East Germans Say Communism Is A Good Idea

[Subversive Pessimist]

East Germans say communism is a good idea

23 August 2004

BERLIN - Some 15 years after the Berlin Wall came down, more than 75 percent of eastern Germans polled in a survey released Monday believe communism to be a good idea in theory.

Over half of the people in formerly communist eastern Germany are disillusioned with democracy, said the survey by Datenreport 2004.

Some 25 percent of respondents agree with the statement: "There are other, better forms of government than democracy."

A whopping 76 percent eastern Germans said they believed communism was a good idea that was only poorly carried out by the regime in the former German Democratic Republic.

Surprisingly, the survey showed a majority of western Germans (51 percent) also agree with that sentiment. However, 80 percent of

western Germans said they believe in democracy.

The survey's findings were published as tens of thousands of people in eastern Germany prepared to take to the streets Monday evening to protest against Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's controversial economic and social reforms.

Last Monday some 90,000 eastern German protesters took to the streets in what was heralded as a revival of the Monday evening protests in 1989 that brought down the eastern German regime.

DPA

Subject: German news


http://www.expatica.com/source/site_articl...&story_id=10955 (http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=10955)

[RedAnarchist]

They know its a good idea as up to 1989 they had suffered decades of a German deformed worker's state. They know what real Communism is.

[Subversive Pessimist]

I did not understand the reason or thinking behind that sentence. I did not get anything out of it. Could you please eloborate?

[RedAnarchist]

East Germany was a deformed worker's state that the capitalist media called Communist, when it hadnt even got close to socialism. The people of the Former Est Germany know that Communism is nothing like what oppressed them for decades.

[Pawn Power]

Those percentages are very pleasing, hopefully they will now take some action for change they belive in! :hammer:

[Skeptic]

Thanks for the post Comrade Strawberry.

[Subversive Pessimist]

You're welcome :)

[PRC-UTE]

Yes, very good post, Comrade Strawberry.

I'll have to see what some cappies say to this! :hammer:

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 11:03 PM
East Germany was a deformed worker's state that the capitalist media called Communist, when it hadnt even got close to socialism. The people of the Former Est Germany know that Communism is nothing like what oppressed them for decades.
They must of got something good out of the former socialist rule, or their would not be such a high a rate for socialism.


I'll have to see what some cappies say to this

Who cares what they say.

[Anti-Capitalist1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 01:25 AM
Yes, very good post, Comrade Strawberry.

I'll have to see what some cappies say to this! :hammer:
brother more of the same crap they've been saying for years... but, this is very encouraging. Thanks strawberry. :hammer:

[Palmares]

Some 25 percent of respondents agree with the statement: "There are other, better forms of government than democracy."

I find this bit both interesting and confusing.

Firstly, democracy is not a fully-fledged politcal system, but rather it is a component. To say there is an alternative is to imply that there is something different that can be achieved.

Democracy and communism/socialism/anarchism are not manichean opposites.

If these people truly understood the difference, would they not have said an alternative to capitalism?

Anyway, this whole East German wanting communism thing reminds me of an image I heard about around a year ago:

An old women shaking a placard with Josef Stalin on it shouting "Bring back the good 'ol days!"

:lol:

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 06:42 AM

I find this bit both interesting and confusing.

Firstly, democracy is not a fully-fledged politcal system, but rather it is a component. To say there is an alternative is to imply that there is something different that can be achieved.

Democracy and communism/socialism/anarchism are not manichean opposites.

If these people truly understood the difference, would they not have said an alternative to capitalism?


You make a good point Cthenthar. Many people don't make the connection that Capitalism is a Dictatorship, a Dictatorship of the rich.

[cathatonix]

I can't say I loved old Soviet but I think workers in Europe and America has a lot to thank that dead country. The reason why workers here have rather good pay and working conditions is because the capitalist were so bloody scared after WWII that they had to give it to us. The were afraid of revolution. They gave us money and a rather free life but now everything is slipping away. Jobs are going to sweatshops in asia and social wefare, healthcare and everything is taken away. I think it's time to stop this "development".
-Stalin, come back. Everything is forgiven!!

Accoring to Chomsky Stalin wanted to unite Germany 1952 as a neutral country but US refused. They wanted a NATO country in the middle of Europe. Stuffed with soldiers.

[leftist manson]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 08:47 PM
I can't say I loved old Soviet but I think workers in Europe and America has a lot to thank that dead country. The reason why workers here have rather good pay and working conditions is because the capitalist were so bloody scared after WWII that they had to give it to us. The were afraid of revolution. They gave us money and a rather free life but now everything is slipping away. Jobs are going to sweatshops in asia and social wefare, healthcare and everything is taken away. I think it's time to stop this "development".
-Stalin, come back. Everything is forgiven!!

Accoring to Chomsky Stalin wanted to unite Germany 1952 as a neutral country but US refused. They wanted a NATO country in the middle of Europe. Stuffed with soldiers.
you are such a genius
thanx to strawberry for this post
but the things you just said sums it all up
sovit union gone all awry with its own twisted agenda of neo-imperialism(socialist imperialism as mao called it) but still , still apart from some very destructive incidents in indo- china that this old beast committed
stillllll oh stillllll
it was the shining beacon of hope for the world view left
any comments?

