Castro- yee or ney?

[RAM]

?

[oconner]

definatly yee.
Castro has survived over 600 assasination attempts!!!! He is one of my favourtite people

[Angie]

Ja.

[Maaja]

Jahhhhhh

[Kez]

whats the objective of this thread?

none i presume

[ComradeChe]

I think Yes, he is one of the few in this world.

[Needssomeconvincing]

Oh hell yeah. Any country with as good a health infrastructure as Cuba rocks!

[Gavin]

a big NEY, cuba is a prison camp for its people

[Xvall]

Really?
Or is that just what the Right-Wing media wants you to believe. I swear.. They make every country that's not in the first world look like a freaggin wasteland..

[Menshevik]

Fuck Castro

[Domino]

Yay for Castro. He's also one of my favorite people.

[RGacky3]

Yay for Castro, he is probably the best leader in the America's. He took Cuba from being America's dog to being the state with the highest living standerds in all of latin america, His socialist polecies are wonderfull. If there were untamperd elections I'm sure he would win. But if there were elections I'm also sure the U$ would tamper with them.

[Borincano]

Yeyney....

I'm in between. He did a lot of good and bad for Cuba, and he has good and bad qualities.

[Lefty]

im with borincano...he is one of the few leaders that is not the US' *****, but free speech is much less common in cuba, as i understand it

[Menshevik]

If Castro truly cared about Cuba, why doesn't he step down when thats what the people want?

[Felicia]

A big YEEEEEEEEEEEEE for Fidel. If he left gov't, Cuba would fall back into an American ran shit hole!! Just compare pre-revolutionary Cuba with the present Cuba, much has been accomplished and Fidel should be commended! :)

[Menshevik]

Ok. . . his time has passed. He is no longer the fearless leader that Cuba needs. Its the 21st century for christ sakes; get over your immature infatuation with Castro, the Cubans certainly have.

[Dynatos]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee castro is good people

Castro can't step down yet. If he did, Communism in cuba would start to disapear. just like after Mao steped down there was more corruption and more privatization.

[RGacky3]

yeeeeeey for Castro, the people do not want him to step down, the people that don't like him are the former capitalists that Castro took money away from. Any way what happends when he dies, I hope the U$ dos'nt set up a puppet government.

[lacha]

YEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I can't even believe this is a question....
Gavin and Mensh..... have you ever BEEN to Cuba? do you know any Cubans living there? I have a feeling that you guys haven't a clue what you are talking about... you should turn off the capitalist run tv a bit more and GO see for yourself.

however, there were some things wrong with the above praises..... I don't know what Cuba's living standard was before the special period, but living is rough in Cuba today. There is a lack of materials and goods. this is of course the fault of the US.... no doubt about it.

and FIDEL and company have done a DAMN REMARKABLE JOB of making the very best possible of thier fucked situation. no other country in history has ever been able to take such thin resources and create a eglatarian society where EVERYONE'S basic needs are met. He is the most honest, truely caring, leader on the planet today. He fights for the well being of people of all color and race in every corner of the earth. He is the ONLY leader on earth brave enough to speak out about the evils of the capitalist system and he does so with facts, intellegence and logic... not just rhetoric. He has withstood constant attack of ALL forms from the mightiest enemy the world has ever known and he has stood in defiance and has created a people like no other in history. Truely caring people. People who work together, do volunteer work, think about the well being of the country before making every move.... not out of fear... you fools... but out of love and brotherhood. Sure there are those who have been seduced by the plastic toys of the money machine... but they are few. and they are all hanging around tourist establishments in Havana.
if you start meeting the people and talking to them and listening to them you will realize how unique they are. how the revolution and socialism is as much a natural way of life as is the us fever to aquire money.
Any other leader under the same conditions would have failed decades ago. any other leader would have given up. But Fidel is special. As my Cuban friends say he is their "spiritual grandfather"
The people love this man..... and they are determined to continue the revolution in his physical absence. Fidel has prepared them for his eventual death. Everyone is ready. and everyone i have talked to will defend his revolution siempre.

