WHO ARE WE TO VOTE FOR? - In America

[anti machine]

In a system such as America, our votes really don't count. THe politicians lie to us, telling us that voting is a priveledge, a freedom, while they know that votes are virtually worthless since they will always be in power. WIth that aside, who should we be voting for in the next presidential election? THe Communist party? THe Green party? Give me your feedback.

[Xvall]

You can vote for a communist party? Well, I'm not old enough to vote. Can you actually vote for the communist party? The CIA would never let that happen.. Only in minor elections maybe.. I should run for mayor..

[Felicia]

Yeah, I know that the U$ has a revolutionary communist party and I'm pretty sure that you can vote for that. But due to the popularity of the repubs and dems, I don't think they stand much of a chance against them. :(

[j]

You can vote for whoever you want to. I'm sure Hitler gets a few votes every year. The US has had a communist party for a long time. There have been a few elected socialists, but I don't have the facts right on hand.

I guess the Green Party is alright, but I'm not sure of every part of their platform. The Dems and Repubs are basically the same. Whatever you do, don't vote a straight ticket ever. Vote your mind. The president is one thing but do vote for your city coucilors, mayors, and senate folk. There your vote does matter and can effect real local change from time to time.

j

[Supermodel]

There is no difference between the parties in the US and the politicians are all corrupt or they would not agree to abide by that system.

Demand electoral reform where no more than $10,000 may be spent on a political campaign. Politicians should have all their earnings beyond their salaries put into a blind trust and should absolve themselves from taking employment after their terms (the pension for congressmen could kick in immediately, they would not starve).

[VolareMIRCantare]

I think you should vote for the Green Party, someone needs to clean up the U.S.

[man in the red suit]

Personally, I would wouldn't want to vote for the communist party unless I had to.
I would most definitely vote for the socialist party.

1.) I don't think that Communism would work in America,
communism would worsen the living standards.

2.) the communist party is far behind the socialist party.
The socialist party has a better chance of winning, not that they have any chance in the first place.

3.) If the socialist party gets 5% of the peoples votes ( I believe it is 5%, I'm not sure) they can actually campaign rather than working in secrecy.

this is just my opinion, I would personally prefer socialism to communism. I don't think communism works for countries that are already corrupt with avarice. Even though there is no hope for a socialist to be elected as PRESIDENT, I still would vote for them as a "statement" that I am fed up with the same "Republican vs. Democrat" scenario. I am sick of how the two parties kick the others down. It appears that the parties don't have equal opportunities to get their message across to the people. I am sick of Democrats and I if hating republicans could make one a racist, I would be the next Hitler. I will vote for the socialist party. If not the socialists, then the communists, but never the green party. The green party has a lot of excellent ideas but they do seem to be just a bunch of pot smoking hippies.
I don't mean to upset the green party fans, but I just don't care for them overall. At least the green party would be a good change over the republicans or democrats. so I guess that the green party would be my third choice. lol

(Edited by man in the red suit at 11:19 pm on June 12, 2002)

[Xvall]

MITRS, Do you believe that if a Socialist state is established first, and things are cleaned up, that it can eventually from into a communistic society?

[Rob]

I'm pretty sure that the Communist Party of the United States (CPUSA) doesn't run candidates anymore. They endorse the Democrats. The Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP), a different organization may still run candidates, but those homophobic bastards won't get my vote (the called homosexuality "bourgeois decadence up until the 2000 campaign, at which time their opinion made a magic reversal). The Socialist Party still runs, and they definitely have lotsa support. Unfortunately, the Socialist Labor Party (a group I'd support) hasn't run a candidate since 1976, but I definitely agree most with them. I think that the Green Party was certainly successful in showing some of the ills of the 2 party system, and Nader may have done a good job cleaning up the U$ political system, but I still don't think the Green Party best represents my beliefs. I miss the next presendential election by 2 or three weeks. Damn late november birthday.

