Why i will be leaving Che-Lives on the 24th of June

[Kez]

Dear Comrades,

Although i wont be leaving till the 24th, i thought id write this letter in advance.

The past few months since october last year have been a very enjoyable time for me to learn how socialism has developed in the western world.
However, the way i see it, myself being on this board is neither constructive to myself or to others on this board.
As i believe i have matured, i have come to realise there are many more important things to do rather than make posts arguing with "comrades" who refuse to be active and instead sit here and talk of revolution.

I hope i can still stay in contact with some of the friends i have made here, and indeed maybe they also will learn that this place will not bring the revolution to fruit.

I will still try to use this forum as a tool for recruiting members to the YFRC/YFIS, and indeed the cause as a whole.

I wish you all good health!

Yours in the struggle
Comrade Yeghishe Charentz (Yeghishe being my real name)

[Hayduke]

Dear Yeghishe,

Im sorry to see you go,

You were one of the guys I looked up to when I first came
to this board and later on I always say you as a comrade.
And this will never stop.

Before I take any serious action like you did with
youth for revolutionary change, I wish to know every detail
about communism.

Kamo I hope to see you again,
but for now.

Goodbye comrade,

Bas

[Dan Majerle]

goodbye and goodluck comrade

[peaccenicked]

Kamo what are you on about. you are addicted to this board. See you soon. Lol

[CheGuevara]

Sounds like a good move! Good luck with the YFRC, as many differences as I may have with it. Adios Kamo.

[kingbee]

why leave? youve been here since probably day one, and on the old one too. you are probably one of the most active posters in the community. i think you staying would benefit us all, and you aswell.
i know we probably wont persuade you to stay, seeing as your mind is probably already made up.
good luck anyway, and i hope you reconsider

[Revolution Hero]

Good Luck!!!
!Hasta la victoria siempre!

[Reuben]

Goodbye comrade, sad that your leaving, though I WILL continue to know you as an activist in YFRC/YFIS.

Are you definitely going to leave?

You will be missed soarly on this board, you were one of the people here I when I came, really intelligent, always expanding our range of subjects.

Yours in eternal camaraderie,

Reuben

[Hattori Hanzo]

good luck, I have faith that you will keep working for the revolution

[Blasphemy]

goodluck comrade!

[Kez]

The reason i am going is the following
i dont believe discussing shit about haveing a fake party in the honour of cheG anythin of any importance to me.

I dont find this board beneficial to me, to the extent i will waste 1-2 hours a day here, when i could be in the real world actual doing something about justice etc

I hope some more may follow me in this route, and maybe use Che Lives as a socialising event.

When i first came to this board, i believed it was my route towards being an intellectual, speaking to the many comrades around the world.
How naive i was.
I have found nothing but debate between petty issues such as "who is a stalinist", "who is an anti-semite", "stalin is a bastard", "lenin is a bastard", "che is a homophobe".

Again i find this sort of discussion counter-productive,
instead i will go to real forums as in real life where people meet and discuss.

This forum has mutated into a place where people try and play a popularitry contest, while outside capitalism is raping OUR world

As i said, i will be here until the 24th, when my final exam finishes, then i will have enough time to organise events, rather than "talk talk talk".

Like many of my random statistics, i believe 95% of peple on this board wont do jack shit for justice, and 80% wont become effective fighters for the rest of their lives.

Che-lives has become a place where people can persuade themselves they are commies or socialists or fuck knows what they call themselves, in real terms they are champagne revolutionary who look at revolution as a romantic picture of a red atlas of communist countries.

Be realists my friends

Educate


Peace
Comrade Kamo

[revolutionary spirit]

but u also get people aren't aware and you can enlighten them.If you get pissed off with some of the posts then stop posting for a while.

Whatever you do good lukc but if you,after june 24th decide u want to come back and post then please do and don't let pride or anything get in the way.

[I Will Deny You]

Yeghishe - (that's a cool name, by the way) I never could figure out if you thought I was in that 95%, and to be honest I never really cared. But I always thought you were cool. Too bad you're going.

Yours in the deli struggle,
Lindsay

[RedRevolutionary87]

well...i agree with kamo...the board has somewhat deteriorated and turned kinda crapy and not worth debating in since everyone is only pointing fingers

[Reuben]

my apologies. I am genuinely sorry.

Although I think that the problem runs deeper than pointing fingers. I think maybe some of just talked about all we felt their was to talk about and then maybe the prominence of more trivial issues increased - I certainly feel that is the case.

Anyway, I hope that I have not contributed to tyour decision to leave I remain active in YFRC/YFIS and Youth Action for Palestine.

[anarhosocijalist]

Kamo you are a legend of this board.....
Good luck in yours future actions!!!!!

[Sasafrás]

Well, while Kamo's doing it, I guess I may as well as well. I don't know if I'll be back after this.. In a way, I feel that this is somewhat of a pointless waste of time and that I lot of people are immaturely "discussing" a revolution that, if left up to them, will totally be a failure. Call me a ***** if you will, it doesn't matter to me anymore. If anyone cares to stay in touch with me anymore, I'm on AIM, Yahoo, & MSN.

Eliminated personal information at user request -- Miles

[Hayduke]

First Kamo and now you rainbeaux.

The elite posters are leaving che-lives one by one.
I have sended you a personal email to say goodbye.

" Rainbeaux, at a time when you have nothing to do
then think of us and pay us a visit. "

Cheers

Bas

[Needssomeconvincing]

Good luck and good health comrade.

[revolutionary spirit]

So what people are abandoning ship when we get into a bit of stormy seas.Come on,if you're not happy with the set up or the people then u fucking fight to change it.Jesus how do you expect to make the worker's active when you leave like this?Work together,the internet can be used as a vital tool to alert people about what's going on in the world as much as a poster on a city street wall.Why go?Stay and work on different points of view.Unity.

[Kez]

there is nothing to unite over

what can we do here?
nothing but talk

ive had enough talk of revolution to last me a lifetime
nuf talk, time for action.

I hope others have been enlightened and will also leave for a more active socialist lifestyle, rather than convincing urselves that it is good to talk all the fuckin time.

This is directed to the people on the board who learn nothing from the site and are wasting their time, such as CheG, El Che, Red Celtic, and the likes.

Yours in Struggle
Comrade Kamo

[vox]

Such as El Che and RedCeltic, huh? Damn, I hope I'm included in that list as well.

Perhaps, before you go, you can enlighten us as to what a communist is. Was Engels a commie? He didn't fight in any revolution, did he? Fuck no. He owned a fucking factory. He was a capitalist. Tiny tyrants like you would call him a "champagne" socialist.

I've never like you, so I don't mind you going at all. Too bad you're waiting so long. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

vox

[CheGuevara]

Ouch, right in the heart ;) Well, with a capitalist-loving moderator such as ol' Malt Liquor, not much is going to happen here.

[pastradamus]

Yeah Kamo + rainbeaux,harsh shit.

Im pretty depressed with the folk on this site too...
I used to like the Che-lives of old.Not to offend ne new comers,peace.

But im also thinkin of leaving.even if just for a few weeks,some people on this site have lost all sence of realism in their hearts.Even simple morals pose a problem in the stalinist corner.
And anti-semitism has tightened its grip.

I Used to be a communist,then a marxist.Now social democracy seems to be the only thing worth wanting on the emerald isle.

if ne of ye guys wanna contact me then my msn messanger address in:[email protected]
AIM screenname: pastradamus174


COMPANÁCH PA.

[BOZG]

Even if you don't like what I stand for, it's still a shame that another comrade is leaving.

[peaccenicked]

I am finding it very hard to take this all seriously. The word childish comes to mind. The revolution? Where?
Our best chance for national revolution is probably in Turkey. So lets all go there and get arrested.
Do something!
The task at the moment is hardly involvement with the masses. At the most and the organised workers are having a hard time just keeping their traditions alive.
Staying afloat is the task and that just means for most of us sticking in there at the demos, the public meetings
and the bare routinism that on the whole is going through the motions.
The movement does not know how to pack a punch any more.
Why? The poverty of theory. The highest task of communists everywhere is to make clear where we stand in the world today and what is really going to improve our chances.
Doing what? Just routines. Have the faith that routine work, any old work will win. That is counter productive.
What is this bb. The centre of world communism, no.
Do we have any pretensions to have real influence. No,
we are not a political party or are we a policy forum.
This forum is an infoormal meeting place to 'waste' some
time on. It is like a friendly pub on the internet called Che-lives. People come here like instead of the pub or instead of a different crowd of freinds to resolve some of their political problems or just to have a laugh.
people lighten up.
Why is the point of handing in a resignation letter.
To get attention.
For what a political problem.
This why Kamo comes to the bb.
He has moan on this issue ever since he came here.
And he has wanted to get out.
If you want to become 100% full time professional revolutionary, good luck to you but 95% of that time is pure absorption of information and writing it up. It is a lonely job. The rewards are none and you feel out of sync with everybody else.
I think it is better to look around you first and look at what is needed first, then spend time because there is plenty of it, to match your talents with those needs.
and stop moaning at people you dont really know.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:26 am on June 9, 2002)

[pce]

ahh...the ongoing melodrama of the soap opera.

big deal. you don't need a "farewell" letter to leave. just leave. you don't need to leave permanently just to proove a point. just leave, don't leave, leave, come back, check in from time to time, don't...who cares? maybe you should add "why i will be leaving Che-Lives on the 24th of June" to your list of petty issues. (by the way i love the inclusion of the date, as if we'd all be biting our fingernails worried when the terrible day will come. ha.)

if you weren't so in love with yourself (and this board [on which many of the petty issues seemed to come up after your membership]) you wouldn't need to right a letter of farewell. in short: who gives a shit? just go.

by the way, petty issues go in the chit chat section, not the general political topics

i can't believe i actually responded to this post...

