Trotkyism And Stalinism

[redtrigger]

I've read what I could find on these different philosophies on communism, but it seems that on this site anytime anyone tries to have an intalligent debate between the two sides all that happens in a lot of trash talking. As I said before, I've done research but i want ot know first hand from a Trotskyist and a Stalinist what each philosophy is all about. Lets be grown up and keep this clean, I'm not trying to start a fight just trying to see how they differ.

To keep this unbiased, I am not going to give my personal ideology, but I fit in neither one of these categories

[redtrigger]

I've read what I could find on these different philosophies on communism, but it seems that on this site anytime anyone tries to have an intalligent debate between the two sides all that happens in a lot of trash talking. As I said before, I've done research but i want ot know first hand from a Trotskyist and a Stalinist what each philosophy is all about. Lets be grown up and keep this clean, I'm not trying to start a fight just trying to see how they differ.

To keep this unbiased, I am not going to give my personal ideology, but I fit in neither one of these categories

[redtrigger]

I've read what I could find on these different philosophies on communism, but it seems that on this site anytime anyone tries to have an intalligent debate between the two sides all that happens in a lot of trash talking. As I said before, I've done research but i want ot know first hand from a Trotskyist and a Stalinist what each philosophy is all about. Lets be grown up and keep this clean, I'm not trying to start a fight just trying to see how they differ.

To keep this unbiased, I am not going to give my personal ideology, but I fit in neither one of these categories

[ComradeRed]

Both sides call their idealogy an "advancement" of leninism(which was an "advancement" of marxism), which is debatable. But Stalinists claim that there is no difference between Leninism and Stalinism(scary) and that it was a "trot invention" to "seperate" the working class from the "leninist/stalinists". Although, both sides make attempts to appeal to peasentry(which is ironically reactionary), there is nothing else they share. Trots want a world revolution and Stals want socialism in one state, trots want democracy stals want dictatorship, and so on and so forth.

I'm neither but this is what each of them say about themselves.

[ComradeRed]

Both sides call their idealogy an "advancement" of leninism(which was an "advancement" of marxism), which is debatable. But Stalinists claim that there is no difference between Leninism and Stalinism(scary) and that it was a "trot invention" to "seperate" the working class from the "leninist/stalinists". Although, both sides make attempts to appeal to peasentry(which is ironically reactionary), there is nothing else they share. Trots want a world revolution and Stals want socialism in one state, trots want democracy stals want dictatorship, and so on and so forth.

I'm neither but this is what each of them say about themselves.

[ComradeRed]

Both sides call their idealogy an "advancement" of leninism(which was an "advancement" of marxism), which is debatable. But Stalinists claim that there is no difference between Leninism and Stalinism(scary) and that it was a "trot invention" to "seperate" the working class from the "leninist/stalinists". Although, both sides make attempts to appeal to peasentry(which is ironically reactionary), there is nothing else they share. Trots want a world revolution and Stals want socialism in one state, trots want democracy stals want dictatorship, and so on and so forth.

I'm neither but this is what each of them say about themselves.

[NovelGentry]

I've already tried getting some information from a Stalinist on here, doesn't seem to work out too well. However, I was referencd this: http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/book.html -- by someone who claims to be a Stalinist (even though I'm quite sure he's very lost on basic communist principles)... But my understanding is that it was written by a Stalinist and it goes over a lot of what he did, so you'll get least that side of Stalin from a Stalinist. As for Trotsky, well the majority of stuff out there is anti-Stalin, which apparently makes it pro-trotsky (at least in some peoples' eyes). But I would suggest reading anything in the marxists.org archive from Trotsky himself. You'll probably notice a lot of fundamental differences in ideas, however, from what I understand after Trotsky was expelled (and possibly after he was murdered but it may have been before), Stalin undertook a very similar plan of his of massive industrialization which he used to criticize Trotsky for. Once again, this is just what I understand from what I know, not sure if that's exactly the case yet. I myself still have to read that link, aswell as more stuff from Trotsky.