[man in the red suit]

drake,
no I don't believe so. I think that there is enough burgeoisie to rebel against it. You have made an excellent proposel but I just don't think it is possible. On top of that, I just don't even think that the socialist party stands a chance in the elections. I suppose that it may be possible for socialism to evolve into communism but if that were to happen it would probably be a very slow and gradual change.

rob,

YES!!! the socialist labour party was the one I was thinking of. They are my personal favourite. I was thinking of a party who hasn't run a candidate since 76.
so it was the socialist labour party! I see now. Yes I take it back. The socialist labour party would be first choice, then the socialist party, then the revolutionary communist party, then the communist paty, and then the green party. I also agree wiht you about the green party. They just don't fit my ideology of thinking.

[RGacky3]

I say all the communist, and socialist parties combine their votes. They are not goign to do that so vote for the socialist party, they have the largest chance, don't vote green, they are not socialist, we need to support the socialists.

[bleed3r]

"If voting changed anything it would be illegal"... I'd like to see a "none of the above" option.

However, out of the current parties I would go with the greens.

(Edited by bleed3r at 6:26 am on June 13, 2002)

[peaccenicked]

every five years then a dose of lies and corruption and bipartisan propaganda vote green, communist. At least you are telling the rest of the world, that there is some opposition.

[Angie]

I know I'm going to sound like a stick-in-the-mud, but sometimes you have to vote for who you don't want in, just to make necessary changes wherever possible.

If at any stage you finding yourself voting in a small, local/state election, then sure - go right ahead and vote for the Greens or the Communists or whoever you want to vote for.

But if it's a bigger election that you're ever facing, then forget about the lower parties momentarily. The issue right now is President Bush - when the next presidential election comes along, vote Democrats REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM. They're not a good party, merely the lesser of two evils, but the Republicans have to go, and voting Democrats is the only way you're going to help that to happen. Priority numero uno, I'm sorry to say.

In the next Prime Ministerial election here in Australia I'll be voting Labour just to attempt to boot out Howard's Liberals from office. I'm traditionally an Australian Greens voter, but I feel enough contempt towards Howard that I'm willing to put my traditions aside, to get him out of office.

[I Will Deny You]

I live in a city that's very far to the left, so I never have to worry about the whole "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" thing because I can't imagine DC going Republican. So I can pretty much vote for whoever I want. I usually vote Green, but I've voted for pretty much every leftist party at least once.

Lindsay

[red senator]

Angie is correct. The next presidential election will be very tough for anyone not a republican, unles bush is caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.
Democrats couldnt win the last elcection even before all this follow-bush-to-the-grave bullshit patriotism swept america after 9/11. (when the fact of the matter is that if nader had been elected he would have made airport security changes that he has been talking about for years before 9/11 happened)

Anyway, communists, socialists, and greens alike should just suck it up and vote for Gore because another four years of bush simply isnt worth it.

[marxistdisciple]

Maybe the parties should start putting in celebrity candidates to win votes lol. Bill gates supports the communist party of America, and Tom Cruise votes green. People seem to be susceptible to celebrity stuff nowadays. Anyone know any communist pop-celebs? hehe Britney Spears could stand for the socialist labour party, winning her career through perspiration and integrity etc. :) she also beats Bush on the IQ thing too.

[j]

Bush, Gore--what the hell is the difference? Take a look at what each stands for and you will not see many disagreements. (What the fuck is an iron clad lockbox any damn way?) I guess Gore is the lesser of the two evils but he is still pretty damn evil. What the hell would that phony dumb ass have done on 9/11? Pretty much the same thing.

Democrats and Republicans are the same. Give me 10 issues they disagree on and tell me how that will help our cause. Then maybe I'll change my attitude.

VOTE LOCAL!!!! That is where most of the damn change happens. Tell me, do you think 1/2 or your community could tell me who your state senator is that supposedly represents you?

j

[Angie]

Quote from j:

Bush, Gore--what the hell is the difference? Take a look at what each stands for and you will not see many disagreements ... Democrats and Republicans are the sameI agree, they are pretty much the same, and that's a very real problem, though the Democrats have a long track record of creating better international relations than the Republicans do, and right now you need that. It's a very big issue, what with the Reps trying to wage war with every man and his dog.

