From another board

[Orange Juche]

Someone (a libertarian) on another board I post on posted this:



the situation in Cuba is not as bad, because of private companies.

There are about 4,500 forgein companies from about 100 countries that work with Cuba.

It's really horrible of what the Cuban government is doing to the workers.

Forgein companies have to play $500 a month for each worker. You want to know the average wage each month? $14 dollars. The work force for Cuba is about 4.5 million. That's $2.2 billion the government recieves, just on that.

In reality, the government is takes away $486 dollars per worker. And for what?
No modern medicines for patients, no modern technology.

And their healthcare gets even better:

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/000175.html

No healthcare for oil, sounds similar to an Iraq slogan.

Cuba has no freedom of speech, look at all the journalists that are imprisoned in Cuba:

http://www.cubanet.org/periodistas/prision.htm (In Spanish)

But don't get me wrong here, I support lifting the embargo on Cuba 100%.

I feel that we should finally get rid of the last country that communist have to claim is a reason why communism works. I feel lifting the embargo will actually help dissolve communism in Cuba rather than make Cuba stronger.




How does one, being a Communist, respond to this?

[Orange Juche]

??

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Lifting the embargo will not necessarily open Cuba to private investors, but more importantly to trade.

What's the big deal about Doctors? The alleged lack of medical supplies and medicines is not due to a lack of pharmacists or doctors, but due to a lack of resources, of which Cuba will have more if it gets its hands on some oil.

And what's wrong with the government receiving $486 pre month per Cuba working for foreign companies? Does he have evidence of what the government does with the money?

[redstar2000]

Cuba has no freedom of speech, look at all the journalists that are imprisoned in Cuba.

In fact, no place has "freedom of speech" -- that's mythology.

But the Cuban example is a particularly bad one -- those so-called "journalists" were not employed by anyone except the U.S. Interests Section in Havana.

They never wrote a line for anyone but the CIA. Their real job was to go around and find out how goods manufactured in the U.S. find their way to Cuba...so 3rd party suppliers that sell American goods to Cuba can be prosecuted under American law.


It's really horrible of what the Cuban government is doing to the workers.

Foreign companies have to play $500 a month for each worker. You want to know the average wage each month? $14 dollars. The work force for Cuba is about 4.5 million. That's $2.2 billion the government receives, just on that.

That's completely fucked up. Cubans who work for foreign companies (a minority of the total work force) are the most prosperous workers in Cuba and they get a lot more than $14 a month.

In fact, the problem is one of Cuba becoming a two-tier society: Cuban workers who work for foreign companies get paid in hard currency and can (and do) shop in "hard currency stores" where most modern amenities of developed countries are readily available...but Cubans who are not so employed get paid only in Cuban pesos and must put up with occasionally severe shortages of commonplace items like aspirin or toilet paper.

You can see the problem this generates: Cubans who work for foreign companies will be indifferent to the return of imperialism...for them it's already happened and they are doing quite well, thank you.

And some (perhaps many) Cubans who don't work for foreign companies will welcome the return of imperialism in the hopes that they too will get a shot at the "big money". Most of them won't, of course, but "hope springs eternal".

Thus far, the Cuban government has made no serious effort (as far as I know) to get hard currency or what it will buy into the hands of every Cuban worker.

If hard currency wages were effectively taxed and then redistributed to Cubans who don't work for foreign companies, then the future of Cuban "socialism" would be considerably brighter than it is now.

On the other hand, maybe they are doing that...and it's still insufficient.

But, in my opinion, things do not look good.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Orange Juche]

you guys should join the forums there. www.buddypic.com. Id love to see the libertarians there get ripped to shreds, and Im one of the very few communists, and the only one who regularly posts.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 06:34 AM
you guys should join the forums there. www.buddypic.com. Id love to see the libertarians there get ripped to shreds, and Im one of the very few communists, and the only one who regularly posts.
I don't think many individuals will want to post there...after all, the majority of people on the so-called "debate forum" are religious zealots, homophobes, and politically ignorant kids that recite "freedom" and "history" from their junior and high school textbooks. I've stopped going there for that reason -- how can I "debate" when the people don't even understand the very basics of the issue?

Granted, there are a handful of very intelligent individuals there...I have invited all of them to Che-Lives as we need a few extra capitalists.

Seriously, the "head poster" there is Spartacus...a fascist by his own admittance, a Christian fundamentalist, a follower of Hitler, and a disgusting nationalist that likes physically and psychologically "weak" females.