[NovelGentry]

I've already tried getting some information from a Stalinist on here, doesn't seem to work out too well. However, I was referencd this: http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/book.html -- by someone who claims to be a Stalinist (even though I'm quite sure he's very lost on basic communist principles)... But my understanding is that it was written by a Stalinist and it goes over a lot of what he did, so you'll get least that side of Stalin from a Stalinist. As for Trotsky, well the majority of stuff out there is anti-Stalin, which apparently makes it pro-trotsky (at least in some peoples' eyes). But I would suggest reading anything in the marxists.org archive from Trotsky himself. You'll probably notice a lot of fundamental differences in ideas, however, from what I understand after Trotsky was expelled (and possibly after he was murdered but it may have been before), Stalin undertook a very similar plan of his of massive industrialization which he used to criticize Trotsky for. Once again, this is just what I understand from what I know, not sure if that's exactly the case yet. I myself still have to read that link, aswell as more stuff from Trotsky.

[NovelGentry]

I've already tried getting some information from a Stalinist on here, doesn't seem to work out too well. However, I was referencd this: http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/book.html -- by someone who claims to be a Stalinist (even though I'm quite sure he's very lost on basic communist principles)... But my understanding is that it was written by a Stalinist and it goes over a lot of what he did, so you'll get least that side of Stalin from a Stalinist. As for Trotsky, well the majority of stuff out there is anti-Stalin, which apparently makes it pro-trotsky (at least in some peoples' eyes). But I would suggest reading anything in the marxists.org archive from Trotsky himself. You'll probably notice a lot of fundamental differences in ideas, however, from what I understand after Trotsky was expelled (and possibly after he was murdered but it may have been before), Stalin undertook a very similar plan of his of massive industrialization which he used to criticize Trotsky for. Once again, this is just what I understand from what I know, not sure if that's exactly the case yet. I myself still have to read that link, aswell as more stuff from Trotsky.

[SonofRage]

Stalinism and Bolshevism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1937/1937-sta.htm) Trotsky's side of the story

Bolshevism and Stalinism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1947/bolshevism-stalinism.htm) a Left Communist viewpoint by Paul Mattick

[SonofRage]

Stalinism and Bolshevism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1937/1937-sta.htm) Trotsky's side of the story

Bolshevism and Stalinism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1947/bolshevism-stalinism.htm) a Left Communist viewpoint by Paul Mattick

[SonofRage]

Stalinism and Bolshevism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1937/1937-sta.htm) Trotsky's side of the story

Bolshevism and Stalinism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1947/bolshevism-stalinism.htm) a Left Communist viewpoint by Paul Mattick

[T_SP]

Hello all! Okay, I am one of the few Trots on this board I will try and answer you I just don't have time right now but I'm just letting you all know I'm aware of this thread and will hopefully get back to it.
One thing to remeber is that it was one of Stalins agents, ordered by Stalin himself, that killed Leon Trotsky.
Chioa for now.

[T_SP]

Hello all! Okay, I am one of the few Trots on this board I will try and answer you I just don't have time right now but I'm just letting you all know I'm aware of this thread and will hopefully get back to it.
One thing to remeber is that it was one of Stalins agents, ordered by Stalin himself, that killed Leon Trotsky.
Chioa for now.

[T_SP]

Hello all! Okay, I am one of the few Trots on this board I will try and answer you I just don't have time right now but I'm just letting you all know I'm aware of this thread and will hopefully get back to it.
One thing to remeber is that it was one of Stalins agents, ordered by Stalin himself, that killed Leon Trotsky.
Chioa for now.

[Hiero]

I sense already this is leading into debate. How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.

[Hiero]

I sense already this is leading into debate. How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.

[Hiero]

I sense already this is leading into debate. How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.

[redtrigger]

How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.


:D Hooray this is what I want, just the basics of each ideology. However a clean debate might be entertaining as long as no one gets nasty and stays mature about things.

Now play nice children

[redtrigger]

How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.


:D Hooray this is what I want, just the basics of each ideology. However a clean debate might be entertaining as long as no one gets nasty and stays mature about things.

Now play nice children

[redtrigger]

How about a Trot just lay down the basics and a Stalinist lay down the basics.


:D Hooray this is what I want, just the basics of each ideology. However a clean debate might be entertaining as long as no one gets nasty and stays mature about things.

