Palestine & Israel

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

In light of the upcoming international day of solidarity with the people of Palestine, I suggested a debate on the topic of Israel and Palestine for December 1 for my school's debate club. The resolution is that the United States should withdraw aid to Israel. I also volunteered to be the main speaker for the anti-Zionist side.

The only person who challenged me was a guy who I really don't think is gonna put up a good argument, but we'll see.

Anyways, was just wondering if you guys had any good suggestions? I'm yet to write my speech, so I'm completely open to new sources and ideas.

If somebody has any information or articles regarding recent crimes committed against Palestinians, any figures of how much money the US spends on Israel, any information to back up how this hinders the formation of a Palestinian state, any alternatives to the status quo at all, or anything that you think I could use or should use.

Thanks.

And I'd also like to point out that this is an excellent example of what the Research Forum would be used for and why we need one.

[Eastside Revolt]

Well if they use the usual purile arguments that the muslims are the only problem, you could always sudgest Salt Lake City as a new destination for zionism. :lol:

[Intifada]

The root cause of this bloody conflict is Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.

Basically tell them that without justice for Palestine and an end to Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land, this conflict will never end.

It's that fucking simple.

Give them evidence of American double standards when it comes to this issue.

For example, when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, he was ordered to withdraw by the UN. When Saddam ignored this call, Iraq was attacked by the US so badly that thousands upon thousands were killed. When Israel decided to take full control of the West Bank and Gaza, it was also ordered to get out by the same UN Security Council. That was decades ago. Instead of attacking Israel, the US has continued to reward it with billions of dollars in aid and arms, and helped it develop nuclear weapons.

Israel is led by a war criminal.

Israel illegally occupies another people's land and violates international law, along with the basic rights of the Palestinian population.

Israel possesses WMDs.

Casus belli anyone?

[MiniOswald]

Drag up the past, how this whole mess started, drag up that the basic clause to Israeli claim is that it says so in a book. By a man who does not exist.

YOU CANNOT INVADE A COUNTRY IN THE NAME OF GOD!

Heres a good arguement for what drives palestinian resistance. Goto the person argueing with you. Imagine you are in your home, your sitting down reading a book and drinking your coffee or summet. Then a man from, i dunno say france turns up in an abrams tank in your front garden. You go out and go what the fug are you doing on my lawn? to which the man replies, my god said to in my book here. What would you do? you can't fight him there, he's got an abrams tank, so you have to leave and try to fight back for what is yours and what you deserve.

Yer your zionist opponant will undoubtedly bring up recent suicide bombings. Try looking up that mosque massacre one the israeli general did, gah im sorry i just cant remember the name of the mosque, but anyways he went in and started shooting unarmed palestinians.

Whilst your debating can u plz deliver a little blow at the british empire and our involvement in sparking everything off over there and then running away. Bring up the repeated UN orders, especially that one that designated the zones for israeli's and those for palestinians.

Possibly get some maps of the different stages of israeli occupation as with every war how the state has taken land it has no right to, even more in the Golan heights and the sort.

There was that other one not too long ago too i think it was this year or maybe just the end of last but the israelis bombed that camp in Syria i think it was, there was a bit of debate of whether it was terrorist or refugee but either way they bombed outside of their country. Syria however can no longer afford another war.

And of course you can bring up the famous road map to peace, which i think is currently situated in the glove compartment while george shows off his driving abilities with no hands. I think the only way the ground is gna be leveled in the middle east would take a market crash in the US.

[Blackberry]

Have a look at the following links:

US Aid: http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_web/factsheet_usaid.htm
Palestinian Deaths Due To Israeli Aggression: http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_web/4_...anniversary.htm (http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_web/4_years_intifada_anniversary.htm)
"Separation Wall" Facts: http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_web/factsheet_wall.htm

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Thanks, guys.
That info will certainly help out.

I've heard from right-wingers that the west gives Palestine a lot of aid as well, but he leaders just stick it all in ther pockets. Is there any truth to this, and does anyone have any evidence against it?

Thanks again.

[leftist resistance]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 09:13 PM
Yer your zionist opponant will undoubtedly bring up recent suicide bombings. Try looking up that mosque massacre one the israeli general did, gah im sorry i just cant remember the name of the mosque, but anyways he went in and started shooting unarmed palestinians.