[__ca va?]

I can't say I loved old Soviet but I think workers in Europe and America has a lot to thank that dead country. The reason why workers here have rather good pay and working conditions is because the capitalist were so bloody scared after WWII that they had to give it to us. The were afraid of revolution. They gave us money and a rather free life but now everything is slipping away. Jobs are going to sweatshops in asia and social wefare, healthcare and everything is taken away. I think it's time to stop this "development".
-Stalin, come back. Everything is forgiven!!

Accoring to Chomsky Stalin wanted to unite Germany 1952 as a neutral country but US refused. They wanted a NATO country in the middle of Europe. Stuffed with soldiers.

Forgiving Stalin everything?? You are insane or just ignorant!! Apart from killing tens of millions of people he made the Soviet Union a monstrous system of slavery which had nothing to do with communism and socialism! Thanks to him even we present leftists are depicted by the majority of the people as authoritarian terrorists! And the unification of Germany az a "neutral country"? I'd doubt that... He would have rather instituted an oppressive regime in all of Germany.
Thanks, comrade Stalin, yes we surely want you back :angry:

[Subversive Pessimist]

Apart from killing tens of millions of people he made the Soviet Union a monstrous system of slavery which had nothing to do with communism and socialism!

I thought they received wages in the USSR... :rolleyes:


Stalin did remarkable things to the economy. Turning a semi-feudal country into a industrialised society is not easy, but the workers of the Soviet Union managed this with the help from Stalin. If Lenin had continued to live, the Soviet Union would most likely not have been as industrialized country before the Nazis would invade the country. Imagine what would have happen to the world if not these measures by Stalin had been taken in place, and Nazi Germany would have taken over Russia.

[cathatonix]

right from the start the Soviet society was sabotaged by western countries like USA. And Churchill, being the war minister, bombed northern Russia with chemical weapons 1919. Chemical weapons were forbidden after WWI but who gives a shit when it's just a couple of commies?
So the big hero after WWII Churchill actually is a simple war criminal and mass murderer and user of weapons of mass destruction.
I never heard that on History Channel!

[Subversive Pessimist]

And Churchill, being the war minister, bombed northern Russia with chemical weapons 1919.


Wow, I did not know that. Do you have any documentation? Thanks in advance.

[PRC-UTE]

So the big hero after WWII Churchill actually is a simple war criminal and mass murderer and user of weapons of mass destruction.
I never heard that on History Channel!

Yes, or his policy of gassing the Kurds or saying the Slavic race were subhuman.

[Palmares]

Do any of you guys realise that the basis of this thread really doesn't mean much?

Very few of these people truly know what communism is, but rather remember the experience of Stalinism. All they are thinking about is job security, fairer wages, cheaper food, etc.

Does the article say anything about the problem of capitalism? No. Just about the problem of democracy. :rolleyes:

Read my last post properly for fucks sake. :angry:


Originally posted by ComradeStrawberry
Stalin did remarkable things to the economy.

What a hero (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5200). <_<

[socialistfuture]

I think whats been happening in east germany is just what europe needs from the leftist perspective, it shows that the propsperity and neo liberal aggenda is failing and people are realising and starting to get on the streets and do something about it.

With the Genoa and actions and Gottenburg and Prague amongst other the Anti-capitalist/globalization movement is gaining momentum in Europe. The &#39;war on terror&#39; is divinding loyalties and opinions - notably in the New Labour in Britian. If somehow Bush loses the US elections and a couple of his European allies fall real changes could start to happen. Spain ditched their warmonger leader, If just a couple more loose from the anti-war vote it will show the power the movement is gaining.

I think a lot of east europeans resent what capitalism has brought, there were so many promises, instead there has been privitization, poverty, and dodgy dealings and goverments. Stalinism sucked, but Russia still is rife with corruption and many of the old troubles. Capitalism simply has not delivered.

Those in east germany who look back to communism with some fond memories I am sure would not fight to have it back.. not in the old form.. socialists/communists and so on must learn from the past and fight for a socialism which is democratic ( not a dictatorship ) and works with the will of the people.

Many leaders have ignored their countries opinions on the Iraq war, the disatisfaction with those in power can got o the right as well as the left.. we must work to build trust and a movement that is worth fighting for.. not uphold the corrupt values of the stalinist past.

I hope something better emerges for those who live in Germany

[Palmares]

It is just a matter of making the masses aware what the alternative is. And as socialistfuture (kind of) said: not the &#39;ol Stalinism, but communism.

[cathatonix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 07:44 PM

And Churchill, being the war minister, bombed northern Russia with chemical weapons 1919.


Wow, I did not know that. Do you have any documentation? Thanks in advance.
I read it in a Noam Chomsky book. I think it&#39;s called "Deterring Democracy". It&#39;s full of nice things like that

[gaf]

no they don&#39;t but if you have two choose between two diablos then you choose the best one for you....