Yasser Arafat Dies

[BOZG]

Veteran leader Yasser Arafat dies

The veteran Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has died in a French hospital, nearly two weeks after being transferred from the West Bank.


Click here for full article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3984841.stm)

[che's long lost daughter]

Rest in Peace Arafat...may peace finally reign in the Middle East

[Hiero]

If someone finds a funeral list can someone post it.

[Guest1]

Cheers!

He began as a revolutionary, working very closely with alot of progressive forces int he middle east. He got power hungry, and wanted seperation rather than liberation.

It was he who injected the two state solution into mainstream political thought. That was never a viable solution, basically the same one Nelson Mandella was offered which he turned down.

He was quiet for years, nothing more than another borugeois leader using war as a pretext for control, while he made deals with Israel to guarantee himself a little fiefdom to rule.

One state, two peoples, through democratic proletarian solidarity is the only viable solution!

Only when he stopped being useful to Israel and the US did he begin speaking again, too little too late.

Good riddance! Two in one year with Reagan now, this might turn out to be a good year afterall :lol:

[Scott M]

take off you heartless bastard!!!!

allbeit, he remained power hungry, but the man was a martyr for his cause. in the eyes of adversity, he stood up and fough tfor what he believed in.

RIP Arafat.

scott

[choekiewoekie]

To be honest, i am afraid of what will happen now in the middle east. I hope a new leader will be chosen in peace, and without civilians being hurt. And ofcourse, will a new leader be taken seriously, and will he be seen as a partner in negotiations? I don't know what to think and what to feel exactly. Maybe some of you have a strong opinion about this?

[h&s]

I can't belive people could have supported this guy. He wanted Palestine to be separate from Israel - Two countries separated by race. As it has been said, he was just another borgeois leader, who we should be against.

Good riddance! Two in one year with Reagan now, this might turn out to be a good year afterall

I'm hoping for Thatcher to go by the end of the year as well! :lol:

[RedAnarchist]

Shes already 79, so hopefully a nice spell of cold weather should finish her off! :D

To get back to the subject of this thread, however, it is a shame Arafat has died. He may have been bourgoisie, but without him Palestine could become destabilised. Look how he managed to keep power for 40 years!
Israel might take advantage of any power vacuum or instability to crush the Palestinian people.

[Invader Zim]

Tell me, in his time at the top, what did he actually achieve? A Palestinian state? Liberation? A lot of hot air?

I think the latter.

[Intifada]

He made the Palestinian plight an issue.

He made the world realise their struggle for freedom and justice.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 04:15 PM
He made the Palestinian plight an issue.

He made the world realise their struggle for freedom and justice.
The "Palestinian plight" has been a major, well covered, issue sinse the 40's. He made the world realise nothing it did not already know.

[Red Heretic]

Any word on how exactly the new leader is to even be chosen?

I'm guessing Israel is going to do it for them...

[hawarameen]

an insignificant man, he didnt do anything that inspired anyone

[PRC-UTE]

11 November 2004
Irish Republican Socialist Party

IRSP EXPRESS SOLIDARITY WITH PALESTINIANS IN THE WAKE OF ARAFAT'S DEATH

Despite supporting the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine over
his Fatah movement, the Irish Republican Socialist Party took the occasion
of the death of Yasser Arafat to reiterate its solidarity with the struggle
people of Palestine. In a statement from the IRSP's International
Department, spokesperson Peadar Baile said of Arafat's death in Paris at
the age of 75;

"Arafat has long been a symbol for the struggle of the Palestinian people,
both within their homeland and abroad. And, because he is such a symbol,
the IRSP believes it is important to take this occasion to reiterate our
solidarity with the Palestinian people, in their struggle for national
liberation and socialism in Palestine.

"Arafat was also a scapegoat for the Zionist occupying Palestine and their
American puppet-masters. In response to their own propaganda, rather than
political reality, Arafat had been held personally accountable by US
imperialism and the Zionists, for the breakdown of peace talks and the
continuing initifada. The reality was that Arafat had long been prepared to
compromise and capitulate to Zionism on most key issues for years and, far
from being the revolutionary voice of Palestine, represented the reformist
section of the Palestinian community.

