Just Curious

[sparky44]

I'm really just curious, but after reading your posts on Cuba what I really would like to know is just how much time have you actually spent in Cuba???

[1949]

Who are you talking to, and why does it matter how much time they have spent in Cuba?

[sparky44]

This is directed at everyone.....all I seem to see at this sight is misinformation about Cuba and it's political system......from people who have spent very little or no time there.......and are only quoting from books or statistics......

[1949]

One does not need to visit Cuba to comment on the conditions there, just as one does not need to visit Britain, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Belarus, Japan, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, India, Nepal, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, the Philippines, Libya, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Mexico, Uruguay, Nicaragua or any other country in the world to comment on that particular country.

The vast majority of people that ever comment on a particular country have probably never been there. If we were going to use such empirical logic for everything, we probably would never be able to comment on anything.

If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist, and needs a new revolution led by a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist vanguard party to acheive socialism and pave the way to world communism. Nevertheless, I defend Cuba from the slanders of the imperialists and wish for the brutal U.S. embargo to end.

[Vinny Rafarino]

If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist, and needs a new revolution led by a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist vanguard party to acheive socialism and pave the way to world communism. Nevertheless, I defend Cuba from the slanders of the imperialists and wish for the brutal U.S. embargo to end.

That's just plain creepy.



One does not need to visit Cuba to comment on the conditions there, just as one does not need to visit Britain, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Belarus, Japan, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, India, Nepal, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria, the Philippines, Libya, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Mexico, Uruguay, Nicaragua or any other country in the world to comment on that particular country.


This is however a valid point. (one young sparky here did not think of) I can't wait to see some absurd remark about how it's not necessary to visit "free" countries to understand their politics.

[gaf]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 14 2004, 12:43 AM

That's just plain creepy.




This is however a valid point. (one young sparky here did not think of) I can't wait to see some absurd remark about how it's not necessary to visit "free" countries to understand their politics.
i don't know where you come from raf ,but i guess not from germany......
and sparky good pertinent question btw.....i never went there .but i may .not for castro.
but to fight US stupidity

[redstar2000]

Not a very good question, sparky.

If some wealthy tourist spends a week in Cuba, does that make them "better informed" than someone who's read dozens or hundreds of books on the subject?

I'll grant you that if someone goes to Cuba and lives there like an ordinary Cuban for a year or two, they'd certainly be very well informed on what it's like to live in Cuba.

But unless they studied Cuban history, they still wouldn't know more than a few scraps they might have picked up along the way. Or Cuban culture, or even Cuban music. I hate to sound like "Captain Obvious", but you really do have to study stuff if you want to learn it.

I spent two months in Cuba...but that was 40 years ago. Wouldn't I look foolish trying to pass off my "superior knowledge" of Cuban life based on such a shaky foundation?

I believe that some of the Canadian members of this board have visited Cuba recently...for a few weeks. But if you want to know what it's like to live there, then you actually have to do that.

And even then, your knowledge will be confined to what one person can see, experience, etc.

I suspect that your "knowledge of Cuba" is based on your older relatives and their associates...who found their privileges reduced or abolished in the course of the revolution there.

Not unbiased sources, to put it mildly.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

How long have you spent in Batista's Cuba?
Was that better, was it?

Go back to your fucking traitor gusano husband.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

http://www.asbandeiras.hpg.ig.com.br/02america/cuba.JPG

Long live the revolution, ass-hole.

[ComradeChris]

Hopefully next summer I'll have spent a month there with a video camera. :)

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 07:39 AM
How long have you spent in Batista's Cuba?
Was that better, was it?

Go back to your fucking traitor gusano husband.
Is that the best you can do you old geiser???? Did the nurses at the nursing home you reside in not give you your happy pills today or did someone piss in your bran today???

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 08:50 AM
Is that the best you can do you old geiser????
I don't think he needed to do any better, because redstar2000 and I already pretty much did the job.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Somebody took my profile seriously. :lol:
Clearly you know everything about Cuba's revolution and Fidel Castro, eh?
:lol:

You're a fuckin joke.

We know enough about socialism and about capitalism to know that people in Cuba are not subjugated by their economic class enemy. We know that because of the revolution, Cubans now enjoy a standard of living higher than that of any other latin American country. We know that unlike in the rest of the world, Cubans have equality. Cubans are free from exploitation and hierarchal oppression. They're free from capital.

You may benefit from capitalism, but maybe next time you should give the rest of us a moment's thought before go 'round advocating your won class interests as the common good.

Slavery has been good to you, because you're on the privileged side.

Now go enjoy your "freedom" as an American and go support your favorite capitalist political party.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 05:19 PM
Somebody took my profile seriously. :lol:
Clearly you know everything about Cuba's revolution and Fidel Castro, eh?
:lol:

You're a fuckin joke.

We know enough about socialism and about capitalism to know that people in Cuba are not subjugated by their economic class enemy. We know that because of the revolution, Cubans now enjoy a standard of living higher than that of any other latin American country. We know that unlike in the rest of the world, Cubans have equality. Cubans are free from exploitation and hierarchal oppression. They're free from capital.

You may benefit from capitalism, but maybe next time you should give the rest of us a moment's thought before go 'round advocating your won class interests as the common good.

Slavery has been good to you, because you're on the privileged side.

Now go enjoy your "freedom" as an American and go support your favorite capitalist political party.
First of all....NO ONE knows everything about everything.....secondly.....I am NOT AN AMERICAN.....Are you that stupid?? I've told you before I am a Canadian and not an American....or can't you read????

Never claimed to know everything about the Revolution or Castro....but I do know what I've seen and my husband and his family know what they have lived with. Maybe you need to go and live there and see that it isn't what you think it is. If it was this eutopia that you think it is people wouldn't be leaving like they do. Just because people emigrate to other countries doesn't make them traitors to their own country....if it did then there would be an awful lot of traitors in this world.

When was the last time you spent anytime in Cuba.....living amongst the Cubans??? Or are you one of these punks that just talks and has no real experience there????

Now go back to your piss filled cheerios and happy pills and get a life.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 02:26 AM
Not a very good question, sparky.

If some wealthy tourist spends a week in Cuba, does that make them "better informed" than someone who's read dozens or hundreds of books on the subject?

I'll grant you that if someone goes to Cuba and lives there like an ordinary Cuban for a year or two, they'd certainly be very well informed on what it's like to live in Cuba.

But unless they studied Cuban history, they still wouldn't know more than a few scraps they might have picked up along the way. Or Cuban culture, or even Cuban music. I hate to sound like "Captain Obvious", but you really do have to study stuff if you want to learn it.

I spent two months in Cuba...but that was 40 years ago. Wouldn't I look foolish trying to pass off my "superior knowledge" of Cuban life based on such a shaky foundation?

I believe that some of the Canadian members of this board have visited Cuba recently...for a few weeks. But if you want to know what it's like to live there, then you actually have to do that.

And even then, your knowledge will be confined to what one person can see, experience, etc.

I suspect that your "knowledge of Cuba" is based on your older relatives and their associates...who found their privileges reduced or abolished in the course of the revolution there.

Not unbiased sources, to put it mildly.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
While it is true that studying the history of a country is important.....living there for extended periods will give you much more hands on experience. Spending 2 months living in Cuba 40 years ago is fine and good.....try it now.....times have changed and not necessarily for the better. Oppression does occur on a regular basis there....don't fool yourself into thinking that it doesn't...remember Castro only tells the world what he wants them to hear....the fairy tales....not the horror stories.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 05:08 PM
I don't think he needed to do any better, because redstar2000 and I already pretty much did the job.
No you didn't 1949....your view is absolutely creepy......

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

First of all....NO ONE knows everything about everything.....secondly.....I am NOT AN AMERICAN.....Are you that stupid?? I've told you before I am a Canadian and not an American....or can't you read????

Makes no difference.


Never claimed to know everything about the Revolution or Castro

I said you didn't know shit because you didn't get my profile.
August 13, 1926 is Fidels' birthday. But you didn't know that because you're a pretentious and ignorant fuckwit.


I do know what I've seen and my husband and his family know what they have lived with. Maybe you need to go and live there and see that it isn't what you think it is. If it was this eutopia that you think it is people wouldn't be leaving like they do.

I don't think it's a utopia, I realize that Cubans face many hardships. But don't you think that if, say Mexicans had the means to go to America they wouldn't? In the third world, the impoverished people in countryside flock to the cities every day. If they could, every South American would be in America.

Why don't you tell me why capitalism is so great if people living in capitalist "democracies" flee to other nations, starve, dehydrate, freeze to death, and die of easily preventable diseases every day. By the thousands. Why is that?

But that doesn't happen in Cuba.

Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that.

And learn how to spell utopia, dumbshit.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 05:59 PM

Makes no difference.



I said you didn't know shit because you didn't get my profile.
August 13, 1926 is Fidels' birthday. But you didn't know that bceause you're a prestentious and ignorant fuckwit.



I don't think it's a utopia, I realize that Cubans face many hardships. But don't you think that if, say Mexicans had the means to go to America they wouldn't? In the third world, the empoverished people in countryside flock to the cities every day. If they could, every South American would be in America.

Why don't you tell me why capitalism is so great if people living in capitalist "democracies" flee to other nations, starve, dehydrate, freeze to death, and die of easily preventable diseases every day. By the thousands. Why is that?

But that doesn't happen in Cuba.

Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that.

And learn how to spell utopia, dumbshit.
Speak for yourself......why are you such a hateful person??? Did someone hurt you or take your toys away when you were a child???? I couldn't give a rats ass when his birthday is....I DON'T CARE.....more important things in life then knowing when his birthday is.

And if you've noticed....which I doubt with your hate filled clouded mind.....Mexicans walk into the US of A everyday.....there are many illegal immigrants there.....just look around.

So tell me clueless one....since you claim to know everything.....what preventable diseases do we in capitalist nations die of that they don't die of in Cuba???? I've seen an awful lot of hypertension, heart disease and diabetes in Cuba.....and those can be prevented.

And by the way.....there will always be poverty.....it's been with us since the beginning of time......even Jesus said there will be poor always.....

Asshole....if you think that you can change the world then go ahead....and I'll watch as you fall on your face.

Oh and by the way.....i didn't spell utopia wrong on purpose.....it was a typo.....or are those not allowed???? Are you the spelling police????

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:49 AM
No you didn't 1949....your view is absolutely creepy......
Elaborate. And by the way, know that your answer to redstar2000 was totally lame. Assuming he even bothers with you any longer, he will easily refute you, considering how many debates he wins with RCPers at AWIP (which are the smartest people I've ever seen on the 'net).


why are you such a hateful person???
Maybe he comes off as "hateful" in retaliation to your petty flames, like:


Is that the best you can do you old geiser???? Did the nurses at the nursing home you reside in not give you your happy pills today or did someone piss in your bran today???
<_<


And by the way.....there will always be poverty.....it&#39;s been with us since the beginning of time......even Jesus said there will be poor always.....
Jesus lived in the era where slavery was the dominant mode of production. Poverty has existed since the emergence of class society and the state. It did not exist in primitive communism (which was at "the beginning of time"), did not exist in developed socialist societies and will not exist in modern communism.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Speak for yourself......why are you such a hateful person???

I just hate gusano *****es like your husband and the brutally oppressive ruling class that you ass-holes condone.


And if you&#39;ve noticed....which I doubt with your hate filled clouded mind.....Mexicans walk into the US of A everyday.....there are many illegal immigrants there.....just look around.

That&#39;s exactly my point. Folks from the capitalist third world live in much worst condition than Cubans and flock to the US in much larger numbers.


So tell me clueless one....since you claim to know everything.....what preventable diseases do we in capitalist nations die of that they don&#39;t die of in Cuba???? I&#39;ve seen an awful lot of hypertension, heart disease and diabetes in Cuba.....and those can be prevented.

"Capitalist countries" includes the third world.


And by the way.....there will always be poverty.....it&#39;s been with us since the beginning of time......even Jesus said there will be poor always.....

Fuck Jesus.
Out of all the reactionary shit I&#39;ve read and heard from Christians, that&#39;s gotta be one of the worst.
There are plenty of resources and goods in the world today for everyone to enjoy a standard of living much higher than today&#39;s average.

To tell people that the miserable conditions they live in is an innevitability is criminal.

As long as there is capitalism, you are right, there will be poverty. That&#39;s why capitalism sucks.


Oh and by the way.....i didn&#39;t spell utopia wrong on purpose.....it was a typo.....or are those not allowed???? Are you the spelling police????

No, I just like to scrutinize stupid capitalists&#39; posts.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

sparky44

Oppression does occur on a regular basis there

Of course we know that oppression occurs daily in the US. You don&#39;t have to remind us. ;)

1949

did not exist in developed socialist societies

Hahahateeheesnort. Are you seriously trying to tell us there was no difference in material wealth between a high-ranking party official and a post-revolutionary peasant?
Don&#39;t get me wrong, conditions for the peasants improved, but to say that they achieved the same levels as &#39;higher-ups&#39; is simply ludicrous.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 05:40 PM
First of all....NO ONE knows everything about everything.....secondly.....I am NOT AN AMERICAN.....Are you that stupid?? I&#39;ve told you before I am a Canadian and not an American....or can&#39;t you read????

Never claimed to know everything about the Revolution or Castro....but I do know what I&#39;ve seen and my husband and his family know what they have lived with. Maybe you need to go and live there and see that it isn&#39;t what you think it is. If it was this eutopia that you think it is people wouldn&#39;t be leaving like they do. Just because people emigrate to other countries doesn&#39;t make them traitors to their own country....if it did then there would be an awful lot of traitors in this world.

When was the last time you spent anytime in Cuba.....living amongst the Cubans??? Or are you one of these punks that just talks and has no real experience there????

Now go back to your piss filled cheerios and happy pills and get a life.
I&#39;m sure community block-watches must be annoying, not being able to smoke weed must be annoying, only being able to eat a small selection of meals must be annoying.

This does not compare to having your entire well being on the line, constantly.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 07:59 PM
Elaborate. And by the way, know that your answer to redstar2000 was totally lame. Assuming he even bothers with you any longer, he will easily refute you, considering how many debates he wins with RCPers at AWIP (which are the smartest people I&#39;ve ever seen on the &#39;net).


Maybe he comes off as "hateful" in retaliation to your petty flames, like:


<_<


Jesus lived in the era where slavery was the dominant mode of production. Poverty has existed since the emergence of class society and the state. It did not exist in primitive communism (which was at "the beginning of time"), did not exist in developed socialist societies and will not exist in modern communism.
Let the man refute me......if he bothers to.....I could care less if he wins debates or not.....takes a lot more than that to impress me.

Red Zeppelen comes off as hateful because he is hateful.....if a person wants to leave a country doesn&#39;t make him a traitor gusano *****. Maybe he&#39;s hateful because he&#39;s oppressed....but remember that if he lived in Cuba he wouldn&#39;t have the material wealth that he has where he lives now.

There is always going to be the haves and the have nots......I can&#39;t change that nor do I disagree that there is enough to go around but since I have no control over how it is divided around the world.....but I can say this.....if you give the poor a fish they eat for a day but if you teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime. Instead of giving a handout try giving them a hand up.....

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 06:57 PM
There is always going to be the haves and the have nots
Nice way of dodging everything I said.


but I can say this.....if you give the poor a fish they eat for a day but if you teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime. Instead of giving a handout try giving them a hand up.....
Which is exactly why socialist societies were the first in the history of class society to abolish unemployment.

