Americans are accusing us - They say we don't respect the Ho

[Maaja]

Yesterday the ambassador of U$ declared that Estonia doesn't respect enough the memory of Holocaust and that we have no right to forget it. That our schoolbooks should talk more about it (we should translate chapters from U$ schoolbooks) etc. Accusation was made because after the independence no nazi hasn't been sentenced. But the reason is that USSR sentenced many nazis (around 200) and many of them escaped to Sweden and Germany after the USSR invasion. So there isn't anybody to sentence! The other thing that Americans don't like is the sympathy towards Palestinians here.

What do think about this kind of accusition? I think that they have no right to accuse us. I feel terribly sorry for Holocaust but I have to admit that it's false to ask every country to be on knees in front of Jews if I'm thinking about the war of Palestine for example. And Estonians aren't against them either, we are neutral and that's our right, it's not the reason for accusing the country on nazism.

Sometimes I think that U$ just wants to use it's 'bigger's right' to show little countries that actually they are ruling.

(Edited by Maaja at 8:01 am on May 30, 2002)


(Edited by Maaja at 8:08 am on May 30, 2002)


(Edited by Maaja at 8:10 am on May 30, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

Yeah, that is pretty messed up. The 'Holocaust' is overtaught in American schools. As my friend says, coming out of public schools and most private schools, the only history you'll be guarenteed to know is that of the ancient Egyptians, the Civil War, and the Holocaust.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:17 am on May 30, 2002)

[Son of Scargill]

Another fine example of the US elites arrogance,and ignorance of other nations.Trying to ram their sanitized history upon others.Do their schoolbooks mention the pardoning of German and Japanese scientists who were responsible for many horrific crimes?I doubt it.I also doubt that there are many people in Europe who are unaware of the holocaust.It had a pretty big impact here,in case they had forgotten.

[BOZG]

This is just another way for them to condone the billions of dollars in aid that is sent to the Israelis. It's like saying "Here look, we're giving them lots of money because we respect the memory of the Holocaust".

[Reuben]

DOes anyone ever mention the holocust without reference to what is going on Israel?! it is a seperate issue. I really do not know why it is that the only time we mention this most terrible ever tragedy is to complain about it being used. Every tragedy is used to a certain extent. Black dictators such as Mugabe use the legacy of racist colonialism and slavery to justify how he behaved as did others.

If somebody that america was not doing enough to remember the slave trade, would your immediate response be to relate to nationalistic dictatoers in Africa? WOuld you be so hostile to this request?

I dont really know what the situation is like in estonia, ut we have suffered terribly in Europe and we still d, to an extent which at the moment is increasing. As fasr as I know no-one is being asked to get on their knees in front of the jews. That is just rubbish.

WHAT IS HAPPENING in israel (occuppied palestine) is terrible but it must not effect the way we feel about anti jewish racism here in europe.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Maaja I think that American accusation has nothing to do with Estonia's relation towards Holocaust but Estonia's relation towards present-day situation in Israel. But I am wondering, why are you so upset? That pig Bush is accusing everybody. Soon he will declare that Estonia is one of the seeds of evil. Just ignore the bastard. I am really sorry because Holocaust, many innocent people died and so on. But it is history, people need to go forward and I think many Jews don't connect Holocaust with present situation. The problem is with that moron Bush and his idea of controlling the world.
Just ignore his accusations and if he ever comes to Estonia, organise big demonstrations.
Good luck!

[oki]

yes yes and yes,but :the holocaust can never be forgotten,and neighter can the stalinist masacre,murdering polpot,and the turkish clinzing of armenians,and the muslim slaughter in bosnia.apart from the politics behind this ,we must not forget.

but this is clearly an atempt by the US to have influence in the baltic states,because they are gonna line up with Europe.

[Kez]

Maaja I agree 100%

I think it is the bastards in the Jewish lobby who are using the Holocaust for their cause, and not us who is comparing the 2.