"The Zionists and their American allies also held Arafat responsible for
the continued use of suicide bombing attacks on the Zionists, when it was
clear that their destruction of the Palestinian Authority and undermining
Arafat left him unable to control the tactics of Hamas or various militant
factions within the PLO, despite his own desire to reach an accord with
Israel, regardless of the cost. The reality is that it was Ariel Sharon who
personally and deliberately provoked the outbreak of a renewed initifada
with his visit to Temple Mount. Moreover, it was the Zionists complete
failure to negotiate in good faith and to meet their obligations under the
Oslo Accord that caused peace talks to collapse.

"We in the IRSP, therefore, raise our voices in solidarity with the
Palestinian people and we pay tribute to Arafat, as a symbol of their
continued struggle for national liberation and social justice. With
Arafat's death causing him to leave the political stage, the Palestinian
people will be searching for new leadership. We encourage them to recognise
that nothing will be changed through attempts at compromise and
conciliation towards the Zionists. The Zionists will never respect
Palestinian sovereignty. The Way Forward, as the PFLP have said, lies
through the defeat of Zionism and the establishment of a unified, secular,
democratic, and socialist Palestine.

He concluded, "Accordingly, we in the IRSP do not mourn the end of the
undemocratic and reformist tactics of Arafat, but we grieve at the sense of
loss experienced by the people of Palestine and we salute their
determination in carrying their struggle forward in the wake of Arafat's
death."

ENDS

[inquisitive_socialist]

I must agree with intifada. Though Arafat was a member of the ruling class, it was only because he was alive that much attention was payed to the area. Some may feel he brought nothing new to anyones attention buti feel that without a voice of resent, even a quiet one, the isreali army would have forcefully expanded the range of their riegn of terror. to say that the world is better of without Arafat is like saying the world is better of without Mother Teresa. Also, its sad that so few realize that the Palestinian people truly are one the oppressed, the proletariat. Only in Isreal can you build a wall on your neighbors land and claim it as your own. Only in Israel do protesters with rocks get fought back by tanks and assualt helicopters. the israeli domination of the paelstinian people is disgusting. They claim a land that was never theirs!

[commiecrusader]

The Palestinian President was suggesting on BBC radio 4 that an interim governing council would take power for the time-being, and then there would be elections to decide a new leader, either in the next twelve weeks or twelve months I can't remember.

Thing is, it's gonna get nasty in the Middle East now cos Ariel Sharron is having a problem retaining support at the moment too... I think it's fair to say it's probably going to get worse before it gets better...

RIP Arafat, hope not too many more of your people have to die.

[cubist]

tis a shame, as much as it is no loss,

just need the rest of the religious political figureheads to hurry up and die

[Reuben]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 09:06 PM
tis a shame, as much as it is no loss,

just need the rest of the religious political figureheads to hurry up and die
what an idiotic comment - arafat - while personally religious - represented a bulwark of secular politics against the intentions of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

[cubist]

i have no time for religion, arafat could have done alot more to stop hamas,

whilst he was by far the most crucial member of the isreali/palestine peace process, he no where near did enough to protect innocent isrealies from suicde attacks from hamas,

the death of religious poltical figure heads is always a good thing not an idiotic thing, i wish reliigon was dead, politics and religion are seperate entities, together they are the biggest problem.

arafat was no angel don't kid yourself,

[*~Silver-Back~*]

The problem was that the Israelis banned the PA Officers and Police and Soldiers from carrying their weapons in the cities so how are the PA supposed to stop Hamas and the other groups when they have guns smuggled in? It's as if they were saying stop the relgious extremists with your fists against their high velocity bullets. :huh: Anyways, the fact is that Arafat despite his hot air and what not...his work as a youth in the PLO against the Israelis is what made him famous with the Palestinian people. As well many people will agree that though he was not a good stateman he had undoubtable support from the majority of the World for the just struggle. A statesman for a stateless people...may you rest in peace and may my Palestinian brothers forge on towards the vision of their future state.