Voting Democrats will make things only minutely better, but it's a hell of a lot better than voting Greens, Communists, etc., and making a vote that won't count in the end towards the Presidency decision. The only way either of those two are going to get enough power to make a dent in the Presidency is if there's a revolution - and since a revolution isn't likely to happen for a while, it's time to get both serious and logical in the meantime.

Short-term sacrifices, for long-term gain.

[bleed3r]

This is the attitude that destroys any hope of widescale solidarity. "You make no difference so just conform and everything will be alright." Fuck that. Votes mean very little and I'm sure even if we got enough numbers to make a difference the CIA or somebody would intervene and we would be none the wiser. It's a way to break down solidarity, make people think they're alone. But no, there are a lot more of us than you think, and if you people carry on this attitude of "yeah morals are great but i'll go with the majority anyway", because you think it makes a bigger impact... Ask yourself... How exactly are we supposed to make a difference when you're openly supporting another party? It's all about numbers, and you're complaining that there arent enough so your solution is to make them smaller. That's a similar principle to oxymorons like "war on terror" or "fucking for virginity".

[evil chris]

oh my.There is some flapping going on here.Now, i don't live in America, so i don't understand the intricacies of the US poltical scene but i do know this:
THE ONLY DIFFRENCE BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS IS THE ANIMAL
Both parties are essentaically fascist.Both parties represent the intrests of the _elite_ and no one else.Both parties are guilty of war crimes when in power.And both parties try and convince you otherwise every couple of years so you'll vailidate they're dictatorship.
The other parties are very simlar.Regardless of their names and what they tell you they will do, if they are standing for election, they are anti-democratic.
Democracy is when _you_ not Rev Jesse Jackson, not Patrica Hewett, not Ralph Nader, _You_ decide the best course of action on issues that effect your life.If you mark down on paper whom you want to rule you in the Houses, you are differing the responiblity to live your life.

Voteing is Apathy In Action.

[Angie]

Jez-us...

Okay. Deep breath.

People aren't seeing the issue here. First of all, consider this topic: Voting for the Communist Party in a Presidential Election. Where do you think it's going to get you? Do you believe your numbers are great enough to make even a DENT on the outcome of the Election? No. The President will be either Republican, or he will be Democrat. That's the choice - that's how the American Political System is structured. There is only two choices in the Presidential Election.

Even if three-quarters of the nation voted for the Communist Party, it still wouldn't win - why? Because it doesn't have enough seats in Congress. The party would need to win several consecutive elections before it was even vaguelly in the running - there's so much groundwork to do, a 'lesser-party' can't just win the Presidency on one freak election result!

What they have now in America is a War Criminal for a President. Basically, a Sociopath spiralling out of control. The civil liberties are gone. The basic freedoms are gone. U.S citizens are being placed in jail for nothing more than suspicion - that's right, the U.S Government has admitted that Jose Padilla (http://www.disinfo.com/pages/news/id2275/pg1/) is nothing more than a patsy, and Ashcroft is now a scapegoat. Do you think they're going to let Padilla free now? Hardly.

This is the reality of the United States of America under the current Republican Administration. It probably won't be much different under the Democats, granted, but there's one thing that the Democrats are a little better at than the Republicans - International Relations.

Right now we have a case of said Sociopath, who wants to wage war with every man and his dog that dares disagree with his far-fetched, violent views for both the United States, and the world itself. A look at the history of Capital Punishment in Texas, pre-dating the Presidential Campaign, shows that this lunatic has a history of disregard for human life. Texas has the highest percentage of deaths via Capital Punishment than any other U.S state - by FAR.

Have you ever noticed that when he speaks of everyday issues relating to the welfare of his nation, he fucks up and his English sounds worse than a Third World citizen learning it via Sign Language. Then, when he speaks of the War Effort, he sounds almost perfect? That's because it's where his passion lies. This man lives for War. He's too chicken-shit to fight in it, hence his AWOL record during Vietnam, but he's perfectly happy sitting back in the XO position, giving out orders to everyone else then watching the fireworks. That's not a leader to honour, it's one to scorn. He's sending out American youth to die so that he can feel superior on the world stage. He's like that old saying about a man buying a huge home or a big car - he's compensating for his inadequacies, and I'm not just referring to his genitalia.

