Green Party [Archive]

commiecrusader

12th September 2004, 11:35

i dont know that much about them, but from what i do, i would have to suggest that the UK branch at least (i dunno if theres others?), suck ass.

they claim to be a 'multi-faceted' party, but actually all they really seem to care bout is the environment and animals, which, whilst important, cannot be the sole focus of any political party. they seem pretty 1 dimensional, plus they will never gain power because most people see them as hippies lol

Free Spirit

12th September 2004, 12:03

Sorry if my question might sound stupid but what does The Green part actually stand for? It sounds like a gathering for people that would or fight for the nature, "ecological wisdom" people's democracy, peace/non-violence? Social Justice, or? ;)

roddes

12th September 2004, 12:34

i think the green party standes for something like animal rights and more use of reusable energy, and what i can see from them there quit refromist

commiecrusader

12th September 2004, 12:42

i dont know a lot but this is how the majority of UK voters would perceive them i would suggest.

up until the last set of UK local elections, they were really a single-issue party, concerned only with protecting the environment, cutting down on pollution etc.

in the last election, they tried to become a multi-issue party talking the same old crap about improving hospitals schools etc. i dont pay any attention to them.

wet blanket

12th September 2004, 12:42

The green party are a more eco-friendly and socially conscious version of the democrats.

They're very reformist and have no plans on getting rid of capitalism. Regardless of how many times Cobb refers to corporate wrongdoings, things would not be different if he was president.

Their hearts are in the right place, but they don't quite 'get it' when it comes to the class conflict..

Socialsmo o Muerte

12th September 2004, 16:02

commiecrusader, I would suggest you learn about the Green Party before dismissing them as "suck ass", "1 dimensional" and only bothered about "environment and animals".

Especially after The Green Party's campaigning during the recent MEP and local council elections, how could you still fall for that old chesnut?

The Green Party are focused on improving on the environment and animal rights. Yes. Of course, as many world leaders will admit, the problem of global warming is a more major problem than terrorism in the world today. It is the biggest threat to life on this earth. The Green Party realise this more than any other, which is why they highlight it so.

But they do have political policy. They are quite humanist; seeking the abolition of all parties with a racist agenda i.e. they join the masses in their campaign to abolish the BNP. They also want to invest heavily in communities, loacal small business and in people, opposing the increasing running of Europe in favour of multinational companies.

Although they won't fully support the abolition of public and private schools, they do state that these schools, and all independant schools, must prove their worth. If they are proven not to have a worth to society, they will seek abolition. They are pushing the cause of de-privatising the rail companies. If you have ever bothered to read anything about the Green Party before using the old generalisation that they are all about trees, you will know that they are heavily critical of the Blair government for continuing the Thatcherite tax policies of the 80's and the Greens policy is to fix the tax situation and ensure the public's money is spent where it is meant to be spent; NHS, education, transport and security.

The Green Party are also vehement opponents to globalisation and belive that it, along with the mass privatisation of the world, will reek havoc on societies the world over. On the whole, Greens are Euro-skeptics and also seek Fair Trade the world over.

If there is anything else you want to know, then please ask. But do not fall for the oldest political myth; The Green Party climb trees and don't eat anything living. I am not aa Green voter, but did vote for them in the recent elections with no other alternative. They should not be dismissed by the likes of you.

YKTMX

12th September 2004, 17:14

Most enviromentalism is a middle class pursuit and this is true for the "Green" parties.

The Green Party in the UK is good on certain issues, notably a worthy opposition to the war and GM food.

Sadly, their petty bourgeios liberalism predictably lacks any kind of class analysis of society or of enviromental destruction.

Social inequality and enviromental destructions are products of either misfortune; the "nastiness" of a particular leader or of insufficient "demcratic accountability".

Their hearts are probably in the right place but this basic flaw stops them from offering any real solutions or major alternatives.

h&s

12th September 2004, 19:19

Really the Green Party is such a waste of time. Sure they want to sort out the problems in the world, but they just want to attack the symptoms, like pollution, third world debt, starvation, etc, they are not prepared to attack the cause. The cause of all of these problems is blatantly capitalism, and the current un-democratic system, but they seem perfectly happy to keep this.
(Sorry this is just a 'vote communist' rant, but hey, thats what I think of the Greens - just a bunch of middle-class hippies who think they have a conscience.)

Rasta Sapian

12th September 2004, 19:53

i researched the green party of Canada befor the election to see if i could find out more about them.