VIVA FIDEL
VIVA LA REVOLUCION

[lacha]

just another note to whoever said that Cuba was a prison for it's people.... well, I have several Cuban friends who have lived all over the world. from africa and venz to sweden and germany. these people are going to school or teaching others or working as volunteer doctors etc.

and as for personal rights and freedoms I will quote a Cuban frien of mine from a letter he wrote me months ago. ...

"I think that freedom without
balance is just an illusion imposed by Capitalism. In Communist countries
the only way you control wealthy people from stealing the economic control
of the country is limiting freedom. Those who thinks they deserve
everything will suffer a lot more than us humble ones ,-)
But nobody has the perfect balanced guarantied.

[liderDeFARC]

i like your signature oconner

[Field Marshal]

Just to follow up on Lacha's well-written post:

Correct me where I'm wrong but this a small portion of the history of the Cuban revolution.

After the government was overthrown, the wealthy capitalists left Cuba. Before and during the revolution, the wealthiest of cuba put their money in US banks. Most of you are familiar with the communist process: After the revolution, the wealth must be equally distributed. However, since the rich left with their money, there was no wealth to distribute.

Fidel and Che stepped up as a leader to help the Cubans. Fidel was busy reorganzing Cuba while Che worked directly with the Cubans (Che emphasized voluntary work, I think he did 10-14 hours of work a day).

The US embargo was a hard blow to Cuba. It shattered Fidel and Che's dream of an industrialized Cuba. So then all the cubans put all their efforts to work with one of the few resources they had, sugar canes. The United States prevented Cuba from prospering by getting Brazil to enter in the sugar cane market.

Now Cuba had to compete with the US-sponsered Brazil. The market was flooded by too much sugar cane, so the value of sugar cane went down. So now the hardworking cubans had nothing much they could do. Cigars and sugar, that makes most of their economy.

First the embargo, then the fall of the Soviet Union (an essential financial supporter), then the devaluation of sugar, then the Bay of Pigs, and recently and now: the Blockade of Cuba. The cubans have been through a lot, and Fidel has stood with them the whole way.

And Menshevik, if you think he is too old or he has been in power too long, you should watch one of his recent speeches about Capitalism, Bush, and the war on terror. He's amazing for his age, and so is his support.

[Menshevik]

Lacha I have been to Cuba. The support for Fidel is not as overwhelming as you would like to think. Castro is a total authoritarian dictator--that negates most of the good he accomplishes. Do you have any idea when the Cuban Revolution was? It was over 40 years ago, approaching half a century. Don't you think Cuba has changed ever so slightly since the post-revolution 60s? It isn't Fidel against the world anymore, it's Fidel against Cuba. He thinks hes going to live forever and is afraid of anyone that thinks otherwise. So, its off to prison with the rest of the "counter-revolutionaries." It's time to stop living in the past and think about the future of Cuba. The United States is not going to set up a puppet govt. either. Most likely there will be a democratic election organized within the Cuban govt., which is what the people deserve.

Riveting or not, Castro doesn't belong in power anymore.

[RGacky3]

castro may be a dictator, be he does everything out of the intrest of the proletariat. He's a great leader, the ones that want him out, are the capitalist, cubans that went to america. I am posetive that if he steps down, the U$ will interfere.

[Menshevik]

Ok, that's your opinion and I can respect that. But who do you really think the proletariat is? It isn't the workers, it's the party officials. Castro means, "dictatorship of the Communist Party board members," not the proletariat.

[PunkRawker677]

Mensh.. you've either never been to Cuba, or you just talked to alot of anti-castro persons there. When i was living in cuba, and the times i hae traveled there, i have never seen overwhelming non-support for castro.

I dont support castro - hes been there for way to long.. its time to go democratic.. hes not the worst guy.. hes not the best guy. theres no yay or nah.. it varies depending on the point you address.

[Menshevik]

I agree, I dont wish him ill tidings or anything, and neither do most people. But to be so blindly in favor of his regime, like most of this board's members, is really childish.

[Menshevik]

oh yeh, and punk, I stayed in Havana and a lot of the people I met didnt despise Castro, but they didn't agree with his policy anymore and thought he was living with his head in the clouds.

