Juche

[Freedom Writer]

I dont know much about the situation in north-korea, but I just wanted to ask about this ideology they have, "Juche". I have tried to be neutral on the matter, but something seems to be very wrong about this country and its ideology, please, tell me everything you know.

[Bolshevist]

http://210.145.168.243/pk/062nd_issue/98092410.htm

Hope this helps!

[Hiero]

Its rather Idealistic.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Definition of Juche (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Juche)

Juche (pronounced "Joo-cheh"), also Kimilsungism, is the official government-sponsored ideology of North Korea. The name is Korean for self-reliance. Juche is based on Marxism and the teachings of Kim Il Sung; it is often confused with Stalinism.

Juche has been promoted by the North Korean government and educational system since the term was first used in a 1955 speech by Kim Il Sung. At first, the ideology consisted of two fundamental ideas: that the proletarian revolution belonged to the people, and that the masses must be organized by a great leader. In the 1970s, Kim introduced a refined analogy: that the leader is the brain to the body of the people, and that the Korean Workers' Party is, in turn, the nervous system that communicates with the brain on behalf of the people.

From an economic standpoint, Juche also calls for North Korea to be self-sufficient in industry and services, with as little foreign aid or interference as possible, and it has been applied more strenuously since the 1960's.

Juche was first conceived at a time when the USSR and People's Republic of China were vying for influence over North Korea's internal affairs; many historians view the emergence of Juche as Kim Il Sung's way of continually reasserting the state's independence. One noteworthy demonstration of this was the Juche-influenced Chollima (later known as Taean) economic campaign of the 1960s, where the government placed the economy under the strict control of the military in an attempt to build it up independently of Soviet support.

In 1977, Juche replaced Marxism in the North Korean constitution, solidifying its position in the state's government and society.

Admirers of Kim Jong Il in many countries have formed Juche Study Groups in order to promote the idea. Opponents of Juche might suggest, however, that these groups do not critically study the concept but rather exist to grasp the truth which they believe is already present therein.

Some sociologists and other overseas scholars have likened Juche to a religious movement. They have claimed that the modern ideology indicates that adherents can achieve immortal life by shaping the immortal state and that the leader, according to Juche literature, is received in the same language in which Korean Christians would receive communion. Juche authorities state that the idea is a secular one.

[h&s]

KimilsungismWhat a name! :lol:

At first, the ideology consisted of two fundamental ideas: that the proletarian revolution belonged to the people, and that the masses must be organized by a great leader.
Two fundamental ideas that are fundamentally opposed to each other.

Juche is based on Marxism.......

In 1977, Juche replaced Marxism in the North Korean constitution, solidifying its position in the state's government and society.


Proof that it has no basis on Marxism.

In reply to the question, anything about DPRK state ideology is generally about exploiting the people, and in no way can the country ever be considered to be Marxist/Communist.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Proof that it has no basis on Marxism.


I agree on that.


In reply to the question, anything about DPRK state ideology is generally about exploiting the people, and in no way can the country ever be considered to be Marxist/Communist.

Why do you say that? In what way does Kim Jong Il exploit the people?

[h&s]

Why do you say that? In what way does Kim Jong Il exploit the people?
In what ways doesn't he? He denies them freedom of press, freedom of speach, freedom to travel, freedom to be themselves generally.
He is a leader. He rules over the people. He denies them the right to rule themselves through soviets/workers councils.
To quote Marx (which I don't really like doing, as it makes me sound like someone who takes his ideas as fact) "Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. "
Kim Jong Il deliberatly keeps hold onto that power.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 15 2004, 10:48 AM
He denies them freedom of press, freedom of speach, freedom to travel, freedom to be themselves generally.
He is a leader. He rules over the people. He denies them the right to rule themselves through soviets/workers councils.
Yes but that's all propoganda isn't it.

[Subversive Pessimist]

In what ways doesn't he? He denies them freedom of press, freedom of speach, freedom to travel, freedom to be themselves generally.

I remember reading that they actually had 20 percent of (leftist) "opposition parties" in the parliament. What is wrong with denying reactionary fucktwits the right to criticize or to spread propaganda? Do we need them spreading lies about us?

The fact remains that he does not exploit the workers in the economic sense, at least as far as I know. I do not think he lives in a giant hotel with swimming pools and with a widescreen television.



He is a leader. He rules over the people.

I'll agree with that.