Now play nice children

[T_SP]

A very good link: Rough outline of Trotskyism plus extra readings (http://www.marxist.net/trotsky/russia/index.html)

[T_SP]

A very good link: Rough outline of Trotskyism plus extra readings (http://www.marxist.net/trotsky/russia/index.html)

[T_SP]

A very good link: Rough outline of Trotskyism plus extra readings (http://www.marxist.net/trotsky/russia/index.html)

[Louis Pio]

Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)

[Louis Pio]

Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)

[Louis Pio]

Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected]Sep 28 2004, 07:23 PM
Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)
:lol:



Here is the only valiod description of "classical Stalinism". (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 07:23 PM
Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)
:lol:



Here is the only valiod description of "classical Stalinism". (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 07:23 PM
Well it's a big subject.
The way I view it is basically that Stalinism was born out of the views the bueacracy needed to adapt to keep themselves in power. Like their dealings with Hitler, abandoning socialist revolution in Spain, abandoning the greek communists after ww2, killing the comintern etc. This also had an effect on the other communist parties since they followed the directives from Moscow.
Stalinism today? Well apart from the different impotent "m/l" sects, we can see that most of the leadership of the existing communist parties (I mean those with a massbase) has adopted a reformist outlook.

If you want a explanation of "trotskyism" (bolshevism) then I would suggest you to go directly to the man himself and look through his works. Trotsky Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/index.htm) Since there is quite a few groups with each their definition of Trotskyism.

I would suggest these 2 books on the subject of the eternal Stalinism vs. Trotskyism debate.

Lenin and Trotsky - what they really stood for (http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/)

Russia: from Revolution to Counter-Revolution (http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/)
:lol:



Here is the only valiod description of "classical Stalinism". (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/)

[Louis Pio]

Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.

[Louis Pio]

Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.

[Louis Pio]

Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:31 PM
Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.
Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

I'm sorry son but you cannot be helped.

Four more glossies and you'll get the coveted prize!

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:31 PM
Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.
Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

I'm sorry son but you cannot be helped.

Four more glossies and you'll get the coveted prize!

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:31 PM
Ahh don't try to protray your revisionism as what was envisioned by Marx or even Lenin.

And for once you could try to explain your position. If you have one besides being a grumpy old man that is.
Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

I'm sorry son but you cannot be helped.

Four more glossies and you'll get the coveted prize!

[Louis Pio]

As I expected your to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views you on the other hand is utterly incapeable of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.

[Louis Pio]

As I expected your to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views you on the other hand is utterly incapeable of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.

[Louis Pio]

As I expected your to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views you on the other hand is utterly incapeable of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:52 PM
As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing (sic) breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views (sic)you on the other hand is utterly incapeable (sic) of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were (sic) you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. (sic) Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time (sic) I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.
I hear top prize is a gold lamay jacket embroidered with a fine likeness of Trot.


Thankyaveramuch.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:52 PM
As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing (sic) breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views (sic)you on the other hand is utterly incapeable (sic) of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were (sic) you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. (sic) Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time (sic) I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.
I hear top prize is a gold lamay jacket embroidered with a fine likeness of Trot.


Thankyaveramuch.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:52 PM
As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your kind is a dieing (sic) breed.
At least the old stalinists would try to defend their views (sic)you on the other hand is utterly incapeable (sic) of that. The only thing I have seen you do is to defend the moscow trials in OI were (sic) you basically said the old guard was counterrevolutionary. (sic) Considering the vast amount of menshevics and carrerists in the top of the party at that time (sic) I think it's pretty clear who's the revisionist here.
I hear top prize is a gold lamay jacket embroidered with a fine likeness of Trot.


Thankyaveramuch.

[Louis Pio]

One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.

[Louis Pio]

One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.

[Louis Pio]

One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 09:27 PM
One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.
:lol:

Thank's Mr. Ed, your opinion is noted.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 09:27 PM
One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.
:lol:

Thank's Mr. Ed, your opinion is noted.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 09:27 PM
One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.

Now RAF stop spamming. It's a bit pathetic for a mod to start spamming the new to all forum.
:lol:

Thank's Mr. Ed, your opinion is noted.

[Louis Pio]

:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.

[Louis Pio]

:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.

[Louis Pio]

:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 10:08 PM
:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.
Good idea! Let's talk about insults a bit. It's seems common for the "leftists" here to wine about "how I've insulted them" only after starting the insults themselves.