The Jewish Lobby is against the recognistion of the Armenian Genocide in America, y? because not as many people will read the Jewish one, more will read about the Armenian one, therefore they believe "their" genocide is somehow more important. Israel is great friends with Turkey and supports the denial of the Armenian Genocide, how ironic, that 1 minute they dont shut the fuck up about the holocaust, the next minute they are denying another nations

Why dont we read more about the rwandan genocide?

It is stupid decisions by the Jewish lobby that makes people think of "the Jewish Conspiracy" and such rubbish. How can i respect a lobby who does not respect my cause, and indeed how can i respect their cause when they poke me in the eye with their arrogance?

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 8:16 am on May 30, 2002
The 'Holocaust' is overtaught in American schools.


it is impossible to teach about the holocaust too much.

[oki]

woops,totally forgot to mention rwanda,the biggest of our times....

[Menshevik]

Japanese school books dont discuss WWII.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Blasphemy, we should learn about Holocaust in schools. I agree on that 100%. But sometimes, it (Holocaust) excludes everything else. Why not to learn about other genocides then? As previous comrades mentioned, there are unfortunately, many genocides in the world. I don't want to rate or judge, but Holocaust is "popular" subject because of the Jewish lobby while others, such Rwanda genocide, or Bosnian genocide (especially because majority people killed were Muslims) are completely out of discussion.

[Kez]

indeed,

and i believe u can "overteach"
it has to be in proportion to how important the even is, and how it relates to today

Comrade Kamo

[Reuben]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 1:14 pm on May 30, 2002
Maaja I agree 100%

I think it is the bastards in the Jewish lobby who are using the Holocaust for their cause, and not us who is comparing the 2.

The Jewish Lobby is against the recognistion of the Armenian Genocide in America, y? because not as many people will read the Jewish one, more will read about the Armenian one, therefore they believe "their" genocide is somehow more important. Israel is great friends with Turkey and supports the denial of the Armenian Genocide, how ironic, that 1 minute they dont shut the fuck up about the holocaust, the next minute they are denying another nations

Why dont we read more about the rwandan genocide?

It is stupid decisions by the Jewish lobby that makes people think of "the Jewish Conspiracy" and such rubbish. How can i respect a lobby who does not respect my cause, and indeed how can i respect their cause when they poke me in the eye with their arrogance?



What exactly do you mean by the term jewish lobby. Jews are an ethnic not an interest group. This term doesnt make sense.

[Reuben]

I really do not understand the formulation that many of you are using which seems to be that tmany genocides arent remembered so it must be the jewish genocide "which is keeping the others out" and because the jews have their genocide remembered it must be their fault that other genocides are not.

I think that the fact that the Armenian is not remembered has more to do with US interests and their relationship with turkey, than anything else.

[Kez]

the JL pressures american govt not to accept ARmenian genocide, and on may occasions the ISraeli govt has denied the armenian genocide

i can get u some proof if u want

[deimos]

I really do not understand the formulation that many of you are using which seems to be that tmany genocides arent remembered so it must be the jewish genocide "which is keeping the others out" and because the jews have their genocide remembered it must be their fault that other genocides are not.

I think that the fact that the Armenian is not remembered has more to do with US interests and their relationship with turkey, than anything else.

i agree.i don't think that its the fault of the jewish lobby.I think that its the fault of the us government.The jews aren't responsible for everything............

(Edited by deimos at 5:06 pm on May 30, 2002)

[hobo]

I think the holocaust is taught pretty well in Britain, it also teaches how Hitler got to power and how he kept control. Although i don't think many people realise how it could happen again.
I think America has to be very careful about the history it teaches because alot of its actions aren't really very defendable.

[lenin]

i agree with kamo here, how come you never see films or documentarys on the armenina genocide? killing people purley for there ethniticity is bad no matter what. just because its jews, doesn't make the crime any worse!
the jews (or should i say the zionists) have been living off the holocaust for years and milking it for everything it is worth. they brainwashed people that badly, they were even able to get away with stealing a country!
deimos, you say it is the fault of US government not jewish lobby? unfortunatly, there is no difference! (or at least, the two groups share the same views).