What is needed right now is better International Relations. The world is becoming more and more anti-American, because the United States is a vehicle with a lunatic at the wheel, it's bringing violence in one form or another to far too many nations, and it hasn't changed it's foreign policy - the root of all it's international evils - one iota. In fact, it's possibly worsened it.

For America to have any chance at NOT being attacked again, the Republicans must be out forced of Office. We've seen that they're having difficulty reaching their publicised objectives. I say publicised because we all know that their objectives were focused around Oil - hence the new pipeline that's about to be built through the middle of Afghanistan. Fancy that.

The public opinion of the Administration is going to start waning due to Osama not being captured, Taliban Omar not being captured, Intelligence Agency negligence, Presidential negligence and outright stupidity, U.S Citizens being arrested under mere suspicions, et al. And what is the best way for an Administration to keep it's power? Fear. Terror threats (already being used). Possibly even a planned attack.

Is this what you want?

Do you really want such an Administration as this in power?

Do you think you're going to see a change in that by voting for the Communist Party (or whatever other lesser-party you choose) ?

No. The American Political System doesn't work that way, sorry to say.

Hard truths are always difficult to swallow. Learn to open up your throat, otherwise you're going to suffocate on reality.

[samaniego]

First off when you register to vote declare yourself independent, this allows you to vote for who you want, thus your question. Voting for a third party is not a wasted vote. Take Ralph Nader for example he didn't run to win the presidential election rather to promote the Green party and gain Federal money to promote the party for future contencion. So vote for the third party, eventually we will have, enough support for them and they will be serious contenders for election. By the way there is a communist and socialist party in the US you can join and vote for.

[Angie]

And in the meantime, your nation is being gradually turned into a dictatorship by King George II. That's the whole fucking point - you cannot vote for lesser parties right now, because the major party is too damaging. Why the hell is this not sinking in?! No-one's saying it's awful to vote for a Communist or Greens party when things are more stable, but right now if you want to see a little more stability you have two choices:

Vote Democrats, or wage a war on the current Administration by creating a Revolution.

Since they are nowhere near ready to start any Revolutions in America - for a variety of different reasons INCLUDING too many people supporting Capitalism still in power - you have to work on knocking down their numbers in another way. Replacing Republicans with Democrats is the only way at this point in time. It's a small step, it's a painful step, but it's a necessary step.

For fuck's sake - you're not trying to save your nation, you're living in a dreamworld where your Communist vote means something. It doesn't mean much at all right now in such a Capitalist nation as America - it will not change the Presidency in the next 20 years or so unless the "vote" is a violent uprising. When will you understand that?!

You have to sacrifice. You have to do things that you may or may not like, to make differences in this world. It's not going to be easy. In fact, it's probably going to hurt like hell. Some of us are actually going to die because of it. If the dictatorship takes over, a hell of a lot of us are going to die. But if you want any future for your family, you're going to have to make the necessary changes to make that happen.

Reality HURTS. Wake up and realise that. You don't have much time left before the shit hits the fan so convincingly that change is impossible without mass destruction and loss of countless lives.

If you're not up for the Challenge, then at least remain silent. We need voices who are going to propel people to make the differences required. Not temper the storm with cosy little stories about how great everyone'll be with 5% of the nation's people vote Communist.

I'm a bloody Communist myself. I'd love to see America Communist. But I'm also a realist - I know it's not going to happen without sacrifices being made that we don't actually want - but rather we NEED.

Even Che knew that.

[evil chris]

ok.We all know that America is _not_ a liberal plutocracy,as with most of the Western World, but is, as most Republicans will tell you, a Republic which,as i understand it means that the "popular" vote means very little.So when Bush or any poltican talks about defending "Democracy" it is nothing but pure propaganda.
But that aint why i'm posting.
Angie- do you work for the Democrats
?Becauae i'm afraid this stuff about the Demos haveing a better international record is a falicy and a dangerous one at that.

"President J Carter ordered a 79% increase in military aid to Indonisa,includeing deliveries of 'counter0insurgency' aircraft that allowed the Indonesians to expand dramtically the air war" on the basis that it wasn't a war atall going on there but merely and "internal rebellion"1.Ah well thats okydoky
then.