[CheGuevara]

By the way Kamo, gotta love the position of that organization you've teamed up with, the Youth For Interationalism Snobbism, err, Socialism (YFIS) , on Che Guevara and Cuba.

"The heroism of Guevara should not blind us to his theoretical bankruptcy. To endeavour to repeat in the countries of Latin America the policies of Castroism in Cuba, is to commit a crime against the international working class. The literature of Marxism is full of explanations as to the role of the different classes in Society: that of the proletariat, the peasantry, petty bourgeois and bourgeoisie. When he was murdered in Bolivia he was out in the middle of the jungle with a handful of peasant guerrillas. At the same time, the Bolivian working class was mobilizing in a massive movement in the cities. Genuine Marxists focus on the working class which is the only force on earth which can lead humanity to socialism."

To read the rest of this Trotskyist garbage, click below
http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/fa..._che_castro.asp (http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/faq/cuba_che_castro.asp)

[peaccenicked]

"To endeavour to repeat in the countries of Latin America the policies of Castroism in Cuba, is to commit a crime against the international working class''
What arrogant nonsense?
Trotsky did not write off the peasantry.

[peaccenicked]

Here is trotsky on the peasant war in China 1932.
''Occupying in daily life an intermediate and vacillating position, the peasantry at decisive moments can follow either the proletariat or the bourgeoisie. The peasantry does not find the road to the proletariat easily, but only after a series of mistakes and defeats. The bridge between the bourgeoisie and the peasantry is provided by the urban petit-bourgeoisie, chiefly by the intellectuals, who commonly come forward under the banner of socialism and even communism."

[Reuben]

Kamo, I dont what you think the rest of us are doing, but I am sure that many of our members are active outside this.

I have remained active in Cuba solidarity YAP etc. throughout my involvement in this board, and I am sure that there are many others who are active. WHen the stop the war movement was going on this was a vital network of information. I now hope to be involved in YFRC..

Anyway, what I am saying is that dont assume that by talking on a forum, we are doing this to the exclusion of all political activity.

FINALLY, you really should not forget where the basis of your movement came from. It came from an ideal network of socialists who you spent several months spamming:-)

If you want to leave, we will miss you but we cannt stop you, but please do not try to destroy this community by trying to cream off the 'elite' members, and by trying do not denegrate the work that we have all put in and will continue to put in to this community by patronising us about being enlightened.

I understand that you want to recruit but why must this be in competition with che-lives.

[Reuben]

P.S. I stand by what I said in my email to you, I do not dislike you at all and am grateful for what you have done here. Check my email.

(Edited by Reuben at 9:34 am on June 9, 2002)

[Maaja]

Of course Che-lives is not what it could (should?) be but I will definitely not leave the board. The main reason is that I don't know anybody at all 'in real life' with who I could discuss about socialism, communist leaders, who had even some similar thoughts with me. I am the memeber of the only Estonian leftist-green mailinglist but even there people aren't really left-winged. They do despise communism. It's even hard to find communist literature because now they don't publish it anymore and in used books stores they don't have those books published under the soviet rule. In general people just destroy those books and I have to admit that a big part of Soviet books were crap too...

That's why I won't leave. Che-lives is the only place where I can discuss, I mean really discuss and even only reading other people's posts makes me feel good. Suer, most of the people here will never really fight but I think that it's better to communicate with them than to live in a society where evrbody are living only to satisfy their greedy desires.

[Kez]

The reason i wrote this thread was to wake some people up, so as they didnt waste their time on here, and instead took up an active role.

WHY would i want attention from some1 who is the otherside of the globe, and who sits there all the time on the comp writing shit about, "what to wear on che guevaras birthday?" wtf, i dont NEED this.

The reason i wrote the date was so people wouldnt be nobheads when i continued posting until then, and then theyd start whinging saying "oh y havent u gone blah blah bullshit".

YFIS is not trotskyist although it does have such elements within it. Once the YFRC merges to become YFIS, we can challenge the whole structure of the group to what is more acceptable for all comrades.

Reuben matey, i dont think ive dissed anyone, not the cream of this board anyway by saying they do nothing.
I meant it as the people such as panama, or the such who do fuck all but try and increase their popularity.

I doubt to fuck i will be some sort of revolutionary, not for another 10 years at the least if that, but thankyou for confusing me to be such :)

It has been a pleasant learning experience on this board, and i hope you can all continue this road to know where in your "revolution".

I hope i can come back here now and again and maybe get some more fire in your bellies, thats if the champagne doesnt douse it out

Love and Peace
Comrade Kamo

[guerrillaradio]

Hmm...interesting. I think Vox has a point. I remember when you accused me of being "indoctrinated" and insulted me constantly on a thread in Theory when you tried to stand up for Stalin. Some Soviet apologists have difficulty in answering fact with fact. Go on then, create your revolution in Middle England then...but wait till you've done GCSE Chemistry first...

[Kez]

tell me about it, im gonna get fucked 2morrow in that exam aaaaaaaaah, ah well

for the 2nd time for all you blind people, i am and probably wont be a revolutionary, then again most ppl dont read the posts......

what vox sed sums up this forum in that its a place where angry nobodies can unite for FUCK ALL.

remember, everytime u make a shit post about something trivial, some kid in africa is dying coz u dont give the square root of a flying fuck

good night

[Valkyrie]

Ahh, Kamo, I know you Bop, so when you are bopping somebody in Africa is dying. But that doesn't stop ya!

Also, I've been writing a lot of shit on here lately. But, I've also been an active part of the movement for the past 17 years, and I've done ALL the various different demos and protests, and organizing for all the various causes, and will continue to do so, and that, my comrade, encompasses your whole entire life, plus a year or two. And I'm STILL gonna post shit here on the Che-lives site too.

So, like peacenicked said " Lighten up." Do what you can, but save SOMETHING for yourself. You are not going to go into the history books for freeing Africa or any other part of the world.

[Bakunjin]

Comrade Kamo
Tovarish Kamo
Croatian: Druze Kamo
Serbian: Druze Kamo
Yugoslav: Druze Kamo
Sretno! = GOOD LUCK!

Titoist goodbye from Croatia with a yugoslav partisan moto:
Death to fascism, freedom to the people!

[Valkyrie]

And actually Kamo, I have a lot of respect for you and I highly admire your efforts and what you've done with the YFRC. But, you're gonna burn yourself out before you even reach voting age. You gotta pace yourself for the long-haul.

Stick it out comrade. Peace.

[evil chris]

why on june 24th? why not now?

get ya coat lad

[death b4 dishonour]

Kamo/rainbeaux
sad to see you guys leave. wish you all the best

[Nateddi]

I have decided to continue the trend and take off myself.

I would like to thank everyone especially Malte for making this be a great community for me to be a part of. I have had a good 4-5 months as a member here. I will still stick around The Lyceum, and periodically at #marxchat on dalnet IRC. I may come back to the board, though not anytime soon.

Here are my contacts if you need them:
aim: nateddi76
icq: 161547197
email: [email protected]

(Edited by Nateddi at 11:57 am on June 10, 2002)

[Lefty]

good luck! Hasta la victoria siempre! I may be making a fool out of myself, but what is the YFRC?

[evile bstard]

thanks lefty, i was about to ask the same thing!!

[vox]

"what vox sed sums up this forum in that its a place where angry nobodies can unite for FUCK ALL."

You're still here?

What do you think this is? You seem to have somehow made the mistake of thinking that Che-Lives.com is a political organization. As far as I can tell, it isn't. Not at all. Unite? Under what banner? I'll make it simple so you can understand it: THIS ISN'T A POLITICAL PARTY.