To quote Marx (which I don't really like doing, as it makes me sound like someone who takes his ideas as fact) "Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. "


And what kind of class is he supressing? The bourgeoisie and it's supporters, perhaps?


If you criticize Kim Jong Il for doing this, and that is the basis for your argumnet, then you must equally have the urge for criticizing Castro for holding power for so long, right? Castro has held power for over 40 years, while Kim Jong Il has held power in North Korea for about ten years. It is interesting to notice that it is "political correct" on the left to be positive about Cuba's leadership, but equally negative on DPRK.

I do agree with you that the leadership in North Korea sure has done mistakes like all people, but to say that it's "entirely evil" I think its reactionary. Keep in mind that North Korean leadership has nationalized the country. Would you prefer a North Korea based on private property? Cuba has loosened up, and is allowing privatization of the country. North Korea doesn't.

Also, if I remember correct, they abolished the death penalty in 1994, something that Cuba hasn't. Why is it then that Cuba has received so much good words by many of us, while North Korea is being constantly criticized?

In North Korea those who are doing the most physical demanding and dangerious work are paid the highest wages.

The bourgeoisie press is much more critical of North Korea then it is of Cuba. I take it as a good sign (for DPRK).

[Guest1]

What have they done to move forward with socialism? Are there still bosses in north korea, or do workers have full control of their labour? When can we expect the elimination of wages? Are government officials paid proffessionals or are they workers representing their fellows? Why is North Korea so self-absorbed?

All I have to say is North Korea has brought all this criticism on themselves. If they opened up so people could see what was going on, then it wouldn't be as easy to accept the news we hear. The fact is, it's the only news we hear, and what little we hear is of the quality of Kim Il-Sung's obituary: "the birds of heaven descended from the skies today to take the great leader and father of the Korean people to his place in immortality, but upon seeing the enormous sadness of the people left him for us all. His tomb will be open for all to visit... blah blah". That type of shit. Of course this is off the top of my head, but it doesn't bode well for Korea.

As for Juche, it's very much nationalistic and based on idealism, rather than Marxism's internationalism and materialism.

The shit we hear may well be exaggerated, but the kind of nationalism that is being bred in North Korea will take a very long time to purge from the political landscape, that's a step back for Marxism.

[DaCuBaN]

Why is North Korea so self-absorbed?

This is conjecture you understand, but a true socialist state would be very introverted; what does it matter what's happening outside, when the focus of society is on "welfare" (if you know what I mean).

Not that I'm saying DPRK is a "true socialist" state, just making an observation...

[Guest1]

No, a true socialist state would be doing all it could to support revolutions elsewhere as well. This includes letting other workers and revolutionaries know what you are doing, so they could see what works and what doesn't work.

This hermit-syndrome North Korea has helps no one.

[DaCuBaN]

Well, they've got the KFA :P

[Fidelbrand]

"that the leader is the brain to the body of the people"

that's just great isn't it? :ph34r:

[Subversive Pessimist]

I have openly criticized DPRK myself many times, so please don't take me as a hardcore supporter of North Korea.

People are allowed to visit North Korea, and it's not true that the only thing they say is "the birds of heaven descended from the skies today to take the great leader and father of the Korean people to his place in immortality, but upon seeing the enormous sadness of the people left him for us all. His tomb will be open for all to visit...". They do actually have news there too, like all places, and God knows if there is anyone who gets physically sick about hearing preaching of leaders, it's me.

I do agree with you that it's a lot of sick preaching concerning Kim Il sung, but that does not mean that there are positive aspects about DPRK. It's one of the few countries in the world that is not capitalist, and I think that says a lot about the leadership, concerning the outside pressure. Would you rather like to see a new Korea, just like we've seen a totally new Russia, filled with poverty, missery, capitalism and prostitution? If there are going to be serious changes in the country, I believe that is what is most likely going to happen.