At first they appeared to have a good platform, emphisizing on the environment but when i looked further i was rather disturbed, to find out that its origins are in Alberta (oil country) and when i looked at there monetary policy i noticed major tax cuts on the horizen, so ya they suck ass for us lefty's anyway!

p.s. the green should really stand for money, not the environment!

person

12th September 2004, 22:38

I don't think the Greens are really about the money. They don't accept any special interest money from corporations and another one of their priorities is big corporations as well as more peaceful solutions to problems.

I don't know I was just wondering what you guys thought about this party because I think it's still a better alternative

refuse_resist

13th September 2004, 01:02

The American Green Party is lame. They are basically just a toned down version of the democrats and are very pro-capitalist. The party supports capitalism in smaller economic entities insted of giant corporations. Ralph Nader himself once said "The trouble with corporate capitalism in the United States is that there is a lot of capital but very few capitalists."

apathy maybe

13th September 2004, 03:38

Greens are about the enivornment yes. But they are also about other things. The Four Pillars are
1. Ecology (sometimes "Ecological Wisdom")
2. Social Justice
3. Grassroots Democracy
4. Non-Violence

While not always anti-cappitalist (!) most Greens are opposed to the extremes. This are shown by the idea of workers rights. It fits under 2.

In most cases Green Parties are for working with-in the system, that is they are reformitsts. But many of those that support the Greens are also radicals.

Many people do not support the idea of environment per say, but support Green parties because they have become the only voice of the mild left. Because parties such as Labor and Labour have become mass parties and moved away from their traditional socialist values.

(this is now public domain, please use ideas to edit the Wikipedia articles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_green_parties
)

pedro san pedro

13th September 2004, 06:17

sounds like a bit of tall poppy syndrome on the board - people dont seem to know what the greens stand for, but dislike them because they have a fair whack of support.

and people wonder why the left is so split :huh:

anyone who gets some support and starts achieving change is immediately labelled as "petty bourgeios liberals" by people sitting in the armchairs :angry:

Black Dagger

13th September 2004, 07:15

Originally posted by Apathy [email protected] 13 2004, 03:41 AM
I would encourage people who can vote to vote for which ever radical leftist party is running (and then any other radical leftists) and then the Greens.
Anarchists support parliamentary democracy now?

anyone who gets some support and starts achieving change is immediately labelled as "petty bourgeios liberals" by people sitting in the armchairs

Who's achieving 'change'? People sitting in their 'armchairs'... and the 'greens' are revolutionaries?

refuse_resist

13th September 2004, 09:31

Originally posted by pedro san [email protected] 13 2004, 06:17 AM
anyone who gets some support and starts achieving change is immediately labelled as "petty bourgeios liberals" by people sitting in the armchairs :angry:
That's because they are petty-bourgeois liberals. :lol:

socialistfuture

13th September 2004, 10:16

there was a time when communism didnt have much or anything to say about enviromentalism. i think the green movement is great - yeah it is not going to lead a revolution - greens come in all sorts of ideologies and sides of the spectrum.

generally they are left wing but not always. here in Aotearoa the greens spoke out against GE and against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. One greens MP has spoken at out the SW branch I am in (he is an ex member of the communist party).

When there was a march for maori rights (the foreshore and seabed) - 20,000 marched in Parliament and the greens were on parliament with a banner of support.

Still they are stuck supporting the labour governement. There were big marches here for our moritorium on GE to be held but the Labour Government didnt listen to the people and removed it.

Also we have a marijuanah legalization celebrety here (Nandor) a dreadlocked rastafarian who is a Greens party member of parliament. Yeah they are not going to change the nature of this society but here in many ways they are involved in grassroots activities and people support them.

I believe we must puch for as much as we can in parliament and when people see how limited it is and we are pushed to it that when action starts happening. We must be ready for that moment - thats what socialist groups are all about.

While at the same time as pushing through reforms by the parliamentary road we must be pushing the state to the limit with civil disobediance - protests and activist activities of all forms.

Some prefer to stick to the law - other dont believe in it - There is no one way to get to a better - more free society - we must use many methods. Greens parties are a way of getting people informed and involved in leftie and enviromental politics. Many people do not like words like communist and anarchist - but will take part in anti war and anti GE protests - that is a way to get them introduced to what we are on about.

