Use Of Irish Name Makes You A Terrorist

[PRC-UTE]

:lol:
CELTIC LEAGUE - PRESS INFORMATION



ASTONISHING CLAIM

USE OF GAELIC NAMES MAY BE A POINTER TO TERRORISM
OR SERIOUS CRIME!

Supplying details in Gaelic when answering questions or filling in details demanded under new anti-terrorism laws will make you liable to greater scrutiny. That is the message from the Scottish Executive Justice Department who were responding to a query forwarded to the UK Foreign Office in March following an incident involving an Irish national questioned at Stranraer earlier this year.

The League had suggested that the incident amounted to linguistic discrimination after it was asserted that the man had been asked to supply the English version of his name for inclusion on the embarkation card.

We asked what steps the United Kingdom government was taking to end the practice saying that such behaviour is a clear breach of linguistic and human rights conventions that the United Kingdom government has entered into.

However, in the reply from the Scottish Justice Department who say the issue falls within their purview it is made clear that not only Irish people will be subjected to 'special treatment'. They say:


"If a person supplies Irish Gaelic details, it is in the interest of National security that they be asked if they have used any other versions of their name or an English version of their name in the past (I am advised that actual instances of this happening are rare).

It is also important that the Police establish that details are not being supplied in an effort to deceive. The same applies to Scottish and Welsh nationals. The objective of the police is the protection of national security and the protection of communities to include threats from serious and organised crime".

The alarming conclusion from these comments i.e. that in some way people who use Irish and Scottish Gaelic or Welsh names or occasionally alternate between the English and National language version of their name is a pointer to your involvement in terrorism, organised or serious crime beggars belief.

The matter will be considered at a forthcoming meeting of the General Council of the Celtic League.

Bernard Moffatt
Secretary General



09/10/04



The full text of the letter from the Scottish Executive Justice Department is set out below:

"Dear Mr. Moffat

Thank you for your letter of 14 March which you sent to the Foreign Secretary regarding your concerns about the treatment of Irish nationals by the police. As your concerns appear to fall under the remit of the Scottish Justice Minister your letter has been passed to this Department and I have been asked to reply.

May I begin by saying that I regret how long it has taken to reply to your letter. This is due to the transfer of your correspondence between Government Departments.

It is not clear from your letter whether you have written formally to the Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary with details of specific incidents. If you have not, I would advise that you do this, as Chief Constables in Scotland are responsible for operational matters affecting their force, including complaints
against their own officers.

If, however, you have already corresponded formally with the Chief Constable and you remain dissatisfied with his handling of the complaint, it is open to you to write to Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary explaining why you are dissatisfied with the response you have received.

The Inspectorate then have powers to examine how the complaint was investigated. For the sake of completeness, I enclose a leaflet for you which explains the whole complaints process in more detail.

For my part I would advise you that 'embarkation cards' are presented to people who are examined under the terms of Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and who will or have travelled between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Terrorism Act 2000 states that "an examining officer may question a person to whom this paragraph applies for the purpose of determining whether he/she appears to be a person falling within Section 40 (1)(b) (i.e. he/she has been concerned in the commission, preparation or investigation of acts of terrorism). Paragraph 5 of the same schedule also records that a person who is questioned under Paragraph 2 or 3 "must give the examining officer any information in his possession which the officer requests."

The ports of Stanraer and Cairnryan are designated Ports under the terms of this Act. Almost two million passengers and 750,000 vehicles use these ports annually to travel between Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The Terrorism Act 2000 is designed to protect national security and empower Police Officers and other authorised officers to question and obtain details of persons whom they examine under the terms of the Legislation. The Legislation was enacted to protect the public and not to penalise any section of society without good cause. I
understand that there has been a low number of complaints recorded against
Dumfries and Galloway officers in this regard.

If a person supplies Irish Gaelic details, it is in the interest of national security that they be asked if they have used any other versions of their name or an English version of their name in the past (I am advised that actual instances of this happening are rare). It is also important that the Police establish that details are not being supplied in an effort to deceive. The same applies to Scottish and Welsh
nationals.

The objective of the Police is the protection of national security and the protection of communities to include threats from serious and organised crime.

I hope this helps to reassure you that Irish nationals are not being discriminated against, and that the Police are acting lawfully and within their remit of the maintenance of national security.