From Salvador Allende, posted at EG:

FM Ministry Spokesman Assails Biased Attitude of Some Forces of IAEA
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- A spokesman for the DPRK Foreign Ministry gave the following answer to a question put by KCNA Thursday as regards the improper attitude of the United States and some forces of IAEA toward the nuclear issue of south Korea: Since the disclosure of the secrete nuclear-related experiments in south Korea the world public has become evermore suspicious that south Korea has pushed forward its nuclear weapons development plan in secrecy since the 1970s and might have fully acquired the capacity to manufacture them.
Some forces of the IAEA, however, are becoming all the more undisguised in their moves to cover up the secrete nuclear experiments in south Korea as quickly as possible at any cost, deliberately playing down the gravity of those experiments.
They are working hard to assuage the importance of inspection of secret nuclear experiments in south Korea even before it came to an end, claiming that the south Korean nuclear activities were mere experiments by individual scholars and the third round of inspection slated for October is according to a regular procedure, not because the earlier two rounds of inspection proved insufficient. They do not hesitate to use the universally known legitimate nuclear activities of the DPRK as a leverage for covering up the south Korean nuclear issue, asserting that it is fundamentally different from the DPRK's nuclear issue as it does not comparison with the latter.
Even Director General of IAEA Baradei is busying himself to create impression that the settlement of the nuclear issue is delayed owing to the DPRK, blustering that the international community is losing patience as regards the DPRK over the issue of the six-party talks and now is the time for the UN Security Council to act.
The nuclear issue between the DPRK and the U.S. surfaced due to the hostile policy of the Bush administration towards the former and the six-party talks could not make any progress owing to its behavior.
The biased attitude of some forces of IAEA cannot be interpreted otherwise than an abnormal move which has nothing to do with the mission and impartiality of the UN specialized organization whose mission is to prevent nuclear proliferation.
The DPRK is not a member of NPT and withdrew from IAEA ten years ago. As the DPRK has already clarified, it has nothing to do with IAEA as an umbrella has nothing in common with fish.
This being a hard reality, some forces of IAEA are remaining hostile toward the DPRK engaged in just activities, neither knowing where they stand nor mentioning even a word about the unjust behavior of the U.S. In consequence, the issue of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula is facing a new challenge and the prospect of its settlement is becoming gloomier.
Some forces of IAEA should bear in mind the adverse impact their double standards will have on the security in Northeast Asia.
We would like to take this opportunity to state that we cannot overlook the irresponsible attitude taken by Baradei, ignoring the reality and forgetful of his duty. He expressed "serious concern" at a time when the south Korean nuclear issue cropped up, but as soon as U.S. State Secretary Powell made remarks defending south Korea he made an about-face and pointed an accusing finger at the DPRK. This goes to prove that he serves the U.S., forgetting his position of director general of IAEA.
We will continue to closely follow the results of the probe into the south Korean nuclear issue, expecting that IAEA would return to its true mission and the principle of impartiality, though belatedly.

Booklet "Glorious Workers' Party of Korea" Published in Italy
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The booklet "Glorious Workers' Party of Korea" was published by the Group of Dialectical Materialists of Italy on October 6. The booklet introduces the historical root and the guiding idea of the Workers' Party of Korea (WPK) founded by President Kim Il Sung.
It praises the immortal feats accomplished by the WPK, saying that it is an invincible party which has walked a way of victory and glory.

Special Meeting Held by Czech Party on WPK Founding Anniversary
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- A special meeting was held in Prague on October 6 by the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the Czechoslovak Communist Party on the occasion of the 59th founding anniversary of the Workers' Party of Korea. General Secretary of the party Miroslav Stepan said at the meeting that the WPK is the party founded and led for a long period by President Kim Il Sung, revered so highly by the progressives worldwide, and led by Kim Jong Il who showed a living example of boundless loyalty to the leader.
Kim Jong Il is strengthening and developing the WPK into the most revolutionary and militant party, true to the behests of Kim Il Sung, the general secretary said, and went on:
The character of the WPK is well illustrated in its slogan "We Serve the People!" The slogan "When the Party Is Determined, We Can Do Anything" upheld by the Korean working people shows the people's unquestioned trust and support to the party.
The Czechoslovak Communist Party fully supports the policy and slogans of the Korean party and the Korean party and people' efforts for the peaceful reunification of the country and a peaceful solution to the question of the Korean peninsula.
It immensely treasures and highly praises the achievements made by the Korean Party and people in the revolution and construction under difficult and arduous conditions and sharply denounces the anti-DPRK moves of the U.S. and some forces following its lead.
A congratulatory message of the Central Committee of the CCP to the Central Committee of the WPK was adopted at the meeting.