By getting small victories we inspire people - it is a roll on effect - and face it man things are not going to get easier and prettier - With leaders like Bush and Neo-liberalism being rammed down our throats - Resistance and Action is NEEDED and will contine to be needed.

h&s

13th September 2004, 15:15

Does no-one else think that voting for the Greens, or any other spineless bunch of hippies, is counter-productive to the leftist cause?
Voting Green is just a compromise of values. You may think that voting green is good becuase they will do some quite good stuff, but they will also do some bad stuff, like not banning capitalism, and keeping the current system. This can lead to voting for other parties that have some good ideas, compromising your idealsfurther, and next thing you know it, you'll be voting 'Labour'.
Either vote for the radical, revolutionary left, or don't vote at all! (well spoil your paper - they count that as an objection to the system ;) )

Black Dagger

13th September 2004, 17:17

Either vote for the radical, revolutionary left, or don't vote at all! (well spoil your paper - they count that as an objection to the system

I'm glad you put the emphasis on 'dont vote at all', im not quite sure how you can have a 'revolutionary left' party which runs in elections, what are they gonna do if they win? abolish the parliament?

http://panafrican.tv/audio/H. Rap Brown and Kwame Ture - Free Huey Rally on Hueys Birthday.mp3

http://panafrican.tv/audio/ChairmanFredHam...amilAl-Amin.mp3 (http://panafrican.tv/audio/ChairmanFredHamptonJrInterviewImamJamilAl-Amin.mp3)

commiecrusader

13th September 2004, 22:06

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 12 2004, 05:02 PM
commiecrusader, I would suggest you learn about the Green Party before dismissing them as "suck ass", "1 dimensional" and only bothered about "environment and animals".
uuh i never pretended to know all about the Green Party. i stated this at the beginning of the post and then said that is how i reckon most UK voters perceive them. but all your points about them still dont really endear them to me. they are still committed to working well within a capitalist system, and like i said and you all but agreed, up until the last round of elections, they pretty much only campaigned on environmental policies. i also said this had changed in the last EU and Council elections, but prior to that certainly to the average joe, they campaigned in a pretty environmentally focused way.

Person:

I don't know I was just wondering what you guys thought about this party because I think it's still a better alternative

i would say the best political party to vote for in the UK is RESPECT. they are currently the biggest socialist party, and whilst not extremely radical, are the best we've got at the moment.... although they didnt win any seats in anything in the MEPs election or Council elections... grr

person

13th September 2004, 22:14

It's all progress though isn't it? If it's still able to better feed and help out the poor, etc in the mean time before the revolution what's wrong with that, really?

h&s

16th September 2004, 09:37

"In the mean time before the revolution"
?!?
And when will this revolution happen then?
Am I missing something?
Have we got a date set?
14th August 2021?
The revolution will only come if we make it.
By compromising your beliefs you are just postponing it, and strangling it before it is even born.

Kez

16th September 2004, 09:44

"i would say the best political party to vote for in the UK is RESPECT. they are currently the biggest socialist party, and whilst not extremely radical, are the best we've got at the moment.... although they didnt win any seats in anything in the MEPs election or Council elections... grr"

Is this proof that workers dont turn to these sects?

Anyway, H&S you are correct in what you say, in that we have to work FOR a revolution, not simply wait around voting for a least horrible capitalism politician.

socialistfuture

16th September 2004, 13:23

well its rather obvious we are not going to vote away capitalism - if we dont vote or vote for a socialist party we may have minimal effect on who is in. if there is a battle between labour or conservatives (repubicrats and demitrons) or any other version of the same thing - and u have more than two-party system (co-alitions) surely it is best to vote for a party that is on the left - the greens being one option.

regardless of who is voted in we have work to do. the greens will not obolish capitalism and i dont think any other electoral party will. at least if there is greens in there is discussion on the enviroment and things like GE. some greens are activists - so we can work with them. also if there are socialists/anarchists/marxists/lefties.. u get the picture in the greens party they may be swayed in that direction.

u can talk about revolution as much as u like but the reality is a lot of people are not intrested no matter what you say to them - therefore we need to work on the ground - campaign for change - fight for change - lots of different grassroots activites and groups getting people politically minded and achieving victories that show we can make changes.

in my country non of the socialist groups get elected apart from one that was called the Alliance - they were a split from labour and slowly turned back to the centre right (neoliberal - sellout...etc) direction. the party split when some of them supported the war in afghanistan. the party after the righties left declared it was socialist and is small now and most likely wont run in these elections.

so i cant vote for a socialist group most likely - so i am stuck with labour (not on my life will i vote for them) the greens or the newly formed maori party.

of course for those overseas it is different - electorial politics are limited - the capitalist democracy will not allow socialists to be elected in.

revoevo

22nd September 2004, 00:04

IPF Q&A with Green Party USA Presidential candidate David Cobb (http://s7.invisionfree.com/I_P_F/index.php?showtopic=525)

A great opportunity for anyone with questions about the Green Party or Cobb's campaign.

apathy maybe

23rd September 2004, 03:32

Voting is a simple act, you walk into a polling place, you put the most far left party first, you walk out. But it sends a message to the politicians that you care. While I don't like the Greens for (one reason) not wanting to abolish capitalism, I still think that voting for them (after voting for the other leftists) is sending a message to the cappies.

