School

[Anti-Capitalist1]

As I high school student, there is no doubt in my mind that I do not enjoy school. I do not value most of the things I learn there, and regard it merely as an unpaying "job" of sorts. I am not alone. Next to every kid I've ever met, shares this same opinion... we're all miserable in school. The feeling I get is one I imagine a guy working in a cubicle gets... just doing work because someone is making me. The learning i truly enjoy, is that I do outside of school, reading books, and utilizing the internet. Can someone explain to me why school is like this? Does it tie into our capitalist society?

[Poop]

School is based on the premise that kids are stupid, and if left to their own devices, would do nothing all day. Therefore, they need to be instructed and have superiors use a stick-and-carrot approach to get students to learn. It's like school is designed to kill student initiative. It treats learning like a poison that has to be shoved down students' throats.

It's excellent conditioning for the work world. Obey your superiors, do your work, follow the carrot, avoid the stick, and conform. And then there's the whole statist-capitalism indoctrination...

[Pawn Power]

Main goal of public schooling is to teach kids deciplin, education comes second

[ComradeChris]

School just creates docile bodies for the bourgeois to exploit. We essentially sell our bodies. That is why the school system is so much like a manual, factory labour job (bells, whistles, loudspeaker, etc). And the teacher is symbolic of the supervisor on an assembly line.

I think school should be able to taken at any time (if taken at all); and the individual has the right to choose whatever courses one would like.

[Red Finch]

Ahh...as one of my teachers calls it "Social control through work sheets".

The problem you are facing is not the school work itself but the teachers. I have just graduated highschool last year and have returned for an extra year. The reason I came back is because I do find school to be fun, as do most of the people I go to school with. People LIKE to be at school.

They aren't rivited by the stumlating fill in the blank sheets, or overwhelmed by joy when the next unit test comes up. The things that people talk about the most at school is the teachers.

Our schools here in Canada are drastically underfunded. Our school itself is probably the worst physically out of the 7 or 8 highschools in the area. But we have some of the best teachers, the best coachs and an awesome administration team that does make school fun.

School is an experience not just about learning. It is also about socializing and spending time with your friends. Really, what people don't do is get involved with their school. I know that when you get more involved you will find school more interesting. Join a club...if there isn't someting good, start one. Try out for a sports team. Help with fundraising. School is a social event that you attend.

It is easy to blam all your problems on "everything is designed to make us machines". I think that is way to narrow minded. School is what you make of it.

As far as the courses themselves go, they get better as you get older. You sound like any of the grade nines I talk to at my school...why is that? They only get one course choice. But there are lots of courses that will capture your interest. Philosophy, Anthropology, Sociology, Politics, World Issues, Geography - the social sciences in general.

I don't think the school system is the best - nor do the teachers (especially the ones I know). But learning is a necessary part of life and these subjects are there to give you a general look at things so that you can choose your future and be something you want to be. Ambition makes school interesting.

[Lord Lexington]

there are other ways, fortunately, others school where the system is not the same,i'm talking about alternatives schools where all the school running is completely different from the schools you've met before. In those schools and more particulary in one, in Paris (France), the school is run by the students and not by the teachers and there is no headmaster. This is an experience quite special but there, the teachers are very comprehensive and very nice, they are really open-minded and you can say what you think, they won't tell to screw away and do your fucking exam, in fact they will listen to you and they will help you to resolve your problems and this is, for me, the interesting point of this school.
Now, thanks to this school, i motived for the study.
bye.

[Red Finch]

Perhaps thats why our school is such a good school. We have teachers that will always take the time to listen to you. The administration aren't breathing down your necks. It really makes the students feel like they belong in the school. Acedemically, we are in the top 50-100 schools in all of Ontario (out of like 700 and something). Sports wise, our school is one of the top in the city. Our quaterback from last year is said to be one of the best QBs in all of Canada.

Everyone just sort of fits in here which is nice. I am aware not every school is like that. I really wish everyone could have equal education opportunites because school really is a great thing.

