Hypocrite?

[Subversive Pessimist]

Many on this forum praise Ernesto Guevara and what he stood for. Guevara admired Stalin, Mao (he also met him at one point) etc. and supported their policies, and still, the majority people on this site dislike Stalin more then they dislike Bush.

Hypocrisy?

[fernando]

Im curious if Che knew about the crimes Stalin commited, or maybe he admired Stalin for shooting the industry and military up so quickly...he might have admired Stalin for the results, not the way he did it ;)

[Bolshevist]

I have nothing against Stalin or Mao ;)

[fernando]

Maybe an another argument...Stalin had about a 100 million people killed, Guevara however hasnt...Che Guevara stayed true to the Revolution, he continued to work while other socialist/communist leaders just became (almost) decadent leaders who lived in big palaces etc.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Im curious if Che knew about the crimes Stalin commited,

Che ordered the execution of about 600 men after the Cuban revolution. He also executed a few persons with his own hands.


Stalin had about a 100 million people killed, Guevara however hasnt...

A hundred million! :rolleyes:

Even the fascist Solzhenitsyn claims it was 60 million, and we know he is lying. Tell me, how did he manage to kill 100 million people, and for what purpose? What would happen to the economy and the country if he did this?

I guess common sense is not so common.


Che Guevara stayed true to the Revolution

In what way wasn't Stalin true to the revolution?



he continued to work while other socialist/communist leaders just became (almost) decadent leaders who lived in big palaces etc.

Stalin lived in a two room apartment in Kreml, and only slept on a simple bed with a military blanket.

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 02:40 PM

Che ordered the execution of about 600 men after the Cuban revolution. He also executed a few persons with his own hands.



A hundred million! :rolleyes:

Even the fascist Solzhenitsyn claims it was 60 million, and we know he is lying. Tell me, how did he manage to kill 100 million people, and for what purpose? What would happen to the economy and the country if he did this?

I guess common sense is not so common.



In what way wasn't Stalin true to the revolution?




Stalin lived in a two room apartment in Kreml, and only slept on a simple bed with a military blanket.
He executed 600 Cubans...supporters of the former regime...I would see that almost as something similar to the Neurenberg Trails after WW2, yes he killed a few with his own hands...it would be the same...I mean somebody executed by Che or by somebody under Che's command. it shows he did not ignore his responsibility.

Well...the 100 million thing is something we get thought in history class...dont flame me for that :(

[Subversive Pessimist]

He executed 600 Cubans...supporters of the former regime...I would see that almost as something similar to the Neurenberg Trails after WW2, yes he killed a few with his own hands...it would be the same...I mean somebody executed by Che or by somebody under Che's command. it shows he did not ignore his responsibility.


I agree with you. It's just that some people think that he was a guerilla with wings, like some kind of angel. I though tit was worth stressing that he did indeed do things like this. I'm glad we agree.


Well...the 100 million thing is something we get thought in history class...dont flame me for that

No problem. We're all learning things like that in school. :)

I do not even considering saying that Stalin did not order the execution of people. But the bourgeoise wants us to think that he killed several millions of people (some say 20 million, others say 60 etc). I think that, although people were executed by both Che and Stalin, we need to focus on why these people were executed, not how many they were.


Anyways, people who praise Guevara and hate Stalin should at least be aware that Guevara supported Stalin.

[fernando]

But you must also know that later on Che lost his faith in the USSR, hence..no longer supporting the USSR...I dont know if he stopped supporting them because of the "anti-stalinist" politics that Croetjov (sp?) put on the USSR.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Yes, that's true, he lost faith in the USSR because of the new leaders and the way the USSR was going. Not supporting the USSR is not the same as not supporting Stalin. Those in the party were better paid then the proletariat, and they restored capitalism in the country.

They talked about "peaceful coexistence between the socialist and the capitalist world", something that Ernesto did not approve of at all. They also removed the rockets from Cuba without discussing or even notifying Fidel or any of the other persons in the Cuban government about that.

He was then accused fo being a "chinese", or a supporter of Mao by the Soviet government, which was true.

[fernando]

Didnt Che eventually also call the USSR "imperialistic"? I think it was in his speech in Algeria?

