I want to be an artist.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

I love water color and blowing glass. Unfortunately I'm really really bad at it. In fact so poor that if I had to make a living at it I would starve to death. I know what I make is crap, but I have lots of fun doing it.

In a communist system can I paint and blow all the glass I want? If you noticed from other threads I also have a weakness for fast cars. I really really love fast cars. I think it would be great if I don't have to work for at my profession, then paint and blow glass as my profession instead; can I also have a really fast car too? It would be great if I could produce glass and water colors in exchange for food, shelter, and fast cars. Is that possible under communism?

[New Tolerance]

Sure you can, I'm kind of an artist myself.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 1 2004, 02:42 AM
Sure you can, I'm kind of an artist myself.
Oh boy. I want communism right way and everywhere. I can produce really undersirable art and still enjoy fast cars.

[LSD]

Clearly you misunderstand (perhaps intentionally).

You can, of course, make as much "glass art" as you want, but not as your sole occupation. You will have to perform some work which is regarded by the society as nescessary. But, because everyone will be employed in essential work the amount of time you will be required to spend at this job will be far less than that which an average worker would presently have to spend.

So, yes, you can "produce really undersirable art" but that can't be all you do.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2004, 04:40 AM
Clearly you misunderstand (perhaps intentionally).

You can, of course, make as much "glass art" as you want, but not as your sole occupation. You will have to perform some work which is regarded by the society as nescessary. But, because everyone will be employed in essential work the amount of time you will be required to spend at this job will be far less than that which an average worker would presently have to spend.

So, yes, you can "produce really undersirable art" but that can't be all you do.
Far less time?

Has someone measured it? Do a study? Compare time on job for a communist (or controlled economy) vs free market? I know that workers can do same job for far less time in one factory vs another, by some kind of effeciency index. Has someone actually done this comparison?

Besides how do you know my art is 'undesirable'. With money I can tell by how much someone is willing to pay for it. In a society with no money you can probably tell than my art is really really bad by how much I have around that no one will take and accept. Plus who is going to stop me from making more bad art? After all I can eat, get shelter, and drive my fast car. I got no reason to stop making my bad art.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort+Dec 1 2004, 04:55 AM--> (ahhh_money_is_comfort @ Dec 1 2004, 04:55 AM)
Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2004, 04:40 AM
Clearly you misunderstand (perhaps intentionally).

You can, of course, make as much "glass art" as you want, but not as your sole occupation. You will have to perform some work which is regarded by the society as nescessary. But, because everyone will be employed in essential work the amount of time you will be required to spend at this job will be far less than that which an average worker would presently have to spend.

So, yes, you can "produce really undersirable art" but that can't be all you do.
Far less time?

Has someone measured it? Do a study? Compare time on job for a communist (or controlled economy) vs free market? I know that workers can do same job for far less time in one factory vs another, by some kind of effeciency index. Has someone actually done this comparison?

[/b]
I am sure there are studies. Why don't you go look for them?
Communism has nothing to do with a controlled economy, you are very confused.
Many people do this comparison. I do this comparison whenever I see the inefficiency of capital based production. Its very simple really: there is no need for advertisement, overbearing management, unproductive commercial structures or dangerous and destructive processes. When the working class does not have to look to the ruling class to use the means of production, you cut out the "middle man."

Think about it... happy people work hard at jobs they know are productive and appreciated; angry people take their fucking time and spit in your soup.


...With money I can tell by how much someone is willing to pay for it. In a society with no money you can probably tell than my art is really really bad by how much I have around that no one will take and accept. Plus who is going to stop me from making more bad art? After all I can eat, get shelter, and drive my fast car. I got no reason to stop making my bad art.

No, with money, you can tell what people are stupid enough, or coerced enough into buying. Make as much bad art as you like and are willing to waste time gathering resources for. If you really think it is worth making, other people probably will too. In time, you may even get good at it and in a communist society you are free to associate with artisan societies which would likely help you out. No one would tell you to give up and try to exploit your needs, they would have their own lives to do as they please.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Dec 1 2004, 05:26 AM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Dec 1 2004, 05:26 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 04:55 AM

Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2004, 04:40 AM
Clearly you misunderstand (perhaps intentionally).