[Lord Lexington]

It's right, the school is truly a great thing especially when the teachers listen to you and when you feel really involved in your school and i take my exemple in my alternative school when i get involved in the administration ( because in this school, students also have to run the administration) i feel truly motivated in my study and to pass my exam and that's great but unfortunately in France, people don't really like our school, they think we are a school of revolutionaries and some even think that we are a sect(!) but you know, in those days, some people are still not very clever but maybe one day others schools like this one will open and there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Continuez le combat !

[refuse_resist]

The main purpose of schooling, especially high school, is to allow the bourgeois a firm grasp on those it is about to exploit. People go to school and learn so much that they won't need in the latter part of their lives. High school is the perfect example of this. Instead of someone having to waste so much time there they can already be getting trained in whatever speciality they wish to choose.

[Red Finch]

I fully support you and your school. You are lucky to have such an opportunity. I hope things do change - getting involved with your education is so important no-a-days. The government can only meet you half way even at its best. You have to take those remaining steps on your own.

[Red Finch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 09:59 PM
The main purpose of schooling, especially high school, is to allow the bourgeois a firm grasp on those it is about to exploit. People go to school and learn so much that they won't need in the latter part of their lives. High school is the perfect example of this. Instead of someone having to waste so much time there they can already be getting trained in whatever speciality they wish to choose.
I personally don't believe that. I don't believe that any knowledge is useless at all.

There is no guarentee what you will experience in life as you set your own path and follow it. Math, you may never use it directly, but understanding the concepts of it will help you understand other things in life through an indirect way.

Strengthening the mind is so important that I can't stress it enough. Perhaps this is just my 'Buddhist-spirit' talking, but I truely believe that self-enlightenment is the ultimate achievement in life. I feel I have much more respect for someone who is willing to spend time and learn a variety of skills and information then someone who gets caught in a secular way of thinking.

What I feel is the problem with at least my school system, is that they teach this secular way of thinking too much. There isn't enough of a chance to step out and get the broad understanding of the world. This may be part of the problem that Anti was having. He said he enjoys all the stuff he learns outside of school. Well, I know I learned some of that stuff he is talking about IN my school.

I mean, if 'bourgeios' really wanted to 'expoit' these people - they wouldn't waste their time on useless information. They would teach them the skills they need - not a bunch of useless crap. The school system isnt there to harm people as much as you hate to admit it - it is there to give peolple an opportunity. Teachers really do want to see the kids succeed.

Here is the problem also with people getting trained with what they want to do off the start. Human beings are the least static of all creatures on this earth. We follow very loose patterns and the human mind is capible of split second reations which could go against their entire moral basis. What I am saying is, things change, as do people. You can't risk going hardcore into biology in grade 9 just to find out in grade 12 you don't want to become a doctor anymore, but instead you want to be an artist. There is four years of your life wasted.

[DaCuBaN]

I mean, if 'bourgeios' really wanted to 'expoit' these people - they wouldn't waste their time on useless information. They would teach them the skills they need - not a bunch of useless crap. The school system isnt there to harm people as much as you hate to admit it - it is there to give peolple an opportunity. Teachers really do want to see the kids succeed.

Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment above, I must point out that in the UK there is a growing trend of "skillseekers" and the like: Initiatives designed to streamline less academic children into the trades: Plumbing; Building; Heating and so on.

If this isn't preventing millions of people (in the western world) from advancing themselves to a level of self-enlightenment (in whatever form you see it), then I don't know what is.

[FatFreeMilk]

School is the place where kids should be getting an "education for the future" that is, to prepare us for careers and not just jobs. But the American school system is almost kind of backwards. We learn shit in high school that other countries learn in middle school. You graduate "high school" at a younger age and are able to attend universities earlier if you choose to.
It's not all that bad though, at least in California. The whole curriculum is based on standards that everybody has to know. But if you live in an area that isn't very "rich" then your education isn't that important to the district. Your school does worse on state tests as a whole so if you do want to attend a university they put you down that much lower in the pile just by looking at how your school does on state tests. Luckily for me, my school was in top three in my county, the number one spot goes to the richest school...

School will always be somewhat important here cause you need to have informed citizens in order to have a functioning "democracy".

[Red Finch]

The skillseeker trend is happening here in Canada as well. There are lots of colleges that come in and try to convince people to go into those fields by promising high wages and jobs.