Clinton allowed the genocidal sanctions in Iraq to continue which have killed something like half a million children alone.
He also blew up a medicene factory in Sudan, supplying basic medical supplies to half the country to divert attention from the trial investigateing wether he'd lied about getting blow jobs.IS that condusive to a good international reccord?
What about the democrats overseeing the rise of the Taliban.It took 5 years and 2,873 dead till the government has lifted a finger about them, and then it was a Repblican one,and not anything to do with conern for the Afghanies.
Then of course there was the geocidal actions in Bosnia and Kosovo which involved sponsoring terrorists and thugs callingthemselves a Liberation army,targeting civillian resourcses and useing nuclear weapons.
Diplomats under the last democrat regime ( and ,to be fair,every US regime) consitantly voted to, not comdem internatinal terrorism, not condem Isreali military action against Palistian civlians and has given less aid (as a percentage of GDP) than any Industrial nation.
The Democrats are as much a threat to freedom and indeed, the world itself as the Republicans are but they are supported by the Liberal Intelegnsia which carries alot of wieght and influence.
There is no choice and if you belive there is,under a guise of "realism" you've swallowed the Lie as well as principles

don't vote- take charge of your life!


(Edited by evil chris at 8:57 pm on June 16, 2002)

[antieverything]

If you ask me (which I doubt anyone will), the problems with the political parties are inevitable in a centralized, representative "democracy".

The way you get the most votes is to pander to the most people. This leads to a voting class which is entirely dependent on the government (look at most American farmers). This voting class makes it very differcult to get any sort of major changes in the political system and ensures that the powers that instituted the things that created the voting class stay in power.

So, in the meantime, vote for the green party because they are the only "alternative" party with ANY chance of winning ANYTHING but also support the socialist/communist party that you agree with most.

[maxfish17]

As many people have said, your vote in a representative democracy like the U$ means nothing. Therefore, if you want to actually Make a Difference the only way is to get involved in helping a party like the green party or socialist party. for example, organizing, or campaigning or voicing your opinions. The actual "vote" means nothing.

There are many more green/socialist/communist supporters in the U$, but because of them voting for the Democrats, people assume there are barely any real socialists.

[abstractmentality]

i agree with maxfish17 in that their are more green/socialist/communist in the US, but i think that people dont vote accordingly because they think they are alone, and will make no difference. however, if they all voted with what they actually thought, the numbers would be surprising.
however, angie does bring a great arguement that i have been thinking about a lot lately, as i have just turned 18 and can now legaly vote. im not sure where i stand on angies arguement, but its a good case.

[Hattori Hanzo]

MITRS- <sigh>
don't want to get worked over useless opinions, but <sigh>

[Angie]

Quote from evil chris:
Angie- do you work for the DemocratsNo, darling, I'm an extremist Republican in disguise, can't you tell? Boo!

Clinton did a MUCH better job at keeping the violence in Kashmir and Palestine down than Bush ever will. (Granted, this could be rewritten later, after Bush has given them all the go-ahead do completely wipe themselves off the face of the planet, such as the green light he's given Arial Sharon to continue his Ethnic Cleansing of the Palestinians. Voila - end of local population, end of story.)

Let's all remember that lovely day when Sharon was committing genocide in Palestine, while Bush was slapping Arafat's wrist: "Bad Palestine! Bad Terrorists! Stop your violence!" -- See the hypocrisy yet?

Clinton's diplomacy with China was a hell of lot better than Bush's is with China. That is exceedingly important for the obvious reasons, and cannot be denied or ignored. Curiously, with this Kashmiri issue floating around, America's backing India, and China's backing Pakistan. Wouldn't have happened under Clinton - they would have talked it through. But no - Bush can't talk without fucking up one way or another.

