Where To Stand?

[max burke]

I am just in high school and I will be able to vote within a few years. I came to this site because I was doing a biography on Che and I was somewhat impressed. But I do wonder why there is such support for communism and a puttiung down of democracy. So, I consider myself an open-minded person and I would like it if some of the communist, democracy, whatever supporters would convince me why they feel one is better than the other. It would be nice if you all could do this in "peaceful way" so that I don't get totally extreme arguments where I can't truly believe them. Thanks.

P.S. Haha, also if someone could tell me how to do those quote boxes people do in reply to others, that would be cool.

[NovelGentry]

Errrr.... they go hand in hand.

You can't have true democracy without communism, it's a logical contradiction. So long as there are classes there always has to be one class that is more priveledged than the other, and no matter how much that one class lets the other class vote, they still have the final word and the final control.

If I did not believe that communism is democratic I would not be communist.

[Hate Is Art]

Well it's a very complicated question. There are roughly three types of democracy.

1. True Democracy.
2. Capitilist Democracy.
3. Faux Democracy.

True Democracy is Communism, although there will be no elections ala Capitilist Democracy because there will be no need for elections of this sort.

Capitilist Democracy allows no real change to occur, the economic power is still held by the capitilist and they therefore make all the descisions. We can use capitilist democracy to achieve True Democracy.

3. Faux Democracy, generally occuring in a satellite state. e.g. Poland - USSR or Viet Nam - USA. They Satellite will have it's leaders forced upon by "democracy." Elections will probably be influenced by intimidation (happened in Nazi Germany when they Hitler was trying to implement a one party state) and will most likely be rigged.

[suffianr]

Before deciding on an -ism of any sort, just make sure you check out everything else in the field. It's a big world out there.

[redstar2000]

Up above the box where you write your post, you'll see a bunch of tabs that you can click on, including "quote".

Write a post and try those tabs out to see what they do...then click on "preview post" at the bottom and it will show you what it would look like. When you've finished experimenting, just close the window and that will wipe everything you've done. (Note: some of those tabs are not enabled...so they won't do anything.)

Also, you can use the "guided mode" (on the upper left) for hints on how to do different things.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Subversive Pessimist]

In Jamaica the parties are litteraly buying votes from the population, and so they win. To say that nations like these are even indirect democracy is a mistake, a blatant lie at worst. They are giving away their "vote" because they want to have a better life, but they do not understand that the key to live in a better society is to abolish classes.

You should take a look at the election in Afghanistan just recently, when the 14 candidates withdrew, and Hamid Karzai was the only one you could vote for, or that people must vote for karzai or else your homes will be burned:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3687276.stm


This, what the imperialist yankess calls "freedom and democracy" is not the rule of the people. It is dictatorship. The governments are representatives, yes, but to who? To the ruling class. In this case, we are talking about the bourgeosie (the capitalist class). Because they are serving the minority, it cannot be called a just society, even less a democracy. As long as classes will exist, dictatorship will exist. When classes are abolished, then democracy may exist.

[monkeydust]

But I do wonder why there is such support for communism and a puttiung down of democracy.

It's a false dichotomy.

Democracy, in terms of voting for one of two or three ideologically very similar figures or groups every four or five years will go.

But democracy, as a means for decentralising power and allowing "the people" to have a say on issues that affect them, will not.

[king Royale]

It is true that most likely democracy and communism would go together. The reason that communist countries have not also been a democracy in the past is because they did not go through the natural phase of industrialization according to marxist theory. you can look at all of the communist societies that exist now and have existed as "experiments." The world was not ready for communism.

[max burke]

Hey thanks for your replies. I read in a reply to a similar topic that communism is much better than other forms of government and the person gave the example that Cuba is much more advanced than its surrounding island countires. I think this example was made in response to those that argue communism is poor and not advanced or something. Well, many could argue that capitalism is much more advanced than few countries that are communist nations. Could this be because there has yet to be a great socialist leader or what? I am birpartison here.

[Roses in the Hospital]

many could argue that capitalism is much more advanced than few countries that are communist nations.

This is generally because the surrounding Capatalist nations do everything they can to prevent Communist (or more accurately Socialist) nations like Cuba developing to any great extent by cutting off trade with them and discouraging tourism. Also, most 'Communist' countries are fairly young in their social development. In all cases they have jumped straight from pseudo-Feudalism to Socialism, whereas countries like Britain and US have had a couple of centuries of Capatalism to strengthen their economies...

[king Royale]

This is generally because the surrounding Capatalist nations do everything they can to prevent Communist (or more accurately Socialist) nations like Cuba developing to any great extent by cutting off trade with them and discouraging tourism.

I believe Cuba would be very prosperous and much more free without the various embargos put on the small island by capitalist countries.

[bushsucks1]

hey,i just made a thread about the same thing,and all of you say,well yeah,there is always gonna be a class that's more priveleged,and yes,that is a bad thing,but in the end,can we really just swop from kapitalism to communism? wiping hundreds of years of classes away? even tho' i don't agree with having these classses in the first place,it seems awfully hard to just wipe it all away,russia had done it,china is doing it,and the way i see it,ppl were not too happy about that,like,in the sovjet union,ppl had to wait in long lines just to get bread,and couldn't get fruit like oranges for example,cuz the sovjet union didn't wanna import anything,so is communism the true way to go? and plz don't get all mad,i'm just asking a question here,i would like it you just calmly explained ur view on this