But that choice is still for the kids to make. Everyone is given equal opportunity to achieve a university level. In fact, classes are set up as U, U/C, or C or Workplace streams. U is university bound and most accepted by Universities. To even get into University, you need to have at least 6 of the U or U/C credits at a certain level. Some people however just cant operate at a U level capacity - the courses are harder.

I tutor a grade 9 english classes designed to help kids with learning disabilities. These kids have been hand picked as having problems. A lot of these kids still want to go to University, but trades work is all they can do. The kids I work with does however have the potential to achieve a higher level of education and this course is designed to help with that. This program is starting to be popular within the schools here - our school was a little late to jump on the bandwagon.

I don't blame this on the school system - most of the problem with these kids is that they have a horrible home life and no guidence at all. They aren't being 'streemlined', they are just looking for their place in the world - some of them will never acheive more then this.

I personally blame the breakdown of society's morals and the family system. I mean, you notice a difference between the kids who have a good home life and the kids who don't.

It is so easy just to blame the big man all the time. It makes it easier to sleep at night. I think we need to look at ourselves, our children and our parents and truely determine who is to blame here. I mean, it isn't that hard to sit down and help your child with their homework each night. It isn't hard to turn off the crappy television programs or corrupt music that teaches kids that money is everywhere and lack of education means you can have everything.

[Red Finch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 11:09 PM
We learn shit in high school that other countries learn in middle school.
That is so true. My friend moved here a few years back from Iran and was in my math class. He said he had done this stuff already like...3 or 4 years before. this was in grade 10....

[ComradeChris]

Don't get me wrong, I think learning is a great thing. But I think we should go back to an ancient Greek model, where people select the things they want to learn. The way it is centered today, it is around creating docile bodies. Things like thinking outside the box have to wait until Post-secondary (at least that was the case in my school). You're told what you have to learn, and have dealines to meet. It's very disciplined and forces people to conform to the society they're in.

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 12:01 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think learning is a great thing. But I think we should go back to an ancient Greek model, where people select the things they want to learn. The way it is centered today, it is around creating docile bodies. Things like thinking outside the box have to wait until Post-secondary (at least that was the case in my school). You're told what you have to learn, and have dealines to meet. It's very disciplined and forces people to conform to the society they're in.
Sorry it took me so long to reply, I had to go to school :D

But I agree, Comrade Chris.

[Latifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 09:59 PM
The main purpose of schooling, especially high school, is to allow the bourgeois a firm grasp on those it is about to exploit. People go to school and learn so much that they won't need in the latter part of their lives. High school is the perfect example of this. Instead of someone having to waste so much time there they can already be getting trained in whatever speciality they wish to choose.
The whole reason high school education is so broad is because most students don't have a clue what they want to do with their lives. I don't ( yet ) so the pricks who believe they have the right to try and displine gave me a wide range of bullshit subjects to experiment with. High school sucks, frankly.

[Latifa]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 21 2004, 10:13 PM
Teachers really do want to see the kids succeed.
Do you ever stop to think about the teachers who claim to be for the kids, but are always looking for ways to milk the system dry to cut funding to the schools and re-direct it to their wallets? Cappie pigs, I know plenty of them. The problem is that teachers are human beings and have human flaws, which often seem unacceptable to an optimal learning enviroment so that we suddenly dont get these 'happy students' because they are all fucked off with their teachers, so they assume they are all stupid and reject them as 'slackers' and try to dump them with the less intellegent so they dont learn as much and they are even more bored... what a fucked up way to treat the future generation! I have been told I'll get dumped with the stupid kids in school because I don't work hard enough. Sorry if I rambled. :(

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 04:19 AM
Do you ever stop to think about the teachers who claim to be for the kids, but are always looking for ways to milk the system dry to cut funding to the schools and re-direct it to their wallets? Cappie pigs, I know plenty of them. The problem is that teachers are human beings and have human flaws, which often seem unacceptable to an optimal learning enviroment so that we suddenly dont get these 'happy students' because they are all fucked off with their teachers, so they assume they are all stupid and reject them as 'slackers' and try to dump them with the less intellegent so they dont learn as much and they are even more bored... what a fucked up way to treat the future generation! I have been told I'll get dumped with the stupid kids in school because I don't work hard enough. Sorry if I rambled. :(
Where I live, the garbage collectors make more than the teachers.. and the garbage collectors do a very shoddy job, they throw the barrels everywhere(into my yard, the middle of the street, at cars and pedestrians), and generally try their hardest to break the barrels. ( i once got hit by a flying barrel, the dude threw it off the moving dump truck-- very disgruntled)

I think you're wrong, the teachers aren't trying to milk the system dry, they really are horribly underpayed. Most of them I've encountered have ahd their own quirks, but have been generally resonable.