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 12:14 PM
to say that the world is better of without Arafat is like saying the world is better of without Mother Teresa.
I recall reading on politicalcompass.org that Mother Teresa visited Haiti and praised the reactionary Duvalier regime. <_< I don&#39;t see how someone like that could be such a loss.

To get back on topic, while I&#39;m not that informed on the issue of Palestine, I basically agree with Che y Marijuana, aside from our emotional reactions to the event. I agree Arafat was a traitor, but I&#39;m not in total elation about his death like CyM is. I feel sort of stunned because it is such a historical moment, but I really don&#39;t feel happy or sad about it.

[inquisitive_socialist]

She also spent her whole life helping others, andshe never attmepted to convert anyone, all she did was go to help, heal, and give. To say that the death of Mother Teresa was no loss is horrible. Nad if you want to qoute PolitComp, they also say Che himself was known to have promoted the use of toxic gas on the native African tribes while fighting in Africa. He said it had quite effective results.

[redtrigger]

RIP Arafat.

Now on to business, did anyone else catch the little detail about Israel denying his death wish. He had a sight in Israel, it was either of religous or personal importance to him. In any case they denied and now he is being buried in a house of his or somthing, the Palestinians have already commisioned someone to make a monument of it. May it inspire more to liberate Palestine.

[refuse_resist]

Right now all we can do is hope for the best. With Arafat out of the picture, hopefully the Palestinians will become aware of what was going on when he was still alive and in power and learn from his mistakes.

[Intifada]

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

It is because of resistance by the Palestinians, led by people such as Arafat, that the Arabs are not "scurrying around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle".

Anyone who says Arafat did nothing for the Palestinians is a fool. Yes he was corrupt, but he has done probably more than anyone in the world for the people of Palestine.

[Individual]

He has died, no love or shame, just died.

[h&s]

Didn&#39;t arafat support Hussein&#39;s invasion of Kuwait? So much for supporting the liberation of the people - he only did that in Palestine to try and grab power for himself.
http://www.ilvangelo.org/news/immagini/arsad4.jpg
(Sorry, it was the best picture I could find - I have seen better ones on the TV)

[Hiero]

Does anyone know if Fidel Castro will attend the funeral.

[Pete]

Kuwait only exists so that Britain could remain in control of some oil fields after Iraq became independent...

On Arafat, it is good that he died, though I am not celebrating it for the same reason that it will be good when Castro dies (and I will not celebrate that either). Change is needed and when one man dominates the political scene for decades without and chance of his removal then there is no democracy, no republic, no liberty (liberty means freedom under just laws, whereas freedom is freedom from the laws. I include mores, taboos, ect under "laws"). It is good that he took so long dying in Paris, to create that atmosphere of change. He became a figure head, and the power shifted from his position. It is like how the govenor general officially is the most powerful person in Canada, but in reality merely signfies, albeit in an archaic manner, the power that is truly found in the people.

I won&#39;t go so far as to hope for peace; hoping for peace is naive. I hope, instead, for resolution and the end of an oppressive Israeli regime (lets see Sharon try to remove settlements, even a few, and see the Israeli system remain standing).

-Pete

[1949]

Originally posted by inquisitive_socialist+Nov 11 2004, 06:09 PM--> (inquisitive_socialist &#064; Nov 11 2004, 06:09 PM) Nad if you want to qoute PolitComp, they also say Che himself was known to have promoted the use of toxic gas on the native African tribes while fighting in Africa. He said it had quite effective results. [/b]
Where? I don&#39;t remember that at all. Not that it matters to me anyway, because I think of Che as a revisionist either way.

Here&#39;s something interesting Sensitive posted at E-G. It&#39;s from the Communist Party of the Philippines, which I assume is the same one leading the People&#39;s War there. I don&#39;t know if I totally agree with it, but it&#39;s just interesting.