[sparky44]

Didn&#39;t dodge anything.....it&#39;s just reality and you need to face it....if you can. And if you think there is no unemployment in Cuba they you are truly blind.....and a jack ass.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Red Zeppelen comes off as hateful because he is hateful.....if a person wants to leave a country doesn&#39;t make him a traitor gusano *****.

Yes it does.
It&#39;s cowardly to leave your country because it doesn&#39;t pander to your personal corrupt class interests. And I hate the coward traitor gusano *****es who do so. I fuckin hate &#39;em.


but remember that if he lived in Cuba he wouldn&#39;t have the material wealth that he has where he lives now.

The material wealth that I enjoy in the U&#036; is at the expense of the third world. If my material possessions were all made in America, I wouldn&#39;t have been able to afford them. I would be living like most third worlders live today.


if you give the poor a fish they eat for a day but if you teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime. Instead of giving a handout try giving them a hand up.....

I think you&#39;re under the impression that it&#39;s possible in capitalism to pull oneself out of the position of "have-not". It&#39;s not possible.

A fella can work eight hours a day at any job available to him and still not earn a decent respectable living for himself. In fact, that&#39;s what happens to a vast majority of people. What more do you want people to do? Are they doing the "wrong job"? Somebody has to work in construction and somebody has to collect our garbage. Why can&#39;t they be the "haves"?

Because it&#39;s impossible.

To acquire capital, one must have capital.

Since you don&#39;t know a single think about communism, try reading the Communist Manifesto (http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html). Then we&#39;ll all be glad to read your musings. Until then, we don&#39;t care what the hell some dumb motherfucker has to say about what her ass-hole gusano husband has told her about Castro’s “crimes” against the capitalist class.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Oh, and you have indeed dodged a vast majority of the arguments presented to you. Look back at the posts directed to you. You&#39;ve addressed almost nothing of what was presented against your shit views.

Here&#39;s one post I&#39;d really like to see you attempt to rufute:

Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 11:22 PM
This is directed at everyone.....all I seem to see at this sight is misinformation about Cuba and it&#39;s political system......from people who have spent very little or no time there.......and are only quoting from books or statistics......
Sparky, Que bola?

I&#39;ve been there three times 8 months or so alltogether. I stayed on floors, in cheap hotels,and in a penthouse at the Nacional. From Santiago to Havana via Holguin, Santa Clara, Cienfuegos, Trinidad.. It has fine Weather, Women, Rum, Cigars, Music and..
TOTAL EQUALITY&#33;

90% of those who leave are white males decendant from the former ruling class..Or criminals.. Escoria.. End of chat..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 03:21 AM

Yes it does.
It&#39;s cowardly to leave your country because it doesn&#39;t pander to your personal corrupt class interests. And I hate the coward traitor gusano *****es who do so. I fuckin hate &#39;em.



The material wealth that I enjoy in the U&#036; is at the expense of the third world. If my material possessions were all made in America, I wouldn&#39;t have been able to afford them. I would be living like most third worlders live today.



I think you&#39;re under the impression that it&#39;s possible in capitalism to pull oneself out of the position of "have-not". It&#39;s not possible.

A fella can work eight hours a day at any job available to him and still not earn a decent respectable living for himself. In fact, that&#39;s what happens to a vast majority of people. What more do you want people to do? Are they doing the "wrong job"? Somebody has to work in construction and somebody has to collect our garbage. Why can&#39;t they be the "haves"?

Because it&#39;s impossible.

To acquire capital, one must have capital.

Since you don&#39;t know a single think about communism, try reading the Communist Manifesto (http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html). Then we&#39;ll all be glad to read your musings. Until then, we don&#39;t care what the hell some dumb motherfucker has to say about what her ass-hole gusano husband has told her about Castro’s “crimes” against the capitalist class.
Firstly, my husband left Cuba not because of economics but because most married people tend to prefer to live under the same roof, makes like a little easier. If people didn&#39;t leave their countries for a better life then Canada and the US of A would never have been built. Canada has many people living here from all over the world.....does that make them traitors to your cause???

I&#39;d like to know what you define as a respectable living.....construction workers here in Canada make a good living as do garbage collectors......but let&#39;s face it I&#39;m not going to pay an uneducated person who serves you coffee the same as I&#39;m paying a doctor to practice medicine.

I&#39;m not looking to be rich nor is my husband since being rich does not ensure happiness.....we&#39;re happy, we have a roof over our heads, food in our stomachs and jobs. I&#39;ve worked hard to get to where I am and I&#39;m far from rich.....I&#39;m just your average middle class person and I&#39;ve never expected anything to be handed to me as I have no problem with hard work.


So are all your material possessions made in the third world?? Most of mine are made right here in Canada as I believe in supporting the local economy....and if you lived in Cuba you wouldn&#39;t have any of those material possessions you seem to prize so much......

You really are a hateful little boy......if someone disagrees with you you just take your toys and go home.....so typically American......no one asked you to agree but I am entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not. OOPS I forgot....a commie like you doesn&#39;t believe in free speech.

On a final note.....it&#39;s not just my husbands opinion on Castro&#39;s crimes against his people.....Amnesty International has way more information on that......

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 10:53 AM
Sparky, Que bola?

I&#39;ve been there three times 8 months or so alltogether. I stayed on floors, in cheap hotels,and in a penthouse at the Nacional. From Santiago to Havana via Holguin, Santa Clara, Cienfuegos, Trinidad.. It has fine Weather, Women, Rum, Cigars, Music and..
TOTAL EQUALITY&#33;

90% of those who leave are white males decendant from the former ruling class..Or criminals.. Escoria.. End of chat..
Total equality??? Ya right.....you&#39;re so full of shit your eyes are brown. I&#39;d like to know what yardstick you&#39;re measuring the immigration numbers with as I know many many cuban women that have left Cuba. My husband isn&#39;t white nor is he a criminal so he doesn&#39;t fit into your numbers either......

[DaCuBaN]

Canada has many people living here from all over the world.....does that make them traitors to your cause???

It makes them "traitors" to their respective countries, yes - if pride or loyalty to one&#39;s nation floats your boat.


.you&#39;re so full of shit your eyes are brown.

:o


I know many many cuban women that have left Cuba

Yes.... I would surmise there to be equal numbers of women to men leaving. That&#39;s equality too; just because it&#39;s a negative doesn&#39;t change the nature of it.


My husband isn&#39;t white nor is he a criminal so he doesn&#39;t fit into your numbers either......

It&#39;s a crime to get "rich" in Cuba, if that helps. As to the colour of his skin? I guess it depends on your "yardstick" as you say; Many people of "latin" american origins are a pale colour, and are referred to as white or black dependant on the skin colour of the one who&#39;s speaking.

In short, it&#39;s a moot point.


I&#39;d like to know what you define as a respectable living.....construction workers here in Canada make a good living as do garbage collectors......but let&#39;s face it I&#39;m not going to pay an uneducated person who serves you coffee the same as I&#39;m paying a doctor to practice medicine.


That&#39;s the difference between Canada and Cuba - the gap between the best and worst off in society is far less in the latter over the former. Of course, given that anyone can get a PhD in Cuba without paying out a penny, it does somewhat move the goalposts.

Don&#39;t you agree?


I&#39;m not looking to be rich nor is my husband since being rich does not ensure happiness.....we&#39;re happy, we have a roof over our heads, food in our stomachs and jobs. I&#39;ve worked hard to get to where I am and I&#39;m far from rich.....I&#39;m just your average middle class person and I&#39;ve never expected anything to be handed to me as I have no problem with hard work.

Arguably, this is the principle tenet of socialism: The acceptance that hard work is absolutely necessary for not only your survival, but for the betterment of all around you. I do moderately well in my chosen profession as well, and I "want" of nothing materially - the question is, how can you sleep at night knowing that there are those that irregardless of how much effort they apply, will never ever achieve even a small percentage of what you have. Are you or I "better" than them? Are we more "deserving" than them?


On a final note.....it&#39;s not just my husbands opinion on Castro&#39;s crimes against his people.....Amnesty International has way more information on that......

Change of tone? I thought we were attacking Cuban society, not merely the figurehead - and one that cannot have long remaining on this earth, at that; but of course, Cuba has one of the best mortality rates in the world - outstripping the US, UK, and quite probably many other nations.

Don&#39;t take my word for it of course, the CIA admits this fact quite freely - and I&#39;m sure you&#39;d be willing to admit that the US does have an "agenda" on Cuba, other than merely the "good of the Cuban people".

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 12:52 PM

It makes them "traitors" to their respective countries, yes - if pride or loyalty to one&#39;s nation floats your boat.



:o



Yes.... I would surmise there to be equal numbers of women to men leaving. That&#39;s equality too; just because it&#39;s a negative doesn&#39;t change the nature of it.





It&#39;s a crime to get "rich" in Cuba, if that helps. As to the colour of his skin? I guess it depends on your "yardstick" as you say; Many people of "latin" american origins are a pale colour, and are referred to as white or black dependant on the skin colour of the one who&#39;s speaking.

In short, it&#39;s a moot point.



That&#39;s the difference between Canada and Cuba - the gap between the best and worst off in society is far less in the latter over the former. Of course, given that anyone can get a PhD in Cuba without paying out a penny, it does somewhat move the goalposts.

Don&#39;t you agree?



Arguably, this is the principle tenet of socialism: The acceptance that hard work is absolutely necessary for not only your survival, but for the betterment of all around you. I do moderately well in my chosen profession as well, and I "want" of nothing materially - the question is, how can you sleep at night knowing that there are those that irregardless of how much effort they apply, will never ever achieve even a small percentage of what you have. Are you or I "better" than them? Are we more "deserving" than them?



Change of tone? I thought we were attacking Cuban society, not merely the figurehead - and one that cannot have long remaining on this earth, at that; but of course, Cuba has one of the best mortality rates in the world - outstripping the US, UK, and quite probably many other nations.

Don&#39;t take my word for it of course, the CIA admits this fact quite freely - and I&#39;m sure you&#39;d be willing to admit that the US does have an "agenda" on Cuba, other than merely the "good of the Cuban people".
Who said anything about the numbers of men to women leaving Cuba were equal??? I sure didn&#39;t......

I was replying to something Danton said about 90% of the people leaving Cuba were white male decendants from the previous regime......and that isn&#39;t true. I can tell the difference between white, black and the other skin colours.....my husband is negro. If you can&#39;t tell the difference between the colours then I can recommend you to an excellent Ophthalmologist so you can have your eyes examined and a good pair of glasses prescribed that will help.

I&#39;ve never disputed the fact that one doesn&#39;t pay for their education in Cuba....they don&#39;t pay in cash......but they do pay.....in time......they have to work for the state for a certain amount of time but I don&#39;t have a problem with that. Nothing is ever free in life.....

How can I sleep at night???? Easily.....I can&#39;t change the world.....I am merely one person.....so I&#39;m not going to lose sleep over something that I can&#39;t change. I don&#39;t look at myself as better or more deserving.....I was just lucky enough to be born in a free country.

Cuba has one of the best INFANT MORTALITY rates in the world.....as for mortality rates of the average adult.....it&#39;s about the same as 1st world countries.....they die of the same disease we do......heart disease, cancer etc.

As for the U.S. agenda on Cuba....."DUH" no shit.....everyone knows that.....please don&#39;t be patronizing....it doesn&#39;t become you.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by sparky44
If it was this utopia that you think it is, people wouldn&#39;t be leaving like they do.

No one has ever said that it&#39;s "utopia"...it&#39;s just the best poor country in the world to live in.

People in every poor country try to get into a richer country so they can live better...what&#39;s so surprising about that?

This morning, a Cuban dance troupe performing in Las Vegas decided to defect to the United States (40 out of 43). They probably learned what kind of money they could make in the U.S., compared that with the money they make in Cuba...and, hey, no contest.


Oppression does occur on a regular basis there....don&#39;t fool yourself into thinking that it doesn&#39;t...remember Castro only tells the world what he wants them to hear....the fairy tales....not the horror stories.

Perhaps it does...I can only speak with authority about the oppression that occurs in the United States on a daily basis. If you&#39;re a regular visitor to this forum, you know that I and others have started many threads on the subject.

Of course, it&#39;s said that Canada is "not as bad"...and perhaps there&#39;s some truth to that. But while I have heard "good" stories about Canada, I&#39;ve also heard "bad" stories too.

As I think you agreed, if I wanted to know what Canada was really like, I&#39;d have to go and live there for a year or two.


And by the way.....there will always be poverty.....it&#39;s been with us since the beginning of time......even Jesus said there will be poor always.....

I rather think this gets to the heart of the matter.

The premise of Castro&#39;s revolution (and of socialist, communist and anarchist movements of all shades) is precisely the opposite of your assertion. "Jesus" to the contrary notwithstanding, we all unconditionally reject the proposition that "there will always be poverty".

In fact, we think such an idea is as clear a case of "special pleading" as can be found anywhere -- the wealthy defend this proposition because their wealth depends on it.

For if there were no poor...then there&#39;d also be no rich.


...if you think that you can change the world then go ahead....and I&#39;ll watch as you fall on your face.

Sounds like you rather like the world as it is...which means you must have found a pretty comfortable spot in it.

As to "falling on our faces", well, that&#39;s happened many times. Changing the world is hard.

But it&#39;s been done...otherwise you might still be a serf or even a slave.

What has been done can be done again.


...if you give the poor a fish they eat for a day but if you teach them to fish, they eat for a lifetime.

:lol: It&#39;s been a while since I heard that one...I think it&#39;s older than I am.

Reason being that you can&#39;t eat most fresh-water fish in North America...they&#39;re full of mercury, pcbs, and who knows what else. On the high seas, most fish are caught by "floating factories" which, if I&#39;m not mistaken, do everything to the fish except can them.

"Teach a man to fish" and you&#39;ll poison the poor bastard.


And if you think there is no unemployment in Cuba then you are truly blind...

Well, my old eyes are not what they once were...but I can&#39;t remember anyone criticizing Cuba for unemployment before. Indeed, I&#39;ve heard that some have two or even three jobs there.

What are the structural dimensions of unemployment in Cuba? Who "can&#39;t find work" and why?


Firstly, my husband left Cuba not because of economics but because most married people tend to prefer to live under the same roof, makes like a little easier.

This would imply an unusually severe housing shortage in Cuba...and that&#39;s certainly "economics".


...but let&#39;s face it I&#39;m not going to pay an uneducated person who serves you coffee the same as I&#39;m paying a doctor to practice medicine.

And why not, pray tell? That is, on what ethical grounds do you justify the gap between a doctor&#39;s compensation and that of "an uneducated person"?

Capitalists have an economic justification for this inequity...is that your argument as well?


I&#39;m just your average middle class person and I&#39;ve never expected anything to be handed to me as I have no problem with hard work.

No, you don&#39;t sound like an "average middle class person" -- you sound like a worker who rather desperately wants to think of herself as "middle class".

If you want to be genuinely "middle class", then you must start your own business and be successful at it.

If you and your husband work for others, then you&#39;re working class...no matter how many times the dummyvision tells you otherwise.


I was just lucky enough to be born in a free country.

No, you were lucky enough to be born in a rich country.

Only in the capitalist paradigm is wealth always conflated with freedom.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 07:21 PM
And if you think there is no unemployment in Cuba they you are truly blind.....and a jack ass.
What part of "I see Cuba as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist" did you not understand?


Didn&#39;t dodge anything.....it&#39;s just reality and you need to face it....
Prove that poverty existed in primitive communism. Assuming you even knew that primitive communism ever existed. And please elaborate on why my views on Cuba are "creepy", which you refused to do (i.e. "dodged").