Passage of Amendment to Labor Law through NA Opposed
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The Democratic Workers' Party of south Korea on Oct. 10 held a press conference in front of the National Assembly building and opposed the passage of the government's bill on the amendment of the labor law through the National Assembly, according to south Korean MBC. The press conference was addressed by Representative of the Party Kim Hye Gyong and assemblyman Tan Pyong Ho.
Noting that the bill tendered by the government and the ruling party fully represented only the demands of the business giants, they said if the law were retrogressively revised, the workers would in the long run be reduced to part-time employees.
As the plan of the government cannot solve the problem of part-time work, they will muster all forces available to thwart the passage of the amendment bill through the NA, they added.

End to U.S. and S. Korean Authorities' Moves for War Demanded
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The South Headquarters of the National Alliance for the Country's Reunification reportedly made public a statement titled "Dangerous war moves of war-like U.S. and pro-U.S. flunkeyist forces, should be stopped" on Oct. 9. The U.S. recently introduced a squadron of F-15E fighter-bombers into south Korea and deployed Aegis destroyers in the East Sea of Korea and is going to introduce PAC-3 into Kwangju of south Korea. This frantic arms buildup is driving the situation on the Korean peninsula into the brink of a war, the statement noted, and continued:
Keeping pace with this, the south Korean authorities decided to increase the military spending for the next year about 10 percent over this year and have frantically stepped up the massive development and production of war means while going ahead with the massive introduction of latest combat equipment including U.S.-made F-15Ks and PAC-3 missiles.
It is an urgent task to drive the U.S. forces out of south Korea at present. It is necessary to drive the U.S. forces out of south Korea and frustrate the south Korea-U.S. alliance aimed at cooperation for war and aggression through national cooperation.

S. Korean Authorities' "Emergency Plan" under Fire
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The Central Committee of the National Democratic Front of south Korea (NDFSK) made public a statement on Oct. 12 in connection with the recent disclosure of the so-called "emergency plan to cope with the suddenly changed situation" in the north in the course of inspection of the administration at the 17th National Assembly session of south Korea, according to Kuguk Jonson Internet site. The statement said: The present authorities have amended and supplemented this plan called "Chungmu 3300" and "Chungmu 9000" worked out in the period of the "civilian" fascist regime though the south and the north are going in for reconciliation and unity after the publication of the June 15 joint declaration. This is a grave case which should not be overlooked.
The NDFSK terms the sinister move of the present authorities a serious case quite contrary to the historic June 15 joint declaration and an extremely grave provocation to the north, the dialogue partner, and sternly condemns this in the name of all Koreans aspiring after the national reconciliation and unity and the reunification of the country.
Recalling that the Ministry of Unification worked out the plan and has pushed forward it though it has a mission to look after the inter-Korean reconciliation and cooperation, the statement noted that the present deadlock in the inter-Korean relations is mainly attributable to the fact that the present authorities have foolishly sought the "collapse of the north" and deliberately thrown double or treble hurdles in the way of improving the inter-Korean relations as evidenced by their refusal to permit the Pyongyang visit of a delegation to pay homage to President Kim Il Sung.
The authorities should give up their pipedream, fully open the "plan" to the world, make an apology to the whole nation, cancel it and commit themselves to implement the joint declaration to the letter.
The NDFSK will never tolerate the moves of the U.S. and the pro-U.S. anti-reunification forces for confrontation but mercilessly frustrate them and continue waging a vigorous struggle to bring earlier national reunification by the concerted efforts of the nation under the uplifted banner of our nation-first spirit.

Struggle for Abolition of SL Unabated in S. Korea
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The People's Solidarity for the Abolition of the Security Law reportedly held a meeting demanding the total abolition of the Security Law (SL) in front of the Sejong Cultural Center on Oct. 9. Accusing the Grand National Party (GNP) of going against the era of independence and reunification by conducting an offensive of political coloring in the course of inspecting the administration these days, the statement, made public at the meeting, warned that if the GNP does not meet the demand for the abolition of this evil law, it will be thrown into a grave by history. A "national writers' meeting for the abolition of the SL and free thinking and expression" was held in Seoul under the sponsorship of the National Literary Writers' Council on the same day. The meeting heard the recitation of poems critical of the reactionary nature and viciousness of the law and urging its abolition.
Meanwhile, the National Federation of Peasants Associations held a "press conference of peasants who fell victim to the SL" in front of the National Assembly building on Oct. 7 at which it declared that the peasants would take the lead in the struggle for the complete repeal of the SL.