[Red Finch]

I agree with Anti. Teachers are really underpayed for what they do.

They aren't actually allowed to strike either. So a few years back, they had to try the next best thing - they started doing everything by the book. No extra-curicular, no clubs, no extra afterschool help. They had to protest in this way. I can tell you, when you have all the teachers playing by the book, school becomes a miserable place and you realize just how much work they actually do for us on a day to day basis out of their own personal interest.

[MiniOswald]

Am i the only one who hates school cos im no good+ fed up with the work?

personally i got nothing against my teachers, bar mr edwards the welsh prick, seems he has a problem with cynics and rather somewhat a desire to put me on a detention. well if he wants to torture himself for 3 hours on a saturday morning with 'the cynical kid' im up for it.

[ComradeChris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 12:39 PM
Am i the only one who hates school cos im no good+ fed up with the work?

personally i got nothing against my teachers, bar mr edwards the welsh prick, seems he has a problem with cynics and rather somewhat a desire to put me on a detention. well if he wants to torture himself for 3 hours on a saturday morning with 'the cynical kid' im up for it.
The work, is as I've said, much like an office job. You have deadlines to meet, and harsh penalties if those deadlines are not met. It's all about creating docile bodies. I think the school system should be like one big university, where students can choose whatever they want to learn.

[DaCuBaN]

personally i got nothing against my teachers, bar mr edwards the welsh prick, seems he has a problem with cynics and rather somewhat a desire to put me on a detention. well if he wants to torture himself for 3 hours on a saturday morning with 'the cynical kid' im up for it.

Something I toyed with and learned far too late in my school days: just don't go! :D You'd be surprised (in the scottish school system anyway) how far you can push your luck on this front. What are they going to do: Kick you out of school for not going to detention, when you felt it was unjustified?

If you do wish to try this, I advise you research your local area first: For all I know, you could be hung drawn and quartered for not turning up to detention - ever ;)

[Latifa]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 22 2004, 04:42 AM
Where I live, the garbage collectors make more than the teachers.. and the garbage collectors do a very shoddy job, they throw the barrels everywhere(into my yard, the middle of the street, at cars and pedestrians), and generally try their hardest to break the barrels. ( i once got hit by a flying barrel, the dude threw it off the moving dump truck-- very disgruntled)

I think you're wrong, the teachers aren't trying to milk the system dry, they really are horribly underpayed. Most of them I've encountered have ahd their own quirks, but have been generally resonable.
Where I live, nurses are also horribly underpayed. But they go to work everyday, do their best and make our hospitals better places because of it. They knuckle down because they know their work is important and they can't afford to slack off. Teachers sadly do not know how important their work is.

[psychoche]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 21 2004, 04:18 AM
As I high school student, there is no doubt in my mind that I do not enjoy school. I do not value most of the things I learn there, and regard it merely as an unpaying "job" of sorts. I am not alone. Next to every kid I've ever met, shares this same opinion... we're all miserable in school. The feeling I get is one I imagine a guy working in a cubicle gets... just doing work because someone is making me. The learning i truly enjoy, is that I do outside of school, reading books, and utilizing the internet. Can someone explain to me why school is like this? Does it tie into our capitalist society?
dude i feel the same way . . and one of my teachers said that High School is just to keep us from goin out into the "real" world.

[DaCuBaN]

Teachers sadly do not know how important their work is.

I'm friends with many teachers (you'd be surprised how many pot smoking school teachers there are ;) ), some as far afield as Ghana - I can tell you right now that what you are saying is a crass generalisation - and utterly false.

