

Fuckin' dolt...

Borincano

19th June 2002, 03:43

Dan Majerle,

What do you consider "normal?" A family with both a mother and father doesn't mean it is going to be a functional family. The mother could be a drunk and the father could be molesting the children. Also, what about those single mothers and fathers out there, raising children by themselves? This is not 1950's TV, every family has it problems, and whether it's a same sex or opposite sex leaders, leading the family, doesn't make it normal. It's how you raise the child. that makes it normal.

A lot of things can disrupt a child's learning, and having homosexual parents doesn't do that. Also, a child, in my opinion, is born gay, having gay parents just opens their eyes to the reality of the world. A diverse world.

I'm not writing that everyone should go out and get gay parents. If that's your family, then that's your family, so what? Whom are you to judge? I'm not.

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 03:52

Why don't you respect my opinion RedCeltic instead of childishly abusing me. Gee you are such a big man.
I don't think that environment which you described RC should be allowed. Not that i want kids to feel alienated and stuff. Try not twisting my words.
Normal is by definition something that complies with the majority opinion. I don't think people are born gay, merely their environment and peers influence their decisions and sexual orientations. Most gay people, NOT ALL, but most are gay because of unfortuante experiences in their childhood that have impacted them and made them homosexuals.
Raising children amongst gay parents is sipmly not natural or normal. I don't mind people being gay but don't put it on children whose minds are maluable. With the rise of homosexuality because of the evils of capitalism there is also a rise in IVF treatment and the creation of babies. That is not right. Nobody can play God and decide they want to make a baby if they can't naturally.
That is what i'm saying, if you don't like it then maintain a level of respect instead of merely assaulting me. Capish?

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 03:55

Again, It's a show about TOLERANCE

Something most "adults" here need to learn too.

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 03:59

I don't want to get in a fight RC, i'll state my opinion again. I don't think there should be such shows mainly because i don't think there should be such environment that the show attempts to cater for. Meaning a show that shows tolerance and understanding to gay couples raising children should not be necessary in an environment that doesn't allow gay parents to raise children. No environment = no show. Hence my reasoning for not wanting my show.
I also find it cute how you put inverted commas on adults, that shows that you cannot be directing that to me as i'm on 17 and in my country not legally an adult and obviously directed to yourself as you cannot show tolerance to my opinion. :)

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 04:03

look, don't take my opinion personal ok, but I totaly disagree with what you are saying.

Children are raised in same sex households no matter what you say. They are, and have been, and will be in years to come. These kids need support, need to know that there are others like them.

However you would deny that to them because you think homosexuality is wrong.

Borincano

19th June 2002, 04:06

Dan Majerle,

Ok, so normal is the opinion of the majority? So I guess Communism isn't normal in the USA, because the majority of it's citizens don't consider it "right" or "normal." LOL!

If your going to make a comment about most homosexuals becoming homosexuals due to their childhood experiences, then I want to see some statistics that aren't from some right-wing fundamentalist Christian organization or political party. ok?

I have homosexuals in my family, and they've always been like that, in my opinion. Yes, some become homosexuals due to rape, but in reality, they are not homosexuals because their true feelings towards the same sex isn't authentic. It's their hate for the opposite sex that drives their "homosexuality." I know some people who have become "homosexual" due to that and know their feelings. Other don't really realize their homosexual until they have sex with the same sex and enjoy it.

I also have a friend who has grown up only with his mother, never had a male role-model, and grew-up in the largest homosexual community in Chicago. Guess what he turned out to be? Heterosexual, and a heterosexual sexaholic at that! lol! Being born gay and the true feelings you have for the same sex is what makes a person a homosexual in the truest sense. Anything else, due to my personal experiences and all the statistics and research I've seen and heard, is just false.