I ask some of those folks a simple question about their Christian religion, and they refuse to answer me and call me "mean."

Wow.

[Orange Juche]

Haha what did you ask that made them call you "mean?"

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 04:59 AM
And what's wrong with the government receiving $486 pre month per Cuba working for foreign companies?
Tell you what -- you send me 99% of your next pay check, and we'll see if you can't answer that question for yourself.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

That's the most fucking absurd thing I've ever heard in my entire fuckin life.

Ever heard of taxation?
You are not a representative government that would provide all of your country with necessities, education, food, healthcare, protection, freedom, and equality.

Please give a moments thought when you make your next post, which I hope never happens.

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 03:25 AM
That's the most fucking absurd thing I've ever heard in my entire fuckin life.

Ever heard of taxation?
You are not a representative government that would provide all of your country with necessities, education, food, healthcare, protection, freedom, and equality.

Please give a moments thought when you make your next post, which I hope never happens.
Okay, fair enough. You send me 99% of your next paycheck, and I'll send you back as much as I think you need.

And you don't have to elect me, I revolutionized your ass. You don't get a choice. Send the money, or I send Stazi to your house to "arrest" you. After all, that's how it's done, "Comrade."

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

If I lived in Cuba and you were the governemnt, I'd be glad to send you 99% of my paycheck.

Please reas this before you utter another fuckin lie about Cuba's political system.
American vs. Cuban Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html)

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 04:42 PM
If I lived in Cuba and you were the governemnt, I'd be glad to send you 99% of my paycheck.
A fool and his money are soon parted.

When are you packing your bags ?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I assume you didn't read the essay

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 04:42 PM
If I lived in Cuba and you were the governemnt, I'd be glad to send you 99% of my paycheck.

Please reas this before you utter another fuckin lie about Cuba's political system.
American vs. Cuban Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html)
Told'ja, boychik, this is a revolution. I am now your government. Put that check in the mail.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Have you read the essay?
It's short and easy.
Even you could read it, I'm sure.

[NovelGentry]

If I lived in Cuba and you were the governemnt, I'd be glad to send you 99% of my paycheck.

If I live in Cuba and he was the government, I'd revolt... this man is obviously not revolutionary, while many Cuban's are, given that if he were the government we'd have a very strong uprising against his bullshit policy.

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 11:54 PM

If I lived in Cuba and you were the governemnt, I'd be glad to send you 99% of my paycheck.

If I live in Cuba and he was the government, I'd revolt... this man is obviously not revolutionary, while many Cuban's are, given that if he were the government we'd have a very strong uprising against his bullshit policy.
Oh? And what part of my policy isn't Communist? I take from you according to your ability to provide, and I give back what I think you need. That's pure Communism, son! Disagree with me again and I'll have you shot.

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 11:40 PM
Have you read the essay?
It's short and easy.
Even you could read it, I'm sure.
Why don't you boil off all the obfuscatory bullshit and tell me what the point of all that pretentious horseshit is?

[NovelGentry]

Oh? And what part of my policy isn't Communist? I take from you according to your ability to provide, and I give back what I think you need. That's pure Communism, son! Disagree with me again and I'll have you shot.

No it's not pure communism, so don't be stupid and pretend it is. Threaten me again and I'll have you banned.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

So have you read it?
Good, yes?
Excellently outlines the political system of Cuba and refutes once and for all the lies about the allegedly violently centralized militant dictatorship.

[Malleus Malificarum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 12:22 AM

Oh? And what part of my policy isn't Communist? I take from you according to your ability to provide, and I give back what I think you need. That's pure Communism, son! Disagree with me again and I'll have you shot.

No it's not pure communism, so don't be stupid and pretend it is. Threaten me again and I'll have you banned.
How is it not pure Communism? Is "from each according to his ability; to each according to his need" suddenly not a tenet of Communism, now that you're the one on the business end of it?

And threatening to have me banned... tsk, tsk. Imagine! You (as a moderator, one of "the few") trying to rule over me (as a poster, one of "the many")! Unconscionable! :rolleyes:

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 01:22 AM

Oh? And what part of my policy isn't Communist? I take from you according to your ability to provide, and I give back what I think you need. That's pure Communism, son! Disagree with me again and I'll have you shot.

No it's not pure communism, so don't be stupid and pretend it is. Threaten me again and I'll have you banned.
And how precisley will you achieve that? As I am aware only administrators can ban people.

What I think you mean is you will try and have him banned, and may well succeed too, Malleus Malificarum be warned, people have been banned for less.