His name was Goldstein.Threw a grenade then started shooting them.If want to know more,it's http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6751

Anyway check out http://www.palestinechronicle.com

[MiniOswald]

Redzep: I remember that the soviet union funded alot of the arabs, hence why egypt jumped the gun and attacked israel. I dont know whether the west gives palestine aid or not, but if they do its definatly nothing like the israelis are getting, hell i dont see the palestinians in F16's and Abrams tanks!

[Emanuel Goldstein II]

Here's my problem with the foregoing Israel/Palestine analysis.

It ignores the persection the Jews have experienced for centuries.

In the holocaust, the world tried to destroy the Jews.

The remnant ended up in "Palestine" (so named by the Roman Emperor who Hadrian who was trying to eliminate the memory of Israel) and tired to build a hme. The UN partitioned the land, but the Arab states rejected that and attacked the fledgling state in 1948.

They lost.

So, the world tried to destroy the Jews, and the Jews fought back.

And that makes people angry...they prefer to see Jews just walk like sheep into the gaschambers.

But that is never going to happen again.

[Guest]

The sentiment has rather changed. People are not generally anti-jew anymore.

[Intifada]

It ignores the persection the Jews have experienced for centuries.


The persecution of Jews does not legitimise the persecution of Palestinians. It does not legitimise the removal of the Palestinian population from their homes.

Two wrongs do not make a right.


In the holocaust, the world tried to destroy the Jews.


The holocaust was carried out by the Nazis, not "the world".


The remnant ended up in "Palestine" (so named by the Roman Emperor who Hadrian who was trying to eliminate the memory of Israel) and tired to build a hme. The UN partitioned the land, but the Arab states rejected that and attacked the fledgling state in 1948.


The state of Israel itself was born following acts of terrorism against the British administration of Palestine. Many of Israel's Prime Ministers have actively taken part in terrorist activity. Ariel Sharon, who Bush infamously declared to be a “man of peace” had blood on his hands long before he became Israel's Prime Minister. Ask him if he remembers Sabra and Shatila.

The UN proposed the partitioning of historic Palestine into two independent states, one Palestinian Arab (45%) and one Jewish (55%).

In 1948, however, Israel, through force, was established on 78% of historic Palestine. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled and no Palestinian state established, creating a massive refugee problem.

In the Six Day War of 1967, Israel siezed and still occupies the remaining 22% of historic Palestine, comprising of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Since 1967, Israel has expropriated around 79% of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, using the land for illegal Israeli settlements, exclusive to Jews, and military encampments.

The settlements and the restrictive road network, comprising of roadblocks and checkpoints, have basically destroyed the territorial contiguity of the Palestinian areas.

Don't get me started on the scams that were Oslo and Camp David.

Ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people has been a crucial aspect of the Zionist project. Herzl wrote himself in 1885: "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country... both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out secretly and circumspectly."

If you were in the shoes of a Palestinian, would you accept an illegal occupation of your homeland?

Would you not resist?

It is ironic that some of us still have not learnt lessons from the past. The conditions in Gaza, Jenin and other Occupied Palestinian Territories are not dissimilar to the conditions in which the residents of the Warsaw ghetto under Nazi occupation lived.

[Mr. J]

It was remarked that the world tried to destroy the Jews...the Nazis were the tools and the world stood by. They wouldn't take the Jews. They hated the Jews.

And that's what this is still about.

Gaza is not the Warsaw Ghetto, that is just an ignorant lie.

And I agree, two wrongs do not make a right.

But a third wrong, throwing the Jews out of Israel...which is all that would satisfy many...would not make it right either.

The other writer remarked that the world is angry because the Jews are not just marching quitely in to the death camps this time.

Don't you get it?

Its not going to happen again.

Face it.

[NoiseUnited]

I agree that much of the world supported Nazi Germany. I don't think it was to attack Jews, but communism. Nazi Germany was seen as a bulwark against an alternative system of government. Though I think Hitler was racist and superstitious about Jews, it was portrayed that most Jews were Communist. When Germany invaded Poland and signed a peace pact with Russia is when Europe went to war with Germany. I am not against Jews living in Israel, I'm against Jews controlling and occupying land that was divided in 1948. Granted the Palestinians did not agree to the initial agreement, it doesn't make it right to go annex more land. After that did happen Palestine agreed and Israel was directed to give back the annexed land to the refugees which were making up appoximately half the population of Palestine at the time. This never happened, and that is where I see the now conflict really stemming from. Not so much WWII. Hell, there were Jews in Palestine fighting for Nazi Germany against the British. The Stern Gang and Irgun killed British, Arabs and Jews. The Haganah fought against Nazi Germany, but they later combined with the Irgun and the Stern Gang after the war. I'm really interested if BOZG has anything to add, he had claimed he knew some IDF. Perhaps s/he could give insight to the armed forces of Israel. By his previous postings in ZDLR.NET it seemed they were fairly ignorant of many facts.