I don't believe in a supreme God, so I don't care for 'his' teachings, if 'he' ever existed in my opinion. Take care. :)

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 04:08

I respect your opinion RC. However i don't think such environments where gay couples are allowed to raise children should be allowed. Let's say for arguments sake i came to power in a country. Now i wouldn't say the program can't run in my country, instead i would change the laws so that gay people can't raise children, therefore such shows would not be catering to anybody as gay parents raising children would not exist.
Right now these children do feel alienated from other children. The problem isn't that we need t.v. shows to help them out and help people understand more about homosexuality, we need to change the present system. Let there be homosexuals but don't let them go against nature, normality and religion by allowing them to raise children. If they could do that God would grant them that right naturally. Same with single parents with no partners. They also shouldn't be allowed to raise children that were created for a kind donation by a sperm bank donaner.

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 04:12

Borincano,

Normal, by definition is "usual or ordinary". That supporst my definition which is the majority.

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 04:13

Borincano,

Normal, by definition is "usual or ordinary". That supporst my definition which is the majority.
In reference to your opinion on God, that is your opinion. I can't argue with that.

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 04:13

What's the diffrence between a single unwed mother raising her child in Flatbush, Brooklyn and Rosie O'Donnal raising her child? (besides the economic factor)

Both single, unmarried... one adopted... what's the diffrence? Is Rosies child going to grow up to be a criminal or something?

Borincano

19th June 2002, 04:13

Dan Majerle,

Then I hope you don't come to power in any country.

Your progam would lead to a serge of children in orphanages due to them not being able to be raised by a single parent, no matter the circumstances and not allowing them to have a comfortable home where they will be loved and cared for, even if it's a homosexual home.

This is not a perfect and moral world, and such laws will always be met with great opposition. Get with reality! It doesn't matter that your 17, I'm 16. lol!

I Will Deny You

19th June 2002, 04:16

[hr]Quote: from Dan Majerle on 10:30 pm on June 18, 2002
I mean children should be brought up in the normal, nuclear family. Mother and a father.[hr]Most people who say such things believe in "traditional" family structure, i.e. a man who works and a woman who stays home and raises the kids. So Dan, you might want to check out the other opinions of people who influenced your position on this.[hr]Quote: from Dan Majerle on 10:30 pm on June 18, 2002
Having parents of the same sex can disrupt a child's learning and encourage it to be gay.[hr]You can't "encourage" a child to be gay. That's like saying black people shouldn't be allowed to adopt white children because they might "encourage" the white child to be black. A person is born gay, bisexual or straight and that can't be changed. Which is worse: A heterosexual child growing up with homosexual parents who teach him/her to be tolerant, or a homosexual child growing up with heterosexual parents who, statistically, are more than likely to be homophobic, repressive and intolerant?[hr]Quote: from Dan Majerle on 10:30 pm on June 18, 2002
I don't mind if people are gay, that is there business, however i don't think that should get in the way of disrupting the normal family and a child's maturation.[hr]How is a child less likely to mature in a homosexual household? I assume you're talking about sexual maturation because this thread is about sexuality, so I've got news for you: Kids "mature" sexually on their own. Nature does it for them, and the sexual practices of their guardians have nothing to do with it. Menstruation/Wet dreams are inevitable.

Lindsay

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 04:17

Dan, than what if a bisexual person like myself or FOH or many others say have a child with a person who does not wish to raise it, and thereafter becomes involved in a same sex relationship? Would your opressive form of government take the child away? Would a child be better off being raised by say a crack head than a homosexual who can provide a stable enviroment?

Dan Majerle

19th June 2002, 04:18

Borincano,

It is obvious that you don't listen. I"ll clear this up once and for all. This is my beliefs towards homosexuals and single parents and child raising. Listen and learn.

1. I don't think homosexuality should be made illegal, i have no problem with homsexuals.
2. Homosexuals should not be allowed to raise children.
3. IVF should not be allowed.
4. Single, hetrasexual parents should be allowed to adopt children or raise their own from past relationships or marriages, et cetera.

Understand now?

Borincano

19th June 2002, 04:19

Dan Majerle,

What's your political ideology? Many think that Communism and Socialism isn't normal or ordinary by human nature. You believe the same for homosexuality. So what's your answer to those who think your political ideology isn't normal and ordinary by the standards of human nature?

What makes things normal, usual or ordinary? Homosexuality can be seen in all of Gods (In your opinion.) creations. If he didn't intend this to happen, then why did he create them that way?

