The revolution according to the Marxism teories

[Väkke Sharpener]

My dear camrades,

I actually reckon that this world needs a change. We cannot keep on living in a world where the 80% of the population dies from starvation. We can't keep on living in a world where there are two continents which lives off the work and of the goods of the rest ones. We can't live in such a selfish world, a world where there are people asking for money in the undergrounds of our cities, and we pass away. The revolution, according to the Marx terms must be made, and we mustn't care about the fact that whether there be much death or not. the revolution must be made, the problems of the world must be solved out.
Who wants to keep on living in such a unfair world? That's the principal question we must wonder about. I don't, and do you?

In Getafe on 28th November 2004

[VukBZ2005]

I Absolutely Agree!! We totally need a Real Communist Revolution!

[ComradeRed]

Well, it doesn't just happen like that. There are two main schools of communist revolutions: the Leninist school, and the Marxist school. The former wants a "vanguard" to overthrow capitalism. It sounds like what you want, but it is nothing more than another form of capitalism. The latter dictates that there will be a material cause which triggers a collapse of capitalism. I really don't believe you want to go with the former, it being bourgeois and all...

[A_Devious_Mind]

yes,there must be a revolution.....but guess what.......no1 has the fucking balls to fight for what they belive in so.......well just have to continue living in this fuckhole and die and be forgotten.......or it could be another story.........oh well the point is.....we need to grow some balls :)

[Tondbert]

Hey everyone,

I think it's fair to say that most people on this message board want a revolution, so your little speech isn't going to get us automatically to take to the streets. We have to look at this logically, we are in a minority at the moment and we will probably remain in the minority for some time. Yeah, we probably could have a revolution tommorrow if we wanted, but would it be right? If we are in the minority then it clearly isn't fair for us to enforce our views and beliefs on the majority.
I believe in the Marxist school of thought that ComradeRed spoke of :marx: . A chain of events will bring about the downfall of Capitalism. I personally hope that the 'War on Terror' takes our states so right-wing with security and racism that there will be a revolution. People dont want their lives dictated and if the government leans to far right then people will not be happy. Thats the only thing I can see at the moment that could possibly lead to revolution. Never actually worded that hope before. Hmm..I call it, 'The Terror Factor' lol ;)

[Djehuti]

The revolution according to Marx is simply when the changes in quality goes over to a change in quantity, in this case when capitalism goes over to communism. How this change is made does not mather, it is still a revolution. But sure, it wont be a dance on roses all the time. Violence must be used. But the the revolution are not up to use communists to do, the liberation of the working class must be the work of the class itself. We are just a part of the vanguard, the most councious part of the proletarians, the tip of the spear. The vanguard however is no leaders according to Marx, but ofcource every proletarian wont reach the same level of class counciousness at the exact same time, hence it is naturally that some goes before and take intiatives.

Well, there is no revolutionary climat in the society of today's, though I do believe that the class counciousness of the workers have started to grow once again. We must be patient however. It might be hard to be patient when we see all the suffering in the world, but still it is necessary. To rush into anything that we do not have the strenght to handle is just foolish. One step at a time.

[Essential Insignificance]

yes,there must be a revolution.....but guess what.......no1 has the fucking balls to fight for what they belive in so.......well just have to continue living in this fuckhole and die and be forgotten.......or it could be another story.........oh well the point is.....we need to grow some balls

What would members of Che-lives, including yourself do? Take to the streets with arms, and shot "whatever moves"? Form a fortified militant, and proceed to execute all members of congress, parliament, etc. Embed different terrorist networks, and launch sporadic attacks?

Well, it's a great possibility that none of us here won't be around to witness, be involved or even read about a proletarian revolution in a highly developed capitalist nation(s), in our life time... and I accept this.

I don't think people, like yourself, understand the unparalleled magnitude of proletarian revolution -- and as such, it's not a "militant" rebellion launched by young zealots against the ruling class -- something which most proletarians would look on in "disgust" with.

The harbinger, the human source, the real revolutionary class, to bring about a classless society -- is the proletarian.

It has nothing to do with being "scared" or "frightened"... it's about using your intelligence; understanding how things work, how things happen, how we can "speed up" the development of class-consciousness.

Communism is not some "abstract" ideal, whose premises must be adjusted to fit in with reality. The real, practical, revolutionary premises, the conditions, of the communist movement result from the now existing premises... there is no abstraction, of theoretical mastery, to comply reality with understanding.

Just give it time!

[NovelGentry]

As I've said before anti-capitalist sentiment does not automatically equate into pro-communist sentiment. Revolution is one thing socialist/communist/anarchist revolution is another. Will we yet again waste revolutionary consciousness of an entire generation only to see it crumble? If we are going to push revolution in 1st world imperialist nations let's ensure the masses are truly revolutionary. The last thing we need is a failed Leninist paradigm that will collapse into revisionism.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Essential Insignificance
...and as such, it's not a "militant" rebellion launched by young zealots against the ruling class...