Teaching doesn't pay well, and it's not an easy job. You don't get into teaching unless either you have no other choice (and I can't think what possible scenario this could take, unless you were a "failed" university educated capitalist) or you geniunely wish to teach.

You've got to meet teachers halfway; they're only human after all.

[ComradeChris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 02:08 AM

I'm friends with many teachers (you'd be surprised how many pot smoking school teachers there are ;) ), some as far afield as Ghana - I can tell you right now that what you are saying is a crass generalisation - and utterly false.
Speaking of Ghana, I might be studying abroad there for the SPanish courses I'll be taking :D . Either there or Latin America (Cuba). I hope moreso Cuba :D . I'll give Castro A big hug for his fall, and then discuss politics with him. What can I say, I'm a dreamer :lol: .

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 21 2004, 04:18 AM
As I high school student, there is no doubt in my mind that I do not enjoy school. I do not value most of the things I learn there, and regard it merely as an unpaying "job" of sorts. I am not alone. Next to every kid I've ever met, shares this same opinion... we're all miserable in school. The feeling I get is one I imagine a guy working in a cubicle gets... just doing work because someone is making me. The learning i truly enjoy, is that I do outside of school, reading books, and utilizing the internet. Can someone explain to me why school is like this? Does it tie into our capitalist society?
Schooling is a very neglected issue.

Those of us who have recently been through the current public school systems, more often than not, complain about the boredom of the content, and the hipocracy of the authority. Many of our elders consider it a right of passage, and our concerns are therefore dissreguarded.

Our current apparatus for education was based around the original christian schooling method: authoritarian instruction, enforced by cruel and reactionary discipline. Our education system is a place where liberalism has actually changed things (slightly).

The current generation is confronted with an antique and customary form of education in school. Outside school they are faced with a modern world where none of the so called realities, forced upon them through education, ring true. Before it didn't matter because if you fucked up you would get caned. Now, kids will continue to fuck up (as is easy to do when you are so overwhelmingly misseducated), but instead of allowing a cane to whip them into gear, they are faced with social alienation through failure. When they see someone such as George Bush in such a powerful position, even they begin to doubt there own apperent shortcommings. They stop giving a shit, and drop-out. Either that, or they stop giving a shit, do the work as told, and graduate in an ignorant bliss.

In actuallity however, none of this can possibly be changed without more funding to our schools. Sai lavee!!!

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 21 2004, 10:13 PM
I personally don't believe that. I don't believe that any knowledge is useless at all.

There is no guarentee what you will experience in life as you set your own path and follow it. Math, you may never use it directly, but understanding the concepts of it will help you understand other things in life through an indirect way.

Strengthening the mind is so important that I can't stress it enough. Perhaps this is just my 'Buddhist-spirit' talking, but I truely believe that self-enlightenment is the ultimate achievement in life. I feel I have much more respect for someone who is willing to spend time and learn a variety of skills and information then someone who gets caught in a secular way of thinking.

What I feel is the problem with at least my school system, is that they teach this secular way of thinking too much. There isn't enough of a chance to step out and get the broad understanding of the world. This may be part of the problem that Anti was having. He said he enjoys all the stuff he learns outside of school. Well, I know I learned some of that stuff he is talking about IN my school.

I mean, if 'bourgeios' really wanted to 'expoit' these people - they wouldn't waste their time on useless information. They would teach them the skills they need - not a bunch of useless crap. The school system isnt there to harm people as much as you hate to admit it - it is there to give peolple an opportunity. Teachers really do want to see the kids succeed.

Here is the problem also with people getting trained with what they want to do off the start. Human beings are the least static of all creatures on this earth. We follow very loose patterns and the human mind is capible of split second reations which could go against their entire moral basis. What I am saying is, things change, as do people. You can't risk going hardcore into biology in grade 9 just to find out in grade 12 you don't want to become a doctor anymore, but instead you want to be an artist. There is four years of your life wasted.
I didn't neccessarily mean that. What I was trying to say is that instead of having certain things forced on to you, it would be much more suitable to be able to choose what you want to learn. Something that's going to help you with certain things in your life doesn't necassarily have to be from a certain particular subject you aren't going to ever use, but from what you think would help you later on in your life. You should try going to high school in California and then tell me what you think.