I don't think animals can have a homosexual environment, as you claim creates homosexuality. I've never seen a gay pub in Sub-Sahara Africa for animals...lol!

Borincano

19th June 2002, 04:21

Dan Majerle,

I do listen, and I'm very open minded. I know what you wrote and responded. I think your not comprehending what I'm writing. It is you who don't listen and is close-minded.

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 04:30

"4. Single, hetrasexual parents should be allowed to adopt children or raise their own from past relationships or marriages, et cetera. "

And, if the single parent who is 'heterosexual' is deemed an unfit parent? Should the child be than deemed ward of the state rather than be raised by the bisexual parent?

RedCeltic

19th June 2002, 04:33

Again, Children ARE being raised this way if you like it or not. Shows like this provide them with support, and reasurance that there are others in the same situation.

Zippy

19th June 2002, 08:13

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 8:29 pm on June 18, 2002
I mean if u NEVER saw heterosexuals kissin, then would you know u kissed women? probably not, if no1 told you that is.
You had to be told? Good God.

Quote: from Dan Majerle on 3:30 am on June 19, 2002
Having parents of the same sex can disrupt a child's learning and encourage it to be gay.
Yet again i ask this, because nobody as answered yet - how do you encourage a child to be gay? Do you force him to listen to Kylie from a young age? No; it isn't possible to control someones sexuality, because like many aspects of a persons personality, its formed from years of lifes experiences.
My Dad collects stamps, but it doesn't mean i'm going to grow up to be such a boring bastard.

Zippy.

Kez

19th June 2002, 12:37

long time since there has been such an interesting topic, but lets keep things non-personal.

Firstly, when people say gays are "not normal" or "not right" is comes from the belief that, IF everyone was gay, then how would humankind reproduce and contnue to exist?

Secondly, IWDY wtf, u sed summit about black people being white coz their adopted parents could be white, wtf, thats a poor analogy as u cant actually change race, and the fact is that we dont know if being gay is physical (ie from birth) or mental (growing gay), so you cant say if TV would influence being gay or are u just born gay.

If it is metal, then for sure this program would encourage homosexuality as it is deemed more acceptable, and im not saying its not acceptable coz "god" sed some bullshit, but is it deemed to be normal not for society but for mankind.

And the program that would be broadcast, sure its good for the adopted of gays, but they wouldnt be the only ones watching this, if it were then there would be no problem.

Good deep debate, i reckon it will take another 20-30 years for society to come to conclusions to how to deal with sexualities.

Comrade Kamo

Angie

19th June 2002, 13:50

I've got no problem with gay couples being on Children's shows. Logically, if they were doing anything they shouldn't be doing in front of the kids, say jumping each other like rabbits on heat, then it wouldn't be rated as a Children's show would it - the same goes for straight couples.

All innocent. :)

Zippy

19th June 2002, 13:50

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 12:37 pm on June 19, 2002
when people say gays are "not normal" or "not right" is comes from the belief that, IF everyone was gay, then how would humankind reproduce and contnue to exist?
But everyone will never be gay, ever. To even argue something on that basis is pointless. Yet a small percentage of people will be gay, in whatever culture or society they are brought up in. It can't be controlled, and it can't be taught or encouraged, all people can do with homosexuality is to condemn it, and then oppress it.

the fact is that we dont know if being gay is physical (ie from birth) or mental (growing gay)
That is very true indeed, but a 30 minute tv show on Nickelodeon is not going to contribute much to the mental aspects of a young childs sexuality.

Zippy.

guerrillaradio

19th June 2002, 14:51

I think that the programme should be allowed to run. Predujice comes from lack of understanding. When immigrants first came to the UK, everyon hated them. Now, 50/60 years down the line, only a minority dislike them and they are, on the whole, uneducated and football fans. Why do you think so many kids (as in pre-teens) are homophobic?? Maybe cos the whole concept of homosexuality is hidden from them until they're old enough to find out for themselves. If children are brought up in the knowledge that they have a choice of sexuality, then the chances are they will understand and therefore not discriminate against homosexuals. I suggest that you read into homosexuality Dan, as your views are from the same skool of thought that wants to ban it.