This is a message board. See the difference? I'm doubting that you do.

I would NOT unite with you. I would NOT unite with the Stalinists here. I would NOT unite with the Leninists here. I would NOT unite with YOU, Kamo, ever. As far as I can tell, you're just an apologist for the worst abuses of the USSR (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=20&topic=10).

Personally, I applaud your decision. Go waste your time with your little club. At least then the board will have slightly less shit on it. I say the sooner the better.

vox

[El Che]

Kamo I really dont know what your babling about half of the time, and other half I just role my eyes over. I think you should join the circus.

[Kez]

Sadly Vox, it is clear that you are unable to follow threads and then u ask y i have asked such things and im debating within myself if i should bother explaining myself to someone who in actual fact is a true nobody.

DONT YOU FUCKING GET IT?!?!?!

YOUR A WASTE OF SPACE

in the true sense of the word, u'll talk and talk and talk until u drown in ur own bullshit.

The bit i was talkin about uniting was that there was nothing to unite over after some1 else previously sed we shoud unite, so here is proof u cannot follow a thread, and that u waste ur time trying to give me grief.

The funny thing is, ur making it easier for myself and other to leave this board, as the memories of the original board disappear, and are replaced by the pungent smell of vox's babbling anger.

:) <===this is a representation of my face, ie not one that would care if vox or indeed anyother tosspot loud mouth here (there are many here) were to get run over by a 16 wheeler truck, in fact i would piss myself laughing.

As for my contributions towards the YFIS (the group the YFRC is to merge with), they are now operating in pakistn to spread socialism, i dont see yourselves doing something.

Would you dare move from ur comfy chair to spread the word in a country where u can get killed for such activities?

i guessed not.

you my "friends" are the scum of socialism.
The people who will forever conform and yet say they resist.

It is unfortunate such scum attack me firstly for no good reason.

To the MAJORITY of the board who at least are not scum
Yours in The Struggle

Comrade Kamo

PS, Vox read the fuckin thread before your about to bullshit

[MJM]

Good luck to all of you who are leaving. Try and stop by and say hi from time to time.

[Hayduke]

The top posters fall one by one.

The board loses his glorious members.
We can just guess if the leaving will stop here.
Will it ?

Let me tell you all a little story:

" when I first cam here, there were glorious debates, every commie fought side to side against the cappies. "

" While I watched the debates and wonderfull information
of che guevara gathered by all the member I became impressed,
this was the board to join. "

" And when I joined things only became better, I became to know the members a bit better and felt part of the che-lives community. "

Yet it all changed.

We arent fighting side on side anymore. We are all against each ohter. God might know our goal, but I can't find it anymore.
We are the glorious debates ? THe only thing I see lately are topics like " who banned me to soc-cap, bastards ".
This board is going downhill and many members know it.
We arent a community anymore like we used to be.
We are all against each other today , at least so it seams.

Wich I could change it all but I can't.
Its not a one man job, but a community job.

Cheers,

Bas

[vox]

And what are you doing, Kamo?

Nothing but posting on a message board, that's what. You've got a little website where you ask people to buy books from Amazon.com, a company that is very much anti-worker, and you say you're doing something. You're a clown.

In fact, you've posted here a lot, haven't you, Kamo? Yes, you really have. Now, some might say you're just a loudmouth posting on a message board, not risking a damn thing.

Indeed, one doesn't know if you've done anything at all.

As a bonus, we get to see the true face of your "humanity," such as it is. Your a step below a capitalist, Kamo.

Fact is, you're just a blowhard teenager, aren't ya? Now the criteria for being a good Leftist is risking your life, huh? YOU'RE SO HARDCORE!!! Hee! Teenage clowns are so tiresome.

As for me not understanding the thread, I referenced the part where you MENTIONED ME BY NAME! You're not too bright, are ya? As evidence of that, I give you this wonderful quote:

"Sadly Vox, it is clear that you are unable to follow threads and then u ask y i have asked such things and im debating within myself if i should bother explaining myself to someone who in actual fact is a true nobody."

Huh?

Oh, and I don't think I asked why you asked such things. I think I called you a Stalinist sympathizer, which you are based on what YOU HAVE POSTED HERE BEFORE. See? It's all laid out there.

You know what the worst part is? It's that you don't even have a clue as to what you're talking about. You make things up, pretend to somehow psychically "know" where I stand and what I do, when you don't have one shred of credible evidence about anything. Rather, you make things up. You don't even have the ability to say that you don't like me because I said I was glad you're going. Nope. You can't even do that. You have to make stuff up and attacke that instead, otherwise, all you have are insults.

Go on, Kamo, scat. Get lost. Goodbye. Take your authoritarian bullshit and fuck off.

vox

[CheGuevara]

Not to take either side, as I don't really agree with everything either Kamo or Vox is saying, but to be honest, it seems like Kamo has really been posting far less since he started the YFRC.

[Kez]

Pity Vox has to lower herself/himself/itself (considering scum does not have a gender), to petty name calling, which one can only reflect back, as one cannot speak to the death, in the same way one cannot talk logic to Vox.

The fact that ive said im a trotskyist/leninist, surely means that i cant be , and im not a stalinist, but then again vox is thick as shit.

I agree that i shouldnt use Amazon to sell books, but i have told many people that they should use "WellRed" where its a commie book place.

I have never told anyone to buy a book from the amazon thing at the YFRC site.

And the fact you call YFRC a "club"?
Would you consider it a club when it has ACTIVE branches in:
UK
USA
UAE (thats united arab emirates Vox, no need to bring atlas out)
Armenia
Russia
Canada
Italy
Ireland and Austria are emerging

That my friend is not a "club", and also the fact that the biggest youth socialist organisation in the world has emailed ME to ask to merge, means we can make change.

Sorry i dont go fightin in the jungle at the age of 16, like i should coz ive sed im a revolutionary.....HOLD ON, FOR THE THRID FUCKING TIME YOU BLIND ****, IVE SED IM NOT A FUCKIN REVOLUTIONARY, AND U MY FRIEND ARE A SILLY **** WASTING EVERYONES TIME, NOW FUCK OFF AND ROT IN UR LEATHER CHAIR DRINKING YOUR CLIQUOT CHAMPAGNE AND CHOKE ON YOUR CAVIAR YOU NOBRASH!

Unless you wish to get more grief off myself, then i suggest you shut your fat gob, and sit down, read a book, and then once uve reached the age of 12, then come back hey?

Comrade Kamo

[Menshevik]

Stay well, Kamo.

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 11:35 am on June 10, 2002
As for my contributions towards the YFIS (the group the YFRC is to merge with), they are now operating in pakistn to spread socialism, i dont see yourselves doing something.[hr]I don't know if this is addressed to vox only, or if it's addressed to everyone who you have ever called a "champagne revolutionary" (including myself). So indulge me dammit, because I'm replying anyway!

There won't be socialism in Pakistan for a long, long time. They're the US' new butt buddy. When I look at Pakistan I see a country that could definitely use a good bit of socialism, but they're feuding with one of their fellow nuclear powers right now and the situation is pretty grim. Wouldn't it be a better use of your time to try to stop a nuclear conflict? And even if it turns out that there won't be a nuclear conflict at all, arms reduction is nothing if not a worthy cause. Here's something else to think about: Pakistan is bending over for America and America claims its values include capitalism and democracy. While this makes it harder than ever to start a socialist revolution in Pakistan, there may never be a better time to pressure the American government into forcing some democratic reforms through the Pakistani government. I honestly can't remember whether or not you're one of my fellow "democratic softies", but even if you prefer a socialist dictatorship to a socialist democracy it's time you face facts that there won't be any kind of socialist government in Pakistan anytime soon and hope for democracy, which depending on each individual's value system is either second best or even better. So no, you do not see me trying to spread socialism into Pakistan. But as my fellow American "democratic softies" may know, there is a letter campaign to try to get Bush to stop being so much of a hypocrite and actually practice what he preaches. This includes a fairer government in Pakistan, among many other things.[hr]Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 11:35 am on June 10, 2002
Would you dare move from ur comfy chair to spread the word in a country where u can get killed for such activities?

i guessed not.[hr]Aren't you typing this from England? And in my humble opinion, some of the most important leftists ever spent a great amount of time in chairs. The often-misinterpreted Marx spent time in chairs, no? Even Che spent time in chairs! Whether they were comfortable or not is something that I don't know.[hr]Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 11:35 am on June 10, 2002
you my "friends" are the scum of socialism.
The people who will forever conform and yet say they resist.[hr]Conform to what? Resist what? Conform to the notion that democracy is something that I should pressure my president to encourage? No apologies whatsoever.

Lindsay

[lacha]

cheers!

[peaccenicked]

Anybody got any champagne?