[Jesus Christ]

Stalin had about a 100 million people killed

although i do support the fact that Stalin was a mass murderer and Comrade Strawberry helped clear this up a little about the statistics, Stalin did not kill 100 million people, it was very well less even though we will never know the exact statistics.

many say that the greatest death tolls average around 50 million between 1926 up to his death, which is very well absolutely ridiculous.
yes, Stalin was a murderer, and the death toll may as well be in the millions, but nowhere near 50 million
think, in 1926, the population of the Soviet Union was near 147 million people, and in 1939 at 162 million people
if Stalin had purged almost or even more than 50 million people, his plans for industrialization of the Sovet Union would have never became a success, and to think that he could have killed about a third of the Soviet Union's population without an economic blowout, is mindblowing
just the economic conditions that ensued should be any sort of indicator of how many people Stalin had murdered, and it just goes to show that they will teach ANYTHING in schools now.

[Latin America]

Also Che started to dislike the USSR because they were starting tu use cuba as a "satellite" and also from the bad manufactured products cuba got from them!

[che's long lost daughter]

Does it have to be that if one likes or supports Che, he also has to like or support whomever Che supported?

[gaf]

Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 24 2004, 10:56 AM
Does it have to be that if one likes or supports Che, he also has to like or support whomever Che supported?
one support and kills xxxx millions people
the other one freed? millions giving hope to millions more
and you are right clld

[Paradox]

I have nothing against Stalin or Mao


I do not even considering saying that Stalin did not order the execution of people. But the bourgeoise wants us to think that he killed several millions of people (some say 20 million, others say 60 etc). I think that, although people were executed by both Che and Stalin, we need to focus on why these people were executed, not how many they were.

So then you support executions? What exactly would warrant execution? Murder? Torture? Rape? Personally, I'm inclined to think they are not necessary. But then again, you don't know how you'll act until you're put in a situation where you have to make that decision. I mean, even if it wasn't in the millions; even if it were in the thousands; how can you just kill so many people like that? Doesn't that pretty much defeat the idea of redemption? Of realizing one's mistakes, and becoming a good member of society? Were those executed under Stalin given the chance to defend themselves? Was it proven beyond a doubt that they were guilty? Forgive me for asking this, but I have not read much about Stalin. Perhaps I should.


many say that the greatest death tolls average around 50 million between 1926 up to his death, which is very well absolutely ridiculous.
yes, Stalin was a murderer, and the death toll may as well be in the millions, but nowhere near 50 million
think, in 1926, the population of the Soviet Union was near 147 million people, and in 1939 at 162 million people
if Stalin had purged almost or even more than 50 million people, his plans for industrialization of the Sovet Union would have never became a success, and to think that he could have killed about a third of the Soviet Union's population without an economic blowout, is mindblowing

That's a good point. Whether or not you consider him a murderer, it's totally illogical to think he could have pulled that off. Like the Soviet Union could have made any advancements when it was slaughtering millions of people. Nonsense.


It's just that some people think that he was a guerilla with wings, like some kind of angel.

Yeah, that's unfortunately the case. I mean, I admire his dedication to the cause; but to worship him like some sort of god; that's just wrong. Believe in yourself. You can take lessons from others, but only you can make what you believe materialize. VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!!!

[Wiesty]

we can agree with many of che's views and actions, but not all of them

[BOZG]

Most people don't really support Che because of his personal politics but more so for the revolutionary spirit and revolutionary sacrifice that he represents. There is a tendency though that people forgot that Che was quite 'authoritarian' and supported both Mao and Stalin.

[refuse_resist]

I guess in a way it can be considered hypocritical for someone to be into Che, yet be against Stalin or Mao. The reason being is because all 3 of them were influenced by the same ideologies and in order to understand where Che was coming from it would also be good to understand the other 2's beliefs.

[Agent provocateur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 12:13 PM
Many on this forum praise Ernesto Guevara and what he stood for. Guevara admired Stalin, Mao (he also met him at one point) etc. and supported their policies, and still, the majority people on this site dislike Stalin more then they dislike Bush.

Hypocrisy?
Che never met Stalin--- never! N-E-V-E-R ! A lot of people admired Stalin including artists like Picasso, Frida Kahlo, Diego Rivera, poets like Pablo Neruda. But they knew very little of what Stalin was doing-- his abuses and systematic killings etc.