Kez

19th June 2002, 15:57

Quote: from Zippy on 1:50 pm on June 19, 2002

But everyone will never be gay, ever. To even argue something on that basis is pointless. Zippy.

That is assuming people are born gay,i believe one grows gay as in becomes gay later on in life . Often one must exaggerate the case to see the whole picture.
Lets say tv just showed gay couples, it would then be deemed "normal" to be a homosexual and "abnormal" to be heterosexual.
Therefore by showing even this small show wouldnt it be encouraging homosexuality, which i disagree with, one should tolerate homosexuality not encourage it

Comrade Kamo

Fabi

19th June 2002, 20:09

well, guess what... if society encouraged homosexuality and discouraged people from being heterosexual... well... what would you do? i wouldnt give a shit and secretly still be with a woman...

even if that little 30minute program had such a strong effect on the children, and even if the kids were more likely to 'become' homosexuals, what would be the problem????????????????

also, it is a fucking matter of freedom of speech. (xcuse me...) ... not ALLOW the program to be broadcast? that is so much bullshit. it doesnt even do anything. it just says 'hey there ARE happy kids with same-sex parents.....' any attempt to keep people from 'spreading' that message would be a big FAT LIE............

but i suppose i must be corrupted... this was not personal and no anger directed at individuals... no animals were harmed in the writing of this post.

maxfish17

19th June 2002, 22:57

I believe that homosexuality is something people are born with, not something they choose, and so it's impossible to "encourage homosexuality".

But even if it was possible - and even if this 30 minute show did "encourage it" - why would that be bad?

The biggest reasons I've heard from homophobes are:
- Gays spread aids
- If everyone was gay we'd be extinct
- God doesn't like gays
- It's not right. It's not the way it's "supposed to be".

Fuck god. Anyone who believes in god is a gullible asshole. Why would you believe that a white man (not all religions believe this, but some do) created the universe??? Isn't that the extreme height of arrogance and ignorance?? So much suffering has been caused by religion and the blind following of the "words of god"!

As people have said before, not everyone is gay and everyone being gay will never happen. Gays will always be the minority, regardless of how much we embrace tolerance and oppose right-wing zealots. There is no danger of the human race going extinct because of gays.

- Max

SU37

19th June 2002, 23:56

I believe in God,I guess Im a gullibale asshole.

20th June 2002, 03:12

This entire thread is making me sick. The homophobic language is totally out of control. I can not believe that LIBERAL people believe that homosexuality is bad and that homosexual parents should not raise children.

To be so closed minded must be aggravating. Fuck your "beliefs." These "beliefs" are perpretrated by the same assholes that say that the holocaust never happened and the slaves were happy!!!

I am disgusted.

j

I Will Deny You

20th June 2002, 03:49

[hr]Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 7:37 am on June 19, 2002
Firstly, when people say gays are "not normal" or "not right" is comes from the belief that, IF everyone was gay, then how would humankind reproduce and contnue to exist?[hr]But if everyone were straight there would be no good male hairstylists. Obviously, we need both gay and straight people on this planet.[hr]Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 7:37 am on June 19, 2002
Secondly, IWDY wtf, u sed summit about black people being white coz their adopted parents could be white, wtf, thats a poor analogy as u cant actually change race, and the fact is that we dont know if being gay is physical (ie from birth) or mental (growing gay), so you cant say if TV would influence being gay or are u just born gay.[hr]You could de-program a black kid so (s)he can't dance. ;) (Just kidding.)

I was assuming that homosexuality is what you would call physical. Science is on my side, too.

Lindsay

El Oso Cubano

20th June 2002, 04:23

I am torn on this issue.

As a non-mainstream homosexual who finds the bourgeois excesses and sexual degradation of much of the "gay" male mainstream offensive, my intial instinct is to resist any promotion of those values.

In looking at the content of the program in question though, there was a very responsible presentation of an issue that many children are dealing with in their lives today. There are many homo parents of both genders living with their natural children from previous marriages, children born to same-sex couples and adopted/foster children.