[vox]

Know what? Screw it. Anyone taken in by Kamo's out and out lies is someone I really don't want to like me, anyway.

vox

(Edited by vox at 9:24 pm on June 10, 2002)

[Michael De Panama]

I'm with Vox. Good riddance, you bitter asshole.

"I meant it as the people such as panama, or the such who do fuck all but try and increase their popularity. "

I've sensed a hostility towards me coming from you from the very begining. You have yet to prove my ignorance on the subject of Stalinism. You have not told me in what way I was wrong or in what way I was misinformed. All you do is complain. You're just a whiny little asshole.

I don't know what your fucking problem is with me. I remember reading in another post that you despised Stalinism. I assume the possibility that it was just copied and pasted there from another source Peaccenicked-style. If you really are anti-Stalinist, you sure go out of your way to defend them.

Tell me how IN ANY WAY have I said ANYTHING wrong about Stalin. Tell me what has made you throw this little fit at me. I assume you will just say something like, "You know fuck all about Stalin". Tell me how I'm ignorant, specifically. Or at least come clean and tell me that you are a Stalinist yourself. Because I'm sick of your shit.

Good riddance.

[peaccenicked]

copy and pasting, is hardly a crime except if you claim it as your own. I have never done that conciously and have made errors due to the stress of being harassed, but if someone says something in clear and distinct manner, it is pointless not to use their words.
As for Kamo, he has faults and I cant see for the life of me why he is picking on you, perhaps it is to do with part of his lack of clarity on stalinism.
This whole idea that people are not 'doing things'.
How on earth does he know what pepole are doing and what business of his is it what people are doing.
Where is the thread that advocates do nothing.
What is the point of handing in a letter of resignation to make a stupid childish point.
Protest against comrades!
The point however comrades is to inspire people not to piss them off.
Learn some social skills, make mistakes , learn, find out
what you can about yourself. Let other people take care of themselves unlesss they ask for help.

[Field Marshal]

that's a damn good post peacenicked.

So what's the link to the YFRC site?

[Lefty]

even tho kamo tends to lean more towards a dictatorship sometimes, he is still cool. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP! Vox, please follow suit with Natteddi and Kamo and leave. You waste time. And Kamo...why so bitter? Just because we dont want violent change to tarnish our (leftist in general) reputation in the eyes of the media, which could be our greatest ally (see Ruckus Org.) do you have to trash us as armchair revolutionaries? Because i assure you, even tho we may be "champagne revolutionaries", we still help the cause more than Stalinists wanting to revolt and make the U.S more of a dictatorship than it already is.

[GWF]

I'd never thougt that people would exctually go here! I thought everybody here talked about communism/socialism, and what they did outside of this forum, they should know that theirselfs. I don't like that La Rainbeaux and Kamo are leaving, but I have a feeling you'll be back (we all hope so) except for vox, but for what he said here, you should ban the motherfucker!! O, yes where can I get hooked up with the YFRC/YFIS! I'd like to do something too!

(Edited by GWF at 8:33 am on June 11, 2002)

[Kez]

the UK branch of YFRC is www.yfrc.org.uk
YFIS site is www.newyouth.com

I dont think im bitter, just pissed off coz so many people live on opinions and not hard facts.

When i sed friends in reference to SCUM i meant friend, as in Vox is scum, no1 else on this board is worthy of such a title.

I dont think there should be a violent revolution, but am strongly against people no taking action, being in the form of protest or whatever.

Sitting here looking at pictures of Che/Lenin or whoever wont bring up the revolution is what im sayin.

You know what would be nice?
If there was a global communist revolution in 30 years time and we all came back here, haha, that would be the bollocks, sweet. Then again i'd have shot vox for being a counter revolutionary scumbag ;):)

I have only copied and pasted News, ive even left the fuckin name of the writer on, so maybe if you could be arsed to sit up and click that mouse button, you could go to the site and get involved, how naive i was hey Vox?

I dont trash all of u as Armchair REvs, but Vox and a few others such as the pleasant but uneducated Panama, who will forever talk and critisise.

Like in Animal farm, the revolution came and went, but the smaller pigs were hiding when the rest of the farm were fighting.

In my view, if you have not read about summit, then u cant comment, when people read Stalinism, and then say it is shit, THEN I WILL HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR THEM, just as people read about Che and diss/adore him.

You cant base the whole of stalinism on how he fucked up the purges which we all know was a complete disgrace.

Comrade Kamo

[libereco]

I usually wouldn't even get involved in such a debate...I think I shouldn't even have opened this thread.

Anyway, I'm with Vox in a way...

If you want to leave - leave.
If you want to do something for the movement - do it!

There is no need to come to a messageboard where many people come to first get in touch, and maybe get educated about socialism and tell all the members they are wasting their time.
I don't know how much time you spent here, but the half hour a day I read stuff on here is not a waste in my eyes.

This is just a message board, but i think someone took it a wee bit too serious.

I don't value your posts much either...to be honest.
You posted some interesting things about the Armenian Genocide, i'll give you that. But most other stuff was stalin apologist, authorian blabber that I personally can not relate to at all.
You are also a very insulting person, and i'll tell you what, someone that hits as many people in the face as you better be ready to accept one or two hits himself - you show weak character by getting so fucking enraged over things on this messageboard.

Anyway, I gotta take a shower and run.

[Blasphemy]

that's rough, man.

[libereco]

i'm just a bit suprised someone running into a group of people with his eyes closed and his arms spread hitting people to the ground gets so enraged when someone returns a punch.

but you know a guy tells us to not divide the left by attacking stalinists (fucking facists) and then starts a topic arguing that Anarchists are backstabbers. what the fuck?

but you know, i'm just one of 'em backstabbers...


I'm not really as mad as i might come off by the way...I'm in a really good mood.

[evil chris]

yes Field Marshal et al, if you'd like to join the YFRC/YISF/KKK vist the site or email Komrade Kamo at [email protected] with your name, address (for flyers,hardcopy newsletter and GCSE revsion notes) and please make it clear if you would like to donate to or become a branch organiser for the Youth For Revolutionary Change.

I would hate to overstep the line here, but what have you (and the Kult) actully done.From our conversations you've been _distintincly_ nebulas about this.It seems like the YFRC is like Nike.Everyone knows the name but they don't actully do anything.
The only action we ever talked about was May Day in which you launched into a huge tirade against me because i wasn't going to to commute to london to protest and instead was doing something in Leicester.I was a "champage revolutionary!!" (but i don't drink guv!) and i was "stabbing your comrades in the back" because i wouldn't cough the 31 quid to get there and instead wanted to raise some awareness in my home town.
The random insults lasted for about a week till i found out from someone that you have decided to do a "de-centralised protest" and stay in deepest Cheshire.
That is the only action i have ever heard you or any of the YFRC members i speak to reffer too.In fact the group seems to be hemmorrageing members.Only three of the orgianal group that were about when you tired to sign me up are still in , one of them is you and i haven't spoken to Levi for ages.
The members list was somewhat amuseing too.You claimed to have in excess of a hundred members.I requested proof of this and i got a list of email address.Taking out your addy (which was repeted several times) mine! pete's and several other repeated addresses it totaled 62.I have yet to find time to contact the 62 to find out how many are paid up and how many you just spoke to in MSN chat once.
As noted above you do also have this really funny habit.You post lots of crap sayign how anarchists (ussally) are one of them enemy and how evil they are but then you spout off about trying to unify the Left.If you think about it, even unifying The Left is a nonsense which in it's self which would make me for one, very warey about your ideals.But i can't voice that because when i do i'm "Just trying to break up the left which people like me are trying to bring together! you just ***** and whine and never do anything to help!!"


in short, can i have a show of hands of people in the YFRC
What you've done
and why you joined the YFRC instead of maybe useing your common sense and gettin out to your community, linking with the groups there and ACTULLY DOING SOMETHING PRACTICALLY USEFUL!
It aint hard!
I'm a thick shit collage drop- out * and even i can do it!


*which insedently makes me a racist according to your man there.As are dustbin men by the by)

[revolutionary]

TavareeshKamo you are right more should be done than just argueing with each other.

But i think that rather than leaving this site the unification on this site should be used to make this site into an action one.

[Kez]

ITs a shame this place is now over run by anarchists, and im not bitter about that, its not my board, thats fine.

But for the people who dont think squatting in shithole is some sort of revolution will realise that anarchists have never produced the good, except in Spain, oh wait , no i remember, they disprupted the whole movement for their petty gain and gave the victory to the fascist ****s.
Well done, clap clap

The day the world become some sort of anarchist shithole i will eat my shoes.

It is funny how very few of the intelligenisia of the left is actually anarchist, and those who are actually are anarcho-communist. Nice to see how anarchists believe they can revolt by not workin within the system, and indeed lay about in the dirt.

