Why not live your dream?

[anonymouscuban]

If you love communism so much, why not move to Cuba and stop living in a dream???? I mean, it's not like it's on another planet.

Make sure you update everyone on how much you love it there... oh wait, you'll need access to the Internet so that probably won't happen. You can send a letter... just make sure you watch what you write. You wouldn't want the person screening your mail to keep it from leaving Cuba.

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 08:37 PM
If you love communism so much, why not move to Cuba and stop living in a dream???? I mean, it's not like it's on another planet.

Make sure you update everyone on how much you love it there... oh wait, you'll need access to the Internet so that probably won't happen. You can send a letter... just make sure you watch what you write. You wouldn't want the person screening your mail to keep it from leaving Cuba.
I sense impending restriction... but i'll answer you challenge anyways. MLK said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Which is why we must continue our struggle worldwide. Second, Cuba is not, in fact, a full Communist government.

And you clearly are not cuban, you are American. Want to talk Censorship?

How about Bush's free speech zones?

How about not allowing any dissenting people into political convetions?

How about the "Patriot" Act?

Oh, and I had to add this: You're quite clearly one of those idiots woh says, " if you hate America so much, why don't you move to Russia?"

My reply is this quote: Frederick Douglass:

"Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 08:37 PM
If you love communism so much, why not move to Cuba and stop living in a dream???? I mean, it's not like it's on another planet.

Make sure you update everyone on how much you love it there... oh wait, you'll need access to the Internet so that probably won't happen. You can send a letter... just make sure you watch what you write. You wouldn't want the person screening your mail to keep it from leaving Cuba.
First, Cuba is not a communist country - nor does it have a real communist
society. It is actually a Socialist State with a socialist government. Moreover,
a real communist society would not have a state - as the state creates the
basis of Class society. The workers would be controlling the mode of product
-ion - not a hierarchial state structure. The worker's would produce things by
use and need - not commodity production (i.e. the production of items and
things for the purpose of profit and sale.)

[2ndgenSocialist]

Cuba may not be the greatest example but there are other countries out there that are socialist/ other leftist.

Just to name a few where Socialism works and works great.

France
Germany
Britain(including some of its commonwealth nations, Australia, NZ sometimes labeled as Socialist)
Spain


there are a few more but you get the idea.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 10:38 PM
Cuba may not be the greatest example but there are other countries out there that are socialist/ other leftist.

Just to name a few where Socialism works and works great.

France
Germany
Britain(including some of its commonwealth nations, Australia, NZ sometimes labeled as Socialist)
Spain


there are a few more but you get the idea.
What are you talking about, those nations are not socilists

[Rockfan]

I live in NZ and at the moment the labour party are in government and being center left they are basicly just watered down socilism.

[Palmares]

Australia isn't though.

Australia is slowly going more and more right-wing the longer the Liberal Party (which is the conservative party) stays in power.

Recent Australian Election (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29707)

[apathy maybe]

(Way to kick post count up! Yay!)

Even if this person never ever replies to this, I will say it for others who say the same damn stupid things.
1) No country is what I want it to be.
2) Australia is pretty good compared to a lot of other countries
3) I would move to Cuba but for three things, 1, all my family and friends are in Australia, 2, I don't have enough money to move to Cuba, 3, I don't speak Spanish
4) I am trying to move Australia to socialism. Why move to Cuba when they already are socialist?

[anonymouscuban]

Ok... I was never really going to come back to this thread or this board, as one of you mentioned, but I felt compelled to write.

First and foremost, I am Cuban. I am American born but first generation. And if you know anyone that is of Cuban decent, they are always Cuban first. We are a very proud people; proud of culture and diverse heritage. However, I am very American as well and proud of it, as is every Cuban immigrant or native born Cuban I know.

Second, I will not argue the point made that Cuba is not a Communist nation. Either way, I have an deep seeded resentment for the Cuban government, Fidel, your beloved che, and anyone else who supports what has become of my parents country. Most of my family is still in Cuba. They live like shit, worse than my dogs live. And don't bother standing on your soap box to blame the American embargo for what has occurred in Cuba. That is bullshit. Every Cuban here knows it, and every Cuban in Cuba thinks and whispers it. It is the fault of a heartless, spineless dictator, and a bunch of bullshit communist propaganda. Fidel is a hypocrite. His spiels are full of contempt towards capitalist America yet he opens his arms to American tourist dollars. What kind of crap is that.

No one in Cuba has the right to bare arms. No one in Cuba has the right to criticize the government in an open arena. No one in Cuba has the right to leave if they so choose. Freedoms you and I have here in this, what you call crappy Capitalist nation. My parents came here with nothing, two children and another on the way. They were able to achieve things that they could have never dreamed of achieving in Cuba, under communist rule.

You sit here on this board and openly criticize your governments and praise those that would not allow you one minute on this site. They would shut you down as quickly as you can bat an eye. I am so tired of all of you middleclass communist, spouting out your rhetoric while wearing a che shirt you bought at the mall... While sucking down a cappuccino at Startbucks and typing away on your $3000 notebook and listening to JZ on your fucking IPod.

For that person who said they would not live in Cuba because they would miss their family and they don't have enough money and whatever other excuse. How about the country families that I know of, my own included, that had to flee oppression, leaving mothers, fathers, sisters, and daughters behind. And what money do you need to live amongst your fellow brothers, where every is equal and you can share all the wealth. Can you not sell all your filthy capitalist threads to pay for your fare to the brotherland. Bullshit and you know it.

