Since yesterday I am officially a criminal - Because communi

[Maaja]

Yes... that may sound unbelievable but that's the situation in Estonia. I don't know what they will do now with people who are communists. Well, I have to admit that I've never met any other commies but me here, yes we do have some old stalinists too but I can't consider them communist.

Will they put me to the jale or just warn me if I ever say anything about being a commie? And what about if I want to write again a leftist article to my school's newspaper? Probabaly they just won't publish it.;)

Do you know are in some other country same sick laws?

[ArgueEverything]

in australia the conservatives tried to ban the communist party in the 60s. there was a ballot on the issue, but it was rejected.

[Blasphemy]

is it just me, or is the world looking more and more like 1984 with every passing day?

[evile bstard]

blasphemy...i was just thinking that....scary

[Angie]

Getting into the mindset that jail might be our temporary home from time to time is helpful to any activist, especially those of us who have very real risks of ending up in there. Will help strengthen our resolve.

Maaja, I wish you the best of luck.

[Kez]

this is y people turn to violent insurrection and throw out pacifism, if u shoot big brother, then whos to say, maybe we will be in control

think about it, if just us lot on the site, assasinated 5 govt ****s, then the world is a better place (not that im saying that we should)

comrade kamo (smiling for the FBI :))

[Conghaileach]

I remember reading somewhere that a man in Belgium was once arrested for placing an anti-NATO poster on a wall beside a police station.


Hope lies in the proles...

[Maaja]

I have been thinking what kind of punishment they have for commies? We don't have death penality, so they will not kill me;) But I have to find out what will come. Anyway, I will not give up. Actually since today I haven't done anything huge to show my views but people in general know that I like communism, I've written articles and I read all the time that kind of literature etc. I just wanted to start with some kind of organisation, some of my friends told me that now I don't have any hope but... I will not give up!

[Valkyrie]

Check this out! This is what is happening to 15-year old Katie Sierra for exercising her RIGHT to free speech and non-violent dissent.

http://www.infoshop.org/interviews/katie_sierra.html

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...1/12/06/4091134 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=01/12/06/4091134)


http://flag.blackened.net/cgi-bin/search.c...e+Sierra&cmd=Go (http://flag.blackened.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi?ul=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infoshop.org%2F&wf=2113343&ps=50&o=0&m=all&q=Katie+Sierra&cmd=Go)

[Xvall]

Quote: from Maaja on 6:57 am on June 17, 2002
Yes... that may sound unbelievable but that's the situation in Estonia. I don't know what they will do now with people who are communists. Well, I have to admit that I've never met any other commies but me here, yes we do have some old stalinists too but I can't consider them communist.

Will they put me to the jale or just warn me if I ever say anything about being a commie? And what about if I want to write again a leftist article to my school's newspaper? Probabaly they just won't publish it.;)

Do you know are in some other country same sick laws?


I'm a communist, you're not alone. There are many communists on this boards. And here in America, there used to be something called the 'Hollywood Blacklist'. Basically, any movie directors who were in any way associated with the communist party (This includes just going to a rally, not nececarrily joining) either had to tell the names of other people involved in the communist party, or go to jail. Communists were heavilly persecuted at that time.

[Xvall]

You're a criminal? Well, if you don't want to go to jail/be fined, pretend you're something else. Like politicians do! Know how they call tax hikes 'temporary budget fixtures' and stuff like that, well call yourself a 'revolutionary conservative' or something! I wouldn't though, but that's just me, and because I'm tired of hiding.

[Rob]

Bask in your thoughtcrime

[Lefty]

that isnt right, Maaja. Best of luck, and do as Rob says...

they cannot control your thoughts, as hard as they may try.

[Supermodel]

OK, first of all, Estonia must have a constitution.

See if you can get a hold of it and then see if this neww law (is it a law or just police practice) is constitutional.

Secondly complain to the United Nations and the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and the US State Department - Estonia Desk, that Estonia has this law and it suppresses free speech adn the right to self determination.

If you have someone very active in your country, they may be willing to try this case in court and take the risk of going to jail just to put Estonia in a bad spot internationally.

[Maaja]

Thanks about all the advices, I definitely will try to do something in the future. Maybe I just wait more 3 months until I am in the legal age (18 here) and then I'll try to contact international institutions.

By the way, by saying that I haven't met other commies, I didn't mean Internet. I just haven't met them in live.

[RedCeltic]

Here is the Constitution of Estonia as of 1992 (in English)

http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/en00000_.html

The Government of Estonia has the right to restrict or suspend your constitutional rights

Article 11 [Restrictions]
Rights and liberties may be restricted only in accordance with the Constitution. Restrictions may be implemented only insofar as they are necessary in a democratic society, and their imposition may not distort the nature of rights and liberties.