Let us take Evil Chris, he couldnt take the shit of A-levels, and very socialist of him, went to work in the gambling industry, which ...hold ON!! isnt this the industry which ruins the lives of thousands of workers?
yes it is, and that helps the revolution?
No, i wont lower myself to Chris's tramp level and start talking of his "organisation" which does FUCK ALL.

now the YFRC, it was launched in 1st January, has sent numerous petitions out, and i know of at least 3 which have been filled out and given to local councillors with one of which with great effect in the Cheshire region (concerning the Cuban Blockade).

Each month we give out 1 petition on the back of the newsletter.

For a group of 6 months old i think this is very good.
I also believe the fact that members of YFRC hold regular protests (ask Reuben) outside the Israeli embassy and numerous vigils is also very good.

I also believe that a collection of YFRC representative outside the Turkish Embassy holding a proteest with the ARmenian Community is also good.

All this within 6 months and more, includin our participation on Mayday.
In my area i was able to hand out 100 leaflets to the youth of the region concerning the new mcdonalds, in London we had members in the Marches.

I hope this will be the last time any **** decides to bring up the issue of YFRC not being active.

Chris, i love the way you mocked me about my age concerning my exams. sorry im not a drop out, but i actually want a future, not to live in a damp apartment and work in a shithole gambling industry and claim fooling no1 that it is a good lifestyle, hey Chris?

Yours in Struggle
Comrade Kamo

[DORRI]

what do you reccomend us to do as a real active revolutionary?i'm agreed with you that posting doesnt destroy imperialism!(although it helps us to find revolutionary comrades from all over the world )
can we start something to struggle against imperialism seriously all together ? do you have any plan?
i think best you can do is trying to destroy colonizer monarchy in your country which i hope youre doing!

[Valkyrie]

Maybe you should leave then Kamo. But I highly object to Vox leaving as he's one of the rare rational voices on this site.

[Kez]

Theres no maybe about it, im leaving.
Paris i know my and ur views were better before this thread, but in noway am i oppossed to your personal views. :)

what was i gonna say? ah right...
how can Vox be rational when he says im a stalinist sympathyser.
If some1 sed to you, stalin raped babies, and you sed no he didnt, then according to vox ur a stalinist sympathyser. Stupid ****.

DORRI, what can you do? The most important thing (and this is what lenin did), is to combine action with literature. Its like subtitles or to a movement, if people dont understand literature is the way to teach them to understand.

Target your audience well, ie dont target conservative tosspots, but go to universities and get support there.

The only time I on behalf of YFRC went to a university in Keele (the keele university) i musta got like 20 supporters who lent their support to our movement.
20 people in solidarity with 1 persons new group. Just consider instead of me going, someone who was 20 went, and from a well know group such as YFIS, then maybe 50 people support.
If you were to get 50 peoples support from every university your talking about ALOT of support.

Comrade Kamo

[Valkyrie]

I know that Kamo, and I am as frustrated as you. I would love to see this movement move out of it's stagnancy and break open. I am screaming inside about people's compalaisancy. But, NOT of the people on this site. It's The other people, the herd of people who are apathetic and pretend to have no awareness whatsoever. Those are the people you should be mad at. :)

Peace comrade ....and don't isolate yourself.

[Anonymous]

just because i post here doesn't mean i am inactive to the "reveloution". screw you kamo

[Kez]

yes, u can go and "kill all the capitalists", which is funny coz again it proves ur all words no action.

Im not against the people on the site, but against their lack of actions.

You dont even need to be part of any "revolution", but just active resistance, most people cant even do that.
Theres proof of this as there are threads saying, "COKE TATES SO GOOD", and its like, why the fuck are you even here.

This is a good place for people to turn their words into actions.

And im not isolating myself, infact im getting out of the isolation of this website to my other comrades who are on the streets in the cold trying to spread the word.

Comrade Kamo

[Blasphemy]

i don't like you anymore, kamo....

[Reuben]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 3:42 pm on June 11, 2002
ITs a shame this place is now over run by anarchists, and im not bitter about that, its not my board, thats fine.

But for the people who dont think squatting in shithole is some sort of revolution will realise that anarchists have never produced the good, except in Spain, oh wait , no i remember, they disprupted the whole movement for their petty gain and gave the victory to the fascist ****s.
Well done, clap clap



Sorry to deviate, but I suppose the communists/soviet controlled army was not at all at fault. I do nt wish to diminish the heroism of members of the international brigade and similarly do want to dimiish the heroism of those in some of the smaller Trotskyist militias, but in the spanish civil war, the communists/soviets horded resources, giving them only to those groups that would join or fall into line and from what I know had battles with other militias. They did not try to ddo what was needed which was to build a united front against fascism

[Menshevik]

Everyone, its time to let bygones be bygones and wish Kamo happy trails.

no more bickering

[Anonymous]

blah blah blah. I am as active as i can be at my age. your so strange.

[Michael De Panama]

I dont trash all of u as Armchair REvs, but Vox and a few others such as the pleasant but uneducated Panama, who will forever talk and critisise.

Again, I would like specific examples as to what I am uneducated about. If I really AM uneducated, then spend your time educating me rather than whining about me.

In my view, if you have not read about summit, then u cant comment, when people read Stalinism, and then say it is shit, THEN I WILL HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR THEM, just as people read about Che and diss/adore him.

I've read plenty on Stalin. I've read his autobiography. I've read plenty of his speeches and assorted writings. Why the fuck don't you tell me in what ways I am being uneducated about Stalin. Do I have a false impression of him? I'd like to know. Because hey, maybe I don't know something. Maybe Stalin was in reality a jolly Santa Clause-like man who would take all of Russia to the candy store, planting flowers as he went, and singing upbeat songs about how much he loved human life.

You cant base the whole of stalinism on how he fucked up the purges which we all know was a complete disgrace.

Geez, did you not read any of my posts before you started flaming me? I remember only mentioning the purges while on the subject of racism. That's it. Now, there's a twenty something page thread about Stalinism that I created to explain why authoritarianism of any sort is nothing more than a recreation of the bourgeoisie.

Just in case you ignored me like you did in my last post, let me make this clear, idiot:

SPECIFICALLY EXPLAIN IN WHAT WAYS AM I IGNORANT TO THE SUBJECT OF STALINISM. WHAT EXACTLY HAVE I SAID THAT WAS FALSE?

You bitter fucking fool. Come down from your arrogant little throne. You haven't taught me anything in any of the posts I've ever read from you on this site. You haven't made me think about anything differently. You haven't brought anything important to this message board. You really aren't that special. Certainly not special enough to go around ordering others around. Just shut the fuck up. If you are going to leave, then leave. It's not like you bring anything too significant to this board. You're just an elitist asshole.

And if you aren't going to elaborate on what ignorance I have spoken, then stop making this claim. I still would like to know where the stick in your ass came from, but you probably just stuck it there yourself.

Just get out, you closet Stalinist.

[Michael De Panama]

Oh yeah, one more thing...


Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 8:05 pm on June 11, 2002

You dont even need to be part of any "revolution", but just active resistance, most people cant even do that.

Nobody "needs" to do anything you do or do not tell them, you fucking ****. Who do you think you are? Stalin?

(Edited by Michael De Panama at 10:07 pm on June 11, 2002)

[Anonymous]

with you all the way panama.

[evil chris]

"Then again i'd have shot vox for being a counter revolutionary scumbag"

shiiiit if being apposed to your "politics" is counter revolutionary then il be happy to be first up against the wall with vox.
mongolid.

"You cant base the whole of stalinism on how he fucked up the purges which we all know was a complete disgrace"

well if you can't judge a person on being personally responsible for the murder of so many innocent (not always the case though) people what can you judge then on? Some how the fubar economics and basically being an authoritarin state capitalist dictator seems to pale into insignificance against genocide,oppression and random murder.

"ITs a shame this place is now over run by anarchists"

is it? Are there that many anarchists? maybe there is a groundswell of libertairn people who realise that they don't need The Man ( i'm sorry......) telling them what to do.
On the other hand it could be that the majority of the board is small children playing revolutionary.

"and im not bitter about that"

yes you are.Thats why you call us nobs and counter revolutionarys and make scurilous posts.

"its not my board,"

well done for noticeing that!
So why the self rightious post of resigantion?

"But for the people who dont think squatting in shithole is some sort of revolution "

i can safely call myself one of those people!

"will realise that anarchists have never produced the good"

barr for all those other times of course.do i really have to educate you? From the way you denounce anarchism i would have thought you'd be an authority on the subject.Or of course, a small boy playing philospher.