In many high schools these days, they have armed gaurds on campasses, surround schools with fences and lock the gates, etc. It really does mess with people, psychologically. Instead of having the feeling of being at a school you will feel more like you're in a prison and being institutionalized.

A friend of mine was telling me that at his school in Texas they literally try and force religion and nationalism on you. They hang up crucifixes, as well as force people to say the pledge of allegiance. If they refuse then they are subject to disciplinary action. This isn't just the case in Texas as well, but also in many other parts of the country.

Anyway, I would really recommend this...

Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich (http://www.pkimaging.com/fil/desch/)

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 08:47 AM
In many high schools these days, they have armed gaurds on campasses, surround schools with fences and lock the gates, etc. It really does mess with people, psychologically. Instead of having the feeling of being at a school you will feel more like you're in a prison and being institutionalized.

A friend of mine was telling me that at his school in Texas they literally try and force religion and nationalism on you. They hang up crucifixes, as well as force people to say the pledge of allegiance. If they refuse then they are subject to disciplinary action. This isn't just the case in Texas as well, but also in many other parts of the country.

Anyway, I would really recommend this...

Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich (http://www.pkimaging.com/fil/desch/)
It's a good thing our grandparents went overseas to fight fascism! :rolleyes: :angry:

[redtrigger]

Well I guess I will put in my two cents on this.

I think the main problem with public schooling, aside from underpaid educators, is that society does not let teachers teach. One of my teachers in high school, in particular, would routinely fail students who did nothing but look up facts for papers. He use to say, "You have a mind because you were meant to think, if I wanted facts I would use an encyclopedia." Many students and in particular parents hated him. You could not bullshit which is what I would venture to say most students do on papers. He forced you outside of your comfort zone, to come out of yourself and see the world for what it was. He is the reason I am a communist. We had to right a paper on the American Dream, it was right after 9/11. I did the research, at first to back up why it was still alive. But the more I read the more I realised there was never a dream. He made me open my eyes and upon reading the paper told me while he did not fundamentally agree with me, at least I was not afraid to think.

This is the way teachers should be, but far too often, learning is awash in a sea of politics. We do not allow teachers to teach, and students have suffered. It is not about learning but about grades, and I find this extremely sad.

[katie mccready]

My School's we have primery and secondary schools and primary was the worced of the lot, im dyslexic and all my primary school just egnored it stuck me in the bottem english grupe and just let my mined to rott, and i was clever i was explaning Marx to techers when i was 9.
my secondary school, there was this techer hear Mr.stelin he was a right bully of a techer he would shout at you for geting a question wrong. but there is on selvasion at this school a socilist teacher (strange i know) shes in the labor party when my grandad was a councilman when the ***** (tacher) was ledder. but if it wasn't for che-lives.com and the socilist techer i would have comited sueside by now as every one elce are mindless conformiting shit heads and thats puting it nicely.


sorry for the spelling mistakes. :D :unsure:

[MiniOswald]

It's a good thing our grandparents went overseas to fight fascism!


"Her old man, he don't like blacks and queers, yet he's proud he beat the Nazis...how queer"

Btw Unfortunatly Katie I find alot of primary schools arent too equipped or ready to help dyslexics like yourself

[Dyst]

I've got many great teachers, one who is a socialist, and once actually said this (in Norwegian, of course:)
"You've already learned what you really need to, in order to survive here in life. I don't really see why you bother hanging around here anymore... It's not like anythings happening in here!"

Lol, the students just looked at each other and was quiet for a couple of seconds before another (more conservative) teacher came in and everybody saluted as normal... :lol:

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 21 2004, 04:18 AM
As I high school student, there is no doubt in my mind that I do not enjoy school. I do not value most of the things I learn there, and regard it merely as an unpaying "job" of sorts. I am not alone. Next to every kid I've ever met, shares this same opinion... we're all miserable in school. The feeling I get is one I imagine a guy working in a cubicle gets... just doing work because someone is making me. The learning i truly enjoy, is that I do outside of school, reading books, and utilizing the internet. Can someone explain to me why school is like this? Does it tie into our capitalist society?
It's an almost natural desire to reject authority. Young people are often called rebelleous by their parents, governments, instutions like the church or by apparent child "officals" like social or youth workers.

