Marx

[tcip]

Well, I have just finished Marx's Das Kapital. Interesting piece of work. A very interesting take on history, I like some of his concepts enormously, "the weight of generations gone past laden the modern ones" not verbatim, but the general gist. However, I am also a student of economics, and still wondering a few things. Particularly, how will the conversion from a market economy to a socialistic economy shift the PPF rightward? I mean, I can understand how it could shift the point at which the economy operates on it, but without an increase in the quantity of goods, or an increase in technology, I don't see how you could expand it such. I am not up to date on modern marxist thought, so I figured this would be a good knowledgable source for this information.

[STI]

Wow. All three volumes?!? Congrats.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 08:38 PM
Well, I have just finished Marx's Das Kapital. Interesting piece of work. A very interesting take on history, I like some of his concepts enormously, "the weight of generations gone past laden the modern ones" not verbatim, but the general gist. However, I am also a student of economics, and still wondering a few things. Particularly, how will the conversion from a market economy to a socialistic economy shift the PPF rightward? I mean, I can understand how it could shift the point at which the economy operates on it, but without an increase in the quantity of goods, or an increase in technology, I don't see how you could expand it such. I am not up to date on modern marxist thought, so I figured this would be a good knowledgable source for this information.
"Student of Economics"

:lol:


The production possibility frontier is concept that is applicable to bourgeois economics only.

If you would have read Das Kapital as you suggest, you would not be asking this question.

What? You thought you were "confuse the young Marxists" by babbling about irrelevant economic theory?

I reckon that train just derailed.

Come back when you actually know what you're talking about my little gumdrop.

[tcip]

The production possibility frontier is concept that is applicable to bourgeois economics only.

Really? According to Marxists, scarcity doesn't exist? What a odd bunch of fellas.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 12:42 AM

Really? According to Marxists, scarcity doesn't exist? What a odd bunch of fellas.
Good grief, you have no idea how the transformation curve even works do you?

If you did, you would have never asked "how will socialistic economy shift the PPF rightward" without providing reasonable explanation as to what product with be forcing the curve rightward. Nor would you have made the blunder of referring to the PPF as if it's an expression of the total GDP; which THEY are not.

[inquisitive_socialist]

excuse me RAF but if you want to start throwing around shit about people not doing their reading its really hypocritical. to state that the PPF only applies to capitalist economics is simply foolish. the PPF is a way of showing supply and demand, if you think that demand becomes irrelevant when a country becomes socialist then your just practicing stalinist economics. if you think the issue of supply becomes irrelevant your just saying that a socialsit society would have no supply, or your saying a socialist society would have unlimited supply.please elucidate you statmement that its becomes unapplicable.

[inquisitive_socialist]

in a seperate issue why does it seem Comrade Raf cannot find anything consrtuctive to say in reply to anyones post. ive been in the archives alittle and ive never found a post where you agree with someone.all you do, it seems and i could be wrong, is shit talk everyone elses ideas. you seem fairly consistent in being an unimaginative naysayer and as Emerson says " Consisitency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

[Vinny Rafarino]

the PPF is a way of showing supply and demand,

Perhaps if you don't understand it, it is.



if you think that demand becomes irrelevant when a country becomes socialist then your just practicing stalinist economics

Irrelevant.

In addition, there is no such thing as "stalinist economics" Chrissie-poo.


. if you think the issue of supply becomes irrelevant your just saying that a socialsit society would have no supply, or your saying a socialist society would have unlimited supply.please elucidate you statmement that its becomes unapplicable.

This statement has nothing do do with anything said here. In other words, it's pure babble.


in a seperate issue why does it seem Comrade Raf cannot find anything consrtuctive to say in reply to anyones post

In another separate issue; why can't you ever stop following me around "comrade" Chris?

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 15 2004, 05:41 PM

Perhaps if you don't understand it, it is.

i agree.

[percept¡on]

Of course the PPF is applicable to socialist economies, it may be applicable in a more abstract way to communist economies as well.

Every economy/industry/business has to make a trade off between investment and consumption, the "mix" of consumption and investment chosen which utilzes the total available resources forms the PPF.

Would the PPF shift outward in a transition from capitalism to socialism? There are several reasons why it could, one which can be quantitatively proven is the relationship between higher levels of equality and higher levels of overall productivity. There is statistical evidence that among advanced western industrial democracies there is a direct correlation between equality and productivity, those nations which have lower gini coefficients(Japan, Germany, Scandanavia) having higher levels of productivity than those with higher gini coefficients (US, UK). Since the goal of a socialist economy is an egalitarian distribution of wealth it is conceivable that this would lead to a productivity higher than a capitalist economy at a given level of technology and resources. Future PPFs, of course, will depend on current levels of consumption and investment.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Of course the PPF is applicable to socialist economies, it may be applicable in a more abstract way to communist economies as well.



Show me how. (don't forget that capital does not exist in a communist society)

[percept¡on]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 08:41 PM

Show me how. (don't forget that capital does not exist in a communist society)
If you have a workers' collective of 10 workers who can produce 10 bushels of wheat on an acre of cultivated land if they all work the harvest. Each worker can contribute a bushel of wheat if they work the field, or 3 workers could, through combined labor, turn an adjacent acre of land into a form in which they could plant wheat next season.

The PPF would be 10 bushels : 0 new acres / 7 bushels : 1 new acre / 4 bushels : 2 new acres / 1 bushel : 3 new acres.

Next season, if they go with the 7:1 option, let's say their productivity doubled due to economies of scale resulting form the extra acre of cultivated land. Now each worker can reap 2 bushels. The trade off is the same.

The PPf would be 20 bushels : 0 new acres / 14 bushels : 1 new acre / 8 bushels : 2 new acres / 2 bushels : 3 new acres.

There is always a trade-off between how much work can be devoted to current 'comsumption' and how much can be devoted to investment or future 'consumption' since there are only 24 hours in a day.