Yours sincerely

Andy Watson"


Note: The leaflet reffered to in the final sentence of paragraph 4 was not enclosed with the letter.




The Celtic League has branches in the six Celtic Countries of the western British Isles and Brittany. It works to promote cooperation between these countries and campaigns on a broad range of political, cultural and environmental matters. It targets human rights abuse and monitors all military activity within these areas

TEL (UK)01624 877918 MOBILE (UK)07624 491609

Internet site at

http://www.manxman.co.im/cleague

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celtic_league/

[BOZG]

Stiofán O'Raighne it is from now on. =D

[praxis1966]

I suppose it's a good thing I don't live in the UK. My first name is Irish Gaelic.

[h&s]

WTF!!!???!! :blink:
Fascism or what?

[chebol]

Hurtynodd ymerodraethwyr.

[DaCuBaN]

It's not funny, but I couldn't help but laugh out loud when I read that article - and the proceeding letter.


If a person supplies Irish Gaelic details, it is in the interest of National security that they be asked if they have used any other versions of their name or an English version of their name in the past

Frankly, if I was a white 'terrorist' in the UK, you can be damn sure I'd be under the name 'John Smith', not something that to a non-gaelic speaker requires a double-take...

You'd have to be a fucking idiot to try and use this deceiptfully - and an even bigger idiot to fall for it. There is no sense behind this kind of legislation :rolleyes:

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 02:04 PM
I suppose it's a good thing I don't live in the UK. My first name is Irish Gaelic.
You're the first person from the US that I've met that doesn't just call it Gaelic.

[praxis1966]

That's because I know a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to my heritage. I realize there's a difference between Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

[BOZG]

I go fucking mad when people call it just Gaelic. There's 6 different Gaelic languages.



Edit: Sorry, my mind is elsewhere today. There's 3 Gaelic languages, 6 Celtic languages, of which Gaelic constitutes 3.

[PRC-UTE]

I often use the Irish form of my name meself so I'm curious to see if I'll get nicked! :o :ph34r:


Hurtynodd ymerodraethwyr.

is that yer name in Cymreag, comrade?


Stiofán O'Raighne it is from now on

or Ó Raighne? :D

[fernando]

Is Stiofán like the Gaelic version of Stef...or Stefan?

[PRC-UTE]

Is Stiofán like the Gaelic version of Stef...or Stefan?

It's Stephen in Irish (Gaeilge).


Here's a few links for interested individuals:

http://www.fiosfeasa.com/bearla/language/intro.htm

http://www.solaseireann.com/temp/SolasLang.html

http://www.daltai.com/home.htm

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 06:06 PM
or Ó Raighne? :D
Of course. I missed that one. :P

I'm actually not sure about the fada's on my surname.

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 05:49 PM

It's Stephen in Irish (Gaeilge).


Here's a few links for interested individuals:

http://www.fiosfeasa.com/bearla/language/intro.htm

http://www.solaseireann.com/temp/SolasLang.html

http://www.daltai.com/home.htm
That will be my new name :lol:

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 07:15 PM
That will be my new name :lol:
Stiofán?

[PRC-UTE]

And to think that this is actually an improvement compared to how it was in the recent past!

Wasn't so long ago when giving any information about yourself as Gaeilge would result in a beating from the RUC and sometimes an indefinite stay in HRM's prison!

Tiocfaidh ár lá!

Thigibh ár látha! (in Scots Gaelic, Gàidhlig)

Fe godwin ni eto! (welsh, Cymreag)

[BOZG]

An bhfuil Gaeilge líofa agat?

[PRC-UTE]

Níl Gaeilge líofa agam. Just conversationally.

Agus tú?

[Guerrilla22]

They never miss an opprotunity to further degrade the Irish people do they. this is absolutely absurd. Welcome to the post 9-11 world.

[BOZG]

Uafásach, na laetheanta seo. Déanaim dearmad ar gach rud. :)

[PRC-UTE]

Uafásach, na laetheanta seo. Déanaim dearmad ar gach rud.

Taigim a chara. It seems like it would be hard to find folks to practice Gaeilge with there in Áth Cliath.