Capitalism has developed a system of existence which we measure in terms of success and failure. When you're young and care free the idea of achieving is inconsequential. All we want to do is have fun, get drunk, take drugs, have sex, read books we know our parents will hate us reading and think what we want.

When you get older, usually what happens is those young people, the radicals, the drug takers get caught in this web of having to achieve in order to somehow prove that you are a good human. That you have succeeded.

Success epitmises everything in society which we on the left hate. It represents control, it represents authority, it represents exploitation and it represents subserviance and the removal of individuality. School is the centre of that process. it's the beginning of your transition into the relm of success.

Hating school is simply a reaction to control, to authority, to exploitation, subserviance and the squashing of individuality. School teaches you how to succeed, how to get a job so you can earn money, get a mortgage, start a family, pay your taxes, by a nice car and go on holiday, all so you can tell your neighbours about it. Look at your parents! No doubt when they where 16, 17, they experimented with drugs, they had sex, they listend to music all the old people hated, and I bet now they are those people who are saving for their retirement because it's responsable!

School does not allow you to be an individual, it doesn't allow you to develop and explore and experiment and experience and that's why young people hate it. young people want to live their lives, have fun, experience and learn on there own time. Why is that wrong? I don't think it is, and that's why communism offers such a progressive alternative.

I would say rebel against your school as much as possible, if you don't, you'll end up like your parents.

Embrace Failure (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25991&hl=embrace+the+failure)

[Blade]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:33 AM
Sai lavee!!!
I'm sure the sentence you were looking for was: "C'est la vie!".
;)
It's french.

EDIT: Sometimes it pays to pay attention in class.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by Blade+Nov 17 2004, 04:44 PM--> (Blade @ Nov 17 2004, 04:44 PM)
[email protected] 12 2004, 06:33 AM
Sai lavee!!!
I'm sure the sentence you were looking for was: "C'est la vie!".
;)
It's french.

EDIT: Sometimes it pays to pay attention in class. [/b]
Yes of course it's French. Paying attention in school wouldn't help me to spell in a language that is never used around me. :P

[Lord Lexington]

et si, le français est parler içi !

[Raisa]

<<School does not allow you to be an individual, it doesn&#39;t allow you to develop and explore and experiment and experience and that&#39;s why young people hate it.>>

It seems like in the end all anyone ever learns is to count, sit in their seats and be good listeners.

[choekiewoekie]

I am a schoolteacher in the Netherlands. I teach my homelanguage to 12-16 year olds, and i have a clear vision on this.
Here in the Netherlands the schools are very much influenced by Liberalism. You see it not only because coorporations have more to say in the schoolsystem, but also in the way students are being tested. It is all about numbers, grades, quick and fast learning. There is no time to develop your self, while this is a very important thing when your on school. It is more about getting good grades as fast as possible. Everything is messured, and it is stimulated to work as independent as possible. It is not about how you develope yourself as a person, but about your competence.
School is no longer a safe place to study and find out who you are, but it is an institution based on all kind of rules and regulations. The world of systems has made it an unsafe place, only usefull to prepare you for the Libaral world.
No wonder we create individuals only thinking about profits and there own interests, nothing about solidarity and finding your place in this world. All liberalism.
It is not only this way in education, but also in the healthcare etc. No time, only rules. No persons, only numbers etc. How can you feel safe and at home in such a place?

Besides that, a lot of children are not at there best sitting at a table listening to a teacher all day. But even the schools who do someting about this, and who let the students choose what they want to learn themselves, are ruled by Liberalism. Because it is all based on a strange thought, it is not possible to make school a warm place to be in.

[Eastside Revolt]

This thread makes me want to drive infront of high schools handing out molotovs, bumping pink floyd.

[choekiewoekie]

:P Haha&#33;

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:58 AM
This thread makes me want to drive infront of high schools handing out molotovs, bumping pink floyd.
Haha... Same here, my friend, same here. Isn&#39;t that every young persons dream really?

