Cuba

[Galatian 6:2]

I was just wondering what some praises/criticisms of Cuba are and do you feel Cuba is keeping in line with communism (I've heard ppl. say the USSR and China aren't actually communist--i know they were supposed to be in the "social" state before communism)?

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by Galatian 6:[email protected] 23 2004, 06:22 AM
I was just wondering what some praises/criticisms of Cuba are and do you feel Cuba is keeping in line with communism (I've heard ppl. say the USSR and China aren't actually communist--i know they were supposed to be in the "social" state before communism)?
China and Russia were not Communist at all. They were socialist states claiming to be in the "dictatorship of the proletariat" Stage - which was not true in terms of material reality.

[Galatian 6:2]

How so

[God of Imperia]

Because one person has all the power, how can everyone be equal that way?

[VukBZ2005]

First - Both in China and in Russia, The state had control of the Mode of production
- not the workers of those nations. Also, Both China's and Russia's economies had
all the primary characteristics of a Capitalist Economy - it still had currency, wor
-kers had to work, etc. A Communist Economy won't have Currency and things
would be produced for Use and Need. And people won't and don't have to work if
they did'nt want to.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Forget how Cuba is "keeping in line" with Communism. Just look at the facts.

Despite 45 years of economic sanctions and blockades of every sort and also the collapse of the government which promised to support Cuba through it's transition, Cuba has a steady rising population and an excellent infant mortality rate of just 6.45. Life expectancy currently lies at 77.04 and the HIV/AIDS prevalence rate stands at 0.01%! Look at some of the other countries in Latin America:
HIV/AIDS Prevalence rate:
Brazil - 0.7%
Argentina - 0.7%
Colombia - 0.7%
Dominica - 1.7%
Chile - 0.4%
Peru - 0.5%
Venezuela - 0.5%
Uruguay - 0.3%
Mexico - 0.4%

Cuba is the highest. And this is from a source which would be in no way whatsoever biased towards Cuba: The CIA. If anything, it would make Cuba look worse than it is.

The country has one of the most outstanding health cares in the world, especially considering the burden it has been uner, and is the best in Latin America. I recently even heard a news report which the BBC dared to air stating that Cuba, as judged by independant commissions from the EU, is the most advanced country in dealing with HIV/AIDS and Cancer.

Education is impeccable. 97% of the country are literate. It is recognised also as the best in Latin America and if anyone asks, I will gladly put Cuba's statistics of literacy against any other Latin American country and bet that it wins. 2.6% are unemployed.

I've reverted back to the CIA source for this one as I think it would provide a biased picture we can work from. Indeed, it says the number below the poverty line is "N/A". The CIA says this.

It has 58 television stations, 1,600 internet hosts and in 2000, it was estimated that it had 250,000 Internet users. As the Internet coming to Cuba was relatively new then, I have read in a book I will find the name of if anyone requests that that was expected to rise 200% every year as the government is recommending and pushing Internet use.

The things at the end there shrivel in insignificance up against the statistics of public service. Cuba is also sending it's doctors around the world to train and treat, especially into Africa where their aid is desperately needed. It's also educating doctors from all over the world. Cuba will happily take in student doctors to Havana to receive one of the best medical educations in the world.



All this with a 45 year blockade. Communist, Socialist, Liberal, Capitalist, Conservative, Neo-fuckin-Nazi; whatever you want to call yourself, you cannot argue with facts and you cannot argue that these facts are not good.


One bad thing is the recent influx of the dollar. It is one thing Cuba needs to work on and is in the process of doing so. Also, I'm never in agreeance with a one-party state. However, from books I have read that the people have the right to lobby, protest and complain without fear that they will get locked up. Whether Cubans will tell us differently, I do not know.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Some of you may tired of me posting this article on every thread about Cuba, but here it is again.

American vs. Cuban Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html)

[Beccie]

As Socialsmo o Muerte has already noted, the success of the Cuban socialist revolution has been the dramatic increase in life expectancy and literacy rates and decrease in infant mortality rates. Cuban infant mortality and life expectancy rates resemble those found in the first world. These statistics are a reflection of Castro’s dedication to universal health and education systems. It is impressive that Cuba was able to maintain these standards during the special period (1993-present) despite the fact that there major trading partner (the USSR) had collapsed and their economy stalled.

Another positive that has come out of Cuban socialism is the support women have available to them. Woman are encouraged to attend university and enter into the workforce, they are able to take maternity leave if they choose to have a baby and enter their children into free day care when they are 6 months old.