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Firstly, my husband left Cuba not because of economics but because most married people tend to prefer to live under the same roof, makes like a little easier. If people didn&#39;t leave their countries for a better life then Canada and the US of A would never have been built. Canada has many people living here from all over the world.....does that make them traitors to your cause???

It&#39;s certainly understandable to want to live with your spouse, but he&#39;s opposed to socialism and I hate him anyway.

Most Canadians are descendants from Europe. To betray some shitty European capitalist nations is nothing to be ashamed of.


Canada has many people living here from all over the world.....does that make them traitors to your cause???

Let&#39;s not be fucking dumbass shit-for-brains ass-holes, now, Sparky. Why would you say that to leave France or England for the new world is an act of betrayal to communism. Tell me how exactly.


I&#39;d like to know what you define as a respectable living.....construction workers here in Canada make a good living as do garbage collectors......but let&#39;s face it I&#39;m not going to pay an uneducated person who serves you coffee the same as I&#39;m paying a doctor to practice medicine.

You said that there are "haves" and "have-nots". And that the "have-nots" benefit from "being taught how to fish". I said that whether or not they know "how to fish", they will still be a "have-not". No matter how much work they do.

And garbage collectors are necessary. Why can&#39;t a garbage collector be a "have". I reckon that any garbage collector does more work any given day than Bill Gates does in a week.


I&#39;m not looking to be rich nor is my husband since being rich does not ensure happiness.....we&#39;re happy, we have a roof over our heads, food in our stomachs and jobs. I&#39;ve worked hard to get to where I am and I&#39;m far from rich.....I&#39;m just your average middle class person and I&#39;ve never expected anything to be handed to me as I have no problem with hard work.

In capitalism, wealth ensures freedom. I guess you don&#39;t need that to be happy, though, do ya?

I&#39;m glad you enjoy hard work, but are you aware that they&#39;re ripping you off? Nothing has been handed to you. Everything&#39;s just been taken away from you, you just don&#39;t know it, because you&#39;re too busy feeling sorry for the "poor" Cubans.


So are all your material possessions made in the third world?? Most of mine are made right here in Canada as I believe in supporting the local economy....and if you lived in Cuba you wouldn&#39;t have any of those material possessions you seem to prize so much......

Putting words in my mouth, are we? Typical shithead fuckwad capitalist tactic.


You really are a hateful little boy......if someone disagrees with you you just take your toys and go home.....so typically American......no one asked you to agree but I am entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not. OOPS I forgot....a commie like you doesn&#39;t believe in free speech.

Once again, you&#39;re putting words in my mouth. Not surprisingly, either. Could I really expect more from a mediocre simpleton under intimidation from these radical pinko ideas? No.

[EneME]

Originally posted by sparky44+Nov 15 2004, 12:29 PM--> (sparky44 @ Nov 15 2004, 12:29 PM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 10:53 AM
Sparky, Que bola?

I&#39;ve been there three times 8 months or so alltogether. I stayed on floors, in cheap hotels,and in a penthouse at the Nacional. From Santiago to Havana via Holguin, Santa Clara, Cienfuegos, Trinidad.. It has fine Weather, Women, Rum, Cigars, Music and..
TOTAL EQUALITY&#33;

90% of those who leave are white males decendant from the former ruling class..Or criminals.. Escoria.. End of chat..
Total equality??? Ya right.....you&#39;re so full of shit your eyes are brown. I&#39;d like to know what yardstick you&#39;re measuring the immigration numbers with as I know many many cuban women that have left Cuba. My husband isn&#39;t white nor is he a criminal so he doesn&#39;t fit into your numbers either...... [/b]
Just out of curiosity... what is the point of asking this question? He answers your question, without being condescending or insulting, and you fucking bite his head off. Usually when one asks a question, it is to LISTEN to an answer or FIND OUT about someone else&#39;s experiences...not to blindly insult someone just because they didn&#39;t give you the answers you wanted. So, are you asking this question to lure ppl in here to insult them in return? Is this your form of "debate"?

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Sparky, you are quite an angry woman.

A couple of things I would like to point out:

1st, "negro" is not a color, unless you are speaking Spanish. It is a derogatory term, and it suprises me to no end that you say your husband is black, yet use the term "negro."

2nd, Both I and Red zeppelin eagerly await your answer to this: "Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that."


3rd, you seem to have started by calling Red Zeppelin an "old geiser" and are now calling him a "hateful little boy" Which is it?

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 03:25 AM
Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that.
That would explain why Ethiopia is a worker&#39;s paradise and Zimbabwe is overflowing with food.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 12:52 PM
It&#39;s a crime to get "rich" in Cuba, if that helps.
What&#39;s the definition of "rich" ? How much does one have to make before one becomes "rich" ? If you can&#39;t answer, it&#39;s a safe bet that Castro can&#39;t either. It is another silly non-objective law.


1st, "negro" is not a color, unless you are speaking Spanish. It is a derogatory term, and it suprises me to no end that you say your husband is black, yet use the term "negro."

"Nigger" is a derogatory term. "Wog" is a derogatory term. "Negro" denotes a race of people, just like "caucasian" and "mongoloid". It&#39;s hardly derogatory. I know you people love pretending that everyone who opposes you is racist, but please don&#39;t go overboard.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 11:10 PM
I&#39;m glad you enjoy hard work, but are you aware that they&#39;re ripping you off? Nothing has been handed to you. Everything&#39;s just been taken away from you, you just don&#39;t know it, because you&#39;re too busy feeling sorry for the "poor" Cubans.
Explain what is being taken away and how.

[DaCuBaN]

What&#39;s the definition of "rich" ? How much does one have to make before one becomes "rich" ? If you can&#39;t answer, it&#39;s a safe bet that Castro can&#39;t either. It is another silly non-objective law.

My personal definition? More than twice as affluent as your neighbour. As such, Cuba doesn&#39;t uphold it&#39;s "law" in my book. However, a dictionary would normally provide you with an adequate definition, I&#39;m sure:


Synonyms: rich, affluent, flush, loaded, moneyed, wealthy
These adjectives mean having an abundant supply of money, property, or possessions of value: a rich executive; an affluent banker; a speculator flush with cash; not merely rich but loaded; moneyed heirs; wealthy corporations.
Antonyms: poor

This is all aside from the point anyway - I used this to illustrate the ease with which one can become a "criminal" and be forced to flee the country - if you wish to accumulate wealth, you&#39;ve got little choice to run.

It&#39;s this that it comes down to all the time: If you&#39;re not selfish (which I assume castro is, else he&#39;d have stepped aside a long time ago embargo or not) you have nothing to fear of real socialism.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

That would explain why Ethiopia is a worker&#39;s paradise and Zimbabwe is overflowing with food.

Neither of those are socialist.

And for every failed example of socialism there are hundreds of others for capitalism.


Explain what is being taken away and how.

The products of her labor and her political autonomy.
But I wouldn&#39;t expect you to really care about those.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+Nov 16 2004, 03:06 PM--> (Professor Moneybags @ Nov 16 2004, 03:06 PM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 03:25 AM
Despite countless efforts to end poverty in the third world, the only one that has succeeded even remotely is socialism. The only goddamn one. Explain that.
That would explain why Ethiopia is a worker&#39;s paradise and Zimbabwe is overflowing with food. [/b]
put the crack pipe down

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 16 2004, 08:13 AM
"Nigger" is a derogatory term. "Wog" is a derogatory term. "Negro" denotes a race of people, just like "caucasian" and "mongoloid". It&#39;s hardly derogatory. I know you people love pretending that everyone who opposes you is racist, but please don&#39;t go overboard.
Communists like to pretend that everyone who opposes us is racist? That&#39;s news to me. And yes, Negro is a derogatory term. If you do not believe me, why not approach a couple of black people in your community and call them negroes? In fact, will a member of these forums who is Blakc please come forward and tell us if "negro" is something you like being called?

And btw, to the admin who came up with Moneybag&#39;s forum title, you really deserve a cookie or something, because it&#39;s hilarious.

EDIT: Wait, forget it moneybags, after that post on Ethiopia, I have sincere doubts that it would be possible to have an intelligent discussion with you. It&#39;s always nice when the hard work of disproving someone&#39;s ideas and opinions is avoided by they themselves saying something so incredibly stupid that it prevents them from being taken seriously in any other issue.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 08:26 PM
And for every failed example of socialism there are hundreds of others for capitalism.


Such as where ?


The products of her labor and her political autonomy.
But I wouldn&#39;t expect you to really care about those.

The products of her labour were exchanged for money as part of a contractual agreement. They were not stolen.

I have no idea what "political autonomy" is supposed to be. If you mean independence, then I fail to see how one can possibly achieve this in socialism.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:10 PM
put the crack pipe down
Mugabe is a communist. He&#39;s taking back the land from the bourgeiose crackers and giving it to the proletarian natives to share.

Isn&#39;t this what you wanted ?

[Professor Moneybags]

Communists like to pretend that everyone who opposes us is racist? That&#39;s news to me.

Not to me it isn&#39;t.


And yes, Negro is a derogatory term. If you do not believe me, why not approach a couple of black people in your community and call them negroes?

That is the correct name for a black person. It is not a word commonly used, but then I don&#39;t go around calling people "caucasian" either. Is that term derogatory ?


It&#39;s always nice when the hard work of disproving someone&#39;s ideas and opinions is avoided by they themselves saying something so incredibly stupid that it prevents them from being taken seriously in any other issue.

In other words, you&#39;re full of S H 1 T and unable to debate. Thanks, but I already knew.

[RedAnarchist]

The correct term for a black person is HUMAN.
The correct term for a white person is HUMAN.
The correct term for a brown person is HUMAN.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Such as where ?

The entire third world. That&#39;s about 80% of the world population.


The products of her labour were exchanged for money as part of a contractual agreement. They were not stolen.

The products of her labor are worth more than what she received for the labor that she contributed. Someone else keeps the rest. That’s stealing to me.


I have no idea what "political autonomy" is supposed to be. If you mean independence, then I fail to see how one can possibly achieve this in socialism.

I precisely mean independence.
In capitalism, people are subject to the will of the oligarchs and do not enjoy the freedom to have political influence over their own society and themselves.


Mugabe is a communist. He&#39;s taking back the land from the bourgeiose crackers and giving it to the proletarian natives to share.

Lie.

[Subversive Pessimist]

If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist


Why do you have such feelings?

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 09:34 PM

If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist


Why do you have such feelings?
Yeah it is a bit of a harsh criticism, but it&#39;s not really like they have a choice.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+Nov 17 2004, 02:12 PM--> (Professor Moneybags @ Nov 17 2004, 02:12 PM)
[email protected] 16 2004, 09:10 PM
put the crack pipe down
Mugabe is a communist. He&#39;s taking back the land from the bourgeiose crackers and giving it to the proletarian natives to share.

Isn&#39;t this what you wanted ? [/b]
Yeah ethnic elitism is really what I&#39;m all about. :rolleyes:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;Capitalist
And btw, to the admin who came up with Moneybag&#39;s forum title, you really deserve a cookie or something, because it&#39;s hilarious.

Thank you. :D

I believe he currently teaches Virtues of Selfishness 101 at Ayn Rand University (Hoggville, South Carolina).

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;Capitalist+Nov 17 2004, 03:12 AM--> (Anti-Capitalist @ Nov 17 2004, 03:12 AM)
Professor [email protected] 16 2004, 08:13 AM
"Nigger" is a derogatory term. "Wog" is a derogatory term. "Negro" denotes a race of people, just like "caucasian" and "mongoloid". It&#39;s hardly derogatory. I know you people love pretending that everyone who opposes you is racist, but please don&#39;t go overboard.
Communists like to pretend that everyone who opposes us is racist? That&#39;s news to me. And yes, Negro is a derogatory term. If you do not believe me, why not approach a couple of black people in your community and call them negroes? In fact, will a member of these forums who is Blakc please come forward and tell us if "negro" is something you like being called? [/b]
No way. I would not like being called that. To me - it is a derogetory term.

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 17 2004, 07:16 AM

Communists like to pretend that everyone who opposes us is racist? That&#39;s news to me.

Not to me it isn&#39;t.


And yes, Negro is a derogatory term. If you do not believe me, why not approach a couple of black people in your community and call them negroes?

That is the correct name for a black person. It is not a word commonly used, but then I don&#39;t go around calling people "caucasian" either. Is that term derogatory ?


It&#39;s always nice when the hard work of disproving someone&#39;s ideas and opinions is avoided by they themselves saying something so incredibly stupid that it prevents them from being taken seriously in any other issue.

In other words, you&#39;re full of S H 1 T and unable to debate. Thanks, but I already knew.
First, I don&#39;t know what dipshits you hang around that call themselves communists say, but it is not a common "tactic" of leftists. Secondly, what country do you live in? I also love that despite the fact you seem to loathe all of us in the most extreme way, you apparently keep coming back.

oh, and finally, don&#39;t say "S H 1 T", just say shit. We&#39;re all older than 10 here.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Not to side with the capitalist, but in my experience "negro" is not a derrogatory term.
However, dictionary.com lists the word as being "often offensive".
link (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=negro)

[synthesis]

"Negro" is simply outdated. It&#39;s an obsolete term, like Mongoloid. The issue is complicated by the fact that the outdated term is associated with times when black people were enslaved, discriminated against, and/or segregated. Thus, it can carry offensive connotations.

There&#39;s not much to it, guys.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 12:29 PM
Total equality??? Ya right.....you&#39;re so full of shit your eyes are brown.
Well, yes my eyes are brown.. Is there something wrong with that?

It is you my dear who is full of shit...

My numbers are taken directly from Cuban intelligence - the only trusted source on this matter. As a man of mixed race I feel totally at home under the Cuban sun - It is a mixed nation, African, Aboriginal and Spanish - these were three very distinct classes under Batista&#39;s violent and heinous rule, when grubby little yanks orgied on rum, taboo sex and gambling. Now there is more intergration and racial harmony than in any other country on this planet&#33; And I live in a very cosmopolitan city...

Furthermore, Women are free and equal, the treatment of homosexuals is improving radicaly and the disabled and elderly are tenderly cared for and respected. It&#39;s fine for you to come on here and lash out on behalf of your husband - where is he btw? Cat got his tounge? Or does he realize that the picture isn&#39;t as black & white as you paint it and deep down he knows his motives for abandoning Cuba are greedy, selfish and above all fucking dumb&#33;

Escoria..

[LSD]

"negro"

The Oxford English Dictionary:
"The term Negro remained the standard designation throughout the seventeenth to nineteenth centuries, and was still used as a standard designation, preferred by prominent black American campaigners such as W. E. B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington, until the middle years of the 20th century. With the rise of the Black Power movement in the 1960s, the designation black was reclaimed as an expression of racial pride and, since then, the term Negro (together with related terms such as Negress) has fallen from favour and is now typically regarded as out of date or even offensive in both British and American English. Negro is still, however, used in positive contexts as part of the names of certain organizations, particularly the United Negro College Fund, and in historical context, with reference to baseball&#39;s Negro Leagues."

So some people consider it offensive, to others it&#39;s merely "out of date". It is certainly not, however, the "correct name for a black person".


...so how about we just don&#39;t use it?

[Danton]

In Spanish speaking countries it&#39;s perfectly acceptable meaning as it does simply - Black...

[LSD]

In Spanish speaking countries it&#39;s perfectly acceptable meaning as it does simply - Black...

That&#39;s fine, but since many people find it offensive in english, there&#39;s no reason not to refrain from using it in english.

[Danton]

Absolutley, I agree but to put it into context there are far more derrogatory expressions.. Those who say Negro or Coloured are usually ignorant rather than malicious...