[BOZG]

It's not just Dublin, it's most of the country.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Okay, I'm quite Irish. My father is from Belfast, my mother is from Cork. I'm from the clan McCoy (Coey, McCooey, McCoey, whichever you prefer)

First, perhaps it's because I've lived in North America for half my life now, or perhaps because my memories are of a city that has been under English rule, but this thread looks like a bunch of old Móraís and Daideós having a chat. I'm having quite a hard time figuring it out. (Yet, perhaps as I said, my mind has been poisoned by a lifetime surrounded by Anglo-Saxons)

Second, I wonder how much trouble this will actualy cause. How many English will actually care, and how many Celtic people actualy give their children traditional names? They still use some Celtic names, just more modern (such as Shannon, Vanessa, Shane, Kyle, Brandon) or adopt English names anyway (John Balliol, Daniel O'Connell, Geoffrey of Monmouth).

Even though I don't see where there will be much confrontation, this is unacceptable, and angers me. This is trying to erase the past, to deprive the native people of the islands of their heritage. The Celts were here before the Normans, before the Saxons, before the Romans. What is next? Will they go after the Muellers, Jacobs, Levis, Cohens, Goldbergs? They can finish what Hitler started, but instead of an aryan race, make it White Anglo-Saxon Protostent (W.A.S.P.)

The idea sounds little better then the American Manifest Destiny or the Nazi Holocaust.

Also, here's another little Celtic goodie, I've added an attachment of the McCoy Clan of Belfast's Coat of Arms

[fernando]

My cousin and her husband live near Dublin nowadays :lol: I should drop by sometimes...Im very curious about Ireland...

Doesnt "Pogh Mohahn" (I probably spelled it all wrong) mean "kiss my ass"


Stiofán?

Yah :P

[BOZG]

Póg mo thóin

Why Stiofán?

[Invader Zim]

Where I live most local people dont speak English as a first language.

They have fantastic names here. Gruffudd ap Gwenwynwyn is a name you encounter a lot if you do any welsh medieval history. Another one is Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, which in English is pronounced Lwelin ap griffith.. i think.

But most local people have names like any other English ones. Though Owen, Dafydd, Bryn are quite common. I actually visited my mothers old home recently as well, and saw the house my uncle was born in. I was quite impressed with that...

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 03:03 PM
Póg mo thóin

Why Stiofán?
It sounds cool...better than Stefan (its sounds lame in dutch) :P

[BOZG]

It's pronounced sort of like Schtiff - on though with a soft 'sch' sound. I don't think it's an actual translation of Stefan (Stephen is pronounced Steven by the way) but Irish has a habit of attributing numerous English names to a single Irish name, so the likely is that Stiofán is the translation for both Stephen, Stefan and any other likewise names.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 04:19 PM
Where I live most local people dont speak English as a first language.

They have fantastic names here. Gruffudd ap Gwenwynwyn is a name you encounter a lot if you do any welsh medieval history. Another one is Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, which in English is pronounced Lwelin ap griffith.. i think.

But most local people have names like any other English ones. Though Owen, Dafydd, Bryn are quite common. I actually visited my mothers old home recently as well, and saw the house my uncle was born in. I was quite impressed with that...
I'd suggest you run for your life if you tell a Welsh person that Llywelyn is prounced like 'Lwelin'. =D

The other names you mentioned are really just Welsh translations of English/Irish names.

[DaCuBaN]

is it not "loo ell en"

[BOZG]

They'd kill you for that too. It's very hard to pronounce, I can get near enough to it.

It's actually pronounced with a throaty 'ch' sound at the very start. Almost like "chloo - ell - en". The 'l' actually becomes much softer and the 'en' can be sort a sort of mix between 'in' and 'en'.

[BOZG]

There we go kids.

[PRC-UTE]

go hálainn

[praxis1966]

Mine...

[BOZG]

Apparently the colours of mine and the lion represent sincerity, generousity and peace, though I've been told it can also be interpreted as being great warriors. :)

[DaCuBaN]

Meh, mine's better :P

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jstewart/images/Arms.jpg

[RedAnarchist]

I have MacCionnaida and O Ceallachain in my family tree (sorry if i spelt those wrong) myself, and a possible Cymraeg Davies branch. Cymraeg means Welsh.