U.S. Urged to Restore Destroyed Groundwork of Six-Party Talks
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- If the United States has a willingness to seek a peaceful solution to the nuclear issue, though belatedly, it should stop applying double standards over the nuclear issue, drop its hostile policy toward the DPRK and rebuild the groundwork of the six-party talks destroyed by itself, urges Rodong Sinmun Thursday in a signed commentary. The news analyst goes on:
The U.S. is working hard to put pressure on the DPRK at the United Nations, prompted by its conception of unilateralism and superpower policy. This will only push the situation to a very dangerous phase.
Recently, senior officials of the U.S. vied with each other in making much ado in a bid to shift the blame for the delayed next round of the six-party talks on to the DPRK and pressurize it to come out to the negotiating table.
The Bush administration opted to scuttle talks from the very day it took office, totally ignoring the DPRK-U.S. agreements made in the days of its preceding administration. The Bush bellicose group did not regard the DPRK as its dialogue partner, to begin with, by defining it as part of an "axis of evil" and a target of its preemptive nuclear attack. The construction of light water reactors (LWR) which the U.S. had promised to provide to the DPRK ended in its groundwork and the U.S. unilaterally suspended the supply of heavy fuel oil to the DPRK, the only commitment which Washington had implemented under the DPRK-U.S. Agreed Framework, thus scrapping the AF in the long run.
It is none other than the U.S. which destroyed the groundwork of the six-party talks laid with much effort.
The U.S. side unwillingly came out to the talks from the contradictory stand that "contacts are possible but negotiations are impossible" and declared that it would not have any negotiations with the DPRK.
The U.S. unilaterally backpedaled the agreements and promises already made at the talks. At the third round of the six-party talks all the participating sides unanimously agreed on the principle of "words for words", "action for action" and "reward for freeze". But no sooner had the talks closed than the U.S. officially clarified once again its political stand that there would be no reward for north Korea's nuclear freeze.
Not content with slinging mud at the DPRK, the U.S. went the lengths of letting loose a string of malignant vituperation against the supreme headquarters of the DPRK. It even adopted an act called "North Korean Human Rights Act" in a bid to spend a huge amount of fund for its anti-DPRK sabotage operation out of its government budget.
The U.S. seems to order the DPRK to kneel down before it and respond to a "dialogue" while sitting in a chair. It is a gross miscalculation and a pipedream to calculate that this American way of thinking will work on the DPRK.

Scanning Tunnel Microscope Invented in DPRK
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- DPRK scientists and technicians invented a scanning tunnel microscope of world level. The microscope (STM) made by a research team of the Faculty of Physics and the Institute of Electronic Materials of Kim Il Sung University consists of a needle scanning device, a device for precise transfer of sample, a vibration proof device, computer-control system and others. It is an ultra-modern nano-measuring instrument capable of examining the distribution of atoms and molecules in the space of 1 to 50nm.
The invention of the microscope has made a breakthrough towards the study of NANO technology, one of the core basic technologies for the scientific and technological development in the 21st century, and the development of products based on NANO technology.
Prof. and Dr. Kim Il Gwang, Associate Prof. and Master of Science Ju Tok Yong, Master of Science Han Ran Ok and other teachers and researchers deepened the study of scientific documents and pooled creative wisdom and energies to solve a lot of scientific and technological problems including scanning needle of atom-level and a device for sensing microscopic tunnel electric current of nA level though they were hard pressed for everything.
On the basis of this success, they succeeded in manufacturing in a short span of time this microscope the kind of which is known to be produced in a few countries only.
The production of STM has helped lay a strong material and technological foundation for exploring a new area of ultra-modern science and technology and placing the educational work and scientific researches on a higher stage.

Standardization Work Active in DPRK
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- Great efforts are being directed to the standardization work for raising the quality of goods in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea on the occasion of the World Standards Day which falls on October 14. The government calls on all sectors and units of the national economy to fully meet the demand of standardization and encourages the officials in the field of quality control to have a strong sense of responsibility, fully play their role and improve their business qualifications so as to combine science and technology closely with production and ensure economic profits.
Mass media and educational institutions give people a correct understanding of the standardization work through enlightenment activities.
The DPRK joined the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) on June 22, Juche 52 (1963).
It has strengthened relations with the ISO and the IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) and received various standards and data from them.
Besides, it has concluded agreements on cooperation in the field of standardization with different countries including China and Russia and invigorated exchange in this field.
The ISO and IEC have rendered much assistance to the DPRK in the work of standardization.