> Information Bureau
> Communist Party of the Philippines
> Press Release
> November 12, 2004
>
> CPP pays tribute to PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat
>
> The Communist Party of the Philippines today paid tribute to
> Palestinian
> Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Yasser Arafat.
> Following is the
> CPP&#39;s statement:
>
> Yasser Arafat will continue to inspire the Palestinian
> people to
> struggle for their liberation
>
> Communist Party of the Philippines
> November 12, 2004
>
> The Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) expresses its
> profound
> solidarity with the Palestinian people as they grieve over
> the passing
> of Chairman Yasser Arafat, leader of the Palestinian
> Liberation
> Organization (PLO) and president of the Palestinian state.
>
> For the past four decades, Chairman Arafat worked hard to
> unite the
> Palestinian people under the banner of the PLO, participated
> in their
> guerrilla war, represented and defended the Palestinian
> cause in the
> field of international diplomacy, and served as a symbol and
> inspiration of the Palestinian people&#39;s militant struggle
> for
> liberation against US-Israeli occupation and oppression.
>
> Chairman Arafat&#39;s passing will not at all signal the decline
> of the Palestinian people&#39;s ardent desire for freedom.
> Neither does it
> weaken their capacity to carry out an all-out armed
> revolution against
> the US-supported Israeli occupation of Palestine. In fact,
> Chairman
> Arafat&#39;s death, which was a direct consequence of his
> detention at
> his Rammalah office during a prolonged siege by Israeli
> forces, is now
> firing up the anger of the Palestinian people and militating
> them to
> further intensify their struggle.
>
> The need to wage militant struggle is underscored by the
> escalation of
> violent attacks by Israeli forces against the Palestinian
> people in the
> hope of driving them away from their homeland. At the
> prodding of US
> imperialism, the Israeli state has swung further and further
> to the
> right, with the most rabid reactionaries at the helm of
> power. They
> launch attacks against the Palestinian people with impunity,
> emboldened by increased military and financial aid from the
> Bush
> government.
>
> In intensifying their struggle for liberation, the
> Palestinian people
> will always draw inspiration from Chairman Arafat, as well
> as from the
> memory of the thousands of Palestinian martyrs who have
> valiantly
> fought to realize their dream to liberate their homeland.

hammer&[email protected] 12 2004, 06:00 AM
Didn&#39;t arafat support Hussein&#39;s invasion of Kuwait? So much for supporting the liberation of the people - he only did that in Palestine to try and grab power for himself.
I don&#39;t support Saddam Hussein, but let me lay out a few points here so you can see the issue from another angle:

1) Kuwait is historically part of Iraq, and was stolen from them by British imperialism when the rest of Iraq gained independence. Hussein was not the first Iraqi leader who attempted to reunite Kuwait with Iraq; the bourgeois-nationalist government of Abdul Karim Kassem claimed it in 1960.

2) After the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980&#39;s, Iraq was severely weakened, and Kuwait exploited the opportunity to illegally venture into Iraqi territory to do illegal oil drilling. So the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq was partly an act of self-defense.

3) The Islamic Republic of Kuwait is a brutal, reactionary theocratic regime whose Emir personally owned 200 chattel slaves at the time of the Iraqi invasion. Compare this to Hussein, a secular leader whose policies on the environment, education, health care and women were some of the most progressive in the Middle East.

Thanks to J.Jordan (Bolshevika) for some of that information.

[pandora]

Yasser Arafat, may you go to a good new home. A difficult struggle when someone wants to commit genocide on your people, takes your land without paying you back, and imprisons and tortures your people on a daily basis you get a little pissed off.

You know I&#39;m from an Arab Jewish family that&#39;s Americanized, but this shit with Isreal has to stop.

They need to stop the garbage, capiche?

It&#39;s not cool. Now motherf#@&#036;()&#036; Bush thinks he&#39;s going to take over Palestine and turn into a state the size of Rhode Island filled with maquidoras and workers working like slaves he&#39;s got another thing coming, the Middle East won&#39;t stand for it.

He&#39;s already on shaky ground for the crap he&#39;s pulling in Falluja killing the first born son of every family, what does he think he&#39;s some kind of antichrist the Son of a *(&#036;_.