To everyone else wanting different topics of Israeli injustices there are plenty of broken Geneva Convention laws according to the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, in which they were hindered many times in their job to give medical aid to injured persons by the many road blocks and otherwise. I remember about a month back there was reports of false accusations of Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances transporting rockets. Those accusations were the reasons to further buffer zones and demolish more homes and such. There's also the topic of the water in Palestine being controlled by Israel. To what the purpose of this I do not know, but it is not right in my opinion.

I do not know how corrupt Palestinian leaders are as a whole or individually, but there was a consensus in Palestine before Arafat's death that he did not represent the Palestinian people. Perhaps not by all, but definately some.

[Intifada]

It was remarked that the world tried to destroy the Jews...the Nazis were the tools and the world stood by. They wouldn't take the Jews. They hated the Jews.


The world was relatively anti-semetic at the time, but they did not slaughter the Jews in the way that the Nazis did.


And that's what this is still about.


No it is not.

The Palestine-Israel conflict is one between an occupied people and the occupier. It is in no way connected to the discrimination of Jews.

The cause of the violence between the two people is the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories.


Gaza is not the Warsaw Ghetto, that is just an ignorant lie.


Please explain to me the difference between the persecution of Palestinians and the persecution of Jews. Israel has permanently bantustanized the Palestinians, encircling and isolating them into open-air prisons.


But a third wrong, throwing the Jews out of Israel...which is all that would satisfy many...would not make it right either.


Nobody in this thread has supported such a stupid action.

There will be no peace between Israelis and Palestinians as long as there is occupation and, as a result, injustice. Israel has the power to end the violence by ceasing it's violations of international law and human rights.

[NoiseUnited]

Hey RedZeppelin, did you ever have the debate? If so, let us know how it went. It seems to me an easy win, given there are so many reasons for why Israel bares the responsibility to change policy. So, how'd it go?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The other main speaker gave his speech first, and it kinda sucked. My speech came next and it was much better. I raised some excellent points, but didn't have enough time to get to everything I wanted to point out. The first subsequent speaker tried but failed miserably to make an excuse for Israeli brutality. The next subsequent speaker is a good friend of mine. He's pretty smart and pro-Palestine and was probably gonna say something relevant, but the fire alarm was under repair and it kept going off for several minutes at a time, so we had to postpone the meeting until next Wednesday.

[NoiseUnited]

I've been reading up on this subject and I thought I'd add some more things. There are people on both sides that do not want to see peace with eachother. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade are some on the Palestinian side that I have seen, I could be wrong. PLO have recognized Israel's right to exist. Evidence that there are Jewish people do not want peace is the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (credited for the victory of the 6 Day War) after the Oslo 2 Agreement was signed, which guaranteed Israel's withdraw and holding elections for a Palestinian government. Another instance is when Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat were making agreements in which Israel would pull out of the occupied territories. Then the spark the that lit the powder keg of displeased extremists on both sides (not just Palestine) was Ariel Sharon's visit to the al-Aqsa mosque. This incident is what alot of people attribute Ehud Barak's loss to, in which his attempts at peace were seen as futile. Ironically, Sharon, the one who sparked the violence was elected. It seems like he may very well knew exactlly what he was doing. You may also want to look into the Saudi proposal, which I think is a very good one, and the subsequent Bush proposal, in which the process is still in a positive direction, though at a much slower motion. In which steps were taken towards the peace process, it was haulted again almost immediatlly. Hamas and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade assist in a suicide bombing at a bar in Tel Aviv near the U.S. embassy that kills 3 Israelis and injures 40 others. IDF seize a house of an alleged bomb maker in Gaza Strip. In the ensuing gun battle, 13 Palestinians died, including 3 children. Israeli bulldozers then demolish 16 houses.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

is that better?