Wales - Cymru
Welsh - Cymraeg
Scotland - Caledonia or Alba
Isle of Man - Mann
Cornwall - Kernow
OIreland - Eire or Erse

[Hate Is Art]

Well all these crests and stuff got me looking for mine. Our motto it turns out is - as bee's geomerty - werd.

[cormacobear]

My mother's Family left Sligo in the 1860's, and I guess the English weren't as effective in stamping out Gaelic in the west. Because they spoke terrible English but fluent Gaelic.

My Mom wanted me to learn but there were no classes where we lived.

I wonder what Clayton is in Gaelic. I need to know so I can use it when I go toGreat britain next year. See if I can piss them off. :D

And I say Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic. After all Scottish Gaelic is a decendant of Irish Gaelic. After all the Scotti were an Irish tribe and the Picts weren't Celts.

[BOZG]

Don't forget Manx Gaelic.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 08:15 PM
My mother's Family left Sligo in the 1860's, and I guess the English weren't as effective in stamping out Gaelic in the west. Because they spoke terrible English but fluent Gaelic.
They're still fleeing that part of the country. :)

[PRC-UTE]

And I say Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic. After all Scottish Gaelic is a decendant of Irish Gaelic. After all the Scotti were an Irish tribe and the Picts weren't Celts.


Some prominent Celtic scholars do believe that the Pretani and Cruithne ( "Picts" ) were Celts or were at least proto-Celtic. That would explain why they interbred so quickly with the invading Gaels and had such similar names.

I think it's better to call the language Gaeilge or just Irish. It's called Gaelic in Scotland as an effort by Anglophiles to de-emphasise the importance of the language to the national identity of the Scots (as "Scots" is their dialect of English).

[DaCuBaN]

It's called Gaelic in Scotland as an effort by Anglophiles to de-emphasise the importance of the language to the national identity of the Scots (as "Scots" is their dialect of English).

Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that it's not spoken (nor is there any desire for it to be spoken) in the vast majority of the country.

I live in Grampian, a north-east region of the country, and supposedly one of the 'gaelic' areas here - I don't see it. In truth, it's quite specific to the north, north-west of the country.

"Scots" is even more dead, if you know what I mean. Good riddance, frankly: who needs a 'national identity' unless you're looking for tourists :P

[PRC-UTE]

oglachmcglinchey:
It's called Gaelic in Scotland as an effort by Anglophiles to de-emphasise the importance of the language to the national identity of the Scots (as "Scots" is their dialect of English).

dacuban:
Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that it's not spoken (nor is there any desire for it to be spoken) in the vast majority of the country.

I was of course commenting on an item of historical importance. Gaelic was de-emphasised at a time when slightly less than half the country spoke it as their cradel tongue and many more would have had competency. So it was political and meant to extend the borders of England, it wasn't a progressive event.

It's sad that multi-lingualism is so rare in the British Isles. It's even worse in the US. Speaking more than one language improves the intellect and helps to enhance life.

[DaCuBaN]

Gaelic was de-emphasised at a time when slightly less than half the country spoke it as their cradel tongue and many more would have had competency. So it was political and meant to extend the borders of England, it wasn't a progressive event.

I know, and I 'had' to get the dig in - we've covered the topic before, and I'm against the 'liberation' of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland from the United Kingdom. I'd reintegrate Ireland, if they would be willing. I simply don't see what has to be gained by breaking apart.

If I remember correctly, we agreed to differ :D


It's sad that multi-lingualism is so rare in the British Isles. It's even worse in the US. Speaking more than one language improves the intellect and helps to enhance life.

I agree, but I don't see learning a 'dying' language of being of any use to a 'socialist'. Why not learn Spanish? Cantonese? Even French, or German is a better alternative. Millions of people speak these as their first language, and it provides you with the ability to converse with people from such diverse backgrounds. It would certainly make a lot more sense than reviving a language that was killed many, many years ago - irregardless of the reasons. We are here, this is now. We speak the same language, live in a similar climate - it follows suite that we 'band together'.

Certainly, mass adoption of Gaelic would be an effective way to drive a wedge between it's native nations and the English. Surely that's the last thing we need - more division.

As to the US, I find it quite startling that there's a problem with multi-linguism. Isn't Spanish a more predominantly spoken first language in the US now?

