fidel and the scavengers

[gaf]

well i fond this one in a dutch site the source is spanish and i still lookin for it
anyway if you speak dutch you can read it
ANPWANADOO (http://www.wanadoo.nl/anp/news/ANP-221004-21-anp.html)
i did translate it for you but it's not perfect
but the point is .scavengers are coming.

Loyola the Palacio, Vice-President of the European Commission,
hope that the cuban LEADER Fidel Castro, dies, as soon as possible '
he reacted after the fall that Castro made Wednesday evening after a speech at
Santa Clara 280 kilometres east of the capital havana,where he lead a speech.
He break thereby its knee and rightarn. , I do not say that Castro must be assassinated,
but that he must die as soon as possible '',
Castro is a malicious dictator who has blood in his hands ''. cited the euro commissioner Friday. ,
in front of journalists in the Palacio he also denounced , the soft '' attitude" of the social
democratic government of the Spanish premier Zapatero towards Castro. The 78 years old cuban LEADER is Thursday operated
. The operation lasted about three hours and a local anaesthesia was carried out. . Actualised at 12.27

[fernando]

Well...if there will be a new and strong leadership in Cuba I dont see a problem with this...I mean I hope Fidel doesnt die soon, because things might get really dangerous for Cuba then for a short while, but Fidel will eventually die...he is 78 after all.

[gaf]

i just forgot this one i think a lot of you didn't have a political conciousness yet.i did and i can remember this( i wonder why we didn't speak much other it and didnt see much pick from it (still searchin)
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x41puke_t.htm
In January 1992, while at a formal dinner in Japan, Bush became ill, vomiting on the Prime Minister of Japan, then fainting. Earlier in the evening, Bush had told his physician he was feeling unwell [3f]. It proved to be nothing more than "the flu," but coming on the heels of Bush's diagnoses of atrial fibrillation and Graves disease in the preceding 12 months, there concern was expressed over his physical health Comment: During the episode Bush had the appearance of a man suffering an inferior-wall myocardial infarction. An electrocardiogram was, however, normal. It's not clear what the Japanese Prime Minister thought of all this. One is left to ponder the immortal line from the immortal movie Animal House: "Flounder, you didn't just throw up in front of Dean Wormer, you threw up on Dean Wormer!"

Interestingly, Bush's son George W. Bush also suffered a syncopal episode while President.

[h&s]

Well...if there will be a new and strong leadership in Cuba I dont see a problem with this...I mean I hope Fidel doesnt die soon, because things might get really dangerous for Cuba then for a short while, but Fidel will eventually die...he is 78 after all.
Why does everyone here love Cuba so much? I know Fidel has done a lot of good stuff, but come on. I can't believe we have people advocating a strong leadership in Cuba. I would have thought people would be critisising Cuba for maintaining its beureucratic vanguard. When can the Cuban people have a say in things? Where are the worker's councils? That is what people should be advocating for Cuba - not maintaining the bueruecracy.

[gaf]

respect after 40 years embargo and because he has one of the best health care in the world
just respect.man........ no idolatrie from me.
and of course nobody's perfect ..are you?

" where U.S send troops to kill people we just send doctor to help them"

answer at gw bush.from fidel with love.

[gaf]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 24 2004, 06:36 PM
Why does everyone here love Cuba so much? I know Fidel has done a lot of good stuff, but come on. I can't believe we have people advocating a strong leadership in Cuba. I would have thought people would be critisising Cuba for maintaining its beureucratic vanguard. When can the Cuban people have a say in things? Where are the worker's councils? That is what people should be advocating for Cuba - not maintaining the bueruecracy.
may be some people don't like hypocrisy...

[h&s]

respect after 40 years embargo and because he has one of the best health care in the world
just respect.man........ no idolatrie from me.
and of course nobody's perfect ..are you?

" where U.S send troops to kill people we just send doctor to help them"

answer at gw bush.from fidel with love.
Yeah I love what Fidel has done with the health service and other national services, but thats about it.
'and of course nobody's perfect ..are you?'
But the thing is he's no-where near perfect. He's a ruler. He does not support a worker's democracy. By maintaining the ruling class, he obviously does not support a classless society.


may be some people don't like hypocrisy...
I don't get you.... Do you mean at least he's not one of those 'communists' who offer you a statless society but give you a brutal dictatorship instead? To me that is just giving in.