[anti machine]

menshivek, I am appalled by your statement "fuck Castro". Castro is a communist hero, who led a revolution against imperialist oppression with the aid of the man whom this site is named after. Albeit, he has become corrupted by his power as all dictators have, but his life in the Cuban revolution was exemplary to say the least. Cuba simply cant keep up with the rest of the Capitalist world, a sydrome all-too-common in communist nations. He could stand to change, but who couldn't? It seems that someone who made such an immature response as that is not at all familiar with the fidel castro i know.

[Borincano]

Menshevik,

Why do you think the USA, once Castro dies and his brother is assassinated, won't or at least try to, establish a puppet gov't? They've done that in Cuba many times before and has always been interested in Cuba. I think they will!

[Menshevik]

Well, after Cuban independence the US started a massive trading outfit in Cuba, like the British East Indies Trading Co. Most of Cuban policy was directed towards aiding American industry in-country. Is that what you mean by puppet govt? Batista was really the only one totally indoctrinated by the US, but mainly because of his connections with the Mob and crooked senators.

Anti-machine,
well, excuse me for offending you [laughs haughtily]. Do I really care that Castro is a Communist Hero? Hmmmm, no. I don't really care too much that Castro was such a "great guy" in his youth, what bothers me is his current conduct. You yourself admitted that as a dictator he's been corrupted. Whatever he stood for has since been perverted by his own personal goals. So I'm sorry for disliking the Fidel Castro that you so intimately know, but he is one sorry son of a *****.

[Borincano]

Menshevik,

Batista wasn't the only one, but he was a major one. After José Martí was killed, Estrada Palma took his place. He was extremely pro-American and later became the first President of Cuba, allowing the USA to do as it pleased on the island.

[Revolution]

All in all, I feel Castro has done a good job. Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the U.S. and the people there have medical coverage...something the U.S. can't manage to do even with all the money it has. He is one of the only people in the history of the world to stand up to the U.S. (pussy terrorists don't count). Not too many Socialists or Communists or even exiles I speak with and know, TRULY understand how the pre-revolution type of government was ran and the type of leader that Bautista was. He was like Trujillo in the Dominican Republic.....terrible. He killed and stole money, establishing businesses for the mafia. I do feel that Fidel can't live and do by example like Che though. That was what made El Comandante special....he was an example to the fullest. He kept the same salary through it all and showed how true Socialism should work. How many times are we willing to help someone? How many times do we volunteer...how many times do we have a deep-rooted/selfless concern for people? Think about it. Look at how we bicker and argue in these message boards and we're supposed to be leftits, socialists, communists....just conscious people. We can't even get our shit together, so how can we expect others to do it? We sit around in our Nikes and shop at the Gap because they hired some rappers to try to represent the people, while they brag of their riches in their songs and we wait in line to buy them while supporting blood diamonds and buy our Che Guevara shirts made from sweatshops while we try to look like rebels.......hmmmm...... [email protected]

[Gavin]

it annoys me intensely that che guevara shirts are made in sweatshops. he must be spinning in his grave.

[oconner]

Quote: from liderDeFARC on 1:00 am on June 11, 2002
i like your signature oconner

do you??? hehehe...are you being sarcastic?

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 11:45 pm on June 11, 2002
castro may be a dictator, be he does everything out of the intrest of the proletariat. He's a great leader, the ones that want him out, are the capitalist, cubans that went to america. I am posetive that if he steps down, the U$ will interfere.


some claim that he is a great leader, some claim that he isn't. but it comes down to what the cuban people think. as long as he is dictator, there is no way of knowing wether the people want him as their leader or not. democratic elections must take place, and then, castro's leadership can be put to the test.

[lacha]

like i have said a billion times before... just going to havana does not mean one knows Cuba. that is like saying that going to LA one can know the us. Mensh .. you need to travel a bit more... talk to people maybe a bit older than you.....
you asked when was the Cuban revolucion? you said 40 years ago? well, it is NOW my friend. NOw. Have you not seen that the revolucion changes daily. ideas are tried and policies are changed daily. have you ever watched TV there? have you ever Been to one of the mass gatherings? try looking at the granma website this weekend for news on the refferendum vote this saturday......