How does Tony Blair sleep at night letting this gang of thugs force him to go along with their bidding while meanwhile the Middle East is about to explode.

Does he kiss his kids with the mouth that kisses Bush&#39;s *ss. "Sorry kids about your future, but daddy wanted to make a buck."

Look Arafat wasn&#39;t a saint by any means, you know I see less and less differences between the crime families and the governments these days. Sharon tried to wack his ass, he evaded capture. That should be good enough for you John Wayne&#39;s out there. If any of you had ever had to live a day in that man&#39;s shoes especially under attack you&#39;d defile yourself.

Of course you also wouldn&#39;t condone a lot of his mob like actions. I don&#39;t condone them either but when you surrounded by other crime families and that&#39;s how business is done, you go weak they&#39;re going to wack your ass.

Come on let&#39;s be real. I think he was a real ass for not being more supportive of other ethnicities in the area prior to the new Jewish State, they could have supported the Palestine cause. Arab Christistines and Jews among them.

Also the suicide bomb thing is weak, he needed to be more of a diplomat a long time ago. Yeah like the mafia you can&#39;t prove it, and true most were other groups he just had ties too, whatever. There&#39;s also a lot going on with Lebanon, etc.

He did have to train troops with the PLO, I don&#39;t think Che would have endorsed a lot of his tactics because they increased public resentment, and not doing such things and building public support in Isreal for Palestine state was very important.

Also the assination in the early days of any Palestine leader who endorsed admitting a Isreali state was short sighted.

That all being said, I think everyone just wants peace on the Palestine side, but land too.

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 01:41 AM
I recall reading on politicalcompass.org that Mother Teresa visited Haiti and praised the reactionary Duvalier regime. <_< I don&#39;t see how someone like that could be such a loss.


It&#39;s called politics in this situation it wasn&#39;t to make a dollar, she wanted to most likely start a hospital or mission to actually help starving people there and had to kiss that (&#036;) ass to make it happen, that&#39;s different than Blair.

I hate to tell ya but Mother Theresa wasn&#39;t all powerful she was a tiny little old woman who had to play the game to do her Robin Hood act, and the Pope and their cronies weren&#39;t all that supportive.

How do you walk into Haiti and start feeding people, eh smart guy, with out juntas okay? Let&#39;s see ya try

[il Commie]

Arafat was, though being a petty-bourgeoise and a terrorist at certain periods of time, a good palestinian leader of peace and national liberation. His death is a lost for humanity.

On the 50&#39;s, when the world forgot about the palestinians, Israel denied the existance of a palestinian nation and the arab rulers used puppet palestinian leaders for their interests - Arafat founded the Fateh under the Slogan "free gun - free voice".

He was a fighter against the israeli occupation and the arab regimes who betrayed the palestinian struggle. At times he used the wrong ways of terror against civillians, but on the last decades he was against this method of struggle and condemed it. He represented a free palestinian voice, and because of that he is considered by many palestinians the father of their nation.

Yasser Arafat supported on the last decades the best solution for the israeli-palestinian conflict (democratically speaking) - a free palestinian state on the green line, a palestinian capital in East Jerusalem and the right of return for the refugees. He didn&#39;t fall for the israeli-american pressure to leave 80% precent of the settlers under israeli control, to call Abu-Dis (a neighborhood near Jerusalem) "Jerusalem" and make it the palestinian capital and give up the right of return. No palestinian leader will do it.

Arafat stands for me in one line with Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King.

http://www.aljabha.org/q/images/arafat440.jpg


Today Abu-Ala (prime minister) and Abu-Mazen (president) run the Palestinian Authority. Elections - in 60 days. Lets hope that Israel will be pressured to let the palestinians to run well organized elections, and that his death will be the end of the "no partner" excuse and the begining of a peace process - from bitter will come sweet.

[Guest1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 05:10 PM
what an idiotic comment - arafat - while personally religious - represented a bulwark of secular politics against the intentions of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
Agreed, while I dislike the man, he represented the secular movement in Palestine.