Look kid, if you did not want the "mean old Stalinist" to retaliate then why did you post this:


As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your (sic) kind is a dieing (sic) breed.


and this:


One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.


Many folks on this board have attempted (many times) to paint me as the "instigator" of insults when all I have done was return the favour.

Remember how well it worked out for them? Do you think the people here are so completely daft that they will ignore WRITTEN FACT in order to slag the evil Stalinist?

Get real son. This absurd charade is not fooling ANYONE any longer.

When are you cats going to learn? This is too much like watching puppet theatre. :lol:

Stay away from those planes "Mr. T".

P.S.

In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

I don't take his words as GOSPEL, and NEITHER SHOULD YOU, sonny.

Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 10:08 PM
:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.
Good idea! Let's talk about insults a bit. It's seems common for the "leftists" here to wine about "how I've insulted them" only after starting the insults themselves.

Look kid, if you did not want the "mean old Stalinist" to retaliate then why did you post this:


As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your (sic) kind is a dieing (sic) breed.


and this:


One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.


Many folks on this board have attempted (many times) to paint me as the "instigator" of insults when all I have done was return the favour.

Remember how well it worked out for them? Do you think the people here are so completely daft that they will ignore WRITTEN FACT in order to slag the evil Stalinist?

Get real son. This absurd charade is not fooling ANYONE any longer.

When are you cats going to learn? This is too much like watching puppet theatre. :lol:

Stay away from those planes "Mr. T".

P.S.

In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

I don't take his words as GOSPEL, and NEITHER SHOULD YOU, sonny.

Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 10:08 PM
:rolleyes:

Consider this RAF. What future line will be taken will be decided by discussions and by revolutionaries being able to connect with the big mass of people. Not by who can throw around the most insults. As Lenin said "patiently explain", you are quite incapeable of that. Most people feel repulsed by your attitude and that's not really helping anyone. I would love to see you act that way at one of my unionmeetings. The members need a good laugh considering the present situation. None of them would however take a arrogant wornout guy shouting insults serious. Now gently crawl back to the cave were you have been hiding the last 50 years.

Btw it's Mr T not Mr ED.
Good idea! Let's talk about insults a bit. It's seems common for the "leftists" here to wine about "how I've insulted them" only after starting the insults themselves.

Look kid, if you did not want the "mean old Stalinist" to retaliate then why did you post this:


As I expected your (sic) to stupid to reply.
Luckily your (sic) kind is a dieing (sic) breed.


and this:


One starts to wonder when you got that lobotomy.

A grown up acting like a kid is not something you see very often, but it's always a sad case.


Many folks on this board have attempted (many times) to paint me as the "instigator" of insults when all I have done was return the favour.

Remember how well it worked out for them? Do you think the people here are so completely daft that they will ignore WRITTEN FACT in order to slag the evil Stalinist?

Get real son. This absurd charade is not fooling ANYONE any longer.

When are you cats going to learn? This is too much like watching puppet theatre. :lol:

Stay away from those planes "Mr. T".

P.S.

In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

I don't take his words as GOSPEL, and NEITHER SHOULD YOU, sonny.

Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

[Louis Pio]

Dear little hurt RAF what did you expect?
You answer a post just by an icon, not very serious well? Especially from a guy with a university degree. As most of you other posts it's just useless, I mean using icons and saying liar in every sentence is just pathetic. Don't post if you don't have anything to say, or is spamming allowed for you?


In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

:rolleyes:
Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist. Just like Marx is still a good read. Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men. Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?, why did we see capitalist restoration? etc. All points you always skip. Theory is among others summed up experience which is why it is so usefull.


Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.

But as you said yourself your not really interested in discussions:

Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

[Louis Pio]

Dear little hurt RAF what did you expect?
You answer a post just by an icon, not very serious well? Especially from a guy with a university degree. As most of you other posts it's just useless, I mean using icons and saying liar in every sentence is just pathetic. Don't post if you don't have anything to say, or is spamming allowed for you?


In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

:rolleyes:
Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist. Just like Marx is still a good read. Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men. Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?, why did we see capitalist restoration? etc. All points you always skip. Theory is among others summed up experience which is why it is so usefull.


Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.