As it only comes a few times every few years, you can spend the rest of that time organising protests, stockpiling guns, etc. Voting doesn't compromise you beliefs, even if you have to pick the best of a bad lot.

apathy maybe

23rd September 2004, 04:00

Why would an Anarchist support voting in parliamentary elections? 'Cause you can't use just one way to get to utopia. In the short term the Greens (and other leftist parties) can influence things, while in the long term we can take control ourselves. The Greens are generally for democracy, and thus would support multi-member proportional representation, this would mean more minorities getting elected, and as we are a minority, maybe us. Politicians have a greater access to the media then 'normal' people this means that they can use it to educate people or at least to get across a point of view (though it may be distorted).

I also support the forming of co-ops and similar.

commiecrusader

23rd September 2004, 21:49

I think whilst the system is how it is, we may as well vote as far left as we can. Its an expression everyone can see of how an alternative way exists, and will at least demonstrate that left-wing support exists. It can't do any harm to vote, as long as we stay true to our goals, it will increase awareness of left-wing ideals.

Gidoot

23rd September 2004, 21:50

www.sp.nl The best in the netherlands!

h&s

24th September 2004, 06:37

They're just a bunch of hippies...
I know it may sound like stereotyping, but the Green stronghold area I know is full of ex-hippies who own at least 20 cats each.

h&s

24th September 2004, 06:37

They're just a bunch of hippies...
I know it may sound like stereotyping, but the Green stronghold area I know is full of ex-hippies who own at least 20 cats each.

h&s

24th September 2004, 06:37

They're just a bunch of hippies...
I know it may sound like stereotyping, but the Green stronghold area I know is full of ex-hippies who own at least 20 cats each.

cubist

24th September 2004, 10:25

i hate the green party, would never vote for such a bunch of radical hypocrites

cubist

24th September 2004, 10:25

i hate the green party, would never vote for such a bunch of radical hypocrites

cubist

24th September 2004, 10:25

i hate the green party, would never vote for such a bunch of radical hypocrites

Xvall

24th September 2004, 21:29

I like the Green Party. They have similar beliefs to mine, though theirs tend to be less extreme. By far, though, the American Green Party is a much better party, in my opinion, than the Republican or Democratic Party. As much as they might be 'Social Democrats', it's easier to pass socialistic and communistic laws in a country run by 'Social Democrats' than it is to pass them in a country run by Halliburton.

Xvall

24th September 2004, 21:29

Xvall

24th September 2004, 21:29

max burke

29th September 2004, 04:13

Hammer&sickleforever, what is with all of the hostility towards a peaceful group of people such as the greens? Humans in general are becoming hateful towards each other and rather than discussing issues thoughtfully (as many on this site do) many believe we must degrade each other with unintelligent comments such as "spineless people".

max burke

29th September 2004, 04:13

max burke

29th September 2004, 04:13

squirrel87

1st October 2004, 00:01

I really like the Green Party, but I HATE Ralph Nader (the American Green Candidate), because he helped Bush steal the 2000 election from Gore, and in 2004, the GOP is supposedly funding him in an attempt to try and steal votes from Kerry by using Nader.

insurgency03

5th October 2004, 02:56

they've got the best chance so far of any of the ;eft-leaning parties in amerika right now so if i could vote id vote for them.

h&s

5th October 2004, 15:40

Left leaning maybe, but leftist no. Why should we support a party that only represents a very tiny part of what we want? Its just selling out, and I hate it.

Lossenelin

6th October 2004, 03:58

I'll probably be giving my party vote to the Green Party of Aotearoa next election, the way I see it there are 3 main leftist parties in New Zealand, The Green Party, The Alliance, and the Anti-Capitalist Alliance (which I'm a member off) there are other socialist parties, but I haven't seen them run in any elections.

The Anti-Capitalist Alliance is still pretty new, and currently only has about 200 members (500 are needed to be on the ballot for party votes) The Alliance, priviously the 3rd largest party in the country, now also has less than 500 members after a big split and various internal conflicts which saw members leaving.

