Would there still be doctors?

[Arko]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. It's late and I'm still learning...

If the doctor is payed the same as a factory worker, what will drive people to become doctors? If they are not rewarded for years training and getting educated, why will they do it? Can you rely on the goodness and compassion of people to work thier socks off for the same rewards (pysical rewards, anyway) as someone who may need little to no training?

I understand that a person should be payed in comparison to the amount of work they do, no matter the profession. But without reward, will people still have the drive to want to be something like a doctor?

And if there were a transition from capitalism to communis,. would the doctors not be outraged that thier achievements are being, to a certain extent, taken away from them?

Sorry if I missed the point to something, as I said, I'm trying to learn.

Thanks for any replies.

[RedCeltic]

Cuba is a perfect example of how and why there would still be doctors in a communist society. You seem to be under the illusion (as many are in the United States) that without being paid an extravagant amount of money, people would not become doctors.

First of all, lets put that notion to rest. Perhaps the largest and most influential group in the United States that is pushing for a National Health care system, is a group formed for and by doctors.

These doctors realize that the only reason that doctors and medical practice gets so much money is the simple fact that you are pretty much in no position to argue over the price or decide not to be treated. If you don't, your health will suffer and in many cases you will die.

Despite the large amount of money doctors receive, it is not the money that most are interested in, but rather helping other human beings. This can be seen in the large participation of doctors in the US who fight for a national health care system... and also the very important fact that Cuba has the best medical practice in the Americas. People come from all over Latin America to train to be doctors in Cuba.

Cuba is also known for developing treatment for AIDS which is more effective than any treatment currently being used in the United States. Because of our economic blockade, Americans who suffer from AIDS are denied this treatment that has been developed by Cuba, who has done more reserch and given more aide to Haiti than any other country.

The United States however, is behind the rest of the industrialized world in medical practice, being the only industrialized nation without a national health care program. It is behind in medical research, and it's for profit health care system actually costs taxpayers much more than a national health care system would.

[Hiero]

I would like to add on to RedCeltics post.

People have certain skills. If a student goin through school in a socialist country or communist, and they learn about the human body and become interested, why wouldnt they do what they are interested in. Why would they go and try to be a mechanic, they are going to have a boring life if they are not interested in it. Their personality may be more tunned to being a doctor, why would they risk going into a job that they are going to fail at.

Think of this scenerio. You are growing up in a commust soceity, where there is no money at all. You like to study the human body and want to be a doctor, you hate doing the more physical work like road construction. Now ask yourself this are going to go do road construction.

Or the other way round.

[apathy maybe]

Further points,
Which is more important for the running of society, doctors? or road workers?
I would argue that they are both as important as the other, therefore should be paid the same amount.

Which is harder to do, use your brain? or use your muscles?
Both are either hard or easy depending on who you ask. Therefore they should get paid the same.

[BOZG]

This argument pops up every so often. I think RC has pretty much cleared everything up but I'll add on a bit.

If you look at most kids who want to be a doctor, most of them recognise that they'll make a decent wage out of it but the prime reason they do it, is to actually help people. The problem in the US and much of the West is that if someone wants to be a doctor, they need to go to college but if you don't have free education, it makes things even more difficult when you have to scrape the money together to send someone to college. In a country where there's free education, this changes entirely. In Cuba, if you have the potential to be a doctor or scientist, the oppurtunities exist. Potential is based on merit and ability, not on whether you have enough money or not.

What AM said is also correct. Different roles people play in society can be equally important, whether they seem demeaning to other people is irrelevant. The guy who cleans the streets, or installs the gas mains etc. plays a fundamental role in society, in the living conditions of people and he should be respected as such. If there wasn't sanitation workers, construction workers to install gas/water mains etc. you'll find that there's as many, possibly more people who are ill, then if there were no doctors.

Fair enough, they're not the nicest jobs to have, I certainly wouldn't like to clean streets for a living but there can be merit in a job like that. If people are made to feel like they're worth something, that they're acheiving something important and contributing, then the job becomes far less demeaning.

[Arko]

Thanks for clearing that up. It does make alot more sense now.

[fernando]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 05:56 AM
I would like to add on to RedCeltics post.

People have certain skills. If a student goin through school in a socialist country or communist, and they learn about the human body and become interested, why wouldnt they do what they are interested in. Why would they go and try to be a mechanic, they are going to have a boring life if they are not interested in it. Their personality may be more tunned to being a doctor, why would they risk going into a job that they are going to fail at.

Think of this scenerio. You are growing up in a commust soceity, where there is no money at all. You like to study the human body and want to be a doctor, you hate doing the more physical work like road construction. Now ask yourself this are going to go do road construction.

Or the other way round.
I might be wrong...but I heard that in East Germany the government decided what you were going to study...if they needed more doctor, you would have to study medicin, even if you cant and dont want to be a doctor...something in those lines...not 100% sure

[gaf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 12:39 AM
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. It's late and I'm still learning...

If the doctor is payed the same as a factory worker, what will drive people to become doctors?


If they are not rewarded for years training and getting educated, why will they do it?
not an hypocr(A)ite sermont any way


they then could work for what they believe.....insurance cie and banks....they have good doctors

all is dubble language.....


fuckin system........
:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[RedCeltic]

The problem in the US and much of the West is that if someone wants to be a doctor, they need to go to college but if you don't have free education, it makes things even more difficult when you have to scrape the money together to send someone to college.

Excellent point BOZG! Medical school is quite expensive in the US and other western nations. While it may be true that many go into the medical field because it affords them a nice lifestyle, it is also true at the same time that many do not simply because they do not have the economic means to achieve such an education that is required.


I might be wrong...but I heard that in East Germany the government decided what you were going to study...if they needed more doctor, you would have to study medicine, even if you cant and dont want to be a doctor...something in those lines...not 100% sure

There were many mistakes made during the Stalinist system. However there are also many exaggerations that were made by the west that distort things a bit. In truth I'm not too sure myself how much of this is true.

I see it more like how people choose their field when they enter the armed forces however. When I joined the Navy I had to take an aptitude test. That test not only was a requirement to enter, but also helped to place you within a field. I was given the choice between SeaBee, Hull Technician, and Machinist Mate. Now this was based on my aptitude, which is also a fairly good indicator as to where someone's interests are, for you are usually most interested in what you have a high aptitude for. Now, it may be that I wanted to go in as a cook. Well you don't need a very high aptitude to be a cook in the Navy and frankly I may have found it a bit dull and unchallenging.

I don't see anything wrong with recognizing a child as a potential and steering them in that direction... with the approval of the child and his/her parents naturally.

[cathatonix]

I think we are all, more or less, greedy and want as much as we can. A socialist country would have trouble keeping the highly educated people inside the borders. I think most of Soviet dissidents belonged to that type of people. A lot of doctors in Murmansk, Vladivostok or whatever, surely wanted to escape to Hollywood, making tits for moviestars and making maybe 100 times more. But, of course, Soviet was not a socialist country.

This is a problem now for Africa and other poor regions of the world. A poor country with a terrible need for doctors educate so many doctors as they are able to. And when they have finished school they buy a ticket to US or Europe, leaving their home in even more need of health care and money.

A working socialist society maybe needs to be global. Look what US have done with countries who have tried making a better country for the majority. Like Chile and Nicaragua. Or Cuba. This will happend until the capitalist are chased out from USA. They can't compete with justice so they have to kill it.