However, you may have be able to prove the law unconstitutional under article 41

Article 41 [Freedom of Belief]

(1) Everyone shall have the right to hold his or her opinions and persuasions. No one may be coerced to change them.
(2) Persuasions cannot be pleaded as an excuse for a legal offence.
(3) No one may be legally charged because of his or her persuasions.

This clearly is directed to religious belief. However what is the diffrence between believing in a religion and believing in communism? If you can prove a connection, you may have a case than.

Also by your constitution, it seems that your freedom of speach is made moot when connected with the allowing restrictions of it for the purpous of state security.

Article 45 [Freedom of Speech]

(1) Everyone shall have the right to freely circulate ideas, opinions, persuasions, and other information by word, print, picture and other means. This right may be restricted by law for the purpose of protecting public order or morals, or the rights and liberties, health, honor and reputation of others. The law may likewise restrict this right for state and local government officials, for the purpose of protecting state or business secrets or confidential communication, which due to their service the officials have access to, as well as of protecting the family life and privacy of other persons, and in the interests of justice.
(2) There shall be no censorship.

The same with your right to assemble. You have this right, as long as your not seen as a threat to national security.

Article 47 [Right to Assemble]
Everyone shall have the right, without prior permission, to peacefully assemble and conduct meetings. This right may be restricted in cases and in accordance with procedures determined by law for the purpose of national security, public order or morals, traffic safety and the safety of the participants in such meetings or to prevent the spread of infectious diseases.

section two of article 48 prevents any chance of an armed revolution in Estonia

Article 48 [Right to Associate]

(1) Everyone shall have the right to form non-profit associations and leagues. Only Estonian citizens may be members of
political parties.
(2) The establishment of associations and leagues possessing weapons or organized in a military fashion or conducting military exercises requires a prior permit, the issuing of which shall be in accordance with conditions and procedures determined by law.
(3) Associations, leagues or political parties whose aims or activities are directed towards the violent change of the Estonian constitutional system or otherwise violate a criminal law shall be prohibited.
(4) The termination or suspension of the activities of an association, a league or a political party, and its penalization, may only be invoked by a court, in cases where a law has been violated.

[Hattori Hanzo]

the communist party was illegal in japan during the cold war

[Natalenko]

There will always be people trying to illegalise communism, like J. Edgar Hoover in USA and Sir Robert Menzies in Australia, but there are always too many libertarians to crush them.

You must remember that they can't persecute you for having a belief in communism, what they would try you for is having a belief in armed revolution, or violent acts against the state. In a court of law, they would need to have hard evidence to prove that you are planning this, and if they got this evidence, then they could punish you or even exile you for being a threat to national security.
I can't imagine though Maaja that you have any incriminating evidence like this in your house. :)

[RedCeltic]

Great Points Nata!

Yes you need to make sure you are not connected with anything that could connect you with a "Threat to National Security" which I seriously doubt you are considering your the only commie you know.

You may also want to make your intent for peace more clearl This may be done simply by publishing an artilce or two that sugests that your goal for the world would be a peaceful goal. (without neccicerily sugesting Communism)

[Angie]

My family are somewhat aware of my beliefs. My father and I were talking about the Gestapo tactics the FBI are coming out with lately, just the other day. We were talking about what would happen if Australia's ASIS started doing the same thing. We spoke about different groups being persecuted in history, and about how one of the new Bills being passed through Parliament would make it legal to arrest anyone on the mere suspicion of their guilt - including politicians, journalists, and human rights workers.

I said to him, "If they find people who are not supporters of their Capitalist system guilty, and therefore Terrorists (or in line with Terrorists), then I am a Terrorist. Similarly, if they find human rights workers who oppose what the Government is doing, to be Terrorists, then I am a Terrorist."

He's aware that I am in the risk group. He's what I would refer to as a Centrist, and is liberal enough to accept and understand what I said, and to advise me of how to walk correctly when and if things get rough. I appreciate the support - one of the reasons why I like being here, too. We all learn from each other, so when and if things get rough, we're not completely unprepared.

[Felicia]

If you ever have to go to jail, Canada is the best place to go. We put mass murderers in minimun security facilities (they are like apartments!) and the only thing separating them from the 'free' world is a 3 foot high chain link fence! Our prisons are a laugh-and-a-half. Ya gotta love rehabilitation, yup yup yup. :)
If my country was doing that to me, I'd leave. Fortunately a lot of Canadians haven't got a problem with communism, lucky me.
I wish you the best of luck with this situation.

felicia

[Edelweiss]

In Germany the KPD was banned in 1956. Later they were re-founded as DKP (http://www.dkp.de/) with a new party program (without officially favoring a violent revolution).

[deimos]

estonia is a eu candidate.is such a law allowed within eu borders?

[Goldfinger]

The Norwegian Workers Communist Party was almost fobidden in the 60's-70's, and at that time, many communists were under surveillance by the CIA. I know a journalist who was followed.

[deimos]

the cia in norway?is norway strategically important?