[RevolverNo9]

Yes the situation is terrible. In the UK the grades machine has turned all the more monstrous as now both years of sixth form (the last two years) have massive public examinations. What used to be a year of explornig one&#39;s subject with a degree of freedom before A-Level is now three terms of churning through unchallenging but substantial and tedious work.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Lo Choekiewoekie, nice to see a comrade from Holland.

It&#39;s so sick to see how economically aimed the education system is. I have been in both the higher level (vwo) and the lower level (mavo) and there is a clear difference in what they teach the children and they want them to become. That&#39;s really sad.

teacher leave those kids alone&#33;

[katie mccready]

i Had this teacher (hes left now yippy) who must have had low self estem or somthing, he trtedevery one like shit hes was pised all the time and he would bolock you for geting a question wrong. he souded a bit like killroy (there both bastards) and techers allways contridict them selfs my sociology teacher she is a socilist but when she was i france the queen was there and she went all imperilisd. but i do live in the worsed area in england not that im compalning or anything.

[EGisJUICE]

Public schools in the US don&#39;t educate. They indoctrinate. US schools don&#39;t teach any type of critical thinking and choke the natural curiosity out of students.

Because of their insistance that things be standardized and taught exactly the same way to everyone, the least information and knowledge is taught to the students. The refusal to let students who grasp and learn the material move on and forcing them to move at the pace of the slowest students and by the timetable of some standardized cirriculum turns school into a prison you go to belocked up with idiots in everyday.

For example, I dropped out of High School in the middle of tenth grade. I went and got my High School diploma (not GED HS diploma) by taking most of the classes at adult school in a lab format where you go at your pace and teach yourself from the book. I managed to complete all the classes I needed and have my diploma over a year before I would&#39;ve been finished with HS if I had to go everyday to regular High School.

If I could go and reduce the time I had to go by that much how many other people could? Requiring the classes to be spread over a certain amount of time and taught at a certain pace punishes students who could have the work done and been through for being smart enough/able to get it done much faster.

[EGisJUICE]

It seems like in the end all anyone ever learns is to count, sit in their seats and be good listeners.


Some of us learned how your life will be made as difficult as possible if you dare to stand up for yourself when confronted by those teachers who think that their job is to torment the students. These teachers are the ones that don&#39;t like when you know something they didn&#39;t think you did, and resent you for not being as stupid as they thought you were. They hate students who can think for themselves and will stand up to their bullshit.

[katie mccready]

In my school you not only have to go, but if you ever show difference you are tormented not just by the children but also by the teachers. if you ever stand up for your self you are given an instant removel so you just have to sit there and take it. in my case i just get my head down and just try to belend in with the wall.

get this in england you can legaly smoke at 16 but our school if your ever found with any tobaco even if your just outside of school you get completly batterd for it.

[Activist]

Also kind of going off topic, but I live here in Canada, and I hate how they just exclude all aspects of Socialism/Communism out of all the history books. Is this typical propagated Western thinking or what? Everytime I try to tell someone I am a Socialist, I get bashed and get called a Fascist. Not only is school boring, but it doesn&#39;t even teach the kids the right facts. Someone should seriously go and rewrite these textbooks. Luckily though, I had a history teacher who just dived into all the aspects of Communism, from Marx to the collapse of the Soviet Union. He basically got rid of the textbooks and taught us himself. That I liked.

[Taiga]

Well.... my school experience was pretty intriguing :lol:
I started to study while living in USSR and graduated in the "independent" state. Gee...... that was something.... Learning the USSR anthem and poems about Lenin in the primary school and reading new post-Soviet manuals on history during last years where Soviets were mostly called "occupants".
School was the place that taught me to not believe manuals and teachers, because it&#39;s all the matter of state policy. <_<

[Anarchist Freedom]

Heh I fucking hate school where do you think I am now &#33;&#33;??? I feel that Ive learned 1000XX times more outside of school then the bullshit ive learned in school.

[Major. Rudiger]

Luckily though, I had a history teacher who just dived into all the aspects of Communism, from Marx to the collapse of the Soviet Union. He basically got rid of the textbooks and taught us himself. That I liked.

Wow i hope i have the same teacher. But i forgot if i choice auncient history or modern history. OH well i find out on wedsday.