U.S. Moves for Reduction of Its Forces in S. Korea under Fire
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The Central Committee of the Democratic Front for the Reunification of the Fatherland bitterly denounced in the name of all the Korean nation the moves of the U.S. and the south Korean authorities for "reduction" of the U.S. troops as a deception and mockery of public opinion at home and abroad and a criminal war provocation scheme to drive all the fellow countrymen into the holocaust of another war. A spokesman for the front said this in a statement on Oct. 13 as regards the U.S. announcement on Oct. 6 that it would extend the period of cutback of its forces in south Korea for three years.
The U.S. arms cut move, as in the past, is no more than a farce to reinforce its aggression forces in the Korean peninsula and step up preparations for a war against the north, the statement said, and continued:
It is a serious mistake that if the U.S. thinks it may calm down the anti-U.S. sentiment growing in south Korea and extend domination and military occupation with the deceptive arms cut farce.
The south Korean authorities should discontinue their flunkeyist and treacherous action following the U.S. arms buildup under the pretext of "reduction" of the U.S. forces.
Availing of this opportunity, we express the belief that governments, political parties, organizations and peoples of all countries which love justice and peace will extend positive support to the Korean people in their just struggle to force the U.S. imperialist aggression forces out of south Korea and achieve independent and peaceful reunification of the country, it stressed.

U.S. Racket over DPRK's "Missile Threat" under Fire
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- Some U.S. influential figures claimed that its satellite information confirmed north Korea's possible missile fire. In its wake they kicked up much fuss, misinterpreting and dramatizing the situation as something very serious. In this regard, Minju Joson Thursday says in a signed commentary: As for the U.S. "concern" about the missile issue it is a matter pertaining to the sovereign right of the DPRK which has been recognized and legalized internationally.
The commentary goes on: It is a common practice for each country to produce, test and deploy missiles as a means for self-defence and it is, therefore, not contradictory to international law.
The U.S. is, however, so cunning as to cite the DPRK's principled and just self-defensive policy concerning the missile issue as a pretext for pursuing its hostile policy towards the latter.
The U.S. is hyping up the fictitious threat of the DPRK's missiles in a bid to build up public opinion critical of it. Through this it is seeking to invent a legitimate pretext to justify the U.S. forces' forward-deployment targeted against the Korean peninsula and create conditions favorable for carrying out its anti-peace criminal policy to stifle the DPRK by force of arms.
The DPRK's self-defensive armed forces serve as a dependable means for foiling the U.S. hostile policy towards the former and protecting the sovereignty and dignity of the country and the nation.
The U.S. cooked up the fiction of "north Korea's missile threat" and is working hard to convince the international community of it and thus deprive the DPRK of the right and powerful means to defend itself.
Now that the U.S. mean and sinister intention to do harm to the DPRK has been brought to light, it is well aware of what it should do.

GNP's Attempt to Keep SL Assailed
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The Grand National Party and other right-wing conservatives of south Korea are now making frantic efforts to maintain the "Security Law"(SL), going against the trend of the times. This is prompted by their foolish and sinister intention to stem the current of the times towards national reconciliation, cooperation and independent reunification at any cost and stoke confrontation between the north and the south and revive the fascist dictatorship in a bid to prolong their remaining days. Rodong Sinmun Thursday says this in a signed commentary.
It goes on:
Ours is the era of independent reunification in which the north and the south work together for reconciliation, cooperation and reunification according to the June 15 joint declaration.
The desire of the Koreans to achieve national unity and independent reunification in the idea of "By our nation itself" after accepting it is growing stronger with each passing day.
It is a natural development that the demand for the abrogation of the SL is mounting in south Korea and, accordingly, it has become the most pending issue of the political camp.
The SL is the worst law as it defines the DPRK as an "anti-state organization" and the fellow countrymen in the north as an "enemy", opposes national unity and reunification and denies human rights. Its repeal is the demand of history and times and justice and any challenge to it is a foolish act of precipitating self-destruction.
The mind-set of the south Korean public at large is for the repeal of the SL and the world community, too, calls for it as the SL, a leftover of the era of division and dictatorship, betrays the nation and represses human rights.
The history and the nation have already passed a death sentence on the GNP as well as the SL. The GNP challenging the times and the nation by trying to keep the fascist SL in force is bound to be thrown into a dumping ground of history.