I'm so tired of hearing how "bad" Clinton was. He fucked up with the bombings for some obvious reasons - bad Intel the main one of them, something that has exacerbated since Bush moved into the White House, not lessened, hence the continuous Afghani genocide currently being committed. Sure he was sucked off by an intern - who gives a shit?! He was a damned fine politician compared to what Bush will ever be. It doesn't take a Democrat to be able to see that. Was it that he laughed too loud? He spoke proper English as opposed to using Bushisms? "Bad boy, Bill! Bad terrorist!" *slap*

You know what? You do what you want. It's your country, you can watch it fall around you for all I care - you've no-one to blame but yourselves. And I mean NO-ONE else, the real terrorists are from within your borders, not out of them. The rest of us can see what's going on over there with perfect vision, and have a perspective that you easily overlook. You all seem to be forgetting that - we see EVERYTHING. Vote for who you want, make your difference. In the meantime, while you change the outlook of your local postage stamp, I will be taking in the bigger picture and changing the entire world.

Thanks for your time. I'll lodge it away for posterity.

(Edited by Angie at 12:01 am on June 18, 2002)

[evil chris]

palistein - The Democrates have overseen the continuting oppression there- done nothing cept given the Israelis 3 billion a year military aid

Khasmir- the whole Western World has had lots of fun and made lots of money arming both side.It's comeing to a head now because of TWAT.But they were still armed under a Democrate (and Labour for my compatriots) government.

Saudi- a regime at least as abhornent as that of the Taliban, Republicrats let them buy $50 billion worth of wepons whoich are keeping the F-14 line alive (the Israelis have to buy simalr weaponry and counter messures to keep the arms race going)

and there was nothing wrong with him gettin head but it was murder to distract attention that was abhorrant.
The list of Neo-Liberal attrocities goes on and on and they are still convinceing you that they are better coz the Republicans have farm boy as president.But unfortunatly _the preisdent does not weild the power_.

You are right though ,that the worst terrorists can be found from sea to shining sea - so why are you asking us to vote them in power.Are they going to stop comminting terrorism? or are they, given a "mandate" going to carry on?
You Are Not An Idiot--Take Control Of Your Life

[Angie]

You are right though ,that the worst terrorists can be found from sea to shining sea - so why are you asking us to vote them in power.Because right now, they're the lesser of two evils. Putting the "less-evil" party into power is going to take some of the pressure off - not all of it, but certainly more than the other side's. The only two parties that are going into power any time soon are the two at hand here - THAT'S what I'm trying to drum into your head.

Remember what I said earlier? The only way you're going to get a Communist into power is either via about 20 years of successful voting results, or a violent revolution.

So, that leaves the Republicans, or the Democrats. Big choice there. It's a choice you have to make, so choose wisely, because your Communist vote means jack-all in the Presidency election - a Communist isn't getting in for a long time, let that sink in, because it's a harsh reality.

Stop being so fucking obtuse. Republicans or Democrats, that's the result of the next Presidential election whether you like it or not. And the one after, and the one after that. In fact, for a number of elections, regardless of how many people vote for the Communists, because that's how the political system is set up.

Closing your eyes, cupping your ears, and repeating, "Not listening! Not listening! Not listening!" isn't going to change a god damned thing about the result. It just makes you sound childish.

Republicans or Democrats. One, or the other.

I'm apparently screaming into the wind, it's such a fucking logical argument but for some stupid, inane reason, it's still not sinking into a lot of people's heads, it seems.

You're in for a bloody rough road ahead, and DON'T let me catch you ever saying you weren't warned, that you didn't see it coming. And don't ever attempt to blame anyone else for it, either. Nothing your nation does anymore is to be considered a surprise.

Nothing's innocent anymore. No-one is young anymore. Learn to face reality head-on because when it slaps you down, it hurts regardless of where you're standing, but even moreso when you're not paying full attention.

[evil chris]

but this is it, it is not a choice, it is not about the "lesser of too evils" it's the cuddlyier of two evils.
The Democrats are no diffrerent than the republicans and there is no evidence to suggest they will be.Thats what i'm trying to get into you.
(don't get me wrong - i wouldn't ask people to vote commie or whatever anyway)
Yes times are gettin harder and more dfangerous but whoever we're voteing for people are going to be murdered _in our name_.Regardless of who is in power.
What i am saying is, if you want it to get better take the power back.Do not vote.Null the State's Mandate.And in the happy future, remove them from Capitol Hill (or Westminister) perminatly coz they aint helpin'.