[gaf]

us will send an army of peace.while cuba will put his own children into a sex tourism industry......... this kind of hypocrisy

[gaf]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 24 2004, 07:05 PM
Yeah I love what Fidel has done with the health service and other national services, but thats about it.
'and of course nobody's perfect ..are you?'
But the thing is he's no-where near perfect. He's a ruler. He does not support a worker's democracy. By maintaining the ruling class, he obviously does not support a classless society.


I don't get you.... Do you mean at least he's not one of those 'communists' who offer you a statless society but give you a brutal dictatorship instead? To me that is just giving in.
and a workers democraty mean you have to produce thus to consum or i don't see the point here

may be as a true dictator. he needed a embargo which last 40 years now?

[fernando]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 24 2004, 06:36 PM
Why does everyone here love Cuba so much? I know Fidel has done a lot of good stuff, but come on. I can't believe we have people advocating a strong leadership in Cuba. I would have thought people would be critisising Cuba for maintaining its beureucratic vanguard. When can the Cuban people have a say in things? Where are the worker's councils? That is what people should be advocating for Cuba - not maintaining the bueruecracy.
I agree with you that the Cuban people should have the right to say more when they want to...however the thing Im afraid of is that Cuba will turn into yet another "colony-like" country from the US. That is what will happen when Castro dies...big companies in the US have already planned which parts of the Cuban soil they are going to use to implant their imperialist needs on Cuba.

[Subversive Pessimist]

By maintaining the ruling class, he obviously does not support a classless society.

The working class is the ruling class in Cuba. The means of production in Cuba is owned by the state. I would also like to see more power to the Cuban people, but the fact remains that Castro is doing everything he can in order to improve the living of the working class. So far, so good.

Today, there are only two likely options. Fidel or Raúl in power, or a capitalist Cuba. I would have chosen a Cuba with either Fidel or Raúl in power. Considering that you do not want capitalism to fall, I wonder where you stand.

[h&s]

The working class is the ruling class in Cuba.
No it is not.

Considering that you do not want capitalism to fall, I wonder where you stand.
Pardon? Considering you do not want capitalism to fall?!? I think you got that one wrong.
If you have to keep the state in Cuba then they could at least do it in a more de-centralised way. There could be local democratic councils for workers to go to have a say in political matters. A strong leader is not needed to keep the country strong - the people are perfectly capable of doing that themselves. They can keep the state in parts and still remain in charge. I know they will try to find another excuse, but without Castro in power the US would lose their main excuse for 'regime change' in Cuba.

[fuerzasocialista]

Fidel is playing the hand he was dealt. He knows as well as many others that when he dies, the US will do everything in its power to restore a capitalist government into power. Presidency will most likely change over to Raul, however, there will be resistence. Thats where the strength of the revolution will be measured. Should socialism continue in Cuba after Fidel's death, it would be the biggest victory for the revolution.

If the US grabs Cuba after Castro dies, there is no doubt that it will turn it into a capitalist whore just as it was before Castro, el Che and the people succeeded. The present day government in Cuba is not perfect, but the country is still standing on its own two feet. Even with all the kicking the US is doing to knock it down.

[h&s]

Does anyonme know what the national opinion of the Cuban people is? Do they know of the inevitable threat when (the) Castro(s) die? I certainly hope that they are prepared for such a time. I would hope that they are prepared to wage another revolution against the US if they invade.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Pardon? Considering you do not want capitalism to fall?!? I think you got that one wrong.


You told us a while ago that you did not want capitalism to fall "in at least ten years", because "nazi or fascist groups might take over".

I asked you if you thought the situation would change in "at least ten years", but I cannot remember you answering my question. It was a while ago, so if your view has changed then that's all well and good.

I did not answer your question because I wanted to attack you as a person or anything like that. I just wanted to explain why I said it.


There could be local democratic councils for workers to go to have a say in political matters.

There are local democratic elections where the people can choose local representatives. I do not know if they can decide political matters directly.


If you have to keep the state in Cuba then they could at least do it in a more de-centralised way.

I do agree with you that things could be a little more de-centralized.

To wipe out the state is not just like saying "hey, let's get rid of the state" and everything will go smoothly.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 26 2004, 08:13 PM
Does anyonme know what the national opinion of the Cuban people is? Do they know of the inevitable threat when (the) Castro(s) die? I certainly hope that they are prepared for such a time. I would hope that they are prepared to wage another revolution against the US if they invade.
Frankly speaking, with all the propaganda, we should be sure that they already know what would highly possibly happen after Fidel dies~

I'm just worried that numerous factions will emerge in gathering and influencing different Cubans' opinions...... that's the worst scenario.