DRPK Beats Yemen in Soccer Match
Pyongyang, October 14 (KCNA) -- The second soccer match of the second-stage Asian regional preliminary round for the 18th World Cup took place between the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and Yemen at Yanggakdo Football Stadium in Pyongyang on Wednesday. The match, which started at 3:30 pm., was watched by a large number of soccer fans in the city.
The DPRK boys beat their Yemeni counterpart 2:1 at the match.
At the first match, held in Sana, the capital of Yemen, on February 18, the two teams tied 1:1.


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If you think that North Korea is a giant concentration camp where they gas the working class to death I might suggest that you take a look at these videos:

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtop...t=13249&start=0 (http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13249&start=0)

[Freedom Writer]

Thank you! Great debate here. I also find north-korea disturbing in someways. My friend visited n-korea few months ago and he said that "its like a jail." And then he told me something about the ways people get treated there and so on and my friend is also leftist. So I dont know, I dont like the ways of Juche and all that "DEAR LEADER" nonsense.

[Fidelbrand]

One of my historical replies on DPRK:

As regards to torturing, it is pretty much of a debate. Some organisations have interviewed those who have successfully fled from DPRK and revealed that torturing is existent. I saw on TV a woman whose legs was damaged pemanently while she was in jail, guards kept hitting her from behind her legs while she was laboring, which made her unable to dance (she was a dancer). She fled to S.Korea and started teaching N.Korea culture and dance culture as she is still patriotic, but, hoping for some brighter advancements in her home country and for the unification of the 2 koreas.

"Return to the DPRK, they return with food" ------> that's the crux of the problem. A socialist / communist country unable to uphold its egalitarian perspective (one of the biggest merits of any socialist/communist regimes) and not able to physiologically support its people, but having its citizens to bring food back home? Isn't that bit of a bizzare tragedy? It is alleged that the country is advancing its military capacities in full speed, whether the answer is yes or no, and of course I know that serious femine has struck this nation, but..... the fact is that this country is simply not working up to standards. I therefore agree to il commie's title of this thread that DPRK is "The Bad Boy of The Communist Movment".

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...c=23788&hl=dprk (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23788&hl=dprk)

[Bolshevist]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 15 2004, 08:48 AM
In what ways doesn't he? He denies them freedom of press, freedom of speach, freedom to travel, freedom to be themselves generally.
He is a leader. He rules over the people. He denies them the right to rule themselves through soviets/workers councils.
To quote Marx (which I don't really like doing, as it makes me sound like someone who takes his ideas as fact) "Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. "
Kim Jong Il deliberatly keeps hold onto that power.
You do know that Kim does only have authorithy over the military? That means he cannot do the things you are listing, because he is not a dictator, he is a elect supreme commander of the military. :rolleyes:

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 06:20 PM
You do know that Kim does only have authorithy over the military? That means he cannot do the things you are listing, because he is not a dictator, he is a elect supreme commander of the military. :rolleyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bolshevist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 10:59 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
prove me wrong then :angry:

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 07:20 PM
prove me wrong then :angry:
Even in the case of Fidel, I don't think he is only the president, first secretary and that's it. So far , the "alleged" communist countries we have in history and present, are powerful burreaucracies in which the person in charge has "invisible" says in regards to the workings of the country , and how the country is to be runned, to his will. Up till now, only the humble Hu Jintao has limit his own power with an effective democratic centralism, which both scholars from the academia, overseas and in mianland China, prove effective and genuine.

He is elected, yes he is. But take into a/c of his fathers' dazzling respect (or maybe fear) gain from the parties officals in the first incidence.

Info extracted from wiki:

By the time of the Sixth Party Congress in October 1980, Kim Jong-il's control of the Party operation was complete. He was given senior posts in the Politburo, the Military Commission and the party Secretariat. When he was made a member of the Seventh Supreme People's Assembly in February 1982, it had become clear to international observers that he was the heir apparent to succeed his father as the supreme leader of the DPRK.

At this time Kim assumed the title "Dear Leader" and the government began building a personality cult around him patterned after that of his father, the "Great Leader." Kim Jong-il was regularly hailed by the media as the "peerless leader" and "the great successor to the revolutionary cause." He emerged as the most powerful figure behind his father in the DPRK.