[James]

how come you never see films or documentarys on the armenina genocide?


There is no money in it.




just because its jews, doesn't make the crime any worse!



I don't think anyone ever says it was.




the jews (or should i say the zionists) have been living off the holocaust for years and milking it for everything it is worth. they brainwashed people that badly, they were even able to get away with stealing a country!



Your views, i have noticed, contradict each other an awful lot. I thought you were the one true communist. Oh, i see. I suppose communist (according to you) believe in different countries and nations...




deimos, you say it is the fault of US government not jewish lobby? unfortunatly, there is no difference! (or at least, the two groups share the same views).



Hmmm, typical of your posts.


So your so against mass killings are you? I'm against killing, but you arn't are you. Arn't you the one that said you want to chop of the heads of all capitalists? Oh i see! You have double standards!!! sorry if you are not the one that said all that crap about violent revolutions and shit, you see i'm a bit stupid alot of the time.

The "jewish" example isn't JUST jewish. MANY DIFFERENT TYPES of people perished in those camps. NOT JUST JEWS. Please show some respect. Yikes! You claim to be so communist "lenin" then you forget that so many GERMAN COMMUNISTS died there as well. Your so hypocritical. Sorry if you don't agree, i've probably made mistakes.

James

(Edited by James at 5:15 pm on May 30, 2002)


(Edited by James at 5:18 pm on May 30, 2002)

[Reuben]

Quote: from lenin on 4:13 pm on May 30, 2002
i agree with kamo here, how come you never see films or documentarys on the armenina genocide? killing people purley for there ethniticity is bad no matter what. just because its jews, doesn't make the crime any worse!
the jews (or should i say the zionists) have been living off the holocaust for years and milking it for everything it is worth. they brainwashed people that badly, they were even able to get away with stealing a country!


Well I think you should decide whether you mean jews or zionists, the rest of us are clear and those that are not tend to use other more right wing boards.

Anyway, Kamo is right that very little is said about the Armenian genocide and that is terrible. To clarify my position there are a nuber of forces which contribute to the lack of coverage, these probably do include some jewish organisations and probably also the turkish embassy. However to say that ' the jewish lobby' is responsible indicates that the jews or a least jewish organisations are acting in unison to diminish the armenian genocide.

This is not the case, as like all ethnic groups, the jewish community has many strands and different organisations, with jews over represented on the left. I am sure kamo did not mean it like this, though I think the word lobby is appropriate for political groups or interest groups but not ethnic communities.

There are many groups in America that I am sure accept the armenian genocide.

Finally there seems to be a notion a notion that genocides ar competing for attention, with the effectthat some people are under the impression that it is BECAUSE the holocaust gets attention that the armenian genocide doesnt. This is not the case The armenian genocide does not get enough attention generally. Even if people tended to ignore the holocaust, I think the Armenian genocide would not recieve enough attention.

[Edelweiss]

It is stupid decisions by the Jewish lobby that makes people think of "the Jewish Conspiracy" and such rubbish.

So you mean the Jews are causing todays anti-semitism by themself? Kamo, I think you are very wrong here! You should overthink this.

[lenin]

yes they are!!!! not necessarily jews, but zionists (who are jews). zionism is causing a lot of anti-semitism and the fact that the JL keeps on going on about the injustices of jews etc. it is pissing people off! what about the injustices of palestinians? or those blacks in SA where the jewish doctors did tests on them?
i'm not necessarilly an anti-semite, but i think the jewish religion needs a change in leadership. there needs to be more jews that take a stand AGAINST zionism, publically. maybe then, there will be less anti-semitic feelings.

[Blasphemy]

lenin, saying that the jews are responsible for anti-semitic feelings is ludicrous! anti-semitism is caused by people's blindness and ignorance. just like people generalize jews, i can generalize palestinians and say that they are all terrorists. this is a primitive and moronic thing to say, right? there are jews and there are jews, and there a zionists and there are zionists. generalizations of ethinic groups is idiotic and narrow-minded.

i think that saying that you are NOT NECESSARILLY an anti-semite is very disturbing...i expect people here to totally repudiate anti-semetism and other racist views.