You can, of course, make as much "glass art" as you want, but not as your sole occupation. You will have to perform some work which is regarded by the society as nescessary. But, because everyone will be employed in essential work the amount of time you will be required to spend at this job will be far less than that which an average worker would presently have to spend.

So, yes, you can "produce really undersirable art" but that can't be all you do.
Far less time?

Has someone measured it? Do a study? Compare time on job for a communist (or controlled economy) vs free market? I know that workers can do same job for far less time in one factory vs another, by some kind of effeciency index. Has someone actually done this comparison?


I am sure there are studies. Why don't you go look for them?
Communism has nothing to do with a controlled economy, you are very confused.
Many people do this comparison. I do this comparison whenever I see the inefficiency of capital based production. Its very simple really: there is no need for advertisement, overbearing management, unproductive commercial structures or dangerous and destructive processes. When the working class does not have to look to the ruling class to use the means of production, you cut out the "middle man."

Think about it... happy people work hard at jobs they know are productive and appreciated; angry people take their fucking time and spit in your soup.


...With money I can tell by how much someone is willing to pay for it. In a society with no money you can probably tell than my art is really really bad by how much I have around that no one will take and accept. Plus who is going to stop me from making more bad art? After all I can eat, get shelter, and drive my fast car. I got no reason to stop making my bad art.

No, with money, you can tell what people are stupid enough, or coerced enough into buying. Make as much bad art as you like and are willing to waste time gathering resources for. If you really think it is worth making, other people probably will too. In time, you may even get good at it and in a communist society you are free to associate with artisan societies which would likely help you out. No one would tell you to give up and try to exploit your needs, they would have their own lives to do as they please. [/b]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sure there are studies. Why don't you go look for them?

Think about it... happy people work hard at jobs they know are productive and appreciated; angry people take their fucking time and spit in your soup.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are sure? You have seen the data? The baseline comparisons of worker and factory efficiency?

I'm sorry but I am asking a very direct and scientifically measurealbe question.

Your 'think about it' argument is dark age reasoning. It is an 'it is so obvious' arguement 'that it must be true'. Well science does not work that way. I'm talking hard fact and measured quantity. The 'think about it, it is so obvious' reasoning is a flat earth argument.

So I ask you on your honor? When you say 'I'm sure'. Has someone done the baseline comparison? and compared the two systems? One thing is for sure. Is that your "I'm sure' response is just an off the cuff shrug or it is a white lie. I know salesmen, that is a typical salesman remark trying to pass BS.

Go look for them? I have. I tell you they don't exist. On my honor. They don't exist and I have done my best to look. I tell you one thing that I know for sure and I'm not guessing. Is that the communist revolutions have produced pigs of an economy. Painfully slow and unproductive pigs of an economy. The Chinas, Soviets, Polands, Cubas, North Koreas, you name it. All started with communist ideas but got pigs for an economy. Yes yes yes, they are not communist, but that is what the communist experiment got them. Plus I'm not really sure I'm correct, but help me if I'm wrong, but the communist revolutions seem to be batting 100% for producing pig poor/slow/inefficient economies? I'm really guessing about that stat, but I can not name one revolution that has given workers more 'stuff' in quantity and quality to enjoy.

[cormacobear]

fast Cars Mmmm no.

However if you look at the working ours of the people in heavily unionized countries, you'll see that when all are employed and labour is equatably divided up you would have a great deal more free time to dedicate to your artistic endeavors.

Good luck, and as long as you enjoy creating your art it has merit.

. The United States had a taxation rate of 28.8% of G.D.P. and Canada 36.6%. Denmark had 69.9% of their workers covered by collective bargaining, the United States at a dismal 18%, Canada 36%. Of Danish men working more than 45 hours a week there were only 15%, the United States 26%, and Canada 22%.