In 1991, Kim was also named supreme commander of the North Korean armed forces. Since the Army is the real foundation of power in the North Korea, this was a vital step. It appears that the veteran Defense Minister, Oh Jin-wu, one of Kim Il-sung's most loyal subordinates, engineered Kim Jong-il's acceptance by the Army as the next leader of the North Korea, despite his lack of military service. The only other possible leadership candidate, Prime Minister Kim Il (no relation), was removed from his posts in 1976. In 1992, Kim Il-sung publicly stated that his son was in charge of all internal affairs in North Korea........

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kim-Jong-Il

I see a fullblown family business running in NK....... :o

Relatives
Many of Kim Il Sung's relatives occupy important posts in the
Party and the government. In the 12-member politburo, aside from
himself and his son, there are brothers-in-law Park Sung Chol and
until recently the late Foreign Minister Ho Dam, as well as
cousin Kang Sung San

http://www.pitt.edu/~ctnst3/ronbun.html

Nothing about dictatorship , but some funny info. can be found at "Personal" in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong_Il

Also...

While his famine-starved people eat tree bark to ease their hunger, he dines on steak and cognac in the company of the "pleasure squad" -- a variety pack of imported blondes and Asian beauties.

Don't know about his "pleasure squadhttp://www.che-lives.com/forum/style_images/1/icon12.gif" .... but his inability in dealing with the famine but preposterous ambition in building the nuclear program shows that he is a bad boy of communism. North Korean refugees have illegally crossed the border to China to escape famine conditions which have existed in North Korea since 1995. As many as 800,000 have crossed into China in search of food. Eating - physiological right to subsistence, the most basic thing, the most stressed ideal of any socialist/communist country, can't even be dealt under the leadership of the "DEAR PERRLESS LEADER", take that~ :ph34r:

[Fidelbrand]

Words from Kim 's chef . (http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20030709-115039-4157r.htm)

[Valkyrie]

I agree with you, cym, they are very hermetically sealed over there. You really have to do a lot of searching to find out what's actually going on over there. No doubt due to the Korean war and suspicions they have of the west. The New York Times had an extensive article about Kim's policies that i posted awhile back. If I can find it, I'll link it. From what I remember they are extremely bureaucratic to the point where you can't take a shit without getting a number and having paperwork done thereafter, if you know what i mean. Nothing we would want to integrate into a system.

[h&s]

If you criticize Kim Jong Il for doing this, and that is the basis for your argumnet, then you must equally have the urge for criticizing Castro for holding power for so long, right?
I do. Just because I am on a Che site does not mean that I like Castro. I may have supported him in the past, and I still do admire him, but I do think he is a complete wanker. He never proclaimed to be communist, and he has shown that he is not communist.


Yes but that's all propoganda isn't it.
Come on TAT, you don't seriously think that there is anything good about the regime of North Korea that the propaganda fails to tell us of?


You do know that Kim does only have authorithy over the military? That means he cannot do the things you are listing, because he is not a dictator, he is a elect supreme commander of the military.
Does that even make a difference? Someone is still in charge of that country exploiting the people.

[Fidelbrand]

I do. Just because I am on a Che site does not mean that I like Castro. I may have supported him in the past, and I still do admire him, but I do think he is a complete wanker. He never proclaimed to be communist, and he has shown that he is not communist.

ye, i like him less than before, but how can you admire him if he is a complete "wanker"?
However, he proclaimed himself (once) as he a Marxist-Lennist though.
Having the case put comparatively, Cuba is just miles off the FLorida Straits and it is in much stress and strain in terms of politics , and economics (embargo.)
But the fucking dear leader of DPRK is building nukes at the expense of his subjects.

[h&s]

I admire the way he stands up to the USA, but in my opinion, anyone who is a leader is a wanker by default. I mean you have to be to stay clutching on to power 45 years after a revolution.
He may have claimed to be a communist, but wasn't that during the time Cuba was claiming to be communist to gain support from the USSR? I've heard that before the revolution he even claimed he was completly opposed to communism and everything it stood for.

[Fidelbrand]

Personally, I have no problems with a good leader staying as long as he can , given that he is genuinely concerned with his people. For Fidel, i think he did an averagely better than most leaders.
Not sure about that, but Che and him did discuss a lot about Marxism and he declared that he is advocating a system of "Well planned economy with emphasis in social justice" at the very nascent of the revolution.

Anyway, I respect your opinion. ^__^