Still, be careful about how pro-Black rights you appear - these fucking Wolves will jump on you for it and restrict your ass..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Danton+Nov 18 2004, 07:49 AM--> (Danton @ Nov 18 2004, 07:49 AM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 12:29 PM
Total equality??? Ya right.....you&#39;re so full of shit your eyes are brown.
Well, yes my eyes are brown.. Is there something wrong with that?

It is you my dear who is full of shit...

My numbers are taken directly from Cuban intelligence - the only trusted source on this matter. As a man of mixed race I feel totally at home under the Cuban sun - It is a mixed nation, African, Aboriginal and Spanish - these were three very distinct classes under Batista&#39;s violent and heinous rule, when grubby little yanks orgied on rum, taboo sex and gambling. Now there is more intergration and racial harmony than in any other country on this planet&#33; And I live in a very cosmopolitan city...

Furthermore, Women are free and equal, the treatment of homosexuals is improving radicaly and the disabled and elderly are tenderly cared for and respected. It&#39;s fine for you to come on here and lash out on behalf of your husband - where is he btw? Cat got his tounge? Or does he realize that the picture isn&#39;t as black & white as you paint it and deep down he knows his motives for abandoning Cuba are greedy, selfish and above all fucking dumb&#33;

Escoria.. [/b]
Absolutely nothing wrong with brown eyes unless they&#39;re brown from being full of shit.....

So you believe what Cuban Intelligence tells you eh?? Then I have oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.....do you want it???? Fidel only tells the world what he wants them to know. He told his people that only Cuba had socialized medicine and when my husband and other Cubans I know got here they were shocked that we had it to....they said that they were told that only Cuba had it.

The sex trade is also flourishing in Cuba as well.....I&#39;m sure you&#39;ve heard of the sex tourist.....and it&#39;s the Cuban that is most likely to go to jail unless the girl is underage.....

Racism is alive and well in Cuba.....look in the cane fields and you&#39;ll see black people working them then look at the resorts and you&#39;ll see white people working there. There may not be the racism there that is seen in the US but you can&#39;t compare the 2 countries.....Homosexuality is still very much in the closet in Cuba as they would be forced from good jobs (if they had a good job) they are discriminated against regularly and are not given the good jobs if it is know that they are homosexual. Sure there is equality there if you mean everyone is treated like shit as being equal. Have you looked at domestic abuse there??? The woman sure isn&#39;t treated equal there.....the law takes the mans side in those cases unless it is done in public in front of witnesses. So why don&#39;t you tell me where the equality is.

I don&#39;t come on here to lash out on behalf of my husband.....who by the way is right here.....laughing at what you guys write about Cuba seeing as you&#39;ve never lived there and he has......he didn&#39;t abandon Cuba at all he got married but it happened to be to a foreigner.....as he would say....you can&#39;t help who you fall in love with. There&#39;s nothing greedy, selfish or dumb about that.....I couldn&#39;t live in Cuba....I wouldn&#39;t have a job there, don&#39;t want to live on rice and beans twice daily, nor have to scald milk in order to make it drinkable, boil water to make it safe to drink.....need I say more???

[DaCuBaN]

Still, be careful about how pro-Black rights you appear - these fucking Wolves will jump on you for it and restrict your ass..

Black supremacy is not a viable replacement for white supremacy.

[komon]

Still, be careful about how pro-Black rights you appear - these fucking Wolves will jump on you for it and restrict your ass..


miami yes but not cuba komon <_<[



need I say more???

love :)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Sparky, why don&#39;t you share with us your sources?
We&#39;re not gonna believe your bullshit stories that you heard from your dumbfuck husband&#39;s formerly wealthy Batista fascist sympathizer family.


I wouldn&#39;t have a job there, don&#39;t want to live on rice and beans twice daily, nor have to scald milk in order to make it drinkable, boil water to make it safe to drink.....need I say more???

Why the fuck do you constantly keep using Cuba&#39;s sub-first world standard of living as some sort of argument against socialism. Fucking stop it, because it makes absolutely no sense. You said it yourself that Cuba cannot be compared to the United States.

The standard of living in Cuba is hugely better than that of any other third world country anywhere on earth. If you want to argue about that, good fuckin luck, you&#39;ll need it. But don&#39;t try to compare it to the first world.

I can show you dozens of capitalist third world countries that are in deeper shit than any socialist country has ever been. Try using some fucking logic next time.

[The New State]

Why the fuck do you constantly keep using Cuba&#39;s sub-first world standard of living as some sort of argument against socialism. Fucking stop it, because it makes absolutely no sense. You said it yourself that Cuba cannot be compared to the United States.

But it can be compared to the US. There is no reason to place each country on separate plains of criticism simply because one has a history of being less wealthy(per capita) than the other.

The fact is, Cuba&#39;s poverty, now, is secured by its socialist economy. Inefficiency alone makes the economy reundant and empoverished - curbing the incentive to create in hopes to distribute wealth evenly among an uneven population.


The standard of living in Cuba is hugely better than that of any other third world country anywhere on earth. If you want to argue about that, good fuckin luck, you&#39;ll need it. But don&#39;t try to compare it to the first world.

1. The Dominican Republic lives in better conditions than Cuba, this is an acceptable comparison

2. Americans live better than Cubans. This is an acceptable comparison, because both exist in the same world, with the same internarional economic conditions. The difference is how each population handles that scarcity. Capitalism(wealth) or socialism(poverty)



I can show you dozens of capitalist third world countries that are in deeper shit than any socialist country has ever been. Try using some fucking logic next time.

YOu call what you just said "logical"?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

1. The Dominican Republic lives in better conditions than Cuba, this is an acceptable comparison

That&#39;s absurd&#33;
People in the Dominican Republic die of preventable disease and starve to death every day. Thousands of people there can&#39;t afford food, don&#39;t have jobs, can&#39;t read, are denied healthcare, education, basic nutrition, political freedom, and economic and social equality. Higher standard of living my ass.

The US may enjoy a higher standard of living yes, but Cuba enjoys a much higher standard of living that say, all of Latin America, all of Africa, and nearly all of Asia. Suck on that.

Socialism has been the only system to ever successfully abolish poverty. The only Latin American country to put their people out of impoverishment was Cuba.

What is and what isn&#39;t a socialist country is disputable, but China, the USSR, and Vietnam all successfully became industrialized, enjoyed an increase in standard of living, and came out of the middle ages due to socialism, even if they resulted in corruption and a return to capitalism.


The fact is, Cuba&#39;s poverty, now, is secured by its socialist economy. Inefficiency alone makes the economy reundant and empoverished - curbing the incentive to create in hopes to distribute wealth evenly among an uneven population.

They are not impoverished. They have food, healthcare, education, and shelter for all citizens. Something that no capitalist nation, first or third world can say for itself.

Their economy may be poor, but they&#39;re still the only Latin American country to have ended poverty. You cannot put a price on that.

And read this article for an idea of how politics work in Cuba.
American vs. Cuban Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html)

And learn how to spell, kid.

[The New State]

That&#39;s absurd&#33;

No it&#39;s not.


People in the Dominican Republic die of preventable disease and starve to death every day. Thousands of people there can&#39;t afford food, don&#39;t have jobs, can&#39;t read, are denied healthcare, education, basic nutrition, political freedom, and economic and social equality. Higher standard of living my ass.

HAHAHAHA, I gladly refute this point with a little anecdote:

while in Santo Domingo, I saw something amazing. Verizon phones. Verizon cell phones. everywhere. I stayed with one of those "impoverished" families you talk about, on Jose Marti street, in a small, very dominican, little house. Their stereosystem ,blasting merengue or bachata most of the day, is far better than the one I own, and they owned two nice cell phones, better than my cheap, broken one.

The BIGGEST problems there were the trash pickup(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which never came, unless enough people got angry enough and went to their HQ. The Electricity(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which flickered on and off all day - we sometimes went without electricity for hours on end. and The Water utilities(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which went off all the time.

I&#39;m not saying they live like kings. Of course they dont&#39; But the exchange rate is going up, and things are improving. I saw McDonalds there. Burger King. So many Burger Kings. Dominicans, opressed prols that they are, like Burgerking. CAPITALISM.IS.WORKING.


The US may enjoy a higher standard of living yes, but Cuba enjoys a much higher standard of living that say, all of Latin America, all of Africa, and nearly all of Asia. Suck on that.

Yea, sure, which is why those lucky Cubans are leaving in droves.


Socialism has been the only system to ever successfully abolish poverty. The only Latin American country to put their people out of impoverishment was Cuba.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


What is and what isn&#39;t a socialist country is disputable, but China, the USSR, and Vietnam all successfully became industrialized, enjoyed an increase in standard of living, and came out of the middle ages due to socialism, even if they resulted in corruption and a return to capitalism.

China and the USSR lost millions in the process, which was already occuring under the tsars.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

HAHAHAHA, I gladly refute this point with a little anecdote:

while in Santo Domingo, I saw something amazing. Verizon phones. Verizon cell phones. everywhere. I stayed with one of those "impoverished" families you talk about, on Jose Marti street, in a small, very dominican, little house. Their stereosystem ,blasting merengue or bachata most of the day, is far better than the one I own, and they owned two nice cell phones, better than my cheap, broken one.

The BIGGEST problems there were the trash pickup(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which never came, unless enough people got angry enough and went to their HQ. The Electricity(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which flickered on and off all day - we sometimes went without electricity for hours on end. and The Water utilities(GOVERNMENT OWNED), which went off all the time.

I&#39;m not saying they live like kings. Of course they dont&#39; But the exchange rate is going up, and things are improving. I saw McDonalds there. Burger King. So many Burger Kings. Dominicans, opressed prols that they are, like Burgerking. CAPITALISM.IS.WORKING.

You saw the wealthiest 5% of their population. I’ve lived in the third world. I am a Latin American. I&#39;m from Brazil, in fact, one of the wealthiest Latin American nations. And only the very wealthiest live like that. Just because some folks can afford McDonald&#39;s and cell phones, doesn&#39;t negate the fact that millions are starving.


Yea, sure, which is why those lucky Cubans are leaving in droves.

And Mexico is capitalist. They have Mc Donald&#39;s and cell phones, and stereos (for people who can afford them), so they’re not leaving in droves, are they? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You make me laugh, you fucking tool&#33;



China and the USSR lost millions in the process, which was already occuring under the tsars.

Millions? Millions fo what? Dollars? What does this have to do with anything?

And you still need to go to school and learn how to fuckin spell, kiddo.

[The New State]

You saw the wealthiest 5% of their population. I’ve lived in the third world.

No, not really. I did see the wealthy during my stay, and I was disgusted. The wealthy youth of the DR are hopelessly engaged in woeship of american culture. I went to a "bourgeois" mall(in the wealthy part of town), and I thought I had been teleported back to the United States.

They even try to immitate American Rap culture, calling one another "niggel"(the &#39;l&#39; sound replaces the &#39;r&#39; sound because, wll, that&#39;s how they pronounce it) without knowing what the word means at all.


I am a Latin American. I&#39;m from Brazil, in fact, one of the wealthiest Latin American nations.

From your rhetoric, I doubt you&#39;re being honest.


And only the very wealthiest live like that.

No, the people I lived with were not wealthy at all. The father was a taxi driver and the mother an operator for verizon.


Just because some folks can afford McDonald&#39;s and cell phones,

Most. Mcdonalds was all over the place. This would not be so if they were selling only to the wealthiest portion of the population.


doesn&#39;t negate the fact that millions are starving.

In Latin America? Give me a break, brother, give me a break.





You make me laugh, you fucking tool&#33;

There is no need for insults.



Millions? Millions fo what? Dollars? What does this have to do with anything?

humans. millions of humans.


And you still need to go to school and learn how to fuckin spell, kiddo.

what did I misspell?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Somebody give this guy a hint&#33;

There is an emerging middle class in Latin America, yes, but a vast majority of the population still lives in utter shit.

Read this, my friend:
even conservative bourgeois sources disagree with you (http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_library/country_profiles/Eco_cou_214.pdf)

I am indeed a Brazilian. But you can believe what you want.


what did I misspell?

opressed?
prols?
dont&#39;?
occuring?
And you failed to put spaces between many words, adding to illegibility of your post.

[The New State]

I see nothing in this report saying there are millions starving in Latin America. And no, you are probably not Brazilian.


hahahaha, "prols" is a word coined by Orwell, friend. It is indeeed spelled correctly.

It is sad that you have to point out typos like forgetting a "p" in oppressed, or putting the apostrophe after the "t" in "don&#39;t" to save your hopelessly emotional, illogical argument.

All of your ad hom attacks have yet to even contruct a rezpektibl straw man argument.

[DaCuBaN]

"prols" is a word coined by Orwell, friend. It is indeeed spelled correctly.

It is "proles", and wasn&#39;t coined by Orwell. He did indeed use it in 1984, but it is merely the abreviation of "proletariat". Didn&#39;t you realise that Orwell was a capitalist hating Socialist, and that those books were in fact in praise of socialism, decrying only the authoritarianism that was apparent only amongst faux-socialist societies at the time of writing?

If he were to write the same book now, you can bet it would turn out a lot more like a Max Barry


No, the people I lived with were not wealthy at all. The father was a taxi driver and the mother an operator for verizon.

Right; so they have access to motorvehicular access, and as the mother works for verizon it is evident why they have access to modern mobile telephony devices.


China and the USSR lost millions in the process, which was already occuring under the tsars.

It also occurs in State-Capitalist China, Putin&#39;s Capitalist Russia, Bush&#39;s Mixed United States, Blair&#39;s Mixed United Kingdom...

...need I go on?

[The New State]

It is "proles", and wasn&#39;t coined by Orwell. He did indeed use it in 1984, but it is merely the abreviation of "proletariat".

I&#39;ve not seen any previous use of the abreviation before Orwell, correct me if I&#39;m wrong.


Right; so they have access to motorvehicular access, and as the mother works for verizon it is evident why they have access to modern mobile telephony devices.

1. No, the Taxi is company owned, they bought an old minivan just recently.

2. Their access to cell phones isn&#39;t solely due to her employment with Verizon. They own two cell phones for their own purposes.


also occurs in State-Capitalist China,


Define State Capitalism.


Putin&#39;s Capitalist Russia,

I didn&#39;t know Putin was starting up the Gulags again.


Bush&#39;s Mixed United States,

oh? Millions of Americans have died because of....faith based charity initiatives?


Blair&#39;s Mixed United Kingdom...

On an island of 50/60 Million people, a couple million dead would certainly make the tabloids, don&#39;t you think?

Could you please provide evidence for your various claims? Thankyou.

[DaCuBaN]

I&#39;ve not seen any previous use of the abreviation before Orwell, correct me if I&#39;m wrong.

It was a common enough term at the time, and was in fact considered somewhat degrading. No idea why, as it&#39;s only an abbreviation.


It also occurs in State-Capitalist China, Putin&#39;s Capitalist Russia, Bush&#39;s Mixed United States, Blair&#39;s Mixed United Kingdom...

...need I go on?

You missed my point; for an ideology to prosper, the elements opposed to it will suffer the ultimate penalty.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You&#39;re thinking of the word "prole", not "prol"

Yes, I am Brazilian. But once again, I don&#39;t care whether or not you believe me.

from that website:

percent of income earned by the poorest 20% of the population: 5.1%
national poverty rate: 20.6%
percent of population living on less than &#036;2 a day: 16%

from this website (http://www.infoplease.com/)

Dominican Republic
unemployment: 15.5%
illiteracy rate: 15%

Cuba
unemployment: 3.2%
illiteracy: 3%

Didn&#39;t you claim that the Dominican Republic enjoyed a higher standard of living? :lol: :lol: :lol:

For statistics about how many people in Latin America dies from starvation, read this article:
http://www.ru.org/21childr.html

It&#39;s hard to find exact figures on how many people die from starvation each year in Latin America, but one statistic in that article is that in Brazil 60% of children die within their first year of life. That&#39;s far more than a million each year. The rest of Latin America is not much better at all.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 02:12 AM
Sparky, why don&#39;t you share with us your sources?