[NoiseUnited]

Indeed it is, thank you.

[Kaan]

Israel is the United States' puppet in the middle east to insure control of the region and is simply a tool of U.S. imperialism. If the United States ever withdrew support from the Zionists than Israel would fall completely. Scapegoating of the Holocaust does not justify Zio-Imperialism and the persecution of an entire people (You'd think most Jews would understand this).


It was remarked that the world tried to destroy the Jews...the Nazis were the tools and the world stood by. They wouldn't take the Jews. They hated the Jews.

And that's what this is still about.


Actually, it wasn't until quite recently that anti-Judaism (not anti-semitism, for that means anti-arab) flourished in the middle-east. Under the Ottoman Empire Jews lived in relative peace with the Muslim population so long as they payed there taxes, it wasn't until the British carved up arab land that anti-judaism began on a large scale.

[leftist resistance]

Isrealis should stop occupying palestinian land

[NoiseUnited]

I definately agree. Much procrastination is what you get when that topic is enacted upon. Procrastination, in my opinion, is the root of the problem. At least, that is what we're led to believe. That Israel has priorities to deal with first, and they will deal with the occupied territories at a later date. This is what was said in 1948, this is what is being said now. Which such a hasty withdrawal from the Sinai at US's command, I don't see why it is impossible for Israel to withdraw from occupied Palestine, or Syria for that matter. You could argue that Palestine and Israel are still at war, therefore are legally allowed to occupy Palestine, but not Syria. Personally, I think they only reason Israel continually occupies Palestine and expands their territories is because America doesn't say they don't have to stop. Ariel Sharon has been having talks of peace as of lately, such as freeing hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Palestine is collecting people on their side to side with their intentions for a peaceful Palestine including Syrian leadership, of which relations had been very shaky since the Oslo Agreements. Shaky because Syria felt that their obvious problems with Israel (Golan Heights) were not addressed by Palestine. But now, post-Arafat, relations have been restored.

Red, can you help me again? the above message is mine. I'll get used to this forum -soon enough, I hope.

[Intifada]

That Israel has priorities to deal with first, and they will deal with the occupied territories at a later date.

Israel will not withdraw from the Occupied Palestinian Territories because that would go against the concept of Zionism itself.


You could argue that Palestine and Israel are still at war

It is an asymmetric conflict between a powerful and well-equipped Israeli Army and helpless Palestinians with nothing.


Personally, I think they only reason Israel continually occupies Palestine and expands their territories is because America doesn't say they don't have to stop.

Not really. Although, if the US was to withdraw financial aid from the state of Israel, the occupation would become to expensive to sustain.

The root of the problem is the illegal occupation of Palestinian land.

What makes the plight of the Palestinians even more tragic is the fact that the international community (in particular the world's superpower: USA) is oblivious to their suffering.

[NoiseUnited]

The definition of Zionism is very different from what it once have meant. People seem to think the concept of zionism means the ever expansion of Israel, or the want to keep occupied territories in Palestine. The original definition is the creation of a Jewish state. I'm not against the latter definition, as their government is a democracy and not a theocracy. Though, I feel their Arab citizens are treated as second-class and are unfairly identified as different in their ID's. Still, as it is, I'm not against a Jewish State. I am only against the repression that state gives to it's neighboring country, because Israeli people occupy Palestine. Despite the lack of weapons Palestine has, one could still argue there is an ongoing war. That is not my arguement though. I still believe if the US instructed Israel to withdraw from occupation, it would be fulfilled with little arguement. Do you have anything that contradicts this assumption?

[Intifada]

People seem to think the concept of zionism means the ever expansion of Israel, or the want to keep occupied territories in Palestine. The original definition is the creation of a Jewish state.

The Jewish state was to be formed on Palestinian land.

Occupation of Palestinian land is the begining of a process of ethnic cleansing, and eventually the formation of the state of Israel.

History tells us that the Zionists are interested in one thing: Expansion.

In 1948, Israel, partly through force, was established on 78% of historic Palestine. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled and no Palestinian state established, creating a massive refugee problem.

In the Six Day War of 1967, Israel siezed and still occupies the remaining 22% of historic Palestine, comprising of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Since 1967, Israel has expropriated around 79% of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, using the land for illegal Israeli settlements, exclusive to Jews, and military encampments.