"they disprupted the whole movement for their petty gain and gave the victory to the fascist ****s"

JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!!!!
Who's history have you been reading!!!

You mention Animal Farm so you must be aware of George Orwell, right? Have you ever browsed at Homage To Catalonia?
I would consider it Komrade.

"The day the world become some sort of anarchist shithole"

scurrilous attempt at influence

"i will eat my shoes"

i'd like to see that

"It is funny how very few of the intelligenisia of the left is actually anarchist"

yes if you only read books by lenists, marxists and trots that may seem the case.

"Nice to see how anarchists believe they can revolt by not workin within the system"

show me postive changes made within 'The System' and i will show you three real changes made by pressure from the streets.
There is no reason to bandage a corpse.

"and indeed lay about in the dirt. "

exsqueeze me?!
Have you been smoking Lenin's crack?!

"Let us take Evil Chris, he couldnt take the shit of A-levels"

Yes i did indeed drop out.For about two years i had spent most of the day reading in the common room or down the pub.Why?
Because the effects of schooling apon the mind a terrible.I would advise you (as a board) to look into the docutmented pshycological effects.Read the works of the likes of John Talyor Gatto (whom kamo actully agreed with but carries on beliveing in the schooling lie),Maria Monttisori and John Holt.

Drop out now and de-bug yourself.The battle for you mind is being waged and you should take charge before it is too late.

"and very socialist of him"

don't recall refering to myself as a socalist

"went to work in the gambling industry"

i do indeed and in the intrest of full disclosure i will go into that a bit more:
I am a computer opperater.I clerk on race courses.When a bet is struck i punch it through and a ticket comes out liek a recite which shows them how much they've had, on what horse,at what odds and how much they (could) win.
occationally i do different jobs but mainly clerking.

"hold ON!! isnt this the industry which ruins the lives of thousands of workers? "

indeed it is.It occationally ruins the upper clases too :)
Who the fuck are you to dictate how people spend their money?As i outlined to you in an email awhile ago, the clientel of race courses is diffrent from betting shops.People come for a day out and a flutter.This is reflected on the sheer amount of £1 each way bets that go through the computer :)
Shit i enjoy a bet now and again.I know that i may lose some money, i also know i may win some.Therin lies a challegne and i don't need you , my lad, to tell me not too.Hurrah for the noble and pious marxist.

"and that helps the revolution? "

nope.I wouldn't pretend it does.I helps me get a wage,with which i only need to work a coupel of days a week to get by on.The rest of the tiem i can learn to play the sitar.
By the by, doesn't your YFRC include members of the Macdonalds Resistance? How does them peddleing junk food to masses, food shown to be carcenogenic, prdouced in very very dubious fashions with shity practices help this revoultion?
Don't you do much the same peddleing junk from your delly?
get off your high horse Komrade.

"No, i wont lower myself to Chris's tramp level "

think you jsut did

"and start talking of his "organisation" which does FUCK ALL. "

this comment has a very dark humour about it
Kamo knows little of the activeitys we do.I do not choose to talk about it.Kamo asked me what i was doing the other night.I told him that we were feclitating the Anti Facist meeting in Hinkey, now home to the NF but,because i have been away (yes, helping gambling) i'm abit out of the loop and have to ring round about whats going onthis month.
This comment was posted in an attempt to de-fame me and,through his mass branding, promote Kamo's Komie Kult (yes i realise that this is de-famation by implication but it makes me laugh.Please ingnore this isult to the YFRC)

"has sent numerous petitions out, and i know of at least 3 which have been filled out and given to local councillors "

hurrah.so?

"with one of which with great effect in the Cheshire region (concerning the Cuban Blockade). "

what? you got it lifted?
well done my boy!

"Each month we give out 1 petition on the back of the newsletter."

not sent out since april

"(ask Reuben) "

reuben is on my list and i'm waiting for a chance to pick his brains.
By the way, if any other members would like to enligten me about the commie Nike please feel free to contact me on [email protected]

you've branded those vigils in your name.Nothing more.

"In my area i was able to hand out 100 leaflets to the youth of the region "

woo hoo

"I hope this will be the last time any **** decides to bring up the issue of YFRC not being active. "

not ny a long way

"Chris, i love the way you mocked me about my age concerning my exams"

nver mocked you about your age, just your love of the school proccess and bizzar belif that it's somehow going to help.

The world is run by graduates.So why isn't a paradise?Why doesn't it even appear to be gettin better.I would suggest the premis you have is deeply falwed.

"but i actually want a future"

who doesn't?
put the crack pipe down.

"not to live in a damp apartment "

well in the downstairs toilet there is some damp and a leak but the plumber is comeing thisweek.

"work in a shithole gambling industry "

come racing with me

"claim fooling no1 that it is a good lifestyle, "

better than working in an office 9 to 5 for shit pay in a soul killing worker ant job

when you enter the world(school is a shell) and have to earn a liveing and make ends meet and meet and work with people out side of gthe instautions you hold dear some realism will enter your poltics.
I hope.

until then you can shove "yours in stuggle" up your arse.If your leaveing the board, sling your hook.

[kingbee]

all of you lot should FUCKING GROW UP.
stop having digs at eachother- just because one person decides to leave, people start mincing eachothers words and start having a go at eachother. doesnt this show that the left is divided? even in a forum, there are splits. i agree, this once used to be a forum where we got along- ever since che-lives moved, its grown. we should welcome more people.
why should others leave aswell as kamo? kamo leaves, so others decide to jump ship aswell- why? what bad does a forum do? its here to help us discuss, and share ideas. kamo, la reinbeaux ( i apologise for not getting your name right) and whoever else is leaving, reconsider. we all enjoy the forum, and you lot, the most active posters, will take away something when/if you leave. next malte will be leaving.
whoevers having a dig at kamo for having "trotskyist" words on his site can fuck off too. wasnt he a communist too? (trotsky now). kamo, im on your side regarding your points in this topic, but i dont agree with your leaving. but its your choice.

[evil chris]

"stop having digs at eachother"

why? it's funny.

"and start having a go at eachother. doesnt this show that the left is divided? "

define Left.
Show examples of "Leftist" regimes and why i should unite with them given my (supposed--this is a mesage board and i could be a "Rightist Agent provicure.Or just taking the mick) poltical sympathys.

"wasnt [Trotsky] a communist too?"

yeah but he was also a ****.So i will crack onto him and those who support is action firstly on priciple and secondly for a cheap laugh.






(Edited by evil chris at 3:47 pm on June 12, 2002)

[Kez]

Chris mate, shut the fuck up,
no1 cares if your anti socialist, or the fact that u seem to enjoy disrupting discussions

Anyway, i'll be back to recruit new comrades to the YFRC and by then maybe the YFIS

Yours in the struggle
Comrade Kamo

(Edited by TavareeshKamo at 6:51 pm on June 12, 2002)

[evil chris]

"no1 cares if your anti socialist"

don't recalling saying that either. O You have allowed yourslf to be school.You attack in such a black and white manner.

"or the fact that u seem to enjoy disrupting discussions "

seem?! have i not made it blatant enough that my sole reason for coeming here is to have a cheap laugh at your expense?
shit i don't want you to leave really coz then i'll have to find somewhere else for a giggle.I'm still waiting for lenin and MITRS to reply to me.If they don't i'll probbly have to go on the 25th too.

"i'll be back to recruit new comrades to the YFRC"

like hoarding 5 pound notes.

[Kez]

what a loser, u do know u are talkin to urself and i unfortunately have to read ur shit

ah well,
Its good for me really, coz ur showing ur true colours as an "anarchist" and ur constand digs actually proves how u will never unite with socialists, and maybe some of the naive socialists on this board will take caution before helping such scum.

Its a shame, as there are so many good anarchists such as comrade Paris, whom has had many important thoughts.

Lets hope not anarchists are not as arrogant and aggressive in their stance against socialists.

Y wud i be hoarding £5 notes?
I have not emailed a single person to join YFRC, so i guess yet again u show how stupid you are.
Oh well

Comrade Kamo

[Angie]

All the very best with everything you do, Kamo. :)

[kingbee]

evil chris- you dont really make your own points- just quote other people and try to find something wrong with it. and one question - why do you define trotsky a ****? i would like to know

[evil chris]

well basically because he's a bloshy and all that it entails but what pushes him over the **** line was the way he unleashed the Red Army on the Ukrainian Gurrilias who'd done the donkey work defeating the White Army out there.
I would say that murderous treachery counts you as a ****?
k?
and no i don't really see the need to make my own points when other people are making them for me in the flaws of their arguements.

[Reuben]

I do think his treatment of the Makhno and his followers deserved criticism

[Kez]

what about the rest of the victories of the bolsheviks by trots?
you dont even know what happened in Ukraine, not enough so to comment, Without trotsky there would never have been a Russian Revolution

[Anonymous]

...