We&#39;re not gonna believe your bullshit stories that you heard from your dumbfuck husband&#39;s formerly wealthy Batista fascist sympathizer family.



I wouldn&#39;t have a job there, don&#39;t want to live on rice and beans twice daily, nor have to scald milk in order to make it drinkable, boil water to make it safe to drink.....need I say more???


Why the fuck do you constantly keep using Cuba&#39;s sub-first world standard of living as some sort of argument against socialism. Fucking stop it, because it makes absolutely no sense. You said it yourself that Cuba cannot be compared to the United States.

The standard of living in Cuba is hugely better than that of any other third world country anywhere on earth. If you want to argue about that, good fuckin luck, you&#39;ll need it. But don&#39;t try to compare it to the first world.

I can show you dozens of capitalist third world countries that are in deeper shit than any socialist country has ever been. Try using some fucking logic next time.
I don&#39;t need stories to tell me what&#39;s going on when I can see it for myself. My husbands family are also not formerly wealthy Batista fascist sympathizers. My sources come from seeing it and experiencing it....yours come from books. If you weren&#39;t so blinded by hate you might see it....so take your fucking head out of your ass and go and look for yourself.

So why did you leave Brazil for the US then....to better yourself.....or to become a hateful little asshole.....

I am not and I repeat NOT using Cuba&#39;s sub first world standards as an argument against socialism....as a matter of fact I&#39;ve never said anything against socialism so don&#39;t put words in my mouth. AND DON&#39;T FUCKING TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU STUPID LITTLE FUCK HEAD....

So why don&#39;t you go and drink the water there.....it won&#39;t be long before you&#39;re sick.....

Standard of living is better???? By who&#39;s standards??? Yours?? Rolling blackouts which can leave people without power for hours.....I&#39;ve seen too many times when the town has had no water.....The standard of living in Cuba may be better than some third world countries but not all....

So show me dozens of capitalist 3rd world countries that are in deeper shit.....show real evidence....not something you got out of a book you stupid little fuck....

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 07:58 PM
Black supremacy is not a viable replacement for white supremacy.
I never said it was fuckface.

Sparky, Your annoying, ever been to Mexico? Ever drank the water there? Ever heard about the hundreds of Mexicano&#39;s crossing the desert every day?

Ever been to Jamaica, Chile, Peru, Ecuador etc..

Cuba, whilst defending herself from imperialst aggression for 40 yeras continues to have far better living standards than these comparable nations now piss off.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 12:34 PM
Sparky, Your annoying, ever been to Mexico? Ever drank the water there? Ever heard about the hundreds of Mexicano&#39;s crossing the desert every day?

Ever been to Jamaica, Chile, Peru, Ecuador etc..

Cuba, whilst defending herself from imperialst aggression for 40 yeras continues to have far better living standards than these comparable nations now piss off.
Yes I&#39;ve been to Mexico.....and no I don&#39;t drink the water.....I&#39;m blonde not stupid........unlike you. If you&#39;d noticed I mentioned Mecicans going to the US in a previous post but because you&#39;re too busy being annoyed by me so much you probably didn&#39;t notice that....

And yes I&#39;ve been to Jamaica...it&#39;s very poor as with the other countries but I never said that they weren&#39;t.

I will not piss off.....I&#39;m here to annoy people like you....

Just remember....When you speak you do so in a way that makes slugs and invertebrates look like Nobel Prize winners.....

:P :D

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Apparently hard evidence, as the stuff I&#39;ve shown isn&#39;t good enough to prove that the standard of living in Cuba is higher than any other third world country.
But I&#39;ll try again.

Cuba
unemployment: 3.2%
illiteracy: 3%
daily caloric consumption per capita: 2833

other third world capitalist countries:
Haiti
unemployment: 65%
illiteracy rate: 65%
daily caloric consumption per capita: 1706

Cambodia
unemployment: 2.5%
illiteracy rate: 65%
daily caloric consumption per capita: 2021

Kenya
unemployment: 40%
illiteracy rate: 31%
daily caloric consumption per capita: 2075

Should I go on?


AND DON&#39;T FUCKING TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU STUPID LITTLE FUCK HEAD....

Am I the hateful one?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Give it up, dear.


So show me dozens of capitalist 3rd world countries that are in deeper shit.....show real evidence....not something you got out of a book you stupid little fuck....

What the fuck are you talking about?
If statistics and sources aren&#39;t enough to convince you, then I&#39;d like to ask you if you&#39;ve been to dozens of third world countries to witness the standard of living yourself, since you seem to be so sure that it&#39;s worst than that of Cuba.

Now go back to watching your soaps, and leave the politics for those of us who know what the fuck&#39;s going on.

[sparky44]

<_<

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:01 PM
If statistics and sources aren&#39;t enough to convince you, then I&#39;d like to ask you if you&#39;ve been to dozens of third world countries to witness the standard of living yourself, since you seem to be so sure that it&#39;s worst than that of Cuba.

Now go back to watching your soaps, and leave the politics for those of us who know what the fuck&#39;s going on.
You&#39;re not making any sense here.....are you one of those illiterate ones from the third world that you&#39;re going on about??? Must be....

I have a life....a real life....you know, family and career....I don&#39;t have the time of day for soaps.....unlike you.

Escuche caguese para inteligencias.....if we left politics up to people like you this world would be in far worse shape then it is now....you hateful little slug...

With your intelligence and attitude the army can neither confirm nor deny the existance of a lobotomized human minesweeper program in the 50&#39;s....

[revolutionindia]

I notice you are now restricted so
Welcome to The Cage

From what little I know of Cuba
I can tell you the social conditions of Cuba are far better than Develped countries
The disparities in incomes of the people is also much lesser

But the economic conditions and future are not the brightest

But one must not forget that economic growth and GDP is not the only measure of development

From what I heard about cuba on this site I can tell you the per capita happiness on Cuba is more than what it is in america
but then it&#39;s what I have heard here

If you are poor you will enjoy a better quality of life in cuba than america
If you are rich you safer in america than in cuba


I have a life....a real life....you know, family and career....I don&#39;t have the time of day for soaps.....unlike you.
you think having a career and family is a real life
Seriously then you really need a life

I always thought we needed a wonder woman on this forum
Sparky sure has the fire for this role
One of these days her posts are gonna cause sparks to fly and before you know it
your monitor&#39;s on fire :D

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The difference between the content of my posts and your posts, sparky dearest, is that mine contain information and rebuttals as well as some petty little insults that get to you more than they should. Your posts, however, are just sarcastic comments that don&#39;t refute anything of what I said.

You claim that Cuba suffers from a standard of living lower that that of other capitalist nations. I show you evidence, yet you just say that it shows nothing.

Why don&#39;t you show me some evidence of some third world countries that are better off that Cuba. I dare you. A single Latin American or African country better off than Cuba. Go ahead. Try doing some research for once in your life.

[The New State]

Please refer to this site for information:


http://lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/asce/

Also, those Cuban economic statistics are terribly skewed - the underemployment rate is much higher in Cuba, and it owes its past [relative]wealth to soviet subsidies, which payed for Cuba&#39;s healthcare system.

[cheka]

So, whens this "proletarian" uprising going to happen?

What a joke...Ignorance reigns on this board, even in this forum.

There will never again be the conditions that existed in 1917 to the latter half of the 20th century that allowed for communist uprisings. Any educated political anylists KNOWS that communism is dead, and while having played a powerful role in the 20th century, is nothing more than History book filler now.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Why should I believe your sources and not the ones where I found those unemployment statistisc?

And what exactly in that site do want me to look at?
It&#39;s a pretty damn big site.

[The New State]

I apologize, I would never want you to actually read a source in depth.

shoudl
statistisc


Why shoudl I believe your sources and the ones where I found those unemployment statistisc?

Why should you believe anything at all?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

So what exactly in that site disproves anything of what I said. Please tell me, because just linking me to a site isn&#39;t a real rebuttal. I can link you to the Communist Manifesto which refutes nearly any claim against communism, but that wouldn&#39;t really be much of an argument, would it?

Sparky, you&#39;re spaming. Better fuckin watch it.

[1949]

"sparky44" still hasn&#39;t explained why my views on Cuba are "creepy".

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

She hasn&#39;t really explained anything at all. I wouldn&#39;t expect a reply from her on anything.

[1949]

ROFL

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 12:22 AM
If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist, and needs a new revolution led by a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist vanguard party to acheive socialism and pave the way to world communism.
This is the part I find creepy.....don&#39;t ever let the great Fidel Castro hear you say that his country isn&#39;t socialist......even if it is a combination of communism/socialism.....

Communism is DEAD.....one day you&#39;ll wake up and realize that but I guess in your warped little mind you think that there is a hope for it......

[1949]

Originally posted by sparky44+Nov 27 2004, 11:41 AM--> (sparky44 @ Nov 27 2004, 11:41 AM)
[email protected] 14 2004, 12:22 AM
If you want to know my personal view of Cuba, I see it as a revisionist, state-capitalist nation that is not and has never been socialist, and needs a new revolution led by a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist vanguard party to acheive socialism and pave the way to world communism.
This is the part I find creepy.....don&#39;t ever let the great Fidel Castro hear you say that his country isn&#39;t socialist......even if it is a combination of communism/socialism..... [/b]
Why should I be afraid of Fidel Castro? He can&#39;t do anything to me while I&#39;m sitting at my computer desk in California.

I&#39;ll let RedZep pick apart your other point, because I&#39;m working on a much larger and more important post for a different thread.

[DaCuBaN]

Communism is DEAD

It never lived&#33; We haven&#39;t even seen a working socialist society, nor a working capitalist society.

Every society on the face of this planet has been some form of mixed economy - from the US to the Soviets, from the UK to to Vietnam, it&#39;s all mixed. I&#39;m sorry that you can&#39;t pigeonhole the world so easily, but that&#39;s life.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

If you&#39;re gonna cry about Cubans&#39; lack of freedom, I suggest you read this article first:

American vs. Cuban Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html)

And besides, the rest of the worlds&#39; lack of economic equality and thus lack of freedom makes Cuba comparatively more free.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 04:34 PM
I notice you are now restricted so
Welcome to The Cage

From what little I know of Cuba
I can tell you the social conditions of Cuba are far better than Develped countries
The disparities in incomes of the people is also much lesser

But the economic conditions and future are not the brightest

But one must not forget that economic growth and GDP is not the only measure of development

From what I heard about cuba on this site I can tell you the per capita happiness on Cuba is more than what it is in america
but then it&#39;s what I have heard here

If you are poor you will enjoy a better quality of life in cuba than america
If you are rich you safer in america than in cuba


I have a life....a real life....you know, family and career....I don&#39;t have the time of day for soaps.....unlike you.
you think having a career and family is a real life
Seriously then you really need a life

I always thought we needed a wonder woman on this forum
Sparky sure has the fire for this role
One of these days her posts are gonna cause sparks to fly and before you know it
your monitor&#39;s on fire :D
I have no problems with being caged....my voice will still be heard. I&#39;ll still be here to irritate the freedom hating communists that try to silence me......I won&#39;t be silenced no matter how hard they try....

Yes and no....The average Cuban makes about 10 dollars a month....not much to live on....as for social conditions....that all depends....not everybody gets the better jobs and working for the Communist party always has it&#39;s perks.....

Prices have gone up about 20% in Cuba since April/May....which makes it harder for the Cubans to afford things.....unless they&#39;re getting money from family in other countries......

Getting a telephone in Cuba is a whole different story....the government only allows a certain amount of phones in a neighbourhood and the neighbourhood has to decide....fair eh??? Seen what the prices are to call Cuba or for Cubans to call outside of Cuba.....Cuba doesn&#39;t want it&#39;s people to keep in touch with the outside world. Please don&#39;t get me started on the human rights issues in that country....I could go on for pages......

I wouldn&#39;t be so sure about the per capita happiness is better in Cuba...it all depends on who you speak to......the young adults aren&#39;t as happy as some would believe.....and most want to get off of the island because of the poverty and political conditions. There&#39;s far more panhandling in Havana now.....from what I saw the last time I was there with my husband......it never used to be that way.

It is quite possible that you might live a better quality life if you live in Cuba then in America and I say might because that isn&#39;t necessarily the case.....some of the poorest in Cuba live in shacks with no running water/toilets/electricity.....

Whether you&#39;re rich or poor in America.....if someone wants to kill you they will.....

I have more of a life then family and career....that was just an example..... :P :P

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I&#39;ll still be here to irritate the freedom hating communists that try to silence me......I won&#39;t be silenced no matter how hard they try....

I&#39;d love to see you try and explain why exactly condoning economic equality makes us haters of freedom. You are the one who hates freedom. You advocate inequality, hierarchy, subjugation, and oppression. Thus, a lack of freedom.


Yes and no....The average Cuban makes about 10 dollars a month....not much to live on....as for social conditions....that all depends....not everybody gets the better jobs and working for the Communist party always has it&#39;s perks.....

Prices have gone up about 20% in Cuba since April/May....which makes it harder for the Cubans to afford things.....unless they&#39;re getting money from family in other countries......

Getting a telephone in Cuba is a whole different story....the government only allows a certain amount of phones in a neighbourhood and the neighbourhood has to decide....fair eh??? Seen what the prices are to call Cuba or for Cubans to call outside of Cuba.....Cuba doesn&#39;t want it&#39;s people to keep in touch with the outside world. Please don&#39;t get me started on the human rights issues in that country....I could go on for pages......

I wouldn&#39;t be so sure about the per capita happiness is better in Cuba...it all depends on who you speak to......the young adults aren&#39;t as happy as some would believe.....and most want to get off of the island because of the poverty and political conditions. There&#39;s far more panhandling in Havana now.....from what I saw the last time I was there with my husband......it never used to be that way.

It is quite possible that you might live a better quality life if you live in Cuba then in America and I say might because that isn&#39;t necessarily the case.....some of the poorest in Cuba live in shacks with no running water/toilets/electricity.....

You can go ahead and elaborate for a million pages if want on how terrible the conditions are in Cuba, because we still know that removing a few from the top is a small price to pay for the abolition of poverty, illiteracy, and starvation.


per capita happiness

What the fuck is per capita happiness? Learn how to use the English language. I know that English is your first language, and there&#39;s no reason for you write such fucking dumbass moronic shit.

Is per capita happiness the total happiness of a nation or region divided by the number of inhabitants of that nation or region? :lol: :lol: :lol:

How do you measure happiness? Happy units? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that people like you are the sole reason for misery and suffering in the world today. To know that there are people out there like yourself who feel "okay" with being subjugated and oppressed almost makes me want to quit being a communist and take advantage of your stupid ass to make some money. But I&#39;m a compassionate person. :lol:

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 11:31 PM

I&#39;ll still be here to irritate the freedom hating communists that try to silence me......I won&#39;t be silenced no matter how hard they try....

I&#39;d love to see you try and explain why exactly condoning economic equality makes us haters of freedom. You are the one who hates freedom. You advocate inequality, hierarchy, subjugation, and oppression. Thus, a lack of freedom.