The negatives of the Cuban socialist experience have been economic and political. The legalisation the US dollar (in the tourist industry) has led to inequality in Cuban society. It has led to a "chase for dollar" because the living standards of those people who had access to the dollar are higher then people living of the peso. People who were trained teachers and doctors were leaving their jobs to work in the tourist industry; this had a negative impact on Cuban health and education systems.

With the collapse of the USSR and the continuing US trade embargo it has been argued that Cuba will inevitably open up to and engage with the world economy. It is important that when this occurs Cuba maintains its socialist will (i.e. its commitment to universal education and health care). It has been argued that Cuba will be able to engage with the world economy without abandoning its socialist roots
.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

RedZeppelin, thanks for the link

[apathy maybe]

I say it to lots of people, I'd much rather live in Cuba then the USA. I'd much rather live in Cuba today, then Cuba before the revolution. (Not that I live in Cuba :))

Cuba is not communist. It has got a very good form of socialism that as Socialsmo o Muerte has pointed out is better then other countries in Latin America. And better then the USA in some cases.
Link to the CIA http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html
Link to the SBS http://www.theworldnews.com.au/Worldguide/...php3?country=52 (http://www.theworldnews.com.au/Worldguide/index.php3?country=52)

(incidentally this is the definition of communism from the CIA, no mention of democracy)

Originally posted by CIA
Communism - a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single - often authoritarian - party holds power; state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society).

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

We can look at these figueres and statistics all day and they are, of course, reliable ways of showing the success of Cuba. But we all must remember one thing which probably doubles the greatness of all the figures: the embargo.

Locked away from the benefits that most of the rest of the world receives from the powers, Cuba has still managed this. Whenever judging the successes and failures of Cuba, one must ALWAYS remember the embargo has been going for FORTY FIVE YEARS!

[DaCuBaN]

Communism - a system of government

Wrong!

in which the state plans and controls the economy

Wrong!

and a single - often authoritarian - party holds power

Wrong!

state controls are imposed

Wrong!

with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital

Yay! Finally we've hit a nail square on.

while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society).

*Sigh*

That would be socialism. Damn, no wonder it's a ***** trying to explain this one to people.

Does anyone else feel like they are going blue in the face trying to explain to people who have no clue that Cuba isn't a communist society? The very fact that it's still a nation discounts any possibility of being "communist"


Whenever judging the successes and failures of Cuba, one must ALWAYS remember the embargo has been going for FORTY FIVE YEARS!

Right on. :D

[Monty Cantsin]

I heard that in Cuba the rate of broken marriages is 70%. Also that the average women by the time she’s 30 has had 3 abortions.

could someone back me up on this if they know the states because i heard it on some tv talk show about womens rights and how good it is in cuba.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

as a democratic socialist, I would be inclined to say cuba seems to be evening out and balancing the right of the individual with the greater good of humanity alot better than it did when fidel went all rigid on every one as now he seems to have gotten wiser and gained a better understanding of the humaity which he deep in his heart cares about so much. Its kind of like how a well intentioned parent cracks down on their kid because they think they are helping their kid but then they learn more about how to accept their kid and get a better understanding of where their kid is coming from. well as fidel grows older and wiser he, in his better understanding of humanity and the world, allows him to get better and better at combining my contry's forefather's political ideology of democracy and personal freedoms that come with our geat bill of rights, while at the same time (hopefully, if all works out right) still retaining the economic side of marxism.

does anybody see what I am trying to say?

...fidel is humyn humyns are NEVER perfect. but he is a good man!

[DaCuBaN]

humyn

I get what your saying: Cuba has been a steep learning curve for Fidel, and it's finally levelling out. I can accept that. It's just a bit of a shame it's take forty years...

As to the above quote, please don't use that word. If it's in a form of protest against the masculine nature of our common language, then at least change it with consistency. Remember that changes to language are organic, and English is messy enough without fucking up more words like that.

So, if you wish to protest, why not try something like "Woman, Peman, Human" or similar, and that way "man" simply becomes an abbrevation, and not the remnant of our patriarchal society. If you hadn&#39;t guess "womyn", which has no basis in anything, pisses me off intensely <_<

[Danton]

Originally posted by Monty [email protected] 25 2004, 10:39 AM
I heard that in Cuba the rate of broken marriages is 70%. Also that the average women by the time she’s 30 has had 3 abortions.

could someone back me up on this if they know the states because i heard it on some tv talk show about womens rights and how good it is in cuba.
Probably correct, infidelity is a way of life in Cuba but remember marrige has&#39;nt the same sanctity as it does in religiously influenced nations. Womens rights are highly advanced and there is an undisputed racial harmony that exists nowhere else on this planet.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Education is impeccable. 97% of the country are literate.