I quite agree.

And that makes it tough on some of the young people who come here "full of fire" and ready to "storm Heaven right now".

I certainly don't want to discourage you, Väkke, or others who feel similar. But you folks simply must learn that proletarian revolution represents the most massive and significant change in human society in the last 10,000 years.

If you decide that you really want to be part of this enormous process in a serious way, then you must expect to spend your whole life at it...without necessarily living long enough to see all that much immediate progress.

For all we really know, we might well be in the same position now as the radical 18th century critics of feudalism...that is, it could be another century or more before our ideas become the ideas of the masses and class society is indeed overthrown for good.

Some people find that a discouraging or even pessimistic message -- they want to live in a classless society "right now!".

I know the feeling.

Unfortunately, the world does not care about our feelings. The struggle against capitalism has been going on for a long time...and there is no "light at the end of the tunnel". At least I don't see one and I've looked hard.

What does exist, however, are people willing to resist the despotism of capital. Their numbers may be small, their understanding limited, their location often unexpected.

We, as revolutionaries, need to find them, support them, join them.

And then we'll see.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)

A site about communist ideas

[leftist resistance]

A revolution is no piece of cake.You'll need armaments and support.You'll also face a regular army that is far more superior in arms and numbers.A lifetime devotion may be necessary

I suggest that you spread the idea around slowly,for now.I don't intend to kill your determination for a better place,but a revolution is something that comes with hardships.

[NovelGentry]

You'll also face a regular army that is far more superior in arms and numbers.A lifetime devotion may be necessary

While I agree you'll face a regular army, I don't think the size will be nearly what one would assume. Given that there's nothing that will permit future generations who would normally become members of the military from becoming revolutionary. I say this now, and I think others would agree, that given a certain amount of time capitalist nations will have to prove more and more fascist in order to sustain the system for any moderately indefinite period of time. Not that this makes the army small, but with any luck revolutionary ideas will be widespread enough that the sides may be a bit more even than one would think.

[Commie Rat]

What we ned is to rally allies all the lefties all others from message boards and communitys like this we need dissidents in the army to courupt the regulars especially in america we have enough of our comrades in the army we can overrun it
and we need to teamup with our muslim friends in my dream of a comunist society religion [altough i am not regious my self] will be allowed accepted and tolerated

[NovelGentry]

I'm not sure what makes muslims automatically our friends. I have no problem with muslims in fact 4 years ago you would have found me reading up on the Koran and seriously thinking about converting to Islam. Islamic fundamentalism, however, is no different and as very real of a danger as any form of fundamentalism based on abstract theories which for the most part can be equated to known fiction at the moment. This isn't to say all of them are fundamentalists either, but there is that element. Not to mention there is also muslim capitalists, muslim fascists, etc.

We don't need comrades in the army either, all we need is to keep working to bring the proletariat towards revolutionary thinking, since a huge majority of military men are working class people to begin with they will eventually see the light.

[Väkke Sharpener]

My Dear camrades,

I am very happy with your answers, I am even happy with those ones who critic my teory.
I don't know if our brothers the muslims would be good allies for our aim: A real communist society. The muslims state that the women, for example, have the half part of right of men, why? Just because they, according to the Bible, come from Adam, so they according to them, are the half part of a man.
I am actually against this teory, and I am against all that teory which supports the sexual discrimination. Women are much more intelligent than men. They may not be as strong phisically as we, men, are; however, they much more needed for revolution than Men.
Women are the most wonderful thing in the world. They are the ones who give births to us. So, if we are here, if we are talking about a revolution, it's because someday a woman brings us to this world.
We will need women; and they will have to have the same rights that we have. And, too, what are we looking for with the revolution? A just structure.
Could we talk about a just world, if we are supporting a world where women have no rights?

Your Faithfully.

Väkke Sharpener

[Essential Insignificance]

Women are much more intelligent than men.

Now that's a gargantuan assertion!

History doesn't tell us that... far from really.

For reasons obvious to the reader.

But it still remains too been seen.


Could we talk about a just world, if we are supporting a world where women have no rights?

Quite simply, no.

Ask yourself could a world be truly "just", if woman were still "second- class" citizens?

[Zingu]

When people in a country like the U$A or first world nations are on the verge of revolution; the conditions have to be really bad, so far, we're nowhere near it, maybe people in Africa or Asia might be closer to revolutionary movement, but no-one (expect us) is going to get of their ass and bomb the government instutions when their busy living a comfortable life with fat paychecks.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

We totally need a Real Communist Revolution!

No, you need political power.