(Edited by kill The Capitalists at 4:02 pm on June 13, 2002)

[guerrillaradio]

Kamo - quite how you hope to defeat Vox by calling him a "stupid ****" is beyond me. None of your posts have come anywhere near the rationality and intelligence Vox uses in his posts (no, he's not paying me). In fact, very few of your posts are worth reading. I think Libereco's methaphor about punching in a crowd is very good. You start a thread on Theory attempting to apologise for Stalin, and when I confront you with anti-Stalin fact, you get all defensive and start spewing out indoctrination claims and conspiracy theories, sandwiched between insults. Well here's my thoughts on you: you're a brainwashed kiddie commie. Just cos you're anti-capitalist doesn't mean you have to pro-Soviet. i most certainly am not. Go and sort yourself out and stop your petty insults. I'm shocked that you and me are the same age.

[hobo]

called someone a stupid **** is weak and shows a lack of structure to your own argument, not to mention how immature it is.
I'm pretty offended to have an ultimatum dropped upon me that i don't take enough action just because i post on this board. i go to demonstrations, encourage others to come and join the 'cause' and do as much as a 15 year old boy can.
What is the definition of someone who takes enough action?

[kingbee]

Quote: from evil chris on 11:39 am on June 13, 2002
well basically because he's a bloshy and all that it entails but what pushes him over the **** line was the way he unleashed the Red Army on the Ukrainian Gurrilias who'd done the donkey work defeating the White Army out there.
I would say that murderous treachery counts you as a ****?
k?
and no i don't really see the need to make my own points when other people are making them for me in the flaws of their arguements.


fine- just wanted to see if you knew anything about him- the worst thing is when people go on bout how so and so is a **** when they dont know anything bout them.

[MJM]

I'd like to point out that: evil chris and hobo have no credibility in my book and are making me woder what their trip is??????

kamo has been a good member in this BB and should be farewelled in a comradely maner.

[rosario fc]

I can speak with some authority on this subject as I have been involved with "revolutionary" politics since 1979 (when I joined the YCL), I have seen "angry young men " like kamo who come and go with alarming regularity. Dont get too upset with him, he means well, he truly believes that his viewpoint is the correct one (although the manner in which he chose to announce that he was no longer going to post was a little overly dramatic)
Stay angry for a long as you can Kamo.
p.s nice to see you are studying hard for your exams....mummy and daddy must be proud !

[Kez]

Why would i try and defeat Vox?
Do i care?
no, after all i wont see him ever, and if i do, we would get along anyway.

You take this board to seriously,

I dont think i am an angry whatever, and even if i was, i am angry and more and more educated than before, with passion and knowledge the revolution will go on forward.

Unlike many, i see the best way to change the system within, we have to use the media to our gain, not slate it in their faces while they are looking. Until we are more powerful than them we cant fight them in front of them.
That my friends is why i am studying for my exams, and i wouldnt even say i work that hard for them, if i was, would i be on this site??? I know a few who have completely broken off the site for the revision.

calling people a stupid **** comes from either "immaturity" or utter frustration. When one tries to debate something, and faces someone who doesnt want to listen, and things have to be repeated 3 times, then one gets frustrated, im glad other people who are pointing the finger at me have more patience, it is a very good attribute to have.

Anyway, about the Stalin thing, this again shows my frustration when people cant accept points without resorting to the same old mumbo jumbo rhetoric.
Just last Tuesday i was takin an exam about Cold WAr, and i basically had to write about what a naughty man Stalin was, WHICH I AGREE WITH, but it didnt say how he did some incredibly good things. How can other non-commie students know the truth if he is not presented in a true light?
This i believe is the case with your goodself Guerilla, i hope im wrong and that u are immune from western propaganda

I dont wanna leave on a sour note with anyone, for at least the socialist cause, except Vox, he is a **** and a half.

Anywho...I hope bygone can be bygones?
I know the shit about none of my threads being useful is bullshit, and u have to lower yourself to a kiddy level of "im better that you, your bad at this" mentality, but maybe u will grow out of it.

I will be in contact with the many friends i have made on the baord, and be back on the board, to let you know of protests and news

Eternally Yours in Our Struggle
Comrade Kamo

[evil chris]

"coz ur showing ur true colours as an "anarchist" "

i haven't actully declaired myself "Anarchist" for a long ime.I've said i lean that way so people know my biases .
When have i not been showing my true colours?

"Lets hope not anarchists are not as arrogant and aggressive in their stance against socialists. "

I'm not aggresive against Socialists.I work with them often.I am being aggressive against _three_ socialists, ie, you,Lenin and Man In The Red Suit.Thats not an aggeseive stance against reds atall, just people whom i disagree with and,hey threaten me with death,or lie so often or call me scum.I reckon i'm justfiied in being agressive against those people.
Prahpas if you weren't as two faced in your approch ( ' completmenting' me on one thread, calling me scum to others on msn, that kinda thing) i might not see the need in pulling you down as often.

"I have not emailed a single person to join YFRC, so i guess yet again u show how stupid you are. "

i didn't say you did.I said that you sent me their email addressess.Distinction there.I should still have them in my inbox if you'd like me to send it back to you to og your memory.

"Without trotsky there would never have been a Russian Revolution "

nahnahnah.There might not have been a Bolsy revoultion.There were and had been, already lots of other things kickin off.The Bolshivks just branded it.
And here some thinkin out side the box --Good!
What exactly did the 'Russian Revoultion' achive?
How did it improve the world?
I didn't did it?
I made it a more dangerous place and caused the murder and poverty of countless people.The Bolshy dictatorship was as bad as the Tzar, if not worse so why does it matter wehter there was a "revoultion" or not?

"evil chris and hobo have no credibility in my book "

oh ok.Wanna tell us why?

"Unlike many, i see the best way to change the system within"

gonna give us a real reason kamo?Goes against all form i think.
why do we have to work with the media? the media run _by the people we need to defeat_ do you somehow think that Murdoch is going to turn symaptheic to us? Do you think that the Banks who own him are going to let him even think about it???

Why not have our own media--ohshit we already do.
Find a better example of how "working in the System" has or will help.

"When one tries to debate something, and faces someone who doesnt want to listen, "

well i keep asking you to educate me and show me my errors but you replied t'other night with, and i quote, "why would i want to save you?" because i am "scum".I want to listen, but you are useing the upmost levels of arragnace and shuttin me down.

" [Stalin] did some incredibly good things"

such as?

Kingbee--- No probblem atall buddy.



Insolidiarity with Vox,Hobo and Guerillaradio

Chris

[Kez]

sighs

the thread isnt even for me disagreeing with u, in any case i have answered ur comments many a time.

Uve been on the board a month and are bad relations with three people, hmm, not even i was that bad.

In anycase, The YFRC is holding a little meeting in Manchester so if anyone wants to come along and express their views then please do so. I will give the dates to those who wish to know.

I would like to see you and ur army take on the system from outside, coz ur real "rebels" go on, it'll be so good, seeing ur face blown to bits
haha, i'd fucking love that, greasy fucker.
eh eh eh.

Anyway, enough Chris Bashing, btw i will now ignore all posts by chris :)

Thanking You

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 10:51 am on June 14, 2002
Anyway, about the Stalin thing, this again shows my frustration when people cant accept points without resorting to the same old mumbo jumbo rhetoric.
Just last Tuesday i was takin an exam about Cold WAr, and i basically had to write about what a naughty man Stalin was, WHICH I AGREE WITH, but it didnt say how he did some incredibly good things. How can other non-commie students know the truth if he is not presented in a true light?
This i believe is the case with your goodself Guerilla, i hope im wrong and that u are immune from western propaganda

Stalin's economic "achievements" pale into insignificance against his abuses of human rights and Communism. So he made the USSR the second most powerful country in the world, so what?? Does that make him a good person?? The US is the most powerful country in the world but that's a bad thing as far as commies are concerned. Such hypocrisy.

And no, I haven't been indoctrinated. Your arguments amount to clapping your hands over your ears and saying "lalalala...I'm not listening, you're lying" which doesn't really affect me. Funnily enough, not every Western information source is a liar. I know you must feel frustrated with pro-US history teachers, I do too, I keep mine in check whenever he starts praising an American President. But to assume that every source outside of the USSR is inaccrate is not only incorrect, it's naive. Have you ever read any Soviet literature?? Now that is propaganda.

PS - That History exam was a bastard eh?? I had to make up some terms of the Treaty of Versailles...lol.

[evil chris]

"The YFRC is holding a little meeting in Manchester so if anyone wants to come along and express their views then please do so. I will give the dates to those who wish to know. "

i would be intrested in attening.