Actually, everyone can read in Cuba, except those who are very young. Cuba is the nation with the highest ratio of teachers per capita in the world: one for every 36.8 inhabitants. It is possible for everyone to read and write.



Also, Both China&#39;s and Russia&#39;s economies had
all the primary characteristics of a Capitalist Economy - it still had currency, wor
-kers had to work, etc.

Of course, those who are able to work have to work in order to survive. Socialism existed in China and Russia. Are you denying this?



I heard that in Cuba the rate of broken marriages is 70%. Also that the average women by the time she’s 30 has had 3 abortions.



US propaganda. Just think about it, according to US standards.

Broken marriages - EEEVIL
ABORTION - EEEEVIL (I actually agree on that one but that&#39;s another debate)

Why would someone take 3 abortions? Abortion, from what I know, is not very healthy for your body, and Cubans are obsessed with health.


Still, it could happen that the rate of broken marriages are up to 70 percent. Where I live, it&#39;s on 50 percent.

[Commie Girl]

When we were in Cuba, most people had been married several times, and told us that the government quits recording marriages after you&#39;ve done it 7 times&#33; Met a nice older man who had been married 5 times and had 15 children. There is a corelation between religiosity and the idea of what marriage means to people. The abortion numbers may be propoganda, but it is a personal choice for people to make, and at least there IS a choice for women.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 12:51 PM
Why would someone take 3 abortions?
Um, because they got up the duff three times and didn&#39;t want the babies? Just a long shot..

[fernando]

About the abortion thing, what is the average age of women getting an abortion? I mean having it three times doesnt say so much, I mean...it could be a woman of 60 who had three abortions in her entire life, or a girl of 16 who had 3 abortions since she was 12.

How high is the teenage pregnancy rate? Same as in the Uk (which is the highest in Europe if I recall correctly) or lower?

[Fidel Castro]

Cuba certainly is no utopia, and has never claimed to be such. The economy and the policy of the US towards Cuba is still as problematic as always. What is perhaps more worrying is that the US under Bush is now not only tightening the thumb screws on Cuba, but on Cuba&#39;s trading partners also. This is evident in the European Unions condemnation of Cuba&#39;s political system.

However, although Cuba has not by far achieved the goal of Communist Utopia, and is unlikely to do so in Castro&#39;s or even my lifetime, it has I think come closer to such a goal than either the USSR, China and certainly North Korea have ever managed. This is an especially remarkable achievement when you consider Cubas size and economic potential in relation to the USSR and China.

Healthcare, Education, Housing and international aid are particular success stories for the Castro era. Perhaps even more importaintly, Castro has managed much through his own efforts to rally the respect and support for Cuba&#39;s cause from people all over the World, even within the US itself, ensuring that Cuba does not become a "hermit" nation like North Korea, a nation that suffers from an annual economic growth rate of around -5% in relation to Cuba&#39;s +2.5% per annum.

[Freedom Writer]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/work...tecap/index.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1955/statecap/index.htm)

umm.. :huh:

[Galatian 6:2]

So how has Cuba managed to have an increasing economy? I mean, I was talking to my Economics professor about a week ago (he&#39;s from Vietnam) and he was telling me he likes communism it&#39;s just that without the motive to work...people don&#39;t. He said they have something called "within the walls" (i think that&#39;s its name) unemployment. That is, people who go to work but don&#39;t produce because they don&#39;t have to--just lazy. So how has Cuba managed to sidestep that problem? Not having an incentive to work and actually producing.

[Monty Cantsin]

I was reading about che’s economic policies a while ago and they had a progressive wage system i.e. the more you work the more you get paid or per unit of production you produce. But I was watching this segment on Tv about Cuban celebrities and they get paid around the same as doctors and so forth. The particular celebrity some world famous dancer at some world famous club in Havana was on US&#036; 23, but she said she was quite happy because of free health and education and cheap housing from the government.

[fernando]

people here in the Western world are raised up to believe that they all have to make lots and lots of money to reach happiness or anything in life. If you dont have lots of money you are a "failure"...this is something totally wrong, however people need money to buy stuff (food, luxeries, etc), but nowadays people have become dependant on crap. You dont want money to buy food or normal stuff...no you want a tv which has 1500 channels of which you only watch about 10...

Bleh...more on this later...