[Hattori Hanzo]

America is just trying to find something to attack Estonia about because of one policy or another

America has always been a bully- look at Cuba

[Hattori Hanzo]

STUPID AVATAR!!!!!!!

[Hattori Hanzo]

It's always about goddanmed Israel with you people!!!!!!!

[Josip Broz Tito]

Just one clarification, when I said in my post Jewish lobby, I ment Zionist lobby. So, nothing on national level. Let us not play any word games. I think that we all know that there are some people that want permanent conflict in Middle East because they earn some money from it. Those people happen to be Jews (or they want to be called Jews), and not only Jews of course. A lot of people are making money from the Middle East conflict.

But, it seems that we have misunderstanding here, I don’t know if it is on purpose. So I will ask simple and clear question.

Do you think that there is a Zionist lobby in the U$A that is financing and supporting the Middle East conflict and making money from it?

[Maaja]

I am very happy for all the replies I got, I feel very well because I know that at least people here don't consider us nazis because of that! Fortunately today evening our governement declared that USA has no right to interrupt into our domestic matters. I also know that the ambassador of USA was very angry after that and they gave also a video confernece for our parliament. I am also quite sure that it isn't actually so much about Jews, it's more about showing who's in power.

[Reuben]

Thanks for that clarification TIto. And yes, with regard to your question, the xionist organizations do finance the conflict in the midddle east not only in America but also hear. One of the major groups are the JNF wh finance settle and other exclusively israeli institutions. A few months ago Clinto n came here to speak at their fund raising dinner.

REGARDING THE COMMENTS OF KAMO about certain being responsible for anti-semitism I am shocked. I am sick of peple saying that minorities bring racism on themselvews. Antisemitism comes from anti-semites.

RACISM is by its nature irrational as it is based on the flase idea of traits being attributed to whole ethnic groups. If somebody reacts to the actions of certain blacks through racism against all blacks then in is not the black that has caused the racism but the person who has chosen to relate their actions to the whole ethnic group.

A final piece of evidence that Kamo is talking crap, is that the jewish conspiracy theory has existed even before jews got to america.

The undertone here that I really object to is that jews should somehow feel they have to moderate their behaviour on the basis of anti-semitism.You could say that my mother, who works in the media, is also fanning the flames of antisemitism by perpetuaing the jewish media myth. Does this mean she should stop?

[Kez]

Hold up.

Firstly, no1 is saying one genocide is more important than the other there are 2 issues now here
Every massacre, every death is tragic and hurts, and we all shoudl "shake with indignation at every injustice" to be true comrades within the framework of CHE.

1) Genocide Denial
The JL has pressured the govt of the USA to deny the genocide of the Armenian in 1915
has the Rwandan genocide become "genocide" in amerikkka or is it a "massacre"?
Also Turkey being a NATO (US) ally does not help. But mostly is the work of the JL

B) What i meant previously was that the JL brings itself under anti-semitism. By pushing so far, others will notice that they are commiting an injustice, and act against the JL, and this is generalised as against Jews = anti-semite.

c) The Jewish Lobby is the same as the Ziononist Lobby, but they go under the name Jewish Lobby yo my knowledge, however all of the members of the "Jewish Lobby" are Ziononists and not neccerily Jewish (Clinton is a member i believe)

Comrade Kamo

[Reuben]

Juswt to checkyour realise, the jewish lobby is not a specific organisation, it is a general term. There are also no organisations that call themselves the jewish lobby. The jewish lobby is a general term for the political activity of all jews, and is a fairly stupid term. But anyway regarding what you said:

With regard to opposition to the 'jewish lobby being generalise into anti-semitism, this is only because people approach the actions of a racialised mindset which I explained in my earlier post. If they react ant-semitically it is their fault.

One group which exists significantly in Britian is Al-Muhajiroun which goes even calling for the killing of jews. They are quite significant an islamic organisation.