Now, before you all pull the trigger on your flame throwers, hear this. The ideals spouted in many socialist prose is beautiful, a utopian nation. Who want not want to live where every is equal. Where there is no hunger, homeless, crime, injustices. A applaud some of you for having those desires. However, this is fiction. It DOES NOT WORK IN PRACTICE. Man is selfish by nature. We want what’s ours. Plain and simple. This is the way it is now and will be for ever. This is what has happened to MY CUBA!

Lastly, I do not hate you. You are all entitled to your opinion as I am my own. I would not even show any contempt towards you if I ever met. On the contrary, I would invite you into my home, feed you dinner, and hope for a nice debate on our differing opinions. I actually admire those of you who truly live by what you believe in. Not because my beliefs are the same but because you are not like most of the hypocrite so-called Commi Comándates I know. But I cannot stand by and listen to some little punkass 18yo, that still lives at home, who has everything handed to them by their hardworking parents, rant and rave about how fucked up this country is and how much they hate their capitalist parents. If it weren't for capitalism, you would not have shit. If it weren't for people who believed in this country and died for it, you would have a pot to piss in. You would have the freedom to be the hypocrites that you are. So to all of you that fit this bill, go to your room without dinner... and no TV for you tonight!

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Ok, first to adress the cappuccino arguement: I do not own a laptop. My computer is 4 years old, and I bought it myself. I've been to Starbucks.... once.On someone else's dime. haven't gone back, because a) I dont like coffee, and b) It's way too expensive even if I did. I don't own and ipod, I saved for about 6 months, and still didn't have enough cash, so I bought a mini disc player. I've never heard any of JZ's music.

On a diffrent note, true, there never has been a Communist nation, and all of them that claim to be communist end up as dictatorships. But, my friend, I ask you, how many Democracys are there in the world? REAL Democracys? Zero. And how many governments claiming to be Democratic have turned into dictatorships? That, my friend is a long list, & Iraq will soon be added to this list.

The point basically is, that even if Communism were an unachievable ideal, which it is not, then why should we not strive to achieve this ideal? Why should we not be angered when women and children in China/Taiwann/ Idonesia/Guatemalla/etc. are paid cents on what an american worker would get while working in offensive, dangerous and dirty conidtions, and making just enough to live on, simply so some sociopathic greedy buisness tycoon can line his pockets with even more money? We can not ever be content with people being treated badly and being used simply to increase someone's profit. To resign yourself saying, "It can't be any better than this," portrays you as weak person. We must fight, always, no matter if the goal is unachievable, as every small victory towards that goal is a great thing for humanity.

[Palmares]

That was quite interesting.

However Castro has never proclaimed to be communist. He is a nationalist, and a socialist. Various people on here may like him, but to me, he is a dictator. That bears no relation to an ideal to me.

I must note that I find Cuba to be a better country than many others though. I would not live in the US for the death of me. There is only the appearance of freedom in that country. The way people are brainwashed there is phenomenal. Cuba also has a much (much) better health and education system than the US. Oh for the pseudo-meritocracy. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Anti-Capitalist+--> (Anti-Capitalist)...and all of them that claim to be communist end up as dictatorships[/b]

There have been two (representatively) democractically elected socialist/communist leaders. Allende in Chile was ousted by the US-supported forces and replaced by General Pinochet who did end up being a dictator for a few decades.


Originally posted by [email protected]
I am so tired of all of you middleclass communist, spouting out your rhetoric while wearing a che shirt you bought at the mall... While sucking down a cappuccino at Startbucks and typing away on your $3000 notebook and listening to JZ on your fucking IPod.

You obviously don't know anything about the people on this forum, nor about the leftist movement at large.

I do believe you are referring to posers. <_<


anonymouscuban
It DOES NOT WORK IN PRACTICE. Man is selfish by nature.

Ian proved to me otherwise.

His arguement (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6227&view=findpost&p=72553)

Just think about volunteers and hunter gather societies, etc. Such examples demonstrate that selfishness is not human nature.

[Hiero]

It always funny with this threads someone allways jumps in and says "oh im not middle class and i live on a patch of dirt and use a atari as a computer" i dont see the need to always state your social situation.

I here what you saying anonymouscuban. But you have see what Cuba had to start with before the socialist period. Not much. Did you think that in a matter of years they were goign to be some high tech society, you cant compare them to places like USA and Autralia, you have to compare them to countries in there "league", other poor countries.

Why would we leave our countries, i love it here it has all my needs and wants. Cuba couldnt do that for me, so im not going to move there.

If the workers protest and lead to a revolution then i would assist anyway i could, if at the time i was a worker i would participate. If Australia become socialist with one party legal with elements of direct democracy like cuba, it would still be different. All our services and acheivements would far out do Cuba&#39;s. This would be the case becuase we are a healty wealthy idustrial capitalist nation. We have so much to work with.

If Cuba becamer capitalist tomorrow and had a representive democracy do you really think that in a matter of years things would get better. I doubt it, american corparations would flood Cuba transport and Medical would be privatised. You would notice a huge change in sociali services.

[apathy maybe]

Just a question anonymouscuban (if you do ever come back), would you prefere to live in Cuba now, or Cuba before the revolution?