These children deserve to have their fears and concerns voiced and heard. I think the only thing that was being promoted was tolerance, and tolerance is just that. You may not like someone or their beliefs, but you must respect them.

My problem from some personal experiences is that there are those homo parents who live a dual life where they are parental and responsible at home yet embrace the party "gay" lifestyle simultaneously and pursue activity outside of the home that while it is outside of the home can indirectly cause problems - ie, drunk driving arrests, drug-related promiscuity that can lead to STDs. I am only speaking from my contact with several homo-males that are also fathers.

I also find that it has always bothered me that too many "gay men" have fathered children recklessly in an attempt to supress their sexuality or hide it by engaging in the "ultimate act" of proving their masculinity - inseminating a female. I can't tell you how many times I have been sitting in a park in a "gay" area and I see men cruising WITH baby carriers in plain view attached to the back seat of their car. This is not only very cynically hypocritical, but many of these guys on the "DL" are the same ones that will often engage in risky behavior regardless of the possible consequences it may bring to their unknowing spouses.

Additonally, I resent that these children must all of a sudden deal with the fact that "Daddy doesn't love mommy, he loves buddy" once these father's no longer can or want to live dual lives. At that point the kids have to deal with a shattered sense of reality and continuity when they are forced to confront their parent's lived lie.

Should these fathers/mothers be deprived of their children? Not unless they are truly bad parents. Should they be held up as role models of open thinking and progressiveness? Not necessarily so.

It is a complex issue that cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of all aspects of a pluralistic society. All I know is that children deserve a voice and an ear. This special dealt with parents that for understandable data given, are very responsible decent people.

That is a reality that needs to be shown, but I also think the other issues must be considered as well.

Kez

20th June 2002, 10:33

*applauds great post*

But this sort of thing, it must always be in the interest of the children, no so gay couples can be "trendy" or whatever.

Just like if a heterosexual couple were drunks, they shouldnt hold kids, same applies if gay couples are drunk parents.

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREEEEEEEEEEN :)

COMRADE kamo

Zippy

20th June 2002, 20:03

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 3:57 pm on June 19, 2002
Lets say tv just showed gay couples, it would then be deemed "normal" to be a homosexual and "abnormal" to be heterosexual.
So if gay people were on tele then that would make hetrosexuality abnormal? I don't think i need to point out the flaws in that.

Zippy.

oki

20th June 2002, 20:20

I'm from the Netherlands and gay parent adoption is legal here.children are not stupit,if they understand their parents having sex,they can understand 2 men allso.I don't see anything wrong with it.

Kez

20th June 2002, 21:19

this threads fucked considering we dont know if being gay is physical or mental.

I Will Deny You

20th June 2002, 23:02

The program, from what I understand, was not about the gay parents. It was about the CHILDREN of gay parents and the problems that they deal with because of shit that they get from their peers. I do not believe that children of fat parents should be made fun of, whether the children themselves are fat or not, and I also do not believe that airing a television show on children of fat people would encourage kids to be fat. Those who have taken the position that this show might pressure kids into becoming gay ought to keep in mind that almost all bullies (who usually do the peer pressuring) are homophobic. This show couldn't make a kid think it's a grand idea to be gay (especially after hearing stories of kids being teased for living with gay people!) but it might make a kid think it's alright to be gay.

Lindsay

Valkyrie

20th June 2002, 23:38

It's a fucked up world when we need approval from a governemnt as to which consenting adult we can have sex with or marry and if those people so choose to be parents or not, adoptive or otherwise. It's a fucked up world when certain television programs such as that are polled by society as to whether they should be broadcasted or not when violence reigns on television.
IT's a fucked up world.

(Edited by Paris at 11:39 pm on June 20, 2002)

maxfish17

21st June 2002, 02:53

Sorry if some people found my earlier post offensive. I went a bit too far complaining about god etc.

- Max

Drifter

21st June 2002, 10:55

homosexuality is physical your born like that, apparently you can actually see the part of the brain in a homosexual is slightly different from a heterosexual. you can't be turned into a homosexual.