Yet, quite rightly, you do not ssee me or any of my jewish freinds, reacting with a hat e of alll arabs or all muslim. Only somebody with a racist mindset would transfer there reaction to this group onto all who were thnicallyy identified with it.

[oki]

jews are not zionists and zionists are not jews per definition.

[BOZG]

The continuing incursions into Palestinian lands by Zionists is causing a boom in anti-semitism but is not directly the fault of the zionists. People are getting really pissed at the situation and believe that all Jews are to blame instead of just zionists. We need to give a clear definition between Jews and zionists.

[suffianr]

"kill their people, take their land, and go there for vacation"
- rage

[Josip Broz Tito]

Maaja, I am very happy that government of Estonia stood up against U$A interference in internal questions of Estonia. That is a rear example, but still very significant. That show that not everybody is controlled by the U$A and their sick policy. I just wish that sometimes my government does the same thing. Unfortunately, they bow to every American request.
BOZG, regarding your question, in my opinion, Jews are group of people, like any other group. Nothing special to tell about them, same like I can't tell anything special about any other group of people.
Zionists, on the other hand, are nationalistic group like any other nationalistic group in the world. Their main goal is money, not people they tend to represent.
Zionists and they Arab (and any other) counterparts are the main reason for continuation of the Middle East conflict. The problem with Zionists is that they are full of money (fact that also created prejudice that all Jews are rich :)). Also, they have great support from U$A. Reason, their HQs are in U$A.

[pastradamus]

well what the fuck did the US do to save the jews?
All they wanted was for Stalin and Hitler to slaughter one another.the US will only get involved in sumthing provided it's in its own intrests,they dont support humanity in any way e.g....that slaughter in RWANDA,they did sweet fuck all to stop that.

[Reuben]

Quote: from Josip Broz Tito on 2:41 pm on May 31, 2002
Maaja, I am very happy that government of Estonia stood up against U$A interference in internal questions of Estonia. That is a rear example, but still very significant. That show that not everybody is controlled by the U$A and their sick policy. I just wish that sometimes my government does the same thing. Unfortunately, they bow to every American request.
BOZG, regarding your question, in my opinion, Jews are group of people, like any other group. Nothing special to tell about them, same like I can't tell anything special about any other group of people.
Zionists, on the other hand, are nationalistic group like any other nationalistic group in the world. Their main goal is money, not people they tend to represent.
Zionists and they Arab (and any other) counterparts are the main reason for continuation of the Middle East conflict. The problem with Zionists is that they are full of money (fact that also created prejudice that all Jews are rich :)). Also, they have great support from U$A. Reason, their HQs are in U$A.


Good post comrade, except that the idea that all jews are rich has nothing to do with zionists or zionist money. In fact the asssociation of jews with money developed in the 15th and 116th century, long before zionism. It emerged because of the way many european states forced jews to be money lenders or bankers.

Furthermore the idea of jewish wealth was significant even in the early twentieth and late nineteenth century when the huge majority of jews in the west made up an extremely poor immigrant community.


Great post pastardemus. Your right about the U.S. they did very little to take in Jewish immigrants wuth the efffect that many were needlessly sent to their death.

In britain it was even worse because legislation had been made to specifically stop jewish immigration (every thing except for the wordng of the legislation itself mentioned jews).

[Josip Broz Tito]

Correction accepted. Thanks Reuben.
After all, we are all still learning, and we will never learn.

(Edited by Josip Broz Tito at 6:59 pm on May 31, 2002)

[Reuben]

Thanks comrade. I did agree with almost all of what you said. It also openned my eyes to the idea that this all could be to a great exent, simply the US throwing its weight around in the baltic states

[Reuben]

Thanks comrade. I did agree with almost all of what you said. It also openned my eyes to the idea that this all could be to a great exent, simply the US throwing its weight around in the baltic states

[pastradamus]

yes comrade,I have nothing but absolute respect for the baltic people,as a matter of fact i actually admire the way they stand up to the goliath US.