[cormacobear]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 10:12 AM

we've covered the topic before, and I'm against the 'liberation' of Northern Ireland
Do you remember where you guys discussed this?

I'd like to hear someone try and defend the protestant aparthied, and the English occupation that has been an excercise in oppression.

[PRC-UTE]

Do you remember where you guys discussed this?

Here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28431) is one of our discussions.

It's more civilised than some of the other discussions that had to be locked after someone threatened to "stamp me". ;)



I know, and I 'had' to get the dig in - we've covered the topic before, and I'm against the 'liberation' of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland from the United Kingdom. I'd reintegrate Ireland, if they would be willing. I simply don't see what has to be gained by breaking apart.

Would you reintegrate America or France? :lol:

I agree with Marx, Engels, Lenin and Connolly on the Irish issue that the breakup of the empire is a progressive step towards a workers republic, but neither will I compromise on socialism. The Empire divides the workers. The topic of discrimination highlights that well. It is their economic interest that will unite them.

You wouldn't put 'liberation' in quotes if you had to suffer under the six counties' clerical fascist regime of paisley.


If I remember correctly, we agreed to differ

I do agree to disagree, but you did bring up the topic, comrade.

BTW, I'll address your other points later a chara.

[DaCuBaN]

You wouldn't put 'liberation' in quotes if you had to suffer under the six counties' clerical fascist regime of paisley.

I do quite agree: My complaint is that fragmentation wouldn't have changed this. If it would have, I'd have been wholeheartedly behind it.


Would you reintegrate America or France?

Yup :D and just like Ireland they wouldn't want to - If we must have nationstates, it seems prudent to me that we just have one great big state. I don't see it as coincidence that 'socialist' (whatever you think of them) regimes started in two of the biggest countries both in terms of population and landmass.


I'd like to hear someone try and defend the protestant aparthied, and the English occupation that has been an excercise in oppression.

I wouldn't even try: My argument stands solely on the premise that socialist revolution is no closer under the RoI than it is in any of other part of the 'british' isles. It's not something I make an effort to promote, but it is my belief that seperation won't solve a damn thing.

Plus, I like being a nation that has no culture in itself; To me, that is progression. ;)

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:02 PM
They'd kill you for that too. It's very hard to pronounce, I can get near enough to it.

It's actually pronounced with a throaty 'ch' sound at the very start. Almost like "chloo - ell - en". The 'l' actually becomes much softer and the 'en' can be sort a sort of mix between 'in' and 'en'.
Well the guy in the room next to me doesnt pronounce it like that...

Ohh and as for the names being either ripped from English or Irish, I think its the other way round, Welsh is one of the oldest languages, and existed far longer that English has. Names like Owain, Bryn, etc have existed for ages... literally.

[BOZG]

I have Welsh family, they all pronounce it like that. And I know for sure that Ll isn't pronounced as a straight 'L' sound.

Maybe not ripped from English but Welsh is not older than Irish. Both are Celtic languages but Goidelic (comprising of Irish, Scots and Manx Gaelic) was spoken before Brythonic (Welsh, Cornish and Breton).

[praxis1966]

As to the US, I find it quite startling that there's a problem with multi-linguism. Isn't Spanish a more predominantly spoken first language in the US now?
Quite simply put, no. The influence of Spanish is growing here, but outside of the Latin American community (which comprises a little less than 10% of the population) English is overwhelmingly the most commonly spoken language.

At any rate, DaCuBan, socialism is really irrelevant to the discussion of re-unification as I see it. I firmly believe the right of a people to self-determination to be absolute whether in Belfast or Baghdad, trumping all other concerns. If you ask me (and I know you didn't :lol: ), all the settlers in both Gaza and the Six Counties should be relocated, forcibly if necessary. If Ireland should choose to enter a global workers state, it should do so of its own volition and not because London says "Do it or I'll fucking smack you."

[gaf]

i was born in the celic parts of france "bretagne". but to see your culture or way as an enemy of the state is because people see the other one as cliches,
the best example are "moslims" in europa and usa.and "western ways"in other "moslim"
countrys.but i could go on with "communists"anti ......ists,etc....etc.....etc....
aie aie aie so primitive we are...and so much pain......................