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Blasphemy on 5:52 pm on June 14, 2002

Quote: from RGacky3 on 11:45 pm on June 11, 2002
castro may be a dictator, be he does everything out of the intrest of the proletariat. He's a great leader, the ones that want him out, are the capitalist, cubans that went to america. I am posetive that if he steps down, the U$ will interfere.


some claim that he is a great leader, some claim that he isn't. but it comes down to what the cuban people think. as long as he is dictator, there is no way of knowing wether the people want him as their leader or not. democratic elections must take place, and then, castro's leadership can be put to the test.


I am all for democratic elections, if the U$ kept to themselves, but they won't, even if most of the people do support Castro, the U$ will make sure he is out of power.

[ID2002]

YES++ to Castro. He has done great things for his people and survived US assaination attempts. He is an ICON of resistance against the "evil" Capitalist Empire.

[antieverything]

The fact of the matter is there is a grey area in which Castro exists. I've noticed that most people either believe that Castro is the best man in history or that he is Satan incarnate. Both views are wrong. They are based on propaganda either way.

Castro is a dictator. As dictators go, I guess you couldn't as for anyone much better. Cuba is an example of when fascism is a neccessary evil. (on that note, I think it is kind of strange how us reds and blacks refer to America as fascist but almost never criticize Cuba) Cuba needed a strong regime in order to protect itself from the capitalist world (although, to be honest, I'm not really that sure about this :{) )

One thing to point out is that Castro HAS been a good thing for Cuba. The Cuban people don't just love him because of the fact that they have to.

Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that Castro was not that important in the Cuban revolution. (although both american and cuban histories would indicate this) Actually the revolution was begun and Castro and his group hijacked it and became the leaders (read up on the anarchists in cuba). It is important not to take the credit away from the Cuban people.

So in conclusion, Castro is a pretty good leader (although he needs to go ahead and die) but as Zapata said, "a strong people need no leader, they are their own leader." As to the answer to the question?

I don't know.

[Blasphemy]

cuba isn't exactly a blooming country. people there are very poor, some are hungry for food. i'm not sure he has succeeded as a leader.

[antieverything]

True. But compare it to the rest of the third world and Cuba is a Utopia.

[Xvall]

I'm not really Pro-Castro, but he's done a better job than Batista....

[PunkRawker677]

"Castro was not that important in the Cuban revolution."

obviously you don't know enough of Cuban history. Yes, Castro did not start the intial resistance "vibe" in Cuba, but when he led the first coup against batista (before Che was in the picture) and seriously lost people began to see light, they saw heroes, they saw oppurtunity. Castro, after being relieved from jail, organized oneof the best guerilla armies to date and even though they suffered a great defeat on their initial landing, they made an astonishing come back with very very few comrades in arms..

I do agree that there is no black and white.. its grey.. Castro is good and bad. He has suceeded as a leader. Yet he has failed to live up to the initial dream.. the people love him, especially the ones who were around during the time of batista, cause they know that it is no where as bad as it once was..

[Lefty]

many have commended castro for improving cuba, which he obviously has, but why does he insist on limiting free speech and the like? why do many people hate him?

[Blasphemy]

as long as he is a dictator, and as long as people can't speak up against him, there is no way of knowing what the people really want.

if you look at Iraq, it may seem as if the people adore Saddam, who is an evil, crazy dictator who has done nothing but to hurt his people. i am positive that if free elections were held, saddam would lose dramatically.

[antieverything]

Actually, my pointy-eared friend, I know alot about Cuban history, especially about the revolution and the truth is that the revolution would have happened with or without Castro...of course, it would have been crushed soon after its victory unless someone like Castro stepped in as a dictator.

[jimr]

yey

[Ymir]

Castro, Hitler, and Hussein, all are/were dictators in a country with a populace that either loved them or did not think that removing them from power was worth it. For whatever reason, Castro is still in power and no Cuban people are bothered enough to take arms against him. If the populace wanted to remove Fidel from power he would be gone. As of this moment I dont hear any news about screaming cuban's that want to kill castro. If anyone thinks that castro should not be in power, please go to Cuba and start a movement. The populace will do what is necessary, if they want to.