They're trying to conquer the baltics like they conquered us,Ireland is simply a puppet of america their corporations reley on us & we reley on the corporations.Ireland is actually a very poor country without foreign investment.

i remember what it was like b4 the economic boom that struck us,our house looked like shit! my neighbourhood was like a fucking ghetto! of course all this cud have been avoided had the corrupt bastards up at dail eireann provided a fucking life for us,by providing jobs and not releing on the yanks for money.

[Kez]

About the Jewish lobby bringing itself on some anti-semitism

If i poked you in the eye, wouldnt you be anti-kamo?
this can then turn into anti-commie as i also happen to be a commie

so, if the JL continues with its disgraceful and racist acts, then pepople will react and become anti-JL, then people become anti-Jewish ie anti-semite
This is further fuelled by Jewish people supporting the JL (and in certain respects they should do so).

I hope i made myself clear

Soz Reuben if i have caused any offence
peace ;)

Comrade Kamo

[Reuben]

No you havent caused any offence. Your views on this are completely legitimate. I just personally disagree with them.

I also completely sympathise tih your anger

[Josip Broz Tito]

Maybe Kamo if you use Zionist lobby instead of Jewish lobby, it would be more clear what you want to say. Jewish lobby, if there is one, should lobby for religion because Judaism is religion, not nationality. I agree that Zionists (ab)use religion in order to confuse people and make them believe that they are Jewish lobby.
I've got nothing against Jews or Jewish lobby if there is one. Zionists are something different, something we should fight against.

[Josip Broz Tito]

P.S. And yes, I do agree with you that Zionist lobby is also a reason for growing anti-semitism.

[Blasphemy]

you cannot blame the jews or the zionists for people becoming anti-semite. anti-semetism is a product of ignorance, intolerance and bigotry. why are so many people anti-commie? because they saw what stalin did, and decided that communism is evil. it's exactly the same.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Of course I cannot blame Jews for growing anti-Semitism. I have never said that I do. That is insane.
But same as many people blame Stalin, as an extreme in communist practice, for anti-communism, I think that Zionists are part of the problem with growing anti-Semitism. I didn't say that Zionists are only one to blame, but they are ALSO the reason for anti-Semitism.

[Reuben]

I was thinking about this all last night and thinking about where it was that I came from. One of the saddest things to think about, aside from the individual suffering, is thea way whole communities and the whole yiddish speaking nation was wiped out and no longer exists.

The jewish communities in eastern europe, from I and most other british jews originated, had been built up over one thousand year, although they had always remained very poor. They existed semi-autonomously, not poltitcally, but their own language culture and traditions.

Yet if you go to any of these countries you will find no evidence that this community and nation of people ever existed. The small remnants of a jewish community that was left after Hitler had finally een forced out was destroyed by I feel personally, that it leaves British and American jews with a kind of rootlessness, as their whole histtorial and cultural foundations were simply taken from under them.

Sorry for going on. Just wanted to share some of my thoughts .

[Blasphemy]

and what will prevent another holocaust, that will finish the job hitler started?

[PYROMANIAC]

Does anyone here actually doubt 6 million Jews were executed? I begin to question that figure.....

Pyro

[Reuben]

Nobod y is saying for sure that it was 6 million. Everything that has been said is an estimate. 6 million was in fact a conservative estimate.

Thoughg I really dont see how this is significant so what if it was say 5.5 million or 6.3 million a terrible trasgedy occurred, one which I outlined in previous post.

[Reuben]

PS I love your signiture. I know that monologue. It jsust shows what a contradictory play that really was and how it cannot simply be dismissed

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from PYROMANIAC on 1:32 am on June 2, 2002
Does anyone here actually doubt 6 million Jews were executed? I begin to question that figure.....

Pyro


the latests researches now claim it was actually closed to 7 million.

[Maaja]

I recently read a very good article written by a young Estonian journalist and I totally do agree with it. She wrote that in Estonia there has neevr been any hate at all toward Jews (as we also don't have racism), there has always been a Jew in every village and in every Estonian community. But now Estonians may even start to hate Jews because of those accusations, so this hate would be exported.