You can go ahead and elaborate for a million pages if want on how terrible the conditions are in Cuba, because we still know that removing a few from the top is a small price to pay for the abolition of poverty, illiteracy, and starvation.


per capita happiness

What the fuck is per capita happiness? Learn how to use the English language. I know that English is your first language, and there&#39;s no reason for you write such fucking dumbass moronic shit.

Is per capita happiness the total happiness of a nation or region divided by the number of inhabitants of that nation or region? :lol: :lol: :lol:

How do you measure happiness? Happy units? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that people like you are the sole reason for misery and suffering in the world today. To know that there are people out there like yourself who feel "okay" with being subjugated and oppressed almost makes me want to quit being a communist and take advantage of your stupid ass to make some money. But I&#39;m a compassionate person. :lol:
Listen you stupid little creature.....I don&#39;t hate freedom....if I did, I&#39;d be living where there was absolutely no freedom.....nor do I advocate inequality, hierarchy, subjugation or oppression. I can&#39;t change the way the world is....I&#39;ve learned to live with it. So if it can be changed why aren&#39;t you changing it then instead of just ranting and raving about it???

Poverty hasn&#39;t been abolished in Cuba.....so abolishing a few at the top is not a small price to pay.....maybe in your communist manual it is....

Per capita happiness was someone elses quote....I didn&#39;t come up with it. Listen fuck head....I know how to use the english language....too bad you didn&#39;t.....learn to read and write before you criticize my english you illiterate little jack ass. If you had brains you&#39;d be dangerous.....If ever I need a brain transplant I want your brain.....it&#39;s never been used....

people in glass houses shouldn&#39;t throw stones.....

I do not feel okay with being subjugated and oppressed....nor would you be able to take advantage of me to make money......don&#39;t make me laugh.....I&#39;m too smart for you......I&#39;d smell you coming.....

You compassionate......ya right......
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Why do insist on replying only to the insignificant little insults rather than the actual arguments?
You ignore everything other than the belittlement.


Listen you stupid little creature.....I don&#39;t hate freedom

Then why do you condemn socialism?
Let&#39;s have a real explanation this time.
It&#39;s your fucking fault this argument has digressed from a civilized debate, because you refuse to offer a rebuttal to any of the points I make.

Answer the questions&#33;
Why do you condemn Cuba when their standard of living is higher than any other third world capitalist nation? Let&#39;s see some facts.
Why do you support capitalism? Because you can&#39;t change it? Gimme a better reason.
And how exactly is Fidel Castro repressive? Let&#39;s see some hard facts, here. Before you address that last point, read the article I linked you to. No more fucking around. Answer the questions&#33;

Now I&#39;m Gonna call you a fucking stupid dumbass reactionary parasite, but you mustn&#39;t get hung up on that and ignore the real argument. Now let&#39;s see some answers.

[DaCuBaN]

It&#39;s a simple case of "giving as good as you get": If you didn&#39;t flame RZ, you wouldn&#39;t be flamed. To look at it another way, had you not flamed then you would have the perfect standpoint from which to plead innocense.

Anyway, Sparky...


I can&#39;t change the way the world is

Why not? What exactly is stopping you? What exactly makes those who can different from you?

The only barrier stopping you from chaning the world is.... you&#33;

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

To look at it another way, had you not flamed then you would have the perfect standpoint from which to plead innocense.

What are you talking about?

[DaCuBaN]

What are you talking about?

Example: "EEK&#33; I&#39;m being flamed&#33;"

This isn&#39;t possible, as you&#39;ve both been as bad as each other :P OK, you&#39;ve included some meat with your flame, but the fact remains that had you not flamed this thread would be a whole lot "happier".

:(

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You&#39;re right.
I kinda regret turning this into a flame war, but I believe that in the end it will have little impact on the fact that I&#39;m right and she&#39;s wrong.

[revolutionindia]

What the fuck is per capita happiness? Learn how to use the English language. I know that English is your first language, and there&#39;s no reason for you write such fucking dumbass moronic shit.

Is per capita happiness the total happiness of a nation or region divided by the number of inhabitants of that nation or region?

How do you measure happiness? Happy units?

Hey redzepplin that was my initiative :D

Don&#39;t abuse sparky for what I said

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 12:57 AM
If ever I need a brain transplant I want your brain.....it&#39;s never been used....


I if I ever have to perform a frontal lobotomy....I want your brain....It&#39;s fucked.

Oh by the way Sparko, I&#39;ll be touching down at Jose Marti on Wednesday to enjoy once more Cuba&#39;s wonderful revolution in action, and for the first time I won&#39;t need any of those dirty little greenbacks - I&#39;ll be taking sterling or euro&#39;s and I&#39;ll be spending vast quantaties of cash in state owned shops...

Any messages from your husband to the real Cubans?

[fernando]

This discussion has kinda fallen back to: "so you are pro Castro huh?...YOU DONT HAVE A LIFE&#33;&#33;&#33;" the whole anti Cuba arguments are now nothing more than personal insults <_<

One mentioned here that Cuba has child prostitution...and that would make Cuba a very "evil" country or something? Lets not ignore the fact that Eastern Asia is filled with child prostitution...we dont say anything about that since Eastern Asia are the US/Europe&#39;s economic partners in crime&#33;

Lets not ignore that Western Europe is filled with child prostitutes from Eastern Europe who just want to be here and have some more money, filled with the propaganda that Western lifestyle is better, while it only ends up bringing them misery&#33;

Capitalism (or Neo Liberalism as it has also been called) has only brought more poverty and unemployment in Latin America, Fujimori in Peru was praised for his Neo Liberal policies, but lets not forget that because of that a very large part of the population reached extreme poverty and unemployment. Who cares if he became a dictator who killed any form of opposition...he is protecting capitalist interests :unsure:

But ok...I&#39;ll wait till more personal insults will pop up and then replay again&#33;

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Danton+Nov 28 2004, 12:23 PM--> (Danton @ Nov 28 2004, 12:23 PM)
[email protected] 28 2004, 12:57 AM
If ever I need a brain transplant I want your brain.....it&#39;s never been used....


I if I ever have to perform a frontal lobotomy....I want your brain....It&#39;s fucked.

Oh by the way Sparko, I&#39;ll be touching down at Jose Marti on Wednesday to enjoy once more Cuba&#39;s wonderful revolution in action, and for the first time I won&#39;t need any of those dirty little greenbacks - I&#39;ll be taking sterling or euro&#39;s and I&#39;ll be spending vast quantaties of cash in state owned shops...

Any messages from your husband to the real Cubans? [/b]
Danton if brains were electricity your brain wouldn&#39;t have enough power to run the dynamo in a fire-fly&#39;s ass.....

So you&#39;re going to Cuba for the cheap rum, cigars and sex.....then you must be one of the evil sex tourists then. Does that make you a big man??? Does spending lots of money in state run stores make a bigger man of you???? It just makes you clueless.....even we have the sense to spend more with the locals rather than the state run stores.....but then again you aren&#39;t that smart are you??

Just because my husband moved out of Cuba doesn&#39;t make him less of a Cuban....maybe only in your eyes but he knows he&#39;s Cuban......and damned proud of his heritage.....and anything he has to say to the Cubans he knows he will say himself when he is there or over the phone.....

In your case....computers should come with breathalyzers and double digit lockouts for people like you dimwit.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:29 AM
It&#39;s a simple case of "giving as good as you get": If you didn&#39;t flame RZ, you wouldn&#39;t be flamed. To look at it another way, had you not flamed then you would have the perfect standpoint from which to plead innocense.

Anyway, Sparky...


I can&#39;t change the way the world is

Why not? What exactly is stopping you? What exactly makes those who can different from you?

The only barrier stopping you from chaning the world is.... you&#33;
Dacuban....I would never have flamed RZ had he not flamed me first.....my husband has never done anything to these people yet they feel they can insult him.....just because he chose to leave Cuba. He left Cuba to be with me....not because of the political/economical situation. When someone insults him of course I&#39;m going to defend him.....what kind of wife would I be if I didn&#39;t.

If I knew how to change the world I would have done it a long time ago....but I don&#39;t. But that doesn&#39;t mean that I don&#39;t want changes in this world.....I don&#39;t think it&#39;s right that anyone should go to bed hungry or not have a roof over their heads......

So tell me....how do I change the world???

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 09:35 AM

What the fuck is per capita happiness? Learn how to use the English language. I know that English is your first language, and there&#39;s no reason for you write such fucking dumbass moronic shit.

Is per capita happiness the total happiness of a nation or region divided by the number of inhabitants of that nation or region?

How do you measure happiness? Happy units?

Hey redzepplin that was my initiative :D

Don&#39;t abuse sparky for what I said
As you may have noticed Revolutionindia....RZ likes to abuse me.....it gives him extreme pleasure and makes him feel like more of a man if he can abuse someone else..... <_< <_< <_< <_<

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:09 PM
So tell me....how do I change the world???

1. Study so you understand the issues and feel as if you can make a meaningful contribution to the world

2. Make sure tn enjoy your life

3. Stay in love permanently

4. Have some time for yourself / some time to relax.

5. Fight for good causes and demand international socialism to bring dignity to the everyday person -- now you are being productive and making a meaningful contribution.

Of course, you have to understand and believe in socialism first, and I don&#39;t know if you do.


"Modern anthropology has taught us, through comparative investigation of so-called primitive cultures, that the social behavior of human beings may differ greatly, depending upon prevailing cultural patterns and the types of organization which predominate in society. It is on this that those who are striving to improve the lot of man may ground their hopes: human beings are not condemned, because of their biological constitution, to annihilate each other or to be at the mercy of a cruel, self-inflicted fate....The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."

- Albert Einstein

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 01:09 PM
This discussion has kinda fallen back to: "so you are pro Castro huh?...YOU DONT HAVE A LIFE&#33;&#33;&#33;" the whole anti Cuba arguments are now nothing more than personal insults <_<

One mentioned here that Cuba has child prostitution...and that would make Cuba a very "evil" country or something? Lets not ignore the fact that Eastern Asia is filled with child prostitution...we dont say anything about that since Eastern Asia are the US/Europe&#39;s economic partners in crime&#33;

Lets not ignore that Western Europe is filled with child prostitutes from Eastern Europe who just want to be here and have some more money, filled with the propaganda that Western lifestyle is better, while it only ends up bringing them misery&#33;

Capitalism (or Neo Liberalism as it has also been called) has only brought more poverty and unemployment in Latin America, Fujimori in Peru was praised for his Neo Liberal policies, but lets not forget that because of that a very large part of the population reached extreme poverty and unemployment. Who cares if he became a dictator who killed any form of opposition...he is protecting capitalist interests :unsure:

But ok...I&#39;ll wait till more personal insults will pop up and then replay again&#33;
Fernando prostitution is as old as time and will never go away as long as there is a demand for the services. What bothers me is when it involves children......only a sick individual would use a child for sex. But you can&#39;t just blame capitalism for that......who is paying these children??? Foreigners....Why aren&#39;t they being charged??? Where are the parents of these girl children??? What kind of parent would let their girls ruin their lives like that....

Don&#39;t lay all the blame for child prostitution at the feet of capitalism.....laws in these countries need to be changed and enforced. Instead of just going after the prostitute and jailing her/him go after the john as well.

In Cuba sex with an underaged girl is illegal and the person will be jailed if caught but in the case of prostitution only the prostitute is jailed and not the john.....it&#39;s time for the john to be jailed if you want to put a stop to it....

[komon]

1rst stop agression......
2nd
In Cuba sex with an underaged girl is illegal and the person will be jailed if caught but in the case of prostitution only the prostitute is jailed and not the john.....it&#39;s time for the john to be jailed if you want to put a stop to it....
can america stop makin porno and bizness out of it that way nobody will be blame
3rd
.it&#39;s time for the john to be jailed if you want to put a stop to it...
a stop to what.bush or wacko like carnage?

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:52 PM
1rst stop agression......
2nd
In Cuba sex with an underaged girl is illegal and the person will be jailed if caught but in the case of prostitution only the prostitute is jailed and not the john.....it&#39;s time for the john to be jailed if you want to put a stop to it....
can america stop makin porno and bizness out of it that way nobody will be blame
3rd
.it&#39;s time for the john to be jailed if you want to put a stop to it...
a stop to what.bush or wacko like carnage?
I agree stop the aggression.....but that has nothing to do with prostitution...

Second, it isn&#39;t just America making pornography.....many countries in the world make it. If there wasn&#39;t a demand for it then it wouldn&#39;t be made.....

[komon]

Second, it isn&#39;t just America making pornography.....many countries in the world make it. If there wasn&#39;t a demand for it then it wouldn&#39;t be made.....


ok,monney(or greed) do that,or american and dutch going to thailand or phillipine

[fernando]

Why aren&#39;t they being charged??? Where are the parents of these girl children??? What kind of parent would let their girls ruin their lives like that....
Yes...charge the foreigners, they want to use these girls...perhaps the media should complain that rich Western people want to go to Cuba to have sex with children instead of saying "Cuba is evil because tourists want to have sex with children"


Where are the parents of these girl children??? What kind of parent would let their girls ruin their lives like that....

There are many possibilities to what might have happened to their parents, but tell me...which parent would want to see their child as a prostitute...adult or child prostitute? But then again Cuba is a Third World country, resources are rare (because of the economic embargo and US supported terrorism) so prostitution is something they might fall back to.

Poverty is the cause of child prostitution in Third World countries.

Don&#39;t lay all the blame for child prostitution at the feet of capitalism.....laws in these countries need to be changed and enforced. Instead of just going after the prostitute and jailing her/him go after the john as well.
Capitalism keeps these countries poor or makes them even poorer, hence the prostitution will stay. And yes they should go after the client, not the prostitute themselves.

But then again this is the problem with prostitution...not socialism or Cuban socialism.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:11 AM
Why do insist on replying only to the insignificant little insults rather than the actual arguments?
You ignore everything other than the belittlement.


Listen you stupid little creature.....I don&#39;t hate freedom

Then why do you condemn socialism?
Let&#39;s have a real explanation this time.
It&#39;s your fucking fault this argument has digressed from a civilized debate, because you refuse to offer a rebuttal to any of the points I make.

Answer the questions&#33;
Why do you condemn Cuba when their standard of living is higher than any other third world capitalist nation? Let&#39;s see some facts.
Why do you support capitalism? Because you can&#39;t change it? Gimme a better reason.
And how exactly is Fidel Castro repressive? Let&#39;s see some hard facts, here. Before you address that last point, read the article I linked you to. No more fucking around. Answer the questions&#33;

Now I&#39;m Gonna call you a fucking stupid dumbass reactionary parasite, but you mustn&#39;t get hung up on that and ignore the real argument. Now let&#39;s see some answers.
Tell me Red did you study to become that expertly stupid or does it come naturally???? Keep talking and someday you&#39;ll say something semi-intelligent....but then again you have dillusions of competence....

First of all, nowhere in any of my posts have I condemned socialism.....I&#39;ve never said either way what I think of socialism. But then again maybe that&#39;s what you read in my posts and interpreted it that way.....so now your IQ has reached rock bottom and is showing signs of starting to dig....

Don&#39;t go blaming me for the way this argument has gone.....you threw the first stone....if you hadn&#39;t flamed me first I wouldn&#39;t have flamed you. Tit for Tat.....if you can&#39;t take the heat get out of the kitchen....I&#39;ll try to be nicer to you if you try being smarter....

And I&#39;m going to say it again DON&#39;T TELL ME WHAT TO DO&#33;&#33;&#33; Gawd you&#39;re so dense that light bends around you....