From 'What's Left', Published in Canada. If you put a little effort in you'll find extensive evidence for lower working hours in left wing countries than right.

Logic also concludes if you put the unemployed to work people will be able to work that much less to produce the same amount.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 1 2004, 05:26 AM

No, with money, you can tell what people are stupid enough, or coerced enough into buying. Make as much bad art as you like and are willing to waste time gathering resources for. If you really think it is worth making, other people probably will too. In time, you may even get good at it and in a communist society you are free to associate with artisan societies which would likely help you out. No one would tell you to give up and try to exploit your needs, they would have their own lives to do as they please.
Hey I don't have to worry about resources. I got food, shelter, and a fast car from the system. I'm just going to make more bad art. I love water color and glass as a media. Yes I'm getting better. Trust me, it is hideous, but I have a good time creating. I got no reason to stop creating. I don't need to gather resources. I'm just going to take the supplies, glass, fuel, furnace, and materials. Who is going to say no?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 05:50 AM
fast Cars Mmmm no.

However if you look at the working ours of the people in heavily unionized countries, you'll see that when all are employed and labour is equatably divided up you would have a great deal more free time to dedicate to your artistic endeavors.

Good luck, and as long as you enjoy creating your art it has merit.
No fast cars? Why?

[cormacobear]

Fast cars are dangerous, require a great deal more labour than more efficient means of transportation. You'll be fre to study the history of transportation but owning and operating these vehicles will likely be banned do to the dangerous nature of them and their burden on society. eg. energy recources, health care, etc.

I sympathize but with ensured survival for all comes some small sacrifices for a few.

I love muscle cars I inherited a 74 Dodge dart with a 318 and nitrous. it was amazing fun and I drag raced for several years, but I decided an education was more important.

Look up I edited my earlier post

[LSD]

Has someone measured it? Do a study? Compare time on job for a communist (or controlled economy) vs free market? I know that workers can do same job for far less time in one factory vs another, by some kind of effeciency index. Has someone actually done this comparison?

For the last time, communism is not a centralized command economy, that is called State-capitalism.

I'm afraid no long-lasting communist society has existed from which we have reliable data for the type of comparison your talking about.


Hey I don't have to worry about resources. I got food, shelter, and a fast car from the system. I'm just going to make more bad art. I love water color and glass as a media. Yes I'm getting better. Trust me, it is hideous, but I have a good time creating. I got no reason to stop creating. I don't need to gather resources. I'm just going to take the supplies, glass, fuel, furnace, and materials. Who is going to say no?

I've already answered that:

"Clearly you misunderstand (perhaps intentionally).

You can, of course, make as much "glass art" as you want, but not as your sole occupation. You will have to perform some work which is regarded by the society as nescessary. But, because everyone will be employed in essential work the amount of time you will be required to spend at this job will be far less than that which an average worker would presently have to spend.

So, yes, you can "produce really undersirable art" but that can't be all you do."


I also have a weakness for fast cars

I can produce really undersirable art and still enjoy fast cars.

No fast cars? Why?

:lol:

Christ man, grow up!

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 02:39 AM
I love water color and blowing glass. Unfortunately I'm really really bad at it. In fact so poor that if I had to make a living at it I would starve to death. I know what I make is crap, but I have lots of fun doing it.

In a communist system can I paint and blow all the glass I want? If you noticed from other threads I also have a weakness for fast cars. I really really love fast cars. I think it would be great if I don't have to work for at my profession, then paint and blow glass as my profession instead; can I also have a really fast car too? It would be great if I could produce glass and water colors in exchange for food, shelter, and fast cars. Is that possible under communism?
I was going toi leave this open, until I real your follow up posts that is.



I fyou want to blow glass all day long then perhaps you should just drop some quidsies on a cute little glass blowing operation.

Perhaps you may even make a few clams; we all know how comfortable that would make you.

Now piss the fuck off.