[Kez]

proving my point i believe

[Reuben]

With regard to hatred of Armenians, would you ever consider that armenians or armenian individual are birnging it on themselvesd. I certainly wouldnt If I was you I would really diagree if anyone suggested that direct responsibility for anti-armenian lay at the feet of anyone but the Armenians themselves.

Regarding anti-semitism in estonia I seriously don't see how the actions of the U.S. ambassador pr anyone can "Make" people into racists. Y ou know I have had various experiences from people of a range of ethnic origins. Certain people of African descent have attacked me as a jew along with many white people. Yet this hasnt "made" me into a racist.

If certain estonians turn to racism then they must take responsibility for their opinions.

What may turn people into ani-semites is the way , several years ago, an estonian newspaper serialised The Protocols of The Elders of Zion, one of the most vindictive racist and dangerous diatribe ever written (Possibly demonstrating that estonia s record on anti-semitism is not absalutely clean as you make )

Having said that Estonia was considerably less anti-semitic then the states around such as belarus. The nazis in fact had a lot of difficulty 'organizing' pogroms there.



(Edited by Reuben at 7:49 pm on June 2, 2002)

[Maaja]

I didn't mean that it's the fault of Jews if the Estonian people will hate them. But it could be the fault of American politics. There haven't been any serious conflict between Jews and Estonians until now (and hopefully will never be). But for example why accuse Estonia for not having a museum of Holocaust? First of all we are a very little country and in this case we should also have a museum for Estonians who were sent to Siberia (about 40 000) and for all our ancestors who were slaves for about 700 years (under Germany and Russia). The Holocaust has never played a big role here, it has never really happened here. And the Estonians have been on the side of Jews.

And of course we do have some neo-nazis here, which country doesn't? But I have to say that they are quite ridiculous and for 6 months or so I haven't heard about their actions anymore. The 'biggest' things they've ever done is spitting. And most of them are Russians.

[Reuben]

Ah. my firrst paragraph was tin response to kamo, who I have had a running argument throughout this thread. See his earlier posts. I know you were simply saying it is the fault of american politicians.


I dont think that america has any right to be telling any country what museum they should or shouldnt. bY doing that they are putting themselves on a moral pedestal which they simply do not deserve.

Perhaps estonia could ask America to set up a museum for the victims of CIA backed dictator Pinochet.

[The Ax]

Hey,
The holocaust was and is horrible thing but it appears that children who are beaten grow up to beat there children.

The Ax

[Reuben]

Hey Shut up you idiot.

Of course Israel is doing horrible things, but I know a number of holocaust suvivors none of whom are at all reationary and all are very nice.

Making such stupid insensitive blanket statements not renders you an idiot but is also offensive.

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from The Ax on 11:48 am on June 3, 2002
Hey,
The holocaust was and is horrible thing but it appears that children who are beaten grow up to beat there children.

The Ax


you're an idiot. that is the only reply your message deserves.

(Edited by Blasphemy at 3:05 pm on June 3, 2002)

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Reuben on 1:46 pm on June 1, 2002
I was thinking about this all last night and thinking about where it was that I came from. One of the saddest things to think about, aside from the individual suffering, is thea way whole communities and the whole yiddish speaking nation was wiped out and no longer exists.
The Ashkenazis in Israel even speak with Ladino accents! COMRADES, WE MUST END THE SEPHARDIC CONSPIRACY!

With regards to Maaja's original post, I teach at American public schools and quite a bit is said about the Holocaust. Unfortunately, nothing is said about the genocide in Rwanda even though it was far more recent and most of the kids in my school are a lot more Tutsi than they are Jewish. So any American official who tells you what should be going on in your nation's schools is full of shit. (Where are the Estonian ambassadors who demand that American schoolchildren learn about the millions of people who died during the Cold War because of American foreign policy? Now that, I'd like to see. I'd snatch him right out of Foggy Bottom and take him to my place for dinner!)

Lindsay