Their standard of living MAY be better then that of other third world countries but not necessarily......rice and beans is not that healthy on a daily basis. Milk rations up till the age of 7??? Guess what....children need milk for a lot longer then that.....nutrition plays an important part in preventing certain diseases throughout life.....and this is just a small example....I could come up with more...

If it wasn&#39;t for capitalism then we wouldn&#39;t have the goods that we have.....nor all the international trade......

Have you ever seen the way the Cubans are treated??? Obviously not or you wouldn&#39;t ask such a stupid question. If a cuban woman is seen talking to a foreigner it is automatically assumed that she is a prostitute.....I know of one case where the woman was trying to give directions to a foreigner....her english was terrible and his spanish was equally as bad......the authorities focused on her and accused her of being a prostitute....and all she was trying to do is give directions. It did get cleared up but it took a couple of days. The regulations regarding foreigners/cubans are antiquated and need to be changed.....the harrassment I have received from authorities when I would visit my husband was reprehensible....all my documents were always in order.....and I always checked in with Immigration when I got there. All because I married a Cuban and don&#39;t stay at the all important resorts. When I would visit we would have to carry our marriage certificate with us at all time in order not to be harrassed....I sure don&#39;t see that happening in capitalist countries....do you??? And this is just a small sampling of the repression....as I&#39;ve said before I could go on for pages.....but trying to explain something to you is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple.....

You are living proof that evolution goes in reverse you little dickwad. Single celled organisms outscore you in IQ tests.....

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Once again, Sparky, you have failed to address any of the points brought against your agenda.
You have failed to prove anything. Who fucking cares about your husband? Not me. Apparently the insults have offended you too much. Maybe when you stop crying you can carry on a real argument.


Tell me Red did you study to become that expertly stupid or does it come naturally???? Keep talking and someday you&#39;ll say something semi-intelligent....but then again you have dillusions of competence....

First of all, nowhere in any of my posts have I condemned socialism.....I&#39;ve never said either way what I think of socialism. But then again maybe that&#39;s what you read in my posts and interpreted it that way.....so now your IQ has reached rock bottom and is showing signs of starting to dig....

Don&#39;t go blaming me for the way this argument has gone.....you threw the first stone....if you hadn&#39;t flamed me first I wouldn&#39;t have flamed you. Tit for Tat.....if you can&#39;t take the heat get out of the kitchen....I&#39;ll try to be nicer to you if you try being smarter....

And I&#39;m going to say it again DON&#39;T TELL ME WHAT TO DO&#33;&#33;&#33; Gawd you&#39;re so dense that light bends around you....

So far, about 50% of your post is just flaming. Go cry somewhere else.
Let&#39;s get to the real issues here, spanky.


Their standard of living MAY be better then that of other third world countries but not necessarily......rice and beans is not that healthy on a daily basis. Milk rations up till the age of 7??? Guess what....children need milk for a lot longer then that.....nutrition plays an important part in preventing certain diseases throughout life.....and this is just a small example....I could come up with more...

The little food that they have is more than what millions survive on in most of the capitalist world. About 80% of the capitalist world being the miserable third world.


If it wasn&#39;t for capitalism then we wouldn&#39;t have the goods that we have.....nor all the international trade......

What kind of an argument is that?
Do you think that I wish capitalism had never existed? Capitalism is part of the natural course of human development. Any commie will tell you that.


Have you ever seen the way the Cubans are treated??? Obviously not or you wouldn&#39;t ask such a stupid question. If a cuban woman is seen talking to a foreigner it is automatically assumed that she is a prostitute.....I know of one case where the woman was trying to give directions to a foreigner....her english was terrible and his spanish was equally as bad......the authorities focused on her and accused her of being a prostitute....and all she was trying to do is give directions. It did get cleared up but it took a couple of days. The regulations regarding foreigners/cubans are antiquated and need to be changed.....the harrassment I have received from authorities when I would visit my husband was reprehensible....all my documents were always in order.....and I always checked in with Immigration when I got there. All because I married a Cuban and don&#39;t stay at the all important resorts. When I would visit we would have to carry our marriage certificate with us at all time in order not to be harrassed....I sure don&#39;t see that happening in capitalist countries....do you??? And this is just a small sampling of the repression....as I&#39;ve said before I could go on for pages.....but trying to explain something to you is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple.....

Those Cubans are treated that way because their comrades are trying to protect themselves from prostitution, CIA insurgents, and other such threats to their revolution. Don&#39;t think that is all doing of the heads of the communist party. If you had read the article I linked you to, you would know that all Cubans have direct political power.

[fernando]

The regulations regarding foreigners/cubans are antiquated and need to be changed.....the harrassment I have received from authorities when I would visit my husband was reprehensible....all my documents were always in order.....and I always checked in with Immigration when I got there. All because I married a Cuban and don&#39;t stay at the all important resorts. When I would visit we would have to carry our marriage certificate with us at all time in order not to be harrassed....I sure don&#39;t see that happening in capitalist countries....do you??? And this is just a small sampling of the repression....as I&#39;ve said before I could go on for pages.....but trying to explain something to you is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple.....


Hahaha...probably never been to Peru (Fujimori time) before havent you? Or to another country when a US backed dictator was in power? The amounts of bullshit me and my mom got there, eventhough my mom used to live there and my grandfather was a Peruvian diplomat way before that (hence the reason why we can check through diplomatic gates there...ok I feel guilty now). The way you are threated like that says nothing about economical ideologies...I mean you can get harrassed in capitalist nations just as bad as socialist ones.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

How about we stick to the topic and refrain from making posts that are entirely flaming and spaming. I have half a mind to warn your ass again.

You are yet to refute any of the arguments presented against your agenda. I suggest you stay out of this thread until you&#39;re prepared to say something constructive that can contribute to the discussion, something that you have not done very much of in your posts.

I asked you to answer a few simply questions regarding Cuba and your convictions against socialism in Cuba. You could not even do that. let&#39;s stop with this absurd rhetoric and address the points, spanky.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

two or three weeks

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:01 PM
So you&#39;re going to Cuba for the cheap rum, cigars and sex.....then you must be one of the evil sex tourists then. Does that make you a big man??? Does spending lots of money in state run stores make a bigger man of you???? It just makes you clueless.....even we have the sense to spend more with the locals rather than the state run stores.....but then again you aren&#39;t that smart are you??


There will be lots of rum, sex and cigars and music but i&#39;m no sex tourist - I&#39;m a cultural ambassador. In fact, they pay me for sex, &#036;100 a night onstage at the tropicana to dance naked with snakes.


I prefer my euros to be distributed equally amongst the people - it&#39;s cocksuckers like you and your husband who are trying to create a two tier society.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 10:28 PM
How about we stick to the topic and refrain from making posts that are entirely flaming and spaming. I have half a mind to warn your ass again.

You are yet to refute any of the arguments presented against your agenda. I suggest you stay out of this thread until you&#39;re prepared to say something constructive that can contribute to the discussion, something that you have not done very much of in your posts.

I asked you to answer a few simply questions regarding Cuba and your convictions against socialism in Cuba. You could not even do that. let&#39;s stop with this absurd rhetoric and address the points, spanky.
So it&#39;s Spanky now is it??? At least spell my name right&#33;&#33;&#33; You have yet to show me where in my posts I&#39;ve said anything AGAINST Socialism.....because you can&#39;t as I&#39;ve never said a thing against it.

You have half a mind to warn me again....at least you&#39;re telling the truth for a change....you do only have half a mind. So now you&#39;re oppressing my freedom of speech now eh???? So typically communistic of you.....go for it....do I look like I care what you think.

You didn&#39;t ask.....you demanded.....and I don&#39;t take orders from you......

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 08:27 AM

There will be lots of rum, sex and cigars and music but i&#39;m no sex tourist - I&#39;m a cultural ambassador. In fact, they pay me for sex, &#036;100 a night onstage at the tropicana to dance naked with snakes.


I prefer my euros to be distributed equally amongst the people - it&#39;s cocksuckers like you and your husband who are trying to create a two tier society. [/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cultural ambassador my ass.....legend in your own mind is more like it....sex turista is the word for you.

We aren&#39;t trying to create anything that isn&#39;t there already.....

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

So it&#39;s Spanky now is it??? At least spell my name right&#33;&#33;&#33; You have yet to show me where in my posts I&#39;ve said anything AGAINST Socialism.....because you can&#39;t as I&#39;ve never said a thing against it.

Don&#39;t cry, dearie.
Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.
You also condoned capitalism, which is a blatant condemnation of socialism.
You also condemned the standard of living in Cuba, which you are yet to show evidence for.


You have half a mind to warn me again....at least you&#39;re telling the truth for a change....you do only have half a mind. So now you&#39;re oppressing my freedom of speech now eh???? So typically communistic of you.....go for it....do I look like I care what you think.

You know, I&#39;m gonna refrain from having this ridiculous little flame war with you and not reply to the spam. Maybe you can do the same, for once.

I’m gonna ignore the fact that you have shown no evidence of having a counter argument, and give you another chance to show some proof of the many convictions you have made against Cuba.

[DaCuBaN]

Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.

Is it hell&#33;

It may be the best example of socialism in the world to date, but it&#39;s still a repressive society. Whilst one may argue this is directly a result of the US embargo, the fact remains.


Don&#39;t cry, dearie.

Easy now, "RAF" <_<

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 09:34 PM

So it&#39;s Spanky now is it??? At least spell my name right&#33;&#33;&#33; You have yet to show me where in my posts I&#39;ve said anything AGAINST Socialism.....because you can&#39;t as I&#39;ve never said a thing against it.

Don&#39;t cry, dearie.
Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.
You also condoned capitalism, which is a blatant condemnation of socialism.
You also condemned the standard of living in Cuba, which you are yet to show evidence for.


You have half a mind to warn me again....at least you&#39;re telling the truth for a change....you do only have half a mind. So now you&#39;re oppressing my freedom of speech now eh???? So typically communistic of you.....go for it....do I look like I care what you think.

You know, I&#39;m gonna refrain from having this ridiculous little flame war with you and not reply to the spam. Maybe you can do the same, for once.

I’m gonna ignore the fact that you have shown no evidence of having a counter argument, and give you another chance to show some proof of the many convictions you have made against Cuba.
I didn&#39;t condemn Cuba or socialism.....I condemned certain things in Cuba....there&#39;s a difference. It&#39;s the same with capitalism.....I don&#39;t condone everything about it....there&#39;s good and bad in both Socialism and Capitalism. I don&#39;t need to read a book to describe the conditions in Cuba.....I&#39;ve seen them for myself....so take your nose out of the books and off the internet and go see for yourself little man.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You have still failed to prove your convictions. Try again.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 09:42 PM

Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.

Is it hell&#33;

It may be the best example of socialism in the world to date, but it&#39;s still a repressive society. Whilst one may argue this is directly a result of the US embargo, the fact remains.


Don&#39;t cry, dearie.

Easy now, "RAF" <_<
Well put DaCuban....Better known as a Police State.....Everyone blames just the US Embargo.....while that is a big part of the problem it is only part of it.......Castro is the other part.....

[DaCuBaN]

Better known as a Police State

This too, is untrue: Cuba is no more a police state than the US. OK, maybe a bad example - but you catch my drift.

Now, where&#39;d I put my pipe...

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 10:10 PM
You have still failed to prove your convictions. Try again.
Maybe you should go there and see for yourself.....but then again as a tourist you&#39;d be treated differently. Cubans and foreign spouses aren&#39;t treated the same way as tourists......

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 10:16 PM
Now, where&#39;d I put my pipe...
It&#39;s where you left it last.....now pass it on..... :P :P

[synthesis]

Originally posted by sparky44+Nov 29 2004, 03:13 PM--> (sparky44 @ Nov 29 2004, 03:13 PM)
[email protected] 29 2004, 09:42 PM

Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.

Is it hell&#33;

It may be the best example of socialism in the world to date, but it&#39;s still a repressive society. Whilst one may argue this is directly a result of the US embargo, the fact remains.


Don&#39;t cry, dearie.

Easy now, "RAF" <_<
Well put DaCuban....Better known as a Police State.....Everyone blames just the US Embargo.....while that is a big part of the problem it is only part of it.......Castro is the other part..... [/b]
It&#39;s not just the embargo, it&#39;s the history of U.S.-American relations. If you&#39;d been through half of what Castro has been through, in terms of dealing with violent U.S.-funded counter-revolutionaries posing as Cuban patriots, you&#39;d probably be pretty paranoid, too.

Let me put it another way. It would seem to be a truism that a political organization can topple or be toppled with or without the consent of the majority of the populace, simply by the use of violence.

Now, even bourgeois statistics like a 1996 Gallup poll suggest that more Cubans still support the revolution and feel that the gains from it were positive overall. Since the Cuban counter-revolutionaries have overwhelmingly resorted to violent terrorism to try to get rid of Castro, Fidel feels that he is representing the Cuban people by attempting to root out these subversives and nullify the effect of their actions as much as possible.

Now, I know that the plural of &#39;anecdote&#39; is not &#39;data&#39;, but I have heard stories from enough Cubans about their experiences with dissenting with the state to know that it&#39;s not the Orwellian nightmare you right-wing pricks want to portray it as. As long as you don&#39;t call for the violent overthrow of the government, you&#39;ll probably be okay, which is pretty similar to how it is here in America.

I think the problem is that you right-wingers are trying to hold Cuba to the standards of industrialized countries. When you look at the condition that Cuba was in under Batista, Castro would seem to be no less than a miracle worker. Comparing Cuba&#39;s bourgeois freedoms (freedom of speech, the press, etc) to other Third World countries (especially those who bow to the U.S. such as Uzbekistan) will give you a pretty positive picture as well.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 05:27 PM
Maybe you should go there and see for yourself.....but then again as a tourist you&#39;d be treated differently. Cubans and foreign spouses aren&#39;t treated the same way as tourists......
Once again, you fail to prove, or even provide evidence for the claims that you have made.

This getting to be rather sad...

[sparky44]

Originally posted by RedZeppelin+Nov 30 2004, 01:51 AM--> (RedZeppelin @ Nov 30 2004, 01:51 AM)
[email protected] 29 2004, 05:27 PM
Maybe you should go there and see for yourself.....but then again as a tourist you&#39;d be treated differently. Cubans and foreign spouses aren&#39;t treated the same way as tourists......
Once again, you fail to prove, or even provide evidence for the claims that you have made.

This getting to be rather sad... [/b]
OOOO now the commie is oppressing my freedom of speech......what a fucking coward....

[synthesis]

I think it&#39;s amusing and very telling that this woman chooses to make such a pointless, illogical, and abusive post as the one we see above instead of actually responding to a post once someone has bothered to make a rational argument against her nonsense.

I think this is a good indication of the right-wing, anti-Communist mentality in general. They&#39;d rather have something, anything about which to wail interminably rather than make a valid point about the topic at hand.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:03 AM
I think it&#39;s amusing and very telling that this woman chooses to make such a pointless, illogical, and abusive post as the one we see above instead of actually responding to a post once someone has bothered to make a rational argument against her nonsense.

I think this is a good indication of the right-wing, anti-Communist mentality in general. They&#39;d rather have something, anything about which to wail interminably rather than make a valid point about the topic at hand.
I did but RZ deleted it.

[fernando]

You fucking quoted him:


Once again, you fail to prove, or even provide evidence for the claims that you have made.

This getting to be rather sad...

how is he being an oppressive communist here? he just tells you that you say stuff without giving a source besides "my husband told me" or "I once experienced" :rolleyes:

[revolutionindia]

Don&#39;t cry, dearie.
Cuba is socialist. You condemned Cuba, so you condemned socialism.
You also condoned capitalism, which is a blatant condemnation of socialism.
You also condemned the standard of living in Cuba, which you are yet to show evidence for.