He also did do something for the Palestinian people, and was a hero. Until his involvement, Israel wouldn&#39;t even admit there was a Palestinian people, and the world was not paying attention.

He did some very important things, and good things. That doesn&#39;t excuse the last 10 years though.

[1949]

pandora:

"Feeding people" doesn&#39;t neccesarily lead us closer to socialism and communism.

There was actually a Haitian Maoist group in the 1980&#39;s which was affilated with the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement. I didn&#39;t see them kissing up to Duvalier.

Although, to be fair, the Political Compass website said Mother Teresa also visited the "dictatorship" in Albania, which was socialist, at least until 1978.

Anyway, I feel I&#39;m dragging this thread off-topic, and, to be honest, I really don&#39;t know shit about Mother Teresa besides that little bit on the Political Compass site, so I shall shut up about her after this post.

Edit: To go back to a point someone else made:


Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 06:09 PM
Nad if you want to qoute PolitComp, they also say Che himself was known to have promoted the use of toxic gas on the native African tribes while fighting in Africa. He said it had quite effective results.
This is ridiculous. I&#39;m retaking the test right now, and Che was one of the choices, but if you had actually taken the test, you would know that the correct answer to that question was Winston Churchill. Get your facts straight.

[1949]

Oh, and one more thing I forgot. If you want to read about a true Palestinian hero who died this year, check this out: Remembering Farouk Abdel-Muhti (http://rwor.org/a/1257/farouk.htm)

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

R.I.P

[Maynard]

to say that the world is better of without Arafat is like saying the world is better of without Mother Teresa
Mother Teresa, to put it bluntly. was no big loss, not only did she hang around dictators, as 1949 has pointed out. She also defended convicted fraudster Charles Keating who had cheated thousands of people out of their life savings, while providing shoddy and primitive medical care in comparison to the millions upon millions she received, which did not use any pain relievers and was a religious fundamentalist, who tried to get Ireland to contuine banning divorce, for instance. Also someone who has said that the suffering of the poor is beautiful.

See: The Missionary Position By Christopher Hitchens

and http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html

Anyway, I care more about the deaths of Palestinian civilians, than that of Arafat. He was just one person and while, maybe at the start had some redeemable qualities, he descended into a fairly corrupt billionaire who only had his eyes on power. I&#39;m not happy he died, I don&#39;t really feel happiness when anyone dies and I recognize he is still revered in much of Palestine but I don&#39;t think his death is a blow for Palestinians in a substantive way. The Struggle must continue on for a just solution for all Palestinians and the end of occupation.


Does anyone know if Fidel Castro will attend the funeral.
I don&#39;t think so. Cuba is holding 3 days of mourning though, I do believe.

[DaCuBaN]

tried to get Ireland to not ban divorce

Umm... Typo, surely?

[h&s]

Regardless of whether we love him or hated him (or both), just let him be now - he&#39;s dead.
RIP.

[DaCuBaN]

"...be kind to the dead: For one, we&#39;ll join them one day. For another, they outnumber us in the region of one to the power of infinity..."

Misguided though he may have been, he&#39;s gone. Rest in Peace.

[inquisitive_socialist]

Doesw anyone else realize that without the presence of a leader for the palestinian people, the israelis will just walk over them? It seems odd to me that so few of us realize whats going on in the middle east right now. I know the headlines are dominated by storiea about the US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Isaelis have been quietly building a wall around all land they consider "theirs&#39;. They have expanded the territory that is accepted to be theirs greatly, while only a minimum of protest is made. If memory serves me, the only thing done about was an attmept to get the Hague to declare it against human rights. How will that stop anyone with the US backing everything Ariel Sharon does?

[gaf]

sharon and bush and chirac and co...........etc etc
i will spit on your grave and piss on it......no offence (you can do it over mine if i have one) .... :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[Reuben]

gaf before you post could you consider whether you are contibuting somehthing to politcal discussion before you post

[gaf]

ok the king is dead long live the king.......