But as you said yourself your not really interested in discussions:

Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

[Louis Pio]

Dear little hurt RAF what did you expect?
You answer a post just by an icon, not very serious well? Especially from a guy with a university degree. As most of you other posts it's just useless, I mean using icons and saying liar in every sentence is just pathetic. Don't post if you don't have anything to say, or is spamming allowed for you?


In case you have forgotten, I DON'T CARE what Lenin said, I for one do not hang on the words of an individual who has been amusing kids who gush over "the mummy" for nearly a century.

:rolleyes:
Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist. Just like Marx is still a good read. Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men. Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?, why did we see capitalist restoration? etc. All points you always skip. Theory is among others summed up experience which is why it is so usefull.


Communism is about the PEOPLE, not about THE MUMMY.

Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.

But as you said yourself your not really interested in discussions:

Why bother to explain anything to an individual that subscribes to bourgeois revisionism of history?

Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


All points you always skip

No, you just were not around when they were covered, many times over, by me and a thousand others. Archives can be fun if you play nice.


Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.



If you have failed to grasp the meaning then perhaps communism is not for you.


Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

Perhaps some sweeties will cheer you up.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


All points you always skip

No, you just were not around when they were covered, many times over, by me and a thousand others. Archives can be fun if you play nice.


Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.



If you have failed to grasp the meaning then perhaps communism is not for you.


Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

Perhaps some sweeties will cheer you up.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


Haha Well RAF the thing is Lenin's works still hold water and should be a good base for anyone claiming to be marxist

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.


Of course your communism is quite far away from theirs which is why you probably choose to just write em off as dead men

:lol:

Of course it is dear.


Now the later communist parties had quite a different view than you on this matter, which was why they tried to portray there ideas as being in accordance with Lenin. We can learn alot from past experiences, what happened in Russia?,

Those damn dirty apes can be quite a handful when they escape.


All points you always skip

No, you just were not around when they were covered, many times over, by me and a thousand others. Archives can be fun if you play nice.


Now what is this worthless statement supposed to mean? Of course communism is about people. It's about taking human society to the next level. If you really belived communism was about people you wouldn't be so insulting, it seems to me you think communism is about RAF making witty comments and playing king on a discussionboard.



If you have failed to grasp the meaning then perhaps communism is not for you.


Get a grip RAF, it's truely pathetic.

Perhaps some sweeties will cheer you up.

[Hiero]

Wow a fight broke out in a Trotskyist and Stalinist thread.

[Hiero]

Wow a fight broke out in a Trotskyist and Stalinist thread.

[Hiero]

Wow a fight broke out in a Trotskyist and Stalinist thread.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

A great many people's works "still hold water" to some degree. Most theories, Marxism included, contain obsolete and useless material that must be adjusted to fir the modern era.

Anyone that does not recognise this is a fool.

Could you explain what exactly about Marxist and Leninist theory is obsolete and how Stalinism is more relevant today?

What adjustment to Marxism does Stalinism make?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 02:35 PM

Could you explain what exactly about Marxist and Leninist theory is obsolete and how Stalinism is more relevant today?

What adjustment to Marxism does Stalinism make?
"Stalinism" is simply Marxism and is therefore classified in my previous statement.

I find it odd that you would not be able to recognise that a complete revolutionary theory that is over a century old will have "issues" when re-applied to the modern struggle.

Our most specific example of course is the LTV.

[Hate Is Art]

Trotskism embodies the main theories of Lenin whilst also encompassing the theories of Permanent Revolution and many others.

I would hesitate to call Stalinism even an ideology, to do that would be to recognise it as a train of followable to any one who doesn't have character defects like severe paranoia and is grossly incapable of running a country by any other means then bullying. I can dig up my stats on the lies about Stalin again if you want.

Stalin killed Trotsky, his family and his friends. Stalin isn't worthy of anyone respect for anything, he destroyed the revolution and betrayed us all. His socialism in one country policies pretty much made the sucess of Communism doomed to anything but sucess.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

LTV

Latin Television? :unsure: :lol:
Why is it so hard to spell out labor theory of value. I was confused there for a minute.

Oh, I can recognize that Marxism is obsolete. I was just wondering how your ideas differ from it.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by The Arcadian [email protected] 30 2004, 04:57 PM
he destroyed the revolution and betrayed us all.
You mean the russians.

[Hate Is Art]

us as is Poles, he fucked up my country.