Spanish revolution

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

what where the republicans actual political aliment . I know they where called communists but they never said they were. I know that they stood for the complete separation of church and sate and the abolishment of the monarchy , but what where their beliefs?

[Intifada]

The Republicans were basically a group containing Communists, Anarchists, Liberals, Anti-Clericals and other supporters of the elected Government.

They simply consisted of those who wished to preserve the legitimate Government of the time.

The Nationalists wanted to overthrow this Government for a variety of reasons. One of their main motives at the time was to confront the Government's anti-clericalism and to "defend the Catholic Church".

It wasn't really an ideoligical war between Communists and Fascists.

It was a Civil-War.

[Tupac-Amaru]

May i suggest "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell. There you'll find a lot about the Spanish Civil war! (Orwell faught on the Republican side with the international brigades, so he knows his shit :P )

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Excellent article on the Anarchist collectives in the Spanish country side

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/ws99/ws56_spain.html

[Osman Ghazi]

The Republicans (I should say the republican government) were about as socialist as the Partido Socialista is now. That is to say, nominally.

However, the Republican soldiers ran the gamut from liberals to anarchists. The Anarchists were concentrated in Catalonia, clustered around Barcelona. They recieved material support from the USSR though not in the numbers that the Nationalists got from the Italian ts and Nazis. In the end, the Communists and the true republicans (liberals) ganged up on the anarchists in the hope that a peace could be made with Franco.

The Nationalist side was similarly fractured. On the one hand, you have clearly t parties like the Falange, which became Franco's party, simple nationalist militarists like Franco himself who simply wanted to be Caudillo and restore the patria to its fromer state. there were also Catholic extremists like the Carlists (named after the losing side of a very old war that brought about a somewhat progessive government in 1830) and even Monarchists who wanted to restore the recently deposed Alfonso the 7th (I think).

[PRC-UTE]

what where the republicans actual political aliment . I know they where called communists but they never said they were. I know that they stood for the complete separation of church and sate and the abolishment of the monarchy , but what where their beliefs?

I don't know if you mean the Left who fought against fascsism (which were divided over the issue of reform/revolution) or the actual Republican parties in Spain?

Well the republicans were usually petit bourgseoisie. They were standard liberal republicans who favoured seperation of church and state, reforms to the military, breakup of the Society of Jesus and Spain being rid of the monarchy.

[komon]

there never was a spanish revolution only a fascist reaction.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by Tupac-[email protected] 20 2004, 04:27 PM
(Orwell faught on the Republican side with the international brigades, so he knows his shit :P )
He fought in the Lenin brigades of the P.O.U.M thought i'd point that out because whenever someone says the "international brigades" people think of stalin loveing "communists".

[komon]

aaah fuck your relation to orwell ......
if you don't understand pm me.......
civil war in spain is about facsisme......and the front populaire was cappie,,,,,the poum was stalinist....and only duruti was ok.........

[eyedrop]

civil war in spain is about facsisme......and the front populaire was cappie,,,,,the poum was stalinist....and only duruti was ok.........



Well it started out as only fascisme as the fascist tried to trow a coup de etat because they were unsatisfied with the government. The interesting ting happened when the government showed it's inability of fending off the coup. The workers took to arms and fought the fascist in much of Spain and managed to keep close to a half of it. Much of the militias that then followed were organised after anarchist principles with the "officers" orders being followed by respect and understanding, often the rank and file demanded to know why they did things before they did it.


Later most of the militias where forced into the popular army (front?) because the government had managed to slowly gain more control over resources and Russian aid. The Popular Army had as much hierachy as possible and it's leadership was on the side of the government, which was capitalistic.

According to Orwell the POUM was not stalinist as the POUM militias he fought had an totally different approach to hierarchy to the british army he was used to. He was surprised at how it could work with as it did with no officers forcing the militia. (they had officers but not in the usual way) How can you explain that the POUM was outlawed by the Stalin controlled government if it was Stalinist? It certainly was after the Barcelona uprising.

It was not only Durruti that was ok, what about all the collectives in Aragorn that was attacked by the government controlled forces in July 1937, since they had to be attacked to break up the anti-hierchial organisation there.

The difference between Friends of Durruti (The Iron column) was that they were opposed to putting the revolution on hold and wait till after the war to go through with it. They are therefore seen as the heroes of the war as they refused to abandon they're principles. Because of it they had to steal weapons and supplies.

[komon]

How can you explain that the POUM was outlawed by the Stalin controlled government if it was Stalinist? It certainly was after the Barcelona uprising.

stalin never got an alliance with hitler,after stalingrad.