Ben-Gurion said it himself: "We shall drive them (Palestinians) out and take their place".


their government is a democracy

Hardly. Israel is not a democracy, although it could be argued no country on Earth is truly democratic.

Why Israel is Not a Democracy (http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/494/494p11.htm)

Israel has no constitution. Israel is defined as the state of the Jewish people, providing special rights and privileges to anyone in the world who is Jewish and seeks to live there, over and above longtime Arab residents. Israel bars any candidate from holding office who thinks the country should be a secular, democratic state with equal rights for all. Non-Jews are restricted in terms of how much land they can own, and in which places they can own land at all, thanks to laws granting preferential treatment to Jewish residents. Even the Israeli Supreme Court has acknowledged the use of torture against suspected "terrorists" and other "enemies" of the Jewish state.



I still believe if the US instructed Israel to withdraw from occupation, it would be fulfilled with little arguement.

Probably, because Israel is reliant on US aid, but the chances of that happening are very slim indeed.

The Americans have been forced to frown upon some actions by Isreal in the past, though this would never materialise into proper condemnation.

[NoiseUnited]

It was Palestinian land, but it's not like no Jews lived there. There are plenty of things to be mad about Israel when it comes to things that suggest ethnic cleansing, but to say that all zionists want that would be flawed in certain connotations. From what I understand Israel annexed land in 1948 that accumulated to a total of 2/3 of Palestine. And through subsequent wars and other violent methods more land was appropriated. Many of their leaders have said bad things, Golda Meir comes to my mind. The only reason I have called it a democracy is that anyone can be a part of politics. There are Arabs and women in Israeli politics. Those reasons you have given would point otherwise, such as amount of land owned to an arab would suggest him to be a second-class citizens. I must admit I was ignorant of laws barring anyone wanting to change Israeli policy. To say that America will never properly condemn the actions of Israel though is very pessimistic. The only reason it's allowed to go on is because as you have said earlier is the oblivious mass of 'educated' people. Therefore if they were educated it would not be able to go on. Perhaps it wouldn't be condemned as thorougly as you might like, but it would surely get better. Just so I know, what is your position on Israel? Do you think the Jews should withdraw completely from Palestine? Do you think the Israeli government should meld with Palestinian government and just be one state? Or do you think Israel should relinquish the occupied territories and go back to the 1948 borders? or otherwise?

[Intifada]

There are plenty of things to be mad about Israel when it comes to things that suggest ethnic cleansing, but to say that all zionists want that would be flawed in certain connotations. From what I understand Israel annexed land in 1948 that accumulated to a total of 2/3 of Palestine.

Ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people has been a crucial aspect of the Zionist project. Herzl wrote himself in 1885: "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country... both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out secretly and circumspectly."

In 1938 Ben-Gurion defended this concept of "population transfer" by saying: "I favour partition of the country because when we become a strong power after the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and spread throughout all of Palestine."

Before the UN resolution the Jews owned only 6.6% of historic Palestine. The rest belonged to the Arab people. For hundreds of years, the Palestinians had owned this land and it's possessions. The majority of people living in Palestine were Arabs, yet the UN gave more than half of the land to the Zionists.

Right after the UN resolution was passed, Zionist forces made sure that all "their" land was clear of Arabs, through Plan Gimmel and Plan D.

As a result, more than 750000 Palestinians fled from their homes, while 531 Arab villages were emptied and destroyed. For example, in July 1948, 50000 Palestinians were forcefully expelled under direct orders from Ben Gurion from the towns of Lydda and Ramle. Women, children and the elderly were forcefully marched towards Jordan where many died on the march.


Many of their leaders have said bad things

True.

Many Israeli leaders have also taken part in horrible things. People such as Yitzhak Shamir and Menachim Begin belonged to the notorious Stern Gang and Irgun, two Israeli terrorist organisatioins.


To say that America will never properly condemn the actions of Israel though is very pessimistic.

It may be a negative opinion, but, in my view it is realistic.

Our job is to create awareness of the situation and, as you said, educate the people. This in turn will most likely put pressure on Western Governments to do more about the Palestinian plight.


Just so I know, what is your position on Israel? Do you think the Jews should withdraw completely from Palestine? Do you think the Israeli government should meld with Palestinian government and just be one state? Or do you think Israel should relinquish the occupied territories and go back to the 1948 borders? or otherwise?