"I would like to see you and ur army take on the system from outside, coz ur real "rebels" go on, it'll be so good, seeing ur face blown to bits "

it's always refreshing to see someone piss all over the people who have bought him the freedoms that he takes for granted and then talks of toading to the people who have kept those he seeks to "liberate" down.
cock on laddy
O ar, was Cuba a victory in The System for example? What about the child labour acts that stop you having to go down't pit?
You agree with voteing don't you?
You know i've always been impressed how the Government were so happy to pass women's suffrage laws.No protest from them or anything, just had to ask them nicely.Same with the acts that allowed secret voteing and votes for the working classes- the governemnt said "sure!! and while we'r here- what about an 8 hour working week?!"

"it'll be so good, seeing ur face blown to bits
haha, i'd fucking love that, greasy fucker. "

there is most of my problem with you.Thanks for makeing it so perfectly for all to see.

Respect,
Chris







(Edited by evil chris at 3:58 pm on Sep. 24, 2002)

[Kez]

"But to assume that every source outside of the USSR is inaccrate is not only incorrect, it's naive."
My friend do not get me mistaken, for example in france, i believe the schooling is not anti-soviet to the british extent, and is of course pretty anti-us imperialism

"Have you ever read any Soviet literature?? Now that is propaganda. "
I dont think theory work is propaganda, such as Lenin on capitalism and so on, however soviet news and radio etc was propaganda, and im not saying it was, and in schools it would be the same as in UK/USA as in it would be biased text

"PS - That History exam was a bastard eh?? I had to make up some terms of the Treaty of Versailles...lol."
Lucky **** (in a friendly way:)) , we had to go on about shit recruitment posters and fuckin shit like so. crappy subject.

Comrade Kamo

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 6:15 pm on June 14, 2002
in schools it would be the same as in UK/USA as in it would be biased text
I dispute that. Read "Virgin Soil Upturned" by Mikhail Shokolov. That's the kinda shit they had forced down their throats. In the Nietzschean philosophy, anything written by anyone is subjective and therefore very distant from the truth, so in that sense British History textbooks are inaccurate. I also don't deny that there could well be some deliberate anti-Communist inaccuracies in some textbooks. However, I do not think that they are anywhere near as untrue as Russian textbooks under pre-Gorbachev Communism. And I'm gonna spell it out for you. All history books were written by the state, therefore they would take the same line as the media outlets, which you openly admit were propaganda. Also, anyone who was not to take the party line and tell the kids how much Lenin loved Stalin would be executed, so there was huge pressure to stick to the Stalinist version of the truth. In 21st century Britain, that is not the case. History books are written by historians, and noone can get killed for any opinion written. (Sure some racist opinions can result in a prison sentence, but that is irrelevant in this context.) When there is no (or virtually none) pressure or state intervention into what is to be written, the historian is obviously more liberal with the truth. Hence, British textbooks are more reliable than Soviet textbooks, by a long way.


crappy subject.
Quite how you can claim to know more about Stalin than me and any other anti-Sovietist on this site yet hate history is beyond me, but hey, I'll say no more about it...

[Kez]

I dont believe history is taught, it is subtle indoctrination, we dont see the balanced sides of things, and thats y u get comments from school kids saying, that Lenin was leader of USSR during ww2 and such shit comments, and such that Stalin came to power thru a military coup and so.

anyway, all school textbooks come thru examinig boards and syllabus shit, so they are filtered, and if they arent, u have to give a damn about the subject to go find such a book.

The only reason i say i know about Stalin is becaue i have read his books

[kingbee]

there are two sides to every story- two biased sides. no views are ever from an independent view.
history was crap- i couldnt remember anythign bout american loans after ww1

[hobo]

MJM, what will it take for me to gain credibility in your eyes. You have obiously taken the time to find out 'what my trip is', so must be very open minded. I don't really care if kamo has been a good member to this board, he made a point with which i disagree, am i not allowed to question anyone whose been here for a long time?

[El Commandante]

I have taken the decision to leave this board, quite frankly my reasons for this decision are simple. The board has gone to shit, it's full of useless bickering and namke calling, it's like a kid's playground. Most people don't come here to discuss politics or theory but to tell tales and generally talk bollocks.

This site used to be of a superb standard but in the recent months it has rapidly gone down hill and now is a tragic excuse for a "politics" forum.

Good luck to everyone on the board.

[evile bstard]

it seems to me that this thread need wrapping up, its doing alot more harm than good i've only been posting a little while and have seen many fine comrades speaking of leaving!! is it any wonder that we cant seem to get the cappies to take us seriously as we dont seem to take our own comrades seriously!!

[Kez]

nah, its coz there are so many bullshitters on the site, either they go or members who care leave.
People constantly try and get one over each other, try and argue over petty reasons, and it seems to me capitalism has got over us in that even try to compete with each other.

Uneducated masses wont get anywhere, maybe if Malte linked che-lives with www.marxist.com and then to the education link, then so many anarchists wont come and argue with socialists and so unity wont be broken.

Neo-liberalism doesnt mix with revolution, u cant be fannypanny and hold a gun in ur hand, one or the other, people on this thread have already chosen, maybe you should too hey comrades?

Comrade Kamo

[jimr]

I dont understand. This forum never was a place where people could actually physically do anything to further the cause of Socialism.
I thought the fundemental principle of this board was to inform leftist leaning people to become half decently informed marxists/socialists.

When I came here i had just read the John lee anderson bio of Che. I wanted to learn more about socialism and talk to others that felt like I did and shared some of my political beliefs. Its not that you can expect revolution to come through an internet chat board. I still feel this forum has a purpose in that i can find out what other socialists feel about certian subjects. I am 17 and I live in a city where i know no one who is even socialist. I hope to find more people that feel like i feel when i start my Social politics course in University but at the moment I am left somewhat lacking in options.

Although I frequent this board I don't really know anyone so i don't feel that it has fallen into a popularity thing, atleast not for me. I do see a lot of somewhat radical marxists here who, in my opinion would benefit from thinking a little more practically and even then, their presence on the board is good as the more moderate members tend to rub off on the intial radicals.

Anyway im babbling and i need some food.

[Conghaileach]

The best of luck to you, Yeghishe.

I have to admit I haven't read through this entire thread, but I'm sure that the sentiment is shared by many here.

[Lefty]

jesus people...im ignorant compared to all of you, but where i believe i am somewhat different is that i am willing to hear both sides of the story and learn and form an opinion of my own, whereas some people seem to be biased to the subject of Stalin or whos revolutionary or not...On that subject, who here has ever revolted violently? I thought not. So we are united on one thing...we have never actually fought back against the system that has scorned us so horribly. We all conform. Fuck it all...

[hobo]

El Commandante if your still here, the board isn't going to improve if older members with more to offer to any actual debates just pack up and leave. To anyone who is leaving the best of luck to you as long as your not becoming a businessman.

[deadpool 52]

Quote: from evil chris on 8:37 am on June 12, 2002
Because the effects of schooling apon the mind a terrible.



Is it now?
Maybe you could limit your numerous typographical errors if you stayed in school a little longer. ;)

(Edited by deadpool 52 at 10:53 pm on June 23, 2002)

[deadpool 52]

Quote: from MJM on 4:03 am on June 14, 2002

kamo has been a good member in this BB and should be farewelled in a comradely maner.


Exactly.

[suffianr]

Get over it, comrade. Not everything is going to go your way, or my way, for that matter. We all meet somewhere in between.

[Kez]

My comrades, it is a sad day in one respect today.
I am leaving this great community of friends.
I hope YOU ALL (even u vox:)) the best of luck in ANYTHING that you choose to do.

Although for me it is the start of a new dawn in my activism, and i will be back to get more members into such activities.

I was hoping to gets pics of fireworks or summit to sign off, ah well.

*RAISES FIST IN SOLIDARITY WITH ALL COMRADES*

anyhow, i'll cut the crap and say this

GOODBYE MY DEAR COMRADES!!!!!

YOURS IN THE STRUGGLE
YEGHISHE (KAMO) CHARENTZ

[revolutionary spirit]

see you in the streets

[kingbee]

dont want to bring this up again, but i want to see whats goin on- how many have left? kamo (obv), nateddi, who else

[Domino]

What?!?!?! Nateddi is gone?!?!?!?! :(

[kingbee]

yeah- check earlier in this post- thats why the political compass in chit chat hasnt been updated

[Conghaileach]

I'm prone to pulling off disappearing acts, but I'm never really gone for good.

[new democracy]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 3:52 pm on June 8, 2002
Kamo what are you on about. you are addicted to this board. See you soon. Lol

lol.

[evil chris]

deadpool:hahaha.I think my typing errors are more coz i'm a FAT HANDED TWAT than my school run.