Nickademus

21st June 2002, 13:07

well i'm glad someone finally mentioned that homosexuality is not something you choose. if you 'choose' to be hetero when you are actually homosexual you are just repressing your own self.

there was a case kina similar to this in canada recently except that it dealt with books. a kindergarton (i believe) teacher was using some books to teach his kids. each of these books had the presence of homosexual (be they gay or lesbian) couples. the school in surrey, BC banned the use of the books and ultimately took the teacher to court.

it was decided that the teacher could use most of the books. they didn't show the couples as being sexually active (something really beyond the comprehension of 4 and 5 year olds). but they realized the books were just showing the kids that the children with homosexual couples were a family as well, they were just slightly diferent.

its the same as this show. how are you going to make kids of gay couples and kids of hetero couples realize that they are not horrible, that they are a part of society and have every right to be, if they aren't exposed to this kind of programming. (and the children are my primary concern in this issue).

i think the program is an excellent idea and i think other status should take a similar initiative.

and this won't turn kids gay. if they are gay, they are gay and perhaps watching a show like this will teach them that it is ok to be gay. if you are hetero you're not going to become gay after watching one of these shows. if you're curious, you'll experiment, but most people do that anyway (at least ifind a large part of my generation does/has).

everyone neeeds to chill out. who cares if kids become gay after watching a show. let them be who they are. thats the beauty of life....being who you are and doing what you want. we have to accept that we can't control people. its that simple.

Dhul Fiqar

21st June 2002, 16:24

I'm not gonna make any judgment calls here, but you be the judge.

I was raised by a lesbian mother, her lover didn't come into the picture properly untill I was about 12 or so, but she's still a lesbian and she's my mother and she stilled raised me. And I'm more than fine with it.

That being said, I'm a totally fucked in the head and probably best kept in some kind of padded room, far away from people and sharp implements. Still... I like it :)

--- G. Raven

Nickademus

21st June 2002, 19:32

Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:24 pm on June 21, 2002
I'm not gonna make any judgment calls here, but you be the judge.

I was raised by a lesbian mother, her lover didn't come into the picture properly untill I was about 12 or so, but she's still a lesbian and she's my mother and she stilled raised me. And I'm more than fine with it.

That being said, I'm a totally fucked in the head and probably best kept in some kind of padded room, far away from people and sharp implements. Still... I like it :)

--- G. Raven

i'm sure everyone is dying to ask you whether you became a lesbian or homosexual ( i have no clue whether you are male or female) because of your experience?

btw i'm totally kidding.

but would you have appreciated some form of bonding or discussion or even something to help you gain a sense of inclusion into society?

guerrillaradio

21st June 2002, 21:19

Welcome back Nickademus.

Dhul - does your being fucked in the head have anything to do with your lesbian parenting?? Don't make assumptions about a connection...

Nickademus

21st June 2002, 23:08

why thank you guerilloradio....its nice to be back

and hell i was raised by straight parents and i'm completely fucked as well

guerrillaradio

22nd June 2002, 00:26

Quote: from Nickademus on 11:08 pm on June 21, 2002
and hell i was raised by straight parents and i'm completely fucked as well

Same...

Dhul Fiqar

22nd June 2002, 17:44

I'm male, and I'm not gay, but thanks for asking ;)

As for the questions, well, I'm not sure I'd appreciate a social worker or something asking me about anything like that since I'm very anti-authority.

I did appreciate discussion with my mom and dad about it, and they were really cool in explaining things rationally and generally handled the issue extremely well, so well that it was never really an issue.

I'm not saying everyone would handle it that well, it's just one persons experience.

And I'm not sure why I'm so fucked in the head, but my favorite theory is some kind of freak interplay between genetic traits, life experiences and mind altering substances ;)

I'm not saying there's a connection between my mother's gayness and my fuckedupness, I'm just saying I'm no poster-boy for the gay adoption movement, if you know what I mean... I support them and all that, but my other views, experiences and actions don't exactly paint a picture of stability, so I decline to be a case study :biggrin:

--- G. Raven

(Edited by Dhul Fiqar at 1:48 am on June 23, 2002)