One socialist state for both Palestinians and Israelis. The likelihood of this occurring may seem small but can happen. There needs to be an organised and unified group of Palestinian and Israeli people to help dismantle the racist state of Israel.

It is silly and irrational to advocate the destruction of Israel. Whereas the two state solution can never happen because of the nature of Zionism and the extremist elements on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides.

[leftist resistance]

Just so I know, what is your position on Israel? Do you think the Jews should withdraw completely from Palestine? Do you think the Israeli government should meld with Palestinian government and just be one state? Or do you think Israel should relinquish the occupied territories and go back to the 1948 borders? or otherwise?

I think Israel should stop occupying Palestine.The army should stop harrasing Palestinians.


To say that America will never properly condemn the actions of Israel though is very pessimistic.

America has never properly condemn the actions of Israel.The most is "We regret such things...".Most often than not,America would side with Israel.



As a result, more than 750000 Palestinians fled from their homes, while 531 Arab villages were emptied and destroyed. For example, in July 1948, 50000 Palestinians were forcefully expelled under direct orders from Ben Gurion from the towns of Lydda and Ramle. Women, children and the elderly were forcefully marched towards Jordan where many died on the march.


One of the many atrocities suffered by the Palestinians.

Please visit these sites:

http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/ (Dir Yassin massacre)

http://www.indictsharon.net/ (Sabra and Shatila massacre case)

[NoiseUnited]

If want to go about changing Israel without the change in American influence that is fine. I personally believe if more of the public is aware of whats actually going on, it will be effective in changing America's policy towards Israel. If you have a better method, by all means enlighten me. I have similar view of wanting the occupied territories after the 1948 British mandate to be relinquished to Palestinians and the IDF's removal from Palestine. Though this would be a huge step, I don't think peace would be completely established. Theres still the holy site of Jerusalem, specifically the al-Aqsa mosque. This will still be a reason for any extremist factions to lash out. I'm currentlly uncertain on my possition on Jerusalem. Perhaps someone else has an opinion on this subject specifically?

[Intifada]

I'm currentlly uncertain on my possition on Jerusalem. Perhaps someone else has an opinion on this subject specifically?

Jerusalem is not an exception when it comes to the occupation of Palestinian land. Teddy Kollek, former Mayor of West Jerusalem, summarised what was happening in East Jerusalem in an interview on 10 October 1990, after the Temple Mount massacre.

We have uttered a lot of nonsense, but have failed to implement anything. We have declared, on several occasions, that we would extend equal rights to Jews and Arabs in the city--- but those were empty words. Levi Eshkol and Menachem Begin made commitments to grant equality to the Arabs, but neither of them kept his promises and never provided them even with a semblance of equality under the law; they were and remain second- and third-class citizens... I did something for Jewish Jerusalem during the past 25 years, but in East Jerusalem nothing! What did I do? Schools? Nothing. Pavements? Nothing. Cultural centers? None. Yes, we did build a sewerage system for them and we improved the water supply. Do you know why? When several cholera cases were declared on the Arab side [early 1970s], the Jews panicked at the prospect of the disease reaching them, so we set up the sewage and water networks to contain the cholera."


ID cards owned by Arab residents of Jerusalem are confiscated by Israeli authorities. With these cards confiscated they lose their right to work in the city, the right to educational and health facilities, to insurance, and to social welfare benefits. But this policy of exclusion has backfired, and in fact, more Palestinians inhabit Jerusalem than ever before.

Illegal Israeli settlements continue to be built on expropriated land, whereas Palestinian homes continue to be destroyed.

Since 1967, Israel has expropriated approximately 34% of East Jerusalem's land area for "public use". Over 2000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israeli Occupation forces since 1967, and permission to build homes in East Jerusalem can cost up to $30000.

Overall, since 1967, over 60000 Palestinians have lost their residency rights in East Jerusalem.

Israel is also intends to keep as much sovereignty as possible on key Muslim sites such as the Al-Aqsa Mosque, only aggravating the situation even more.

[NoiseUnited]

Thanks for the reply, it's a good base for the issue of Jerusalem. I will take it into consideration in adopting or creating a personal theory for a peaceful Palestine/Israel. :)

[Guest]

I saw this the other day, thought it was relevant. http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=6214
Make your own conclusions.