[RedAnarchist]

Che had a map of Spain on his wall during the Spanish Civil War and he followed it on the map - i assume he supported the Republican side.

[komon]

Che had a map of Spain on his wall during the Spanish Civil War and he followed it on the map - i assume he supported the Republican side.

i think this was not to follow franco

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

To clarify, the POUM were decidedly not Stalinists, and were branded Trotskyites by the official USSR-associated "commies". In Barcelona, the POUM fought with the Anarchists against Republican forces, and steadfastly maintained that the civil war and social revolution were inseperable.

Viva POUM!

[The Grapes of Wrath]

Bringing up dead issues but I'm on a roll.

Both the Republicans and the Nationalists were composed of many different factions, parties and more ancronyms than you can shake a stick at. This is from Antony Beevor's "The Spanish Revolution" ...

The Republicans:

Union Republicana
Martinez Barro's center right party. Based on liberal professionals and businessmen.

Izquierda Republicana
Alliance of Galician autonomy oarty and Radical Socialists. Was supported by liberal professionals, small business, teachers and lower middle class.

Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya
Cataln nationalist party ... seeking Catalan autonomy.

Partido Socialista Obrero De Espana (PSOE)
Spanish Socialist Worker's Party with both LEft and Right "wings" and centrists.

Partido Communista de Espana (PCE)
Spanish Communist Party, moved from "revolutionary vanguard" party tactics to new Comintern policy of seeking alliance with bourgeois parties in Europe against fascism. Belief in centralism and authority, brought it close ties to Right "wing" socialists and liberals who wanted government control.

Partido Socialista Unificado de Catalunya (PSUC)
United Socialist Party of Catalonia, gradually taken over by and then allied to the PCE.

Partido Obrero de Unificacion de Marxista (POUM)
Workers' Party of Marxist Unification, small party led by Andres Nin, former secretary to Trotsky (he dissociated himself from Trotsky). Mainly in western Catalonia. Eventually outlawed.

Confederacion Nacional de Trabajo (CNT)
National Confederation of Labor, anarcho-syndicalist trade unions.

Federacion Anarquista Iberica (FAI)
Iberian Anarchist Federation was an anarchist pressure group within the CNT (sort of a "political" wing of the Anarchists in my opinion, an oxymoron, I know).

Basque Parties:
Basque Nationalist Party (PNV) made up of conservative Christian democrats.
Social Democratic splinter of PNV is the ANV (Accion Nacionalista Vasca).
Basque Catholic trade unions (STV).


The Nationalists:
Monarchists
Wanted the return of the King Alfonso XIII to rule Spain, little popular support.

Carlists
Stood for Don Carlos as king, and wanted an "traditionalist" ultra-Catholic monarchy. Main base of support was Navarrese small landowners.

Falange
Begun by Primo de Rivera as small, fascist style party with the support of "modern reactionaries" who believed in a strong, yet traditional Spain. Eventually merged with the Carlists in 1937 to form the Falange Espanola Tradicianalista y de las JONS or FET for short.

I hope that helps and finally puts it to rest. Oh yes, one more thing ... Che was born in 1928, and in 1936, he would have been about 8 years old. I don't know about you, but I certainly was not literate in the goings on the world at 8 years old. He may have had a poster of Spain in his room, but it seems doubtful that he could fathom what was going on, let alone, what it all really meant. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems logical.

And oh yes, Viva POUM!

[trotsky_lives]

Sorry lads. To say there was no revolution is typical Stalinist history-rewriting.
1) The republican government was elected on a programme of ending the domination of Spanish society by the clergy, land reform for the peasants, and an end to poverty and oppression at the hands of the capitalists. When the governemnt was too slow to move on any of these promises, workers and peasants went on strike, took over factories lobbied for land reform and various other generally small actions like these. Therefore the government appearred to be incapable of solving any ones problems (bosses or workers). The capitalists couldn't rely on the government so they looked for an alliance of all those who would lose out if the workers took power - capitalists, some small businesses, landowners, clergy etc. - and then rallied around certain generals in the army (sons of those listed above). They revolted and the Civil war began - THAT MUCH IS TRUE.


BUT

what happened when the troops revolted? the Republic had no armed forces to speak of (except for some airforce and if i'm not mistaken, some in the navy) In those first few days the young Spanish republic was saved by the workers taking to the streets, taking over factories, calling a general strikes, forming workers militias, demanding and then taking arms and marching off to put down the revolt, peasants then took over the landed estates and organied themselves into collectives. But apart from all that KOMON.. your right, there never was a revolution!!!!!!!



There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.