Cuba gives socialism a bad name
It&#39;s the usual dictator&#39;s gone bad story(Like so many others)

Keep a referendum thats not rigged and castro will lose

RZ

The point you are missing here is
Sparky has nothing against socialism but cuba&#39;s socialism leaves a lot to be
desired.

She has just expressed her faith in capitalism,the same way you have faith in communism despite its constant failures

Is she to blame for having faith in capitalism ?

No you are to blame
because the only alternative you have to offer
is a failed state under castro or that nut from north korea
with a weird hairstyle and potraits of stalin.mao and che t-shirts

You can spend all your life and a few of your next preaching that stalin wasn&#39;t communist and neither is
north korea and china ? But tell me who will believe you ? and why would they?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by sparky44+Nov 30 2004, 04:15 AM--> (sparky44 @ Nov 30 2004, 04:15 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 01:51 AM

[email protected] 29 2004, 05:27 PM
Maybe you should go there and see for yourself.....but then again as a tourist you&#39;d be treated differently. Cubans and foreign spouses aren&#39;t treated the same way as tourists......
Once again, you fail to prove, or even provide evidence for the claims that you have made.

This getting to be rather sad...
OOOO now the commie is oppressing my freedom of speech......what a fucking coward.... [/b]
No, Sparky, you were spamming. He is a moderator, it is his job to delete spam, and if you like I can elaborate on the hierarchy of an internet message board, so you can understand this remarkably simple concept.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Enigma+Nov 30 2004, 04:04 PM--> (Enigma @ Nov 30 2004, 04:04 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 01:51 AM

[email protected] 29 2004, 05:27 PM
Maybe you should go there and see for yourself.....but then again as a tourist you&#39;d be treated differently. Cubans and foreign spouses aren&#39;t treated the same way as tourists......
Once again, you fail to prove, or even provide evidence for the claims that you have made.

This getting to be rather sad...
OOOO now the commie is oppressing my freedom of speech......what a fucking coward....
No, Sparky, you were spamming. He is a moderator, it is his job to delete spam, and if you like I can elaborate on the hierarchy of an internet message board, so you can understand this remarkably simple concept. [/b]
I was calling a spade a spade and if he doesn&#39;t like it then he has a personal problem.....

What you and RZ fail to realize is that personal experience and NOT WHAT MY HUSBAND TELLS ME isn&#39;t going to get into the newspapers or the history books or the internet....and is just as important as the crap that you commie pukes worship. Do you really think someone is going to be stupid enough to take a picture of the authorities harrassing foreigners and cubans together?? I think not....not if they don&#39;t want to be harrassed. And deleting that post is OPPRESSING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH...because it disagrees with his.

The post that he deleted had personal experiences of not just myself but other people married to cubans as well as cubans themselves.....and if you fail to get that concept then you are truly an experiment in artificial stupidity and living proof that evolution really does go in reverse....

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

This is not the place to complain about the deletion of your spam.


Do you really think someone is going to be stupid enough to take a picture of the authorities harrassing foreigners and cubans together?? I think not....not if they don&#39;t want to be harrassed. And deleting that post is OPPRESSING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH...because it disagrees with his.

I can just as easily say that all Canadians are raped daily by the Mounties, but that wouldn&#39;t prove or provide evidence for anything.

I&#39;ve already given you plenty of chances to come up with anything, so I doubt you have any concrete sources to back up your stories.

If you leave now, you&#39;ll save yourself further embarrassment. Go along before we make an even bigger ass of you.

[Invader Zim]

What you and RZ fail to realize is that personal experience and NOT WHAT MY HUSBAND TELLS ME isn&#39;t going to get into the newspapers or the history books or the internet....

because its bullshit.

We are always being told how horrible life is in Cuba, and how some people attempt to escape each year. Yet its a statistical fact that Cuba is the most successful country in Latin America, and that the standard of living has risen significantly from what it was.

Of course a small minority suffer, the ones who wish to return to the old system where the US and the Mob ruled Cuba, why is this? Purely economic reasons I imagine.

and is just as important as the crap that you commie pukes worship

Your first error is to assume that I am a communist, your second error is to assume I worship anything. I deal in facts, what you and your husband are telling us is not supported by the facts, thus there are only two logical conclusions, 1st your lying. 2nd if you not lying then your case is rare, and their are huge numbers of "horror" stories coming from America and the UK, yet I don&#39;t see you criticizing these nations. Why? Simply because your bias, and don’t actually give a damn about anyone else, and are so wrapped up in your own petty life that anyone else can go to hell.

Do you really think someone is going to be stupid enough to take a picture of the authorities harrassing foreigners and cubans together

Don&#39;t be naive, any number of authorities or individuals could do their own investigation, and gather photographic evidence with ease, covert surveillance techniques have been shaped almost to perfection. If someone wanted to gather photographic evidence of these crimes then they could, with ease. As you will notice was the case in Zimbabwe not very long ago.

And deleting that post is OPPRESSING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH...because it disagrees with his.


You didn&#39;t say anything constructive, you spammed. And may i add this web space is private property, when you joined you signed an agreement which stated, and i quote: -

"If you have nothing productive to say, don&#39;t say it&#33;"

Your suggestion that by deleting your spam is oppressing your freedom of speech is ludicrous. This is private property, if you were to grab someone’s notepad and start scribbling nonsense in it, you would have no right to demand that they do not tear the page out and bin it.

and if you fail to get that concept then you are truly an experiment in artificial stupidity and living proof that evolution really does go in reverse....

Yet another example of your unwillingness to follow the rules.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is racist, anti-Semitic, knowingly false and/or defamatory, hateful, threatening, invasive of a person&#39;s privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

Of course normally a little toleration of such abusive attacks is granted, but not for spamming trolls. You are only tolerated here because the owner has seen fit to give you that right, you should not abuse it.

If you are unwilling to follow these rules then I suggest you leave.

[EneME]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:03 AM
I think it&#39;s amusing and very telling that this woman chooses to make such a pointless, illogical, and abusive post as the one we see above instead of actually responding to a post once someone has bothered to make a rational argument against her nonsense.

I think this is a good indication of the right-wing, anti-Communist mentality in general. They&#39;d rather have something, anything about which to wail interminably rather than make a valid point about the topic at hand.
Excellent point, and well said. I really don&#39;t see why any of us BOTHER to continue on with this woman. She&#39;s obviously close-minded who believes the drivel on Fox who has no hope to go beyond whats spoon fed to her. It&#39;s ironic that those who preach "free speech" are the one&#39;s who DON&#39;T use it, instead they try to keep US quiet and censor US....I just seriously don&#39;t see the point of wasting our breaths.

Sparky, why do you waste your time? Why don&#39;t you go to a conservative board so you can all repeat the same drivel to eachother? You obviously DON&#39;T want to discuss intellectually, DON&#39;T want to attempt to at least RESPECT our POV&#39;s...so what&#39;s the point?

[leftist resistance]

I agree.

Let&#39;s just leave her to her own self.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by EneME+Nov 30 2004, 11:32 PM--> (EneME @ Nov 30 2004, 11:32 PM)
[email protected] 30 2004, 07:03 AM
I think it&#39;s amusing and very telling that this woman chooses to make such a pointless, illogical, and abusive post as the one we see above instead of actually responding to a post once someone has bothered to make a rational argument against her nonsense.

I think this is a good indication of the right-wing, anti-Communist mentality in general. They&#39;d rather have something, anything about which to wail interminably rather than make a valid point about the topic at hand.
Excellent point, and well said. I really don&#39;t see why any of us BOTHER to continue on with this woman. She&#39;s obviously close-minded who believes the drivel on Fox who has no hope to go beyond whats spoon fed to her. It&#39;s ironic that those who preach "free speech" are the one&#39;s who DON&#39;T use it, instead they try to keep US quiet and censor US....I just seriously don&#39;t see the point of wasting our breaths.

Sparky, why do you waste your time? Why don&#39;t you go to a conservative board so you can all repeat the same drivel to eachother? You obviously DON&#39;T want to discuss intellectually, DON&#39;T want to attempt to at least RESPECT our POV&#39;s...so what&#39;s the point? [/b]
First of all I did originally respond to posts but got nothing but abuse in return....so I gave it back.....in spades. If you don&#39;t like it then oh well....get a life. Not everything that one says can be backed with physical evidence but that doesn&#39;t mean it doesn&#39;t happen.......not all personal experiences make it to print but that doesn&#39;t mean that it didn&#39;t happen. I&#39;m a supporter of human rights and freedoms not the communist manifesto. Doesn&#39;t make me closed minded.....I&#39;m not the one oppressing the freedom of speech and if you think I am....then prove it...if you can. I&#39;m not stopping you....

I wouldn&#39;t waste my time watching FOX....I can think for myself and don&#39;t need to be spoon fed any information....unlike those that believe everything they read.

If you want to see repression against journalists in Cuba then ask the journalists in jail there....just ask Reporters without Borders

Human Rights Violations....talk to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and the International Red Cross......

I attempted respect but got bashed instead and gave back what I got....

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

It&#39;s understandable if there is no evidence for an occurrence or for an alleged occurrence. However, we have presented evidence against your claims, and the only means by which you can refute evidence is with evidence. And you don&#39;t have any. It&#39;s illogical for either us or you to stubbornly continue to believe your foundationless claims.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 09:18 PM
It&#39;s understandable if there is no evidence for an occurrence or for an alleged occurrence. However, we have presented evidence against your claims, and the only means by which you can refute evidence is with evidence. And you don&#39;t have any. It&#39;s illogical for either us or you to stubbornly continue to believe your foundationless claims.
All I have for evidence is witnesses.....and most of them live in Cuba where they don&#39;t have the same free access to information that we have here.......nor the same freedom of speech that we enjoy. In order for them to get access it costs them half a months salary and I&#39;m sure that they can think of better places to spend that money on other than trying to send emails.

And by the way......tell me......do you think you could feed a family of 4 on 270 pesos a month?? The conditions may be better there than in a lot of 3rd world countries but that doesn&#39;t mean that the conditions are good......if they were that great then so many Cubans wouldn&#39;t be trying to leave the country.....and the ones that have left wouldn&#39;t be sending the necessary goods back to their families that need them.

Just because you haven&#39;t seen it doesn&#39;t mean that it doesn&#39;t occur......

[The Grapes of Wrath]

Sparky my friend and everyone else,

Come on now. This is going nowhere. I&#39;ve read most of the posts and they are all just childish name-calling, I&#39;m waiting for someone to bust out the "well, my Dad can beat up your Dad."

Now, Sparky, you can&#39;t take Cuba as the supreme example of socialism/communism or whatever. Is there suppression there? Sure. There is oppression everywhere. Is there suppression on Canada? I&#39;m sure there is. Suppression can be either subtle or flamboyant. They don&#39;t have a free press there, this I think most of us can admit. However, if you think about it, does the US and Canada? Think about it.

As for the money they make ... that is much better than most Latin American and even third world nations. As for the Cubans leaving their country ... last time I checked people were emigrating out of Canada. They were emigrating out of Poland, and Morocco, and China, and India. They are looking for greener pastures. So, does this make these countries bad? Not necessarily.

What you are describing about the Cubans sending money back is just as the Italians and other nationalities did in the United States during the early 1900s. They came here, they worked, they sent money home, they worked some more, and then a lot of them went home, as in back to Italy. Now, Cubans need to get money and so forth. Is this, and their oppression a result of a virtual war stance with the United States for the last 50 yrs? America still has a stranglehold on trade there, why? what is the point? It weakens a nation, and what a better enemy than those dirty, bloodthirsty, Red, oppressive, smelly, ugly, drunken, cigar smoking, rapist, dreadlocked, feminist, anit-individualist, disgusting, unbathed little wieners called Communists? (and yes, I was being sarcastic, however, I am not a Communist).

Freedom of the press, eh? Free speech, eh? How come I never anything different than that stated above? We must have selective access to the press, or at least, selective writing.

[The Grapes of Wrath]

Oh, lots of typos huh? Haha, well, shit happens. Should be "in Canada" and not "on Canada." Plus the second to last sentence should read "How come I have never heard anything ..." but you get the idea.

TGOW

[Sabocat]

That&#39;s what the edit button is for. ;)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

And by the way......tell me......do you think you could feed a family of 4 on 270 pesos a month??

Cubans very seldom suffer from malnutrition. (http://www.unm.edu/~nvaldes/Cuba/nutri.htm#_ednref36)

Let&#39;s compare that to Latin America as a whole, shall we?
43.4% of Latin Americans are poor
18.8% are very poor
In three years, the poverty level of Argentina has risen from 24% to 44%
In Uruguay poverty has risen by 60% in the past three years
In nearly all Central American countries, including some South American countries more than half of the population live below the poverty line.
In 2000 about 60 million Latin Americans experienced insecure food supplies, or famine.
In Bolivia, Haiti, Guatemala, The Dominican Republic, Honduras, and Nicaragua nearly a quarter of the population suffers from malnutrition.

While in Cuba, merely 5% suffer from malnutrition.

sources:
http://www.lpp-uerj.net/olped/BoletimSecre...tim_ingles2.pdf (http://www.lpp-uerj.net/olped/BoletimSecretaria/boletim_ingles2.pdf)
and
http://www.unm.edu/~nvaldes/Cuba/nutri.htm


The conditions may be better there than in a lot of 3rd world countries but that doesn&#39;t mean that the conditions are good

They sound pretty good to me, in regards to Cuba&#39;s conditions and in relation to its neighbors.


if they were that great then so many Cubans wouldn&#39;t be trying to leave the country

Are you saying that Cuba has a standard of living lower than that the US?
I don&#39;t think anyone is challenging that claim.
Is Cuba&#39;s socialist regime to blame for its sub-first world standard of living?
No.
All Latin American nations suffer from a sub-first world standard of living.
Why don&#39;t you try to investigate why so many Mexicans, for example, flee to the US?
As you&#39;ll find out, it has nothing to do with socialism or its absence.

As my sources prove, Cuba is the only Latin American nation to have put an end to rampant poverty.

[Osman Ghazi]

I&#39;m lucky enough to be going there in January. I&#39;ll see it firsthand, then I won&#39;t have to rely on other&#39;s ambigous reporting.

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 12:33 PM
1949

did not exist in developed socialist societies

Hahahateeheesnort. Are you seriously trying to tell us there was no difference in material wealth between a high-ranking party official and a post-revolutionary peasant?
Don&#39;t get me wrong, conditions for the peasants improved, but to say that they achieved the same levels as &#39;higher-ups&#39; is simply ludicrous.
You are correct. I take my initial statement back. No need to use such a hostile tone, comrade.

[1936]

OOOO now the commie is oppressing my freedom of speech......what a fucking coward....

Out of all the retarded capatilsts i have to say this quote makes UNDEFIABLY the funniest....

Maybe you should start a petition for human rights....when your posting on a forum on the internet. So the person who paid for and spent time building up this site&#33;...has to give you the right to free speech when using the services hes providing to you FREE OF CHARGE&#33;

Call CNN dude, this is just plain wrong&#33; THE INJUSTICE&#33;

[1936]

And deleting that post is OPPRESSING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH...because it disagrees with his.

Are these mean old bullys oppressing you?... if you dont want what your saying to be "constructively edited"....then go to a site where your views dont collide with those that created the site.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Thank you, but sparky left a long time ago, and hopefully won&#39;t be coming back.

[sparky44]

No I didn&#39;t....only in your dreams......

Remember that this is opposing ideaologies and I&#39;m allowed to have opposing ideas......