The ACA will be working to sign up another 300 (hopefully even more) members between now and the election, and if they get on the party vote ballot, of course I'll be voting for them, but if they don't, I'll be voting Green.

socailistfuture, who was the former CP Green that spoke to Socialist Worker? I know MP Sue Bradford is a former member of the Communist Workers Leauge (which I don't think exists anymore) she was also the leader of the Unemployed Workers Movement during the neo-liberal reforms, its Green Members like her that make me sure a green-vote won't be a complete waste.

h&s

6th October 2004, 16:01

Originally posted by max [email protected] 29 2004, 03:13 AM
Hammer&sickleforever, what is with all of the hostility towards a peaceful group of people such as the greens? Humans in general are becoming hateful towards each other and rather than discussing issues thoughtfully (as many on this site do) many believe we must degrade each other with unintelligent comments such as "spineless people".
I don't hate the Greens at all, infact you'll be very hard pressed to find a group of people (other than conservatives and Nazis of course) that I do hate. Hate is such a waste of an emotion.
I dislike the Green's policies, not the people. As I have already said, the Greens stand for an 'ethical' form of capitalism - not any form of leftism - so why should I support them? Any form of capitalism, whatever the intention, will always lead to the exploitation of the working class. It will always lead to massive differentials in wealth, quality of life and standard of living. As this is what the Greens represent, they are no better than any other group of reactionaries hijacking a good cause.

BTW, I only used the word spineless because I just love that word!

Xvall

6th October 2004, 22:30

I really like the Green Party, but I HATE Ralph Nader (the American Green Candidate), because he helped Bush steal the 2000 election from Gore,

Utter nonsense. Ralph Nader did not help Bush steal anything. Katherine Harris decided to go out and steal the election all on her own by blacklisting eligible voters and ruling that people shouldn't vote because of crimes they've commited in the year 2017. It's not as though we can trust the Democrats to live up to the needs of the working class in the first place.

and in 2004, the GOP is supposedly funding him in an attempt to try and steal votes from Kerry by using Nader.

I didn't know that we were basing our likes and dislikes on the actions by republicans. What if the GOP started funding socialist parties and communist parties in hopes that they would 'steal' (I didn't know that voting for someone you don't like is stealing) democratic votes? Would we hate those parties if they did that?

squirrel87

6th October 2004, 22:35

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 6 2004, 09:30 PM

Utter nonsense. Ralph Nader did not help Bush steal anything. Katherine Harris decided to go out and steal the election all on her own by blacklisting eligible voters and ruling that people shouldn't vote because of crimes they've commited in the year 2017. It's not as though we can trust the Democrats to live up to the needs of the working class in the first place.

I didn't know that we were basing our likes and dislikes on the actions by republicans. What if the GOP started funding socialist parties and communist parties in hopes that they would 'steal' (I didn't know that voting for someone you don't like is stealing) democratic votes? Would we hate those parties if they did that?
so, then, do you want to vote for kerry and get kerry elected, or do you want to vote for nader and get bush elected again?

Xvall

7th October 2004, 00:22

First of all, you're assuming that everyone who votes for Nader was going to origionally vote for the Democratic candidate. That is entirely untrue. Statistically, 50% of the people who voted for Nader didn't plan on voting in the first place. That is to say that if Nader was not on the ballot, they wouldn't have voted in the first place. The other 50% were fairly evenly divided among the other parties running. Not everyone who supports the Green Party believes in the platform of the Democratic Party.

Second, it is important for people to vote on the basis of which candidate they believe in. When you vote for the lesser of two evils, not only are you helping fuel the notion of a two-party only state, but you are telling the lesser of two evils that his policies don't matter, because regardless of what he believes in, we're going to vote for him anyways.

I am a Socialist. I like Kerry better than Bush, but as far as I am conscerned, he hasn't proven himself to be that much difference when it comes to policies. He is basing more and more of his beliefs on the requirements put fourth by the companies and corporations endorsing him, and not on the needs of the working class. He hasn't stated an exit plan for Iraq. He insists that he is going to continue the war until "we win". The only thing that makes him more viable than Bush is his understanding of the English language.

Rockfan

10th October 2004, 05:27

The new zealand green party won enough votes to get some seats at our last election. I think there a good party to have in parlament because the enviroment dose need taking care of and they remind some of the other people there about the enviroment and beening a keen outdoorsmen I respect that but they will never win an election which is quite logical.

apathy maybe

10th October 2004, 05:38

First past the post is bad for exactly the reason Drake Dracoli said. You either vote for a candidate you like (or dislike the least) or you vote for the lesser of two evils.
If we have to have elections (and I think that direct democracy or random selection would be better) then make it multi-member proportional (instant run off) representation. This is not an option in presidential elections, but presidents are a bad idea anyway.