"well hmm, i can vote for Ed Gein or Charlie Manson.Well Charlie was kinda a hippy which is good, but he had a little army and tried to start a race war, which is bad.Ed Gein inspired some cool moveis, but he was a sadist and a necrophile who fucked his mum's corpse,which is bad.
Well maybe Manson is alittle less evil, and hey, he made some good music so i'll vote for him.It'll take him longer to to stab me in the head and do things with my body"

(Edited by evil chris at 11:11 am on June 18, 2002)

[j]

Don't vote????!!!!! Have you lost your fucking mind? How is that "taking the power back???"

Look to France for example, they had bad voter turn out and the Socialists lost!!!!!

Vote Vote Vote. If you don't you're a moron. I've said it ten times before in this thread but vote in your local elections. The president is rather of no consequence. I mean what would Gore have done that Bush didn't? The point is, if we get liberal minded folks into the Congress, into mayorships, into city council positions, even governors we have made some serious progress!!!

Don't believe the media when they tell you that only the president is important to vote for.

Bloody violent revolution? That won't happen. Who would support that with the exception of a few radicals? Remember that even Che recognized that you must exhaust all means before violence in a semi-democractic system.

j

[Lefty]

fuck it, vote for nader, he's the only mildly leftist candidate that has a snowballs chance in hell.

[evil chris]

"Don't vote?! Have you lost your fucking mind? How is that "taking the power back?"

right.
Please show me where voteing has actully helped people.
For each one of those there are a dozen when people, organizing themselves and acting outside of the psuedo democratic system have won positive change.Either by implimenting it themselves or by showing such a ground swell of support thatthe governemtn has shit itself and had to back down or risk revolution.

"Look to France for example, they had bad voter turn-out"

wondered why?
Because the parties are the same--currupt and self serving

"and the Socialists lost!"

good.
And by the by, the socialist party urged it's supporters to vote for Chric.
Excuse me???
He told his voteing backers that, if they didn't want to see Nazis in parliment they should vote................Fascist!
ah man! We can see the logic there can't we?!
Viote the far right or the far right.
The whole Le Pen thing was also a non story.If you look at the man's policys and strip away the media toss he's no further right than Pat Buchcanan or Blunkett ando only one or two right on Tony.

"Vote Vote Vote. If you don't you're a moron. "

Gaddamit no! If you vote you are deffering the responsibity to make decisons and to act within your area to improve life-- if you are voteing, and relying on white middle class business men to make decions effecting your life for 5 years- you are a moron!

"Bloody violent revolution? That won't happen. "

i don't recall asking for one.What i did say is that "Liberal Democratic" power has no ligitmacy if you belive in Democracy and therefore you should no vote.

Power To The People

(all of them)




(Edited by evil chris at 2:08 pm on June 19, 2002)

[RGacky3]

You know why the socialists don't have a chance? its becouse people like you don't think they do and thus you don't vote for them, If we all stopped compremising and voted socialist, they would have a chance, of at least local elections or getting into the debates.

[man in the red suit]

you tell em Roman!!

[RedCeltic]

Major reforms need to be made before any third party can have a fighting chance. People voting with their fear and not their hopes doesn't help either.

If the GOP wins who cares? In a presidential election, how much do you think your vote counts anyway? New York voted overwelmingly for Gore in 2000, as did most of the north east. For New York, it wasn't even close. Yet... even though all those people came out and voted for Gore.. Bush still won. ( so they say anyway)

You can vote socialist in many states like New Jersey, Florida, etc... we don't have that luxury in New York, which is why many of us work closely with the Green party.

I agree with many of the issues the Green party stands on, however I think we need to put more pressure on them to be harder on capitalism.

[antieverything]

We really need an instant run off system so that we can actually vote our minds and not worry about having our 3rd party vote be a vote for the republicans.

[RedCeltic]

It's funny how people love to throw the term "Democracy" around yet are oblivious to the fact that the founding fathers where dead set against the kind of democracy that people precieve when they say that word.

Rich land WHITE land owners where the ones who they wanted to have say in government. When they talked about democracy, they ment an equal voice between the plantation owners in the south and the rich merchents in the north.

Representitive democracy was this set